12" JBL speaker $29 on black friday at Bestbuy - Page 78 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2311 of 2494 Old 07-17-2019, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prozach1576 View Post
What do you guys think is the max of these I could run with an iNuke NU3000? I've got four currently, but I'm itching for more.
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Originally Posted by prozach1576 View Post
I guess I could probably figure this out on my own by drawing it out, but why 9 instead of 8?
I'm running nine off one channel with no problem (do you have some form of DSP?).
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...fer-array.html
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post #2312 of 2494 Old 07-17-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I'm running nine off one channel with no problem (do you have some form of DSP?).
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...fer-array.html
Michael
In that case, is a 6k overkill? Am I better off with a 3k?

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post #2313 of 2494 Old 07-17-2019, 02:53 PM
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Define "overkill."

You can't have "too much" power. The only disadvantage of the 6000 is that it won't handle 2 ohms; the 3000 can.
If it's a choice between DSP and power (ie, 3000DSP or 6000), then the DSP version, absolutely.
If you can have your cake and eat it too, then the 6000DSP, or whatever the new model is called.
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post #2314 of 2494 Old 07-17-2019, 05:56 PM
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Like Michael already said, there's no such thing as "too much power". You can always lower the gain/volume. You always have a need for more power (you just may not realize it yet).

I opt for nu/nx 3k with DSP over 6k, as they are 2 ohm stable. Either way, unless you have additional nodes in your chain already such as a miniDSP, you need the DSP version.

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post #2315 of 2494 Old 07-17-2019, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
Like Michael already said, there's no such thing as "too much power". You can always lower the gain/volume. You always have a need for more power (you just may not realize it yet).



I opt for nu/nx 3k with DSP over 6k, as they are 2 ohm stable. Either way, unless you have additional nodes in your chain already such as a miniDSP, you need the DSP version.
I have a miniDSP4x2HD. It seems I'm better off getting the 6k for flexibility down the road.

Also, store pickup on 4 of them tonight. The other 5 are enroute from a BBY distribution center.



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post #2316 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 07:47 AM
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For those that had yours shipped, what kind of shape did they arrive in? Mine looked like someone had some anger management issues. Do you think it is fine so long as the cone was protected (that part has a protective styrofoam that is in tact)?
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post #2317 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 08:06 AM
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I had two sets of four shipped. The first set was in an unmarked brown box and in perfect condition. The second set was in original packaging with tears and holes all over the boxes. They are probably ok since most of the box is just empty space, but I swapped out my damaged ones since I wasn’t sure how long it would be before I was able to test them.
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post #2318 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 08:15 AM
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Mine showed up with a ridiculous amount of packing. About half filled the recycle bin with the 4 that just showed up. Must have been sent after someone got yelled at for kicking your guys' JBL's around.
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post #2319 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 10:20 AM
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Mine showed up individually boxed in original packaging. Some nicks and scuffs but I think they will be fine, but still need to double check.
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post #2320 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 11:32 AM
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My small order of two has been delayed for an unspecified reason.

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post #2321 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 12:40 PM
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Price rebound.

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post #2322 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Buy three more (see "magic square").
Unless Chris has them all, already.

Michael

Hmm... I just might do that. Will pick a few more up on the next sale. I still need to build boxes for 2 more SI 24s and paint the boxes. It'll be a while before I get around to the 12s with some other projects I have going on too. But that would be good for the 20k clone. At 4 ohm it should be pushing a little over 2000w rms, so over 200w per driver if I ran 9 of the JBLs off it.

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post #2323 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post
Mine showed up with a ridiculous amount of packing. About half filled the recycle bin with the 4 that just showed up. Must have been sent after someone got yelled at for kicking your guys' JBL's around.
Glad we could help

But, they know not to get you mad, Chris. They want to see you get into triple digits.

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They are probably ok since most of the box is just empty space, but I swapped out my damaged ones since I wasn’t sure how long it would be before I was able to test them.
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Some nicks and scuffs but I think they will be fine, but still need to double check.
Sorry to hear this isn't isolated. I'm thinking I'll have to exchange some of mine as well. I attached an image to show what they left on our door -- not even a box, just an address slapped on.
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post #2324 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 02:19 PM
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Wow that's lame! Just the same I'd fire 'er up and give her some beans free air. Save yourself the hassle if you can. A light poly cone might be fine even with the box damage.
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post #2325 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 05:14 PM
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Yeah that’s exactly how my second set arrived. The important parts of the driver are protected pretty well by the styrofoam. The boxes are getting damaged on the back side of the driver since there is nothing solid to push against, but the driver is probably fine. I would still test it ASAP or swap it out to be sure.
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post #2326 of 2494 Old 07-18-2019, 05:55 PM
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I got nine perfectly nice boxes direct from Harman (refurbs) and one was still DOA.
Pays to check under any circumstances.
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post #2327 of 2494 Old 07-19-2019, 06:58 PM
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My other five came tonight. None of them were near that bad, although two boxes did have a little corner damage. The way they packaged and shipped was questionable at best however (please forgive the fearsome beast).

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post #2328 of 2494 Old 07-19-2019, 09:43 PM
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Found my UMIK mic and had some time so I started doing some tweaking...... my graph looks good but I need to let things settle a bit before I determine if tonight was a total success.  I feel like I'm missing some of what I had earlier this evening. Here is what I did in case someone notices something obviously wrong.
  • I turned off XT32, set the Crossover for my bass in my Denon to 250 and took measurements.
  • I tweaked the distance in the MiniDSP between my subs until it looked the best I could get it.
  • I used REW to calculate filters which I applied to my MiniDSP.
  • Then I went and ran XT32, but each of my subs are on a separate sub channel.
  • Once XT32 was done I took measurements again and they appeared improved.
  • At that point I added my boost and took my last set of measurements for the night.
  • ​​​​​​​I've attached the REW Filters I used (mainly bringing down the top end) on the initial configuration, as well as the final REW graphs.

Here are the REW Filters I applied. It was mainly cutting the top end so I didnt have to massively boost the low end......


Here is where I ended up after it was all done.

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post #2329 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 06:55 AM
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As you know, REW graphs should be at 5dB intervals. That said, I think that looks very nice.
Try moving the shelf to 20Hz and keep an eye on the distortion graph.
Then check your xo with the center channel on.
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post #2330 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 08:32 AM
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So I decided to redo everything again last night. Thankfully since I save all my REW graphs I used the original Average to generate a new filter file and went from there.

I was a little bit more generous in the REW flatness target and boost section and I think it paid off.

These measurements have no smoothing applied

Here is the new filter file.



Here is the result of the new average post XT32 v the prior one.



The same average v the prior average WITH BOOST.



This is all three. As you can see its a fair compromise between them all.




Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
As you know, REW graphs should be at 5dB intervals. That said, I think that looks very nice.
Try moving the shelf to 20Hz and keep an eye on the distortion graph.
Then check your xo with the center channel on.
Michael
I didnt know that actually, or I forgot, it was a long night. I actually removed the shelf entirely and am leaving it with the results I have above.

I also have no center channel so I can't test with that lol..... Right now I'm just L/R & subs hehehe...

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post #2331 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 08:57 AM
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Then you do the xo with l/r; it's important to check the transition from your subs to your mains.
Flat to 15Hz is very nice.
I'd still add the shelf.
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post #2332 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Then you do the xo with l/r; it's important to check the transition from your subs to your mains.
Flat to 15Hz is very nice.
I'd still add the shelf.
Michael
Yeah, I'm still not sure if I did things in the right sequence so I'm doing some reading.....

Folks seem to be suggesting that I do things in this order.

1. Time align the subs in the MiniDSP best you can
2. Set MiniDSP to MONO
3. Run XT32 with just measuring one sub
4. Remeasure & apply filters/boost in MiniDSP

I did not do it in this sequence, so if I have to redo that I will think about it.

As I did it now (filters prior to XT32), it makes redoing the MiniDSP stuff (except boost) a much larger pain since I then need to redo the XT32 measurements too.....

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post #2333 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 09:09 AM
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Before you do anything else, just run a full range sweep and see how it looks. Unless there's a problem at the xo, leave it alone.

You can go crazy with sweeps (graphitis nervosa) - ask me how I know - or you can start enjoying your system.
I suggest the latter.
Michael

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post #2334 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 09:31 AM
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Well, now you've done it and made another poor soul fall into the rabbit hole. I'm just starting to build up my living room system (upgrading my early 1990's equipment) but have been following this and many other diy audio threads here at AVS. I just grabbed 10 of these drivers on sale even though it will be awhile before I can implement them properly. Thanks guys

A couple quick questions

1) For a quick and dirty test box.....make something about 1.5cf - 1.8cf ? I just want to insure that they are not doa's
2) I have a Dennon X4400h (my first upgrade in years) but no sub amp....for testing purpose can I just use my old receiver, ie. go sub out from Dennon to aux in on old receiver and then speaker wire to the driver terminals? It shouldn't be more than 100 watts max....this should let me know drivers are ok?

Thanks again guys.....living room rabbit hole begins

PS. Planning on DIYSG 1299's in tower configuration atm
Pss. I really like the Devastator design but there's no way I'm getting that approved by the significant other...so more in smaller package spaced out is the way I (think?) I can get what I want
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post #2335 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 10:52 AM
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An old receiver is fine, as long as it's rated for 4 ohms, even if it isn't it's probably still fine since they're an easy 4 ohm load.

Any box is fine, long term IMO 1.5 cuft is about as small as I like, but just to verify not doa, I'd just play them free-air, get some decent excursion, and call it good. I haven't even tested most of mine, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

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post #2336 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
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I'd just play them free-air, get some decent excursion, and call it good.

Chris
Thanks @Chris Popovich , I ended up doing just that and can move on. All are ready for some learning and planning
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post #2337 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 06:37 PM
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Hey I'm trying to decide on an amp but I have a quick question. Would I be able to wire 16 of these subs to get a 4ohm load? I was thinking of running them off one channel of an NU6000dsp. If I have to wire them in 2ohms I'll get an NU3000dsp instead and maybe use both channels.
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post #2338 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doodoobutter View Post
Hey I'm trying to decide on an amp but I have a quick question. Would I be able to wire 16 of these subs to get a 4ohm load? I was thinking of running them off one channel of an NU6000dsp. If I have to wire them in 2ohms I'll get an NU3000dsp instead and maybe use both channels.
You can get a 4 ohm load that way (series two pair , then parallel each grouping of 4, then series each group of 8)

4+4/4+4/4+4/4+4 per set would yield 2 ohms and then you would run both in series for 4 ohms 2+2=4 (16 total drivers) yield real world 125w/driver (@2k real world channel power)

but you would be better off getting two more and running 9 off of each channel making two magic squares. It's also highly dependent on cab size. If you're running 1-1.5 cu/ft per driver you'll need more power per driver (depending on room size) than what a single channel of the 6k can deliver, real world. The larger you go in cab size the better if running off a single channel.

Math:
Magic square is 9 is series/parallel yield would be 222w/driver both channels driven

I'm about to run 9 in the magic square configuration from one channel of a 6k using the prefab boxes that come in at 1.1-1.2 cu/ft per driver. It's a give and take. More cab space per driver=less power required, if your cab is undersized then you need more power per driver.

This is also highly dependent on the room size so knowing that can help, the smaller the room, the less the cab size (more pressurization) will come into play.

Others more experienced than me may chime in to correct me if I'm wrong though. YMMV

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post #2339 of 2494 Old 07-20-2019, 07:39 PM
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It's all about choices. Any number that's a square (4, 9, 16, 25, etc) can be wired to the original driver's impedance. So yes, 16 can be wired into one 4 ohm load.

If it's nearfield it's all going to be one channel, so that's fine. If you're positioning around the room you'll lose the ability to individually eq/time align each "bank" of however many JBL's you have. Does that really matter? Depends on your goals and equipment. Likely will be more than sufficient for one position.

I'm probably going to do an amp per 9 for at least front L&R, and call them Sub1, Sub2. I'll do an xls2502 into those, which is a little over 250 watts to each one. The next 9 may be center, may be scattered around. I'll at least have 6 of them per amp (sub3, etc.) If I do 6, I'll probably just drive a bridged xls1502 into them at 6 ohms (3 internally in series for 12 ohms, paralled with 3 more of the same = 6 ohms), an xls 1502 will do about 1050 into 8 ohms, 1550 into 4 ohms, so call it about 200 watts per driver, and the higher impedance is easier on everything.

When all is said and done, I'd like 3-5 discreet equalizable and time alignable "assemblies" that I can glom together and eq for the major flavor of bass. The nearfield will be equ'd seperately and global eq will NOT apply to it. I'll probably keep the dozen I have on existing duty, but I would like to make nicer cabinets. I wonder what I could sell carpeted triple 12 enclosures for on Offerup/CL.
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post #2340 of 2494 Old 07-21-2019, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccoman View Post
You can get a 4 ohm load that way (series two pair , then parallel each grouping of 4, then series each group of 8)

4+4/4+4/4+4/4+4 per set would yield 2 ohms and then you would run both in series for 4 ohms 2+2=4 (16 total drivers) yield real world 125w/driver (@2k real world channel power)

but you would be better off getting two more and running 9 off of each channel making two magic squares. It's also highly dependent on cab size. If you're running 1-1.5 cu/ft per driver you'll need more power per driver (depending on room size) than what a single channel of the 6k can deliver, real world. The larger you go in cab size the better if running off a single channel.

Math:
Magic square is 9 is series/parallel yield would be 222w/driver both channels driven

I'm about to run 9 in the magic square configuration from one channel of a 6k using the prefab boxes that come in at 1.1-1.2 cu/ft per driver. It's a give and take. More cab space per driver=less power required, if your cab is undersized then you need more power per driver.

This is also highly dependent on the room size so knowing that can help, the smaller the room, the less the cab size (more pressurization) will come into play.

Others more experienced than me may chime in to correct me if I'm wrong though. YMMV

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Thanks. Good to hear I can do 2 ohm or 4 ohm. I'm doing an infinite baffle with 16 of them. There will be 2 holes in the floor along the back or front wall of the living room. So each baffle will have 8 of the subs. It looks like an NU3000DSP will put out 1000 real watts into 2 ohms, which is exactly what I need. Then I'd use the other channel to power my center (HT-12). Then another NU3000DSP to power the mains (also HT-12). If I do surrounds, I'll probably build HT-6s and power them from the AVR.

1000w doesn't sound like much for 16 subs, but according to winisd, I'm just barely passing xmax from 20hz to 5hz, but getting massive output with all of that sensitivity.

Edit: I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around wiring them all to get 4 ohms off of one channel. I wanna test them with an old bash 300 I have laying around. Can you explain further? I've only wired 2 subs together to get a 2 ohm load in a car and I used a diagram. Maybe I'll start a new thread...

Last edited by doodoobutter; 07-21-2019 at 07:06 AM.
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