15’ deep by 20’ wide by 8’ high space - Klipsch Reference or DIYSG? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 11-14-2017, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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15’ deep by 20’ wide by 8’ high space - Klipsch Reference or DIYSG?

I have a 15 foot deep by 20 foot wide by 8 foot high dedicated HT space and need to figure out what sounds better. Will Klipsch RP-280F towers and a RP-450C center sound better or would 3 DIYSG HT12 speakers in the wall, with one behind the screen, sound better? I’m an experienced woodworker so building them will be enjoyable. My MLP will be about 12 feet from the screen. If I build the speakers into the wall, I will build them out into the free attic space, and this means that the center channel will need to be close to the AT screen I choose to make or buy. How close can a HT12 be to the screen? I was also contemplating using Volt 8’s for the 2 side surrounds, 2 rear surrounds and 2 height speakers, or going with Klipsch speakers if I use Klipsch up front. I am also contemplating using 2 SVS PB16 subs or building my own 18’s into the corners of this wide space. If the DIY route sounds better and is cheaper, i’m all for that. Wondering if anyone out there has used Klipsch like speakers and then switched to DIY speakers.
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post #2 of 23 Old 11-14-2017, 05:14 PM
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Why not use something in same format as Klipsch? Fusion 8's or 893s are fantastic. 280s are $500 a piece and I promise Fusion 8s will sound better and only cost $700 for two towers and matching horizontal center. I had a set of those exact Klipsch you are talking about and I hated them, very painful to listen to (to my ears) at high volumes. And definitely save yourself some money and go DIY for subs.
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post #3 of 23 Old 11-14-2017, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Why not use something in same format as Klipsch? Fusion 8's or 893s are fantastic. 280s are $500 a piece and I promise Fusion 8s will sound better and only cost $700 for two towers and matching horizontal center. I had a set of those exact Klipsch you are talking about and I hated them, very painful to listen to (to my ears) at high volumes. And definitely save yourself some money and go DIY for subs.
If I go the DIY route, everything will be hidden behind the screen or wall treatments so that I don’t have to finish them. I really like building and don’t mind it at all, but I need objective opinions on the sound quality of the HTM12 speakers vs. Klipsch - the Klipsch RP-280F is very close in price to the HTM12 so I am wondering which actually sounds better. I would also like to know how a couple of SVS PB16 subs compare to 2 Marty DIY subs.

If I buy, it will be something in the somewhat affordable range as the Reference Klipsch speakers.
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post #4 of 23 Old 11-15-2017, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
If I go the DIY route, everything will be hidden behind the screen or wall treatments so that I don’t have to finish them. I really like building and don’t mind it at all, but I need objective opinions on the sound quality of the HTM12 speakers vs. Klipsch - the Klipsch RP-280F is very close in price to the HTM12 so I am wondering which actually sounds better. I would also like to know how a couple of SVS PB16 subs compare to 2 Marty DIY subs.

If I buy, it will be something in the somewhat affordable range as the Reference Klipsch speakers.
HTM will sound better hands down. I have heard lots of DIYSG speakers now and can't stand the Klipsch anymore. PB16 will outperform 2 Martys but for same price you could build like 8 Martys so it's really all in what you want to do. 2 Martys is a lot of bass.
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post #5 of 23 Old 11-15-2017, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Raylon View Post
HTM will sound better hands down. I have heard lots of DIYSG speakers now and can't stand the Klipsch anymore. PB16 will outperform 2 Martys but for same price you could build like 8 Martys so it's really all in what you want to do. 2 Martys is a lot of bass.
I'm pretty sure a Marty with a UM18 will actually outperform the PB16U, but the PB16u will extend a bit lower.
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post #6 of 23 Old 11-15-2017, 02:56 PM
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PB16 will not outperform a Marty. Well, probably with a few HZ extension depending on how low you tune it. I went from Klipsch RF7ii and RC64ii .. Both Reference Quality to DIY 1099's and they blew the Klipsch away with overall sound character while costing a fraction of the price. I understand you want the HTM 12, which has already been compared to the likes of 1099's so I';m sure they will outperform your Klipsch speakers you are pondering. Just my opinion. Go DIY and join all of us with this disease. You will not stop at the HTM's.. or Marty

Good Luck..

If you KRANK it.. They will Listen..
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post #7 of 23 Old 11-15-2017, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I’m definitely intrigued by these responses. You’re making me into a DIY Believer!

Would someone have some plans to make a low profile, 18” or less deep by whatever height Marty sub? I’d really like something tall and narrow that I can setup in the corners and build in to the front wall. I assume the norm here would be to drive the two Martys with a iNuke 6000DSP or should I roll with 2 iNuke 3000DSP amps?

I’m planning a 9.2 system so I need 6 additional speakers. Would you recommend the Volt 10LX or HTM10 speaker for side surround, rear surround and 2 Atmos duty?
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post #8 of 23 Old 11-15-2017, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post
I’m definitely intrigued by these responses. You’re making me into a DIY Believer!

Would someone have some plans to make a low profile, 18” or less deep by whatever height Marty sub? I’d really like something tall and narrow that I can setup in the corners and build in to the front wall. I assume the norm here would be to drive the two Martys with a iNuke 6000DSP or should I roll with 2 iNuke 3000DSP amps?

I’m planning a 9.2 system so I need 6 additional speakers. Would you recommend the Volt 10LX or HTM10 speaker for side surround, rear surround and 2 Atmos duty?
these might fit your needs
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...02-design.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...e-ps-18-a.html

Last edited by Rcris; 11-15-2017 at 07:56 PM.
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post #9 of 23 Old 11-16-2017, 04:44 AM
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Here's my 2c based on the data. I haven't heard either speaker (HTM or the Klipsch) but have heard several SEOS designs and think they are excellent.

Here's the Klipsch: https://hometheaterreview.com/klipsc...viewed/?page=2

Rising on axis response with a flat listening window avg. This is going to sound bright, however from that limited info it looks like the off axis response is probably fairly consistent which is good. I'd be reaching for the tone controls.

Here's the HTM: http://www.hificircuit.com/community...er-thread.609/

Flat axial response. 10khz looks like it might be a bit "hot" in the listening window from the polar but I'd bet on a bit of a falling response towards HF for the listening window which will translate to a bit of a falling response in room. To me this will sound more neutral and less fatiguing.

I can't quite tell but I think the Klipsch uses their tractrix horn with "mumps" which looks suspiciously like a diffraction device. A diffraction horn disturbs the wavefront on purpose to spread it out and get a more even off axis response. The SEOS is a different means to the same end, using a smooth curve to guide the wavefront and make an even polar. I'd choose the low diffraction design every time.
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post #10 of 23 Old 11-16-2017, 08:28 AM
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I have HTM12s and Klipsch reference and have owned the large 8 towers.

For fronts the HTM12s blow away Klipsch. I would take them over RF7s.

For surrounds imo nobody has matched the awesomeness of klipsch wide dispersion surrounds. I also likentheir bookshelves and while impressed with the diysg ones the extension on klipsch imo is better so far.

Htms take Klipsch and JBL concepts and take them to a level you could only match with expensive high end JBL JTR or Seatons imo.
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post #11 of 23 Old 11-16-2017, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!


Since I want to stand these up tall to flank the corners of the room, would there be any issue with the ports firing up into the ceiling? Ideally, I think I would want the ports to fire out into the seating positions. Thoughts?
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post #12 of 23 Old 11-16-2017, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RoboAVS View Post
I have HTM12s and Klipsch reference and have owned the large 8 towers.

For fronts the HTM12s blow away Klipsch. I would take them over RF7s.

For surrounds imo nobody has matched the awesomeness of klipsch wide dispersion surrounds. I also likentheir bookshelves and while impressed with the diysg ones the extension on klipsch imo is better so far.

Htms take Klipsch and JBL concepts and take them to a level you could only match with expensive high end JBL JTR or Seatons imo.
Thanks again for the responses.

I find it interesting that HTM12 speakers or any DIY speakers for that reason can be sound better than production speakers made with economies of scale. I'm slowly becoming a believer.

Would the HTM10's act as good back and side surround speakers or should I be looking into the Volt 8LX speakers? How about for my 2 Atmos speakers in the ceiling? Would it be worth it to squeeze two HTM10 speakers up into the ceiling or should I go with Volt 6 speakers in the ceiling angled toward the MLP?
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post #13 of 23 Old 11-17-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
Thanks again for the responses.

I find it interesting that HTM12 speakers or any DIY speakers for that reason can be sound better than production speakers made with economies of scale. I'm slowly becoming a believer.

Would the HTM10's act as good back and side surround speakers or should I be looking into the Volt 8LX speakers? How about for my 2 Atmos speakers in the ceiling? Would it be worth it to squeeze two HTM10 speakers up into the ceiling or should I go with Volt 6 speakers in the ceiling angled toward the MLP?
Where possible stick with the same series....if u go htms try to use them for all. But many use volts and love them so theres nothing wrong with that but they would not be a perfect voice match. How about htm6s for atmos and htm8s for surrounds (coming soon)?

Diy is better because they use higher end components and charge is cost. Klipsch as a for profit marks theirs up 3 or 4x. Design is very hard but there are peos here using proven concepts.
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post #14 of 23 Old 11-17-2017, 11:33 AM
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I am on the exact same situation. With the Black Friday sales exactly a week away, my local Best Buy will have klipsch speakers 50% off. I was really considering picking up a full set (minus subs as I have DIY plans). They don’t stock the premier though just the reference series. Is the reference series worth my time? Which would be a better buy...50% klipsch or some nice DIYs?
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post #15 of 23 Old 11-17-2017, 11:48 AM
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I just got into DIY sub/speakers about 2 years ago and can assure you that I will NEVER go back to retail ...EVER. The only consideration I would give is if there was a certain aesthetic design/look that I wanted but didn't have the time or skills to duplicate. But even then I'd truly struggle to plunk down the cash knowing what I know now, or should I say after hearing what I've heard now.

DIYSG over Klipsch imo. Not to say Klipsch doesn't make a good/great product but I've heard the Reference series and 3 years ago I was even prepared to spend upwards of 3-4k for a Reference series 7.1 setup. But today I'm fairly confident that my DIY 1299's, Fusion 8 and Volt 8 surrounds would walk all over those same Klipsch speakers.

And that's not even including the subs. There's no contest there

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post #16 of 23 Old 11-17-2017, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gameaholic View Post
I am on the exact same situation. With the Black Friday sales exactly a week away, my local Best Buy will have klipsch speakers 50% off. I was really considering picking up a full set (minus subs as I have DIY plans). They don’t stock the premier though just the reference series. Is the reference series worth my time? Which would be a better buy...50% klipsch or some nice DIYs?
Klipsch RP series are going to be 50% off at Best Buy?

Do you have a link?

Tempting........
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post #17 of 23 Old 11-17-2017, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
Thanks again for the responses.

I find it interesting that HTM12 speakers or any DIY speakers for that reason can be sound better than production speakers made with economies of scale. I'm slowly becoming a believer.

Would the HTM10's act as good back and side surround speakers or should I be looking into the Volt 8LX speakers? How about for my 2 Atmos speakers in the ceiling? Would it be worth it to squeeze two HTM10 speakers up into the ceiling or should I go with Volt 6 speakers in the ceiling angled toward the MLP?
Quite often, sales, marketing, and management has more to do with the design of a commercial speaker than engineering. It has to meet a price point, it has to fit within a product lineup. Actual performance may not have much to do with it.

DIY can't beat the cheapest mass production speakers at price, when the commercial products are made with economies of scale and cheap foreign labor. But they certainly can beat them at performance. So there is a certain minimum budget you have to spend to get in the DIY sweet spot.

High end commercial audio is just as boutique as DIY, and a lot of your money goes to pay the marketing department, sales guys, and for a fancy finish on the cabinet or custom matching drivers. DIY is a little more limited in some ways, generally using off-the-shelf components. You'll see plenty of designs where the drivers don't cosmetically match each other perfectly.
However Erich has done a number of custom drivers for different DIYSG speakers, works with great engineers, and creates great products. And DIYSG, and most DIY designs period, outperform anything at the same price point.

DIY audio is driven by love of the hobby, not the bottom dollar.
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post #18 of 23 Old 11-18-2017, 09:45 AM
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Klipsch RP series are going to be 50% off at Best Buy?

Do you have a link?

Tempting........
Here is a link to the Black Friday sales ad for Best Buy. They don't carry the ref premier line, just the ref line, so a little lower quality I suppose. I was looking at the R-28F as fronts which will be $225ea instead of $450ea and a couple pairs of the R-15M bookshelf speakers which will be $150 a pair instead of $300 a pair. Probably gonna just got DiY after reading a lot of reviews.
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post #19 of 23 Old 11-18-2017, 10:04 AM
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Here is a link to the Black Friday sales ad for Best Buy. They don't carry the ref premier line, just the ref line, so a little lower quality I suppose. I was looking at the R-28F as fronts which will be $225ea instead of $450ea and a couple pairs of the R-15M bookshelf speakers which will be $150 a pair instead of $300 a pair. Probably gonna just got DiY after reading a lot of reviews.
Its not just a little lower quality, its A LOT.

The tweeter is different, the horn is different, the woofers are considerably lower in quality than the RP line and the box material is much cheaper too. I compared the two side by side and those R-28F's are very poor IMO.

Klpisch is doing their sale again on their towers for $450 a piece, I'd say go DIY but I have the RP280F's and they have done well for me. I plan on changing these out when I get to an area that Eric can ship to me without me selling one of my kids.
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post #20 of 23 Old 11-18-2017, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Do the compression drivers used in these htm speakers provide better sound quality than the tweeter drivers in the RP-280F?

http://assets.klipsch.com/product-sp...Spec-Sheet.pdf
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post #21 of 23 Old 11-18-2017, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1st Cav View Post
I just got into DIY sub/speakers about 2 years ago and can assure you that I will NEVER go back to retail ...EVER. The only consideration I would give is if there was a certain aesthetic design/look that I wanted but didn't have the time or skills to duplicate. But even then I'd truly struggle to plunk down the cash knowing what I know now, or should I say after hearing what I've heard now.

DIYSG over Klipsch imo. Not to say Klipsch doesn't make a good/great product but I've heard the Reference series and 3 years ago I was even prepared to spend upwards of 3-4k for a Reference series 7.1 setup. But today I'm fairly confident that my DIY 1299's, Fusion 8 and Volt 8 surrounds would walk all over those same Klipsch speakers.

And that's not even including the subs. There's no contest there

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How would you say a pair of DIY Marty subwoofers with a low-end Behringer iNuke 6000DSP powering them compare to a pair of SVS PB16 Ultra subs?
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post #22 of 23 Old 11-19-2017, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
Do the compression drivers used in these htm speakers provide better sound quality than the tweeter drivers in the RP-280F?

http://assets.klipsch.com/product-sp...Spec-Sheet.pdf
Like I said I've heard all the speakers you are talking about and the 280's don't even really hold a candle to any DIYSG design. Every one I've heard sound much better. If you enjoy feeling like your ears are bleeding, then go with the Klipsch.

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How would you say a pair of DIY Marty subwoofers with a low-end Behringer iNuke 6000DSP powering them compare to a pair of SVS PB16 Ultra subs?
My earlier assessment was wrong bout the PB16, I did some looking and they aren't as good as I remember. A single Marty will easily compete with it for a fraction of the cost. You could run two Martys with UM18s with a single 6000DSP and get same if not better performance than the PB16. I can't even fathom the $5000 pricetag for two PB16s. That's insane. If you don't want to build something I would much rather look at this guy for way less than 2 PB16s

http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-4000ulf.html
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post #23 of 23 Old 11-19-2017, 06:59 AM
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Do the compression drivers used in these htm speakers provide better sound quality than the tweeter drivers in the RP-280F?

http://assets.klipsch.com/product-sp...Spec-Sheet.pdf
Take a look at my htm12 build thread it just popped back up again. Much of my review addresses this question ditectly.

Klipsch makes GREAT horns imo but SEOS is a whole new level.

On subs yes a marty can match and beat a pb16 for a fraction of cost. In fact diysg just launched 8cft premade boxes so you can buy them made and just drop in the driver and connect it.

Or build them even cheaper. We all build them because they are superior for less. Svs is awesome for those that dont want to build they make solid subs.
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