12" JBL speaker $29 on black friday at Bestbuy - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 2344 Old 04-28-2018, 08:05 AM
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There are a lot of options for $100. The whole point to the JBL was/is the discount price.
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post #242 of 2344 Old 04-28-2018, 05:42 PM
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Arrow CS1214 Excursion Test - 18mm measured one way

Sup y'all. I ended up doing an excursion test on the CS1214 and thought it might interest some of you. The wire was measured at exactly 18mm in front of the dust cap so it exceeded that by a little bit but the suspension was at it's limits at this point and it didn't want to go to 19mm.


The burst was done at 7.5Hz and at that frequency this 1214 had an impedance of 4.25 ohms. The burst was captured on the scope:


I got the feeling that the driver soft bottoms but I'm not 100%. I don't enjoy damaging drivers and I could tell that it was getting close to that point if I kept dumping power into it. Anyone out there have experience with these things hard bottoming?

For use in most enclosures (unless IB), you'd have to dump some stupid power (way over manufacturer recommended) into these things before you'd be in a spot to hit excursion limits so the thing to consider is whether you'll thermal the coil with too much juice.
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post #243 of 2344 Old 04-28-2018, 06:35 PM
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Awesome! When modeling I’m using 15mm as my stopping point so I should be more than fine lol......

I’m curious how much wattage it would take to hit 18mm lol.......


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post #244 of 2344 Old 04-30-2018, 04:26 PM
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Thanks @Shreds ! Love the vid man.

That confirms that these drivers for the price are unbeatable. I used 15mm in the sims and I think it was @LTD02 that said you could theoretically get 17mm out of em in the CS1214 thread. You were right about the power too. I'm giving them all the 9K has and they just laugh at it cept for below 20hz or so. I would need either the 14K or the Speakerpower amp to properly power them but since they're 1" from the couch it's completely unnecessary too.
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post #245 of 2344 Old 05-01-2018, 03:45 AM
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Well, i am running just 4 of them on one NU6K, and judging from the cone movement the other day watching "Oz The Great And Powerful", i am probably above that 15mm at least.. They actually slapped my hand trying to touch the cone, LOL. I was flabbergasted at the sound of these, and definately contributed to both sound and TR, even compared to the 4xSI18’s farfield. Insanely impressed so far with them, and can't wait to get 8 and then maybe all 12(not sure all needed anymore, LOL) up and running.

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post #246 of 2344 Old 05-01-2018, 03:44 PM
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Yah an iNuke for 4 of them in proper size boxes will be more than enough to get them to Xmax. I think it's funny when I turn on my light on my phone and check to see how much they're moving and they don't even look like they are, even though my back feels like I'm sitting in a massage chair.

I did run TIH the other day at -5 from reference and they started moving a bit.
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post #247 of 2344 Old 05-01-2018, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madaeel View Post
Yah an iNuke for 4 of them in proper size boxes will be more than enough to get them to Xmax. I think it's funny when I turn on my light on my phone and check to see how much they're moving and they don't even look like they are, even though my back feels like I'm sitting in a massage chair.

I did run TIH the other day at -5 from reference and they started moving a bit.
I don’t know how yours is all connected to the 9K amp, but i suspect 8 in series-parallel for a total of 2 ohms pr. channel=4500 watts /8 subs = ~550 watt pr driver. So about the same a one NU6K on 4 driver. If your 16 moved as much as my 4 does, it would probably kill you, LOL.

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post #248 of 2344 Old 05-01-2018, 05:55 PM
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I bought four of these and was planning on building a table/bar to house them behind my single row of four seats. It's a big room, but I'm not sure that it matters given the close proximity to the listening position. I could potentially fit in eight of these though and was thinking about getting another four of them. The only rub is that these seats recline and with two rows of four of these drivers, the middle two seats would have a drivre right behind the back of your neck (with some seat-cushion in between of course).

Anyone ever build eight of these in a sealed enclosure? I was thinking 13.6cu for all 8 (1.7cu each). This'll be my first DIY so I'm kind taking a leap on this but I figure these drivers are pretty inexpensive. The amp and enclosure costs are kind of fixed no matter what I do so if four or eight of these will bring the bass, then I win, and I'm not out too much if I end up doing something different.
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post #249 of 2344 Old 05-01-2018, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
I don’t know how yours is all connected to the 9K amp, but i suspect 8 in series-parallel for a total of 2 ohms pr. channel=4500 watts /8 subs = ~550 watt pr driver. So about the same a one NU6K on 4 driver. If your 16 moved as much as my 4 does, it would probably kill you, LOL.
Yup. Except with mine I'd need the full 500 per driver down low to hit the Xmax and you won't with bigger cabs. I definitely need a Speakerpower SP2-8000.
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post #250 of 2344 Old 05-01-2018, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Madaeel View Post
Yup. Except with mine I'd need the full 500 per driver down low to hit the Xmax and you won't with bigger cabs. I definitely need a Speakerpower SP2-8000.
Why? The spec on that says 4000 watts @ 2ohm pr channel.

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post #251 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 02:42 PM
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Why what? I'm not sure what your question is...

The Bossobass FP9K I'm using now is for my wife's sub upstairs. I'm just borrowing it till I see what I need. My options are limited though and idk if Dave will sell me another amp. He's done a lot for me already and if he chooses not to I don't have a problem with it. The only other amp that I trust to work, and has a 12v trigger, is the SpeakerPower amp.
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post #252 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
I bought four of these and was planning on building a table/bar to house them behind my single row of four seats. It's a big room, but I'm not sure that it matters given the close proximity to the listening position. I could potentially fit in eight of these though and was thinking about getting another four of them. The only rub is that these seats recline and with two rows of four of these drivers, the middle two seats would have a drivre right behind the back of your neck (with some seat-cushion in between of course).

Anyone ever build eight of these in a sealed enclosure? I was thinking 13.6cu for all 8 (1.7cu each). This'll be my first DIY so I'm kind taking a leap on this but I figure these drivers are pretty inexpensive. The amp and enclosure costs are kind of fixed no matter what I do so if four or eight of these will bring the bass, then I win, and I'm not out too much if I end up doing something different.
Yup. I got 16 in two cabs so obviously 8 per cab. Mine have 1cuft per driver. It's awesome and besides my Raptors my favorite part of my HT. Do it...do it.
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post #253 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 04:03 PM
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I don't understand how you can add so much output in the 50 - 80hz range, especially near-field, without throwing your entire system balance off?
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post #254 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 04:25 PM
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Simple. Eq and don't turn it up too much. I hardly ever crank it. It's mostly for video games anyway. Nothing above what, 127db, is "reference" anymore. Most of us with basements have to run near-field to feel the same effects those with suspended floors feel with a typical placement. We all have our preferences too. To each their own.
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post #255 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
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I don't understand how you can add so much output in the 50 - 80hz range, especially near-field, without throwing your entire system balance off?
Quote:
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Simple. Eq and don't turn it up too much. I hardly ever crank it. It's mostly for video games anyway. Nothing above what, 127db, is "reference" anymore. Most of us with basements have to run near-field to feel the same effects those with suspended floors feel with a typical placement. We all have our preferences too. To each their own.
Exactly. I will have 12 spaced out around my room. WinISD shows MASSIVE SPL from 40hz and up..... I plan to add a LOW SHELF FILTER to boost the low end, and maybe a negative high shelf filter to bump some of the 40hz and up stuff down.

End result is should be a decently flat signal from 80hz down to 15hz if possible that doesnt blow the drivers or make them call too much attention to themselves (meaning you cant localize them).

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post #256 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 06:07 PM
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I think I'll be able to localize them from HERE.


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post #257 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 06:41 PM
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Exactly. I will have 12 spaced out around my room. WinISD shows MASSIVE SPL from 40hz and up..... I plan to add a LOW SHELF FILTER to boost the low end, and maybe a negative high shelf filter to bump some of the 40hz and up stuff down.

End result is should be a decently flat signal from 80hz down to 15hz if possible that doesnt blow the drivers or make them call too much attention to themselves (meaning you cant localize them).
12 spaced out will be amazing too. You'll have all that headroom at 40hz and up, really 30hz, AND get the room gain for down low. There's so many possibilities with these drivers at the price and their required depth.

@LastButNotLeast I can't see anything in your post at work or on my phone. Is that on my end or yours?

Also oddly enough I watched The Finest Hours with my sister on Saturday, and I turned it down because it is overpowering closer to reference of course. Yet neither me nor my sister thought we could tell the bass was behind us with the lower volume, which was still crazy. I figured I'd easily be able to tell but it surprised me how real it still felt.
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post #258 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 06:48 PM
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"HERE" was just referring to being able to hear your setup from there to my home in NJ.
I settled for a ButtKicker, but your way looks like lots of fun.
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post #259 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 06:54 PM
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Hahaha makes sense now when I re-read it. I thought maybe there was a link missing.
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post #260 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 07:10 PM
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I don't understand how you can add so much output in the 50 - 80hz range, especially near-field, without throwing your entire system balance off?
I was wondering the same thing. I was planning four CS1214's behind the seats (now maybe eight. Dang you Madaeel) and then two ported 18's up front. I'm wondering if I even need to bother with the 18's up front except to reach a little lower and then EQ them down above 30 or 40Hz. I may try just the near field out for awhile, hope it's not to localized, and see what happens before pulling the trigger on the 18's.
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post #261 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Madaeel View Post
12 spaced out will be amazing too. You'll have all that headroom at 40hz and up, really 30hz, AND get the room gain for down low. There's so many possibilities with these drivers at the price and their required depth.

Yup. That’s what the goal is.




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post #262 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 07:29 PM
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For the record I don't have 16 drivers for mid-bass. 8 drivers would even be more than enough. I did it simply for ULF. The unlimited mid-bass is just a plus. My Raptors still displace a good bit more air then the Adam Bombs(aka the JBL's) but to have any decent ULF I needed 16 because 6db below 25hz or so is a huge difference. It's even more apparent the lower you go compared to say 30hz and up.....and you need gobs of air to do it. With my depth constraints this made sense.
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
I was wondering the same thing. I was planning four CS1214's behind the seats (now maybe eight. Dang you Madaeel) and then two ported 18's up front. I'm wondering if I even need to bother with the 18's up front except to reach a little lower and then EQ them down above 30 or 40Hz. I may try just the near field out for awhile, hope it's not to localized, and see what happens before pulling the trigger on the 18's.
Sorry.

Like I said for myself I needed that many for ULF effects. 4 should be fine but IF you go with 8 you'll know you have headroom. I can't remember the last time anyone in the DIY section said they went to far.

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Yup. That’s what the goal is.


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That's gonna be a killer system for cheap too. Would be cool to do a DBA with 32...
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post #264 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 08:24 PM
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For the record I don't have 16 drivers for mid-bass. 8 drivers would even be more than enough. I did it simply for ULF. The unlimited mid-bass is just a plus. My Raptors still displace a good bit more air then the Adam Bombs(aka the JBL's) but to have any decent ULF I needed 16 because 6db below 25hz or so is a huge difference. It's even more apparent the lower you go compared to say 30hz and up.....and you need gobs of air to do it. With my depth constraints this made sense.
Modeling these things in Winisd, for me anyway, shows them down about 20db by the time you get to 20Hz. Granted, at 20Hz, four drivers are still at 100db, but from 60Hz on it's at around 123db. Do you just EQ-down above 20Hz? How do you get ULF out of these?

PS. By the gods, I finally figured out your username
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post #265 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 09:12 PM
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Modeling these things in Winisd, for me anyway, shows them down about 20db by the time you get to 20Hz. Granted, at 20Hz, four drivers are still at 100db, but from 60Hz on it's at around 123db. Do you just EQ-down above 20Hz? How do you get ULF out of these?

PS. By the gods, I finally figured out your username
For now yes. I have eq boosting the low end. You have to when subs are near-field since they resort back to their anechoic response. Depending on your box size it'll be better or worse. Mine is worse since I went too small on the enclosure. In the preferred size and Qtc they drop at the normal 12db per octave. However, even with the slope worse than that it still feels amazing since it's an inch from the couch. Pro's and cons.

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post #266 of 2344 Old 05-02-2018, 09:39 PM
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Not a near-field solution due to size, but an interesting comparison anyway.
Four cabinets with 12's in a 1500 cubic feet room.
5 cubic feet each tuned to 23 Hz driven by a NU3000DSP at 4 ohms / channel. 20 Hz hi-pass.
I think the system is power limited at this point but never see the clip lights in real world use anyway so no issue.

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post #267 of 2344 Old 05-03-2018, 03:59 AM
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Why what? I'm not sure what your question is...

The Bossobass FP9K I'm using now is for my wife's sub upstairs. I'm just borrowing it till I see what I need. My options are limited though and idk if Dave will sell me another amp. He's done a lot for me already and if he chooses not to I don't have a problem with it. The only other amp that I trust to work, and has a 12v trigger, is the SpeakerPower amp.
Ahh, got it. I thought you meant the move from FP9K to SP2-8000 would be a upgrade, but the specs say otherwise. I think you are good either way, so carry on


And my point of doing this was for TR. I had midbass TR with the Behringer B1200D and some LFE TR with the PSA, but none of them compare to the JBL’s. Much more TR and also over the whole LFE range. Simply a more effective way.

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post #268 of 2344 Old 05-03-2018, 05:21 AM
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Modeling these things in Winisd, for me anyway, shows them down about 20db by the time you get to 20Hz. Granted, at 20Hz, four drivers are still at 100db, but from 60Hz on it's at around 123db. Do you just EQ-down above 20Hz? How do you get ULF out of these?

PS. By the gods, I finally figured out your username
Pretty much what most of us do. I'm running a +12db low shelf filter starting at 40hz hehehehehe..... With that said, I dont have the amp cranked either so I actually have the wattage heardroom to run it at that. If I had the gain all the way up, then I'd have to lower the amount.

Alternately I could run the gain up all the way and then cut the crap out of the frequency response from 40hz on up to even it out.

Also a couple things worth mentioning.

1. WinISD doesn't account for room gain , so depending on where you plan to locate your subs you need to keep that in mind when looking at SPL numbers in WinISD.
2. WinISD assumes everything is co-located, so if I graphed all 12 drivers in 18cf (which is accurate to what I'm building) the SPL would be very very wrong as it assumes all 12 are a single unit rather than 4 distinct unit

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post #269 of 2344 Old 05-03-2018, 07:28 AM
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Pretty much what most of us do. I'm running a +12db low shelf filter starting at 40hz
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...z-dcx2496.html

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #270 of 2344 Old 05-03-2018, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Modeling these things in Winisd, for me anyway, shows them down about 20db by the time you get to 20Hz. Granted, at 20Hz, four drivers are still at 100db, but from 60Hz on it's at around 123db. Do you just EQ-down above 20Hz? How do you get ULF out of these?

PS. By the gods, I finally figured out your username


is there a lot of useful information at 20hz?


if there is, how much impact does it add to the overall sound?

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