Dual Opposed 21" Build - 4x Incriminator Audio Judge 21" - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 39Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 41 Old 12-11-2017, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Cool Dual Opposed 21" Build - 4x Incriminator Audio Judge 21"

Finally I'm moving up from a pair of dual opposed 18" subwoofers (Dayton RSS460HO-4) to dual opposed 21" subwoofers! I'm still keeping the 18s in the system, of course! I've been eyeing these drivers ever since @lukeamdman had built his. When I ordered mine I specified to have them made just like Luke's!

So thank you Luke for the inspiration and for answering my questions as well. ( It's also thanks to him I've acquired a pair of Othorns, so he must be good influence, right? )

The subwoofers were ordered roughly three weeks ago now, which I got a nice black Friday deal on, which really helped push me to go for it, and they'll arrive here by freight tomorrow.


The Cabinets will be 23" W x 24" H x 43" L, out of baltic birch. Doubled up on the baffles so they are 1.5" thick. Otherwise the rest of the thickness will be 3/4". I've calculated that 11.198 FT³ in internal volume before inner bracing and driver displacement. Then 10.5042 FT³ after bracing and drivers are installed.

Each cabinet's width is at the maximum allowable size that I can fit due to how my Othorns and current dual opposed cabinets are taking up so much space, which I probably could have went a little higher on the height, but I didn't want to bring the 1099s up any higher than they already are. Depth was also a limiting factor, since 43" L is already pushing it. Otherwise I would have simply bought Luke's old cabinets and called it a day but those would definitely stick out way too far!

Currently the plan is to have three inner bracing, but I do have enough material to make it four if needed or if I felt the need to.





Yesterday I spent all day getting the material cut and ready for the next steps.




I ended up having a little helper here.



Then all the material waiting further work.



Tonight I plan to get started on routing the baffles and bracing, and hopefully get started on assembly tonight or tomorrow.

Also once I get everything going I'll probably have to steal my Peavey IPR2 5000 away from the Daytons to power the 21s, until I can get a SpeakerPower SP-12000 amp.
Hoodcom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 41 Old 12-11-2017, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Hoodcom is offline  
post #3 of 41 Old 12-11-2017, 09:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked: 2000
lukeamdman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 41 Old 12-11-2017, 09:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eng-399's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Plainfield IL.
Posts: 5,532
Mentioned: 550 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2429 Post(s)
Liked: 5019
eng-399 is offline  
post #5 of 41 Old 12-11-2017, 09:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
uniquepattern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,893
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 808 Post(s)
Liked: 857
Very cool...
uniquepattern is offline  
post #6 of 41 Old 12-11-2017, 12:46 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,815
Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3777 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Boom boom.

Should be a pretty big upgrade.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #7 of 41 Old 12-11-2017, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Progress report, I fired up the router this evening and worked on the baffles and bracing!

Some how I ended up planning originally for just two inner bracing, apart from the doubled baffle, per cabinet. With the cuts I had made two extra bracing, so I may go ahead and put those in so there's three braces per cabinet. The middle bracing I cut the holes slightly bigger. Still will result in a little bit lower enclosure volume, but surely the extra bracing will be worth it?







I'm planning to begin assembly tomorrow evening, which I'll be using PL Premium and likely screws to assemble the cabinet. That or maybe some screws for portions and the brad nailer for the rest or all of it. We'll see. I'm leaning towards screws because it'll be pretty solid for me to immediately start using vinyl spackle on the cabinets after using the router trim bit on the edges. I'd really like to be sure to have everything done before this weekend.

Once the drivers arrive tomorrow at work, I'll likely be going to take some pictures of those drivers.
eng-399 and gixerking like this.
Hoodcom is offline  
post #8 of 41 Old 12-12-2017, 05:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe, Croatia
Posts: 1,746
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 561
Total offtopic, but is that a pomeranian? If yes, I need a better pic.

Revel Ultima Salon 2, Revel M106, Revel C208, Yamaha P5000S, Denon X5200, Panasonic 65" VT50, Dual VBSS w Faital 18FH510
Kef LS50, Parasound New Classic, Focusrite 2i4 2nd Gen
donktard is offline  
post #9 of 41 Old 12-12-2017, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Total offtopic, but is that a pomeranian? If yes, I need a better pic.
No, she's a mini australian shepherd.

Though I'm still going to show a better picture. Heh

uniquepattern and donktard like this.
Hoodcom is offline  
post #10 of 41 Old 12-12-2017, 09:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
OJ Bartley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 496 Post(s)
Liked: 586
This is going to be impressive. I'd say add an extra internal brace. Even if you just use the simple "piece of scrap" method to bridge top-bottom and side-side, it will help keep resonance down, and you'll feel better down the road when it's too late to go back and add more. The amount of space a brace takes up in a cab this size really is negligible, so I'd at at least one more, if not 2 more, cross braces. Just a simple "+" shape in the middle of the cabinet, maybe between your current planned braces.
Hoodcom likes this.
OJ Bartley is offline  
post #11 of 41 Old 12-12-2017, 01:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked: 2000
lukeamdman is offline  
post #12 of 41 Old 12-12-2017, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Where are the pics of the drivers?
Still waiting on FedEx Freight truck to get here at this point. It feels like they are taking forever.
Hoodcom is offline  
post #13 of 41 Old 12-12-2017, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Where are the pics of the drivers?
Alright Luke, here's some pictures.








And that's about as far as I got with them. These bad boys have some serious weight to them, and you sure weren't kidding me when you were talking to me about it.

I think it just is a sign I need to work out more though.


So far the progress this evening resulted in one cabinet pretty well assembled, still need to get the baffles trimmed with my router bits. I wish I could have got both cabinets to this point tonight but I'm afraid I could not. Oh well, it's better than no progress at all. I'm still shooting to have this done by this weekend.






I think they turned out really nice with having three internal bracing. I think I would definitely have gone with four if I had the cabinets any longer.
Hoodcom is offline  
post #14 of 41 Old 12-12-2017, 08:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
Craig S King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 736
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 408 Post(s)
Liked: 522
Good looking garage/work space!
Hoodcom likes this.
Craig S King is offline  
post #15 of 41 Old 12-13-2017, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig S King View Post
Good looking garage/work space!
Thanks! It's really dad's garage, but the biggest benefit is it's heated, so working on projects like this on cold days is really nice. Especially once I move onto the vinyl spackling / Duratex phase of the project. I'm hoping to get started on the vinyl spackling tonight.



Part of me almost is tempted to try out two of the drivers in the cabinet together now, but I'd rather wait until I get these finished first.


By the way, @lukeamdman , did you have to add a gasket or are the rubber pieces around the basket good to seal the drivers for the cabinet?


Which also reminds me, I need to pick up washers for the screws, too.
Hoodcom is offline  
post #16 of 41 Old 12-13-2017, 07:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked: 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodcom View Post
Thanks! It's really dad's garage, but the biggest benefit is it's heated, so working on projects like this on cold days is really nice. Especially once I move onto the vinyl spackling / Duratex phase of the project. I'm hoping to get started on the vinyl spackling tonight.



Part of me almost is tempted to try out two of the drivers in the cabinet together now, but I'd rather wait until I get these finished first.


By the way, @lukeamdman , did you have to add a gasket or are the rubber pieces around the basket good to seal the drivers for the cabinet?


Which also reminds me, I need to pick up washers for the screws, too.
Since my cabinets were finished with Duratex I did use gasket.
lukeamdman is offline  
post #17 of 41 Old 12-13-2017, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Since my cabinets were finished with Duratex I did use gasket.
So say window weather seal under the rubber gasket the IA drivers came with? Or under those and then under the basket ring to ensure it's also sealed between the IA rubber gasket and the basket frame?
Hoodcom is offline  
post #18 of 41 Old 12-13-2017, 07:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked: 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodcom View Post
So say window weather seal under the rubber gasket the IA drivers came with? Or under those and then under the basket ring to ensure it's also sealed between the IA rubber gasket and the basket frame?
I put the gasket tape on the box and then just drop the driver in.

Similar to this:



When putting the gasket tape on the underside of a really heavy driver I've found it's easy to accidentally rip it off while loading it.
Hoodcom likes this.
lukeamdman is offline  
post #19 of 41 Old 12-14-2017, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Alright, yesterday's progress, I got home an hour early so I immediately resumed work, getting the next cabinet assembled, then getting the router trimming on the baffles, and vinyl spackle some more. This morning I got up early (5AM) so I could get the rest of that done and get started on the first coat of Duratex.



First coat is on, I didn't take a picture of that since I was in a hurry to head into work. This at least will let me get things done a bit quicker, in a timely manner by letting the first coat dry while at work. Only the bottom sides aren't done but I'll work on that once I take care of the rest first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
I put the gasket tape on the box and then just drop the driver in.

Similar to this:



When putting the gasket tape on the underside of a really heavy driver I've found it's easy to accidentally rip it off while loading it.
Okay, that clears things up and makes perfect sense!
Hoodcom is offline  
post #20 of 41 Old 12-15-2017, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Oh I'm feeling the burn, literally from these heavy drivers.

First on progress, is I got the duratex done.



I really like this Speakon housing.



Then the 21" IA Judge vs a 15" Cerwin Vega AT-15 woofer, a Nintendo Switch, and the plush of my character.




The drivers are upstairs, the cabinets are upstairs... and @lukeamdman sure was not kidding about the weight of these drivers. Plans are to load them into the cabinet today and fire them up.
lukeamdman and eng-399 like this.
Hoodcom is offline  
post #21 of 41 Old 12-15-2017, 03:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,452
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1537 Post(s)
Liked: 1599
corradizo is online now  
post #22 of 41 Old 12-15-2017, 04:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked: 2000
lukeamdman is offline  
post #23 of 41 Old 12-15-2017, 06:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eng-399's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Plainfield IL.
Posts: 5,532
Mentioned: 550 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2429 Post(s)
Liked: 5019
eng-399 is offline  
post #24 of 41 Old 12-15-2017, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
One is ALIVE as we speak!


I'm having to pull off the corner pieces off the Othorns (One bottom sides anyway) so they can fit. Yeah, very tight fit, I'll show you guys later once I get all this mess tidied up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Maybe rent an engine crane?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
We have one out in the garage, actually. Haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Looking good!
Thanks Luke! I could have done better though if I took more time with the vinyl spackling, but I had to get them done quick, plus I wanted to get them done quick They are not bad, but you mostly can tell where some of the wood meets each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Man those boxes look great! You got them done in record time to. Sounds like those drivers are heavy
Thanks! Record time though? Funny, I kept feeling I was taking too long. lol Yes, the drivers are heavy, but thankfully dad was here to help. I had two screw heads break off when I was inserting them with the drill. Oops, so we had to pull two drivers out to correct that. Next time I used a bigger drill bit to drill my holes. Seemed to have helped.
eng-399 likes this.
Hoodcom is offline  
post #25 of 41 Old 12-15-2017, 08:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked: 2000
lukeamdman is offline  
post #26 of 41 Old 12-15-2017, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
What are you powering these with?
Currently my Peavey IPR2 5000. I was thinking it'll be the better choice over the iNuke 6000 (maybe?). Then maybe switch the Daytons over to the iNuke.

Got both hooked up at this time, and with the settings left alone, other than turning low pass off.

My LED lights are sensitive to surges on the dimmer switch, and I notice a slight drop in light when I was pushing these with the AVR at +10. (Still need to work on my gain structure a bit.) So I think the Peavey is really sucking some juice, and it's on it's own 20amp circuit.

Main goal is getting a SpeakerPower amp for these.
Hoodcom is offline  
post #27 of 41 Old 12-15-2017, 08:54 PM
d_c
AVS Forum Special Member
 
d_c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: KCMO
Posts: 2,801
Mentioned: 244 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1179 Post(s)
Liked: 1608
d_c is offline  
post #28 of 41 Old 12-15-2017, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c View Post
They look great man! Curtain shaker is a good one for rippling the walls
Heck yeah!

Funny though, now that I got the Daytons going with the IA Judge 21s (I moved the Daytons to the iNuke 6000 to series so the IAs can have the Peavey), with them both cranked, the LEDs are flickering. The APC reports zero power drops, and everythings on their own circuit... but these LEDs are sensitive through the dimmer I have.

Maybe it's time to invest in the Philips Hue LEDs and put a regular switch back in.


Also... further work in progress... I really need to get things re-wired as well, but I'm going to tidy what I have currently.
lukeamdman, bebb and eng-399 like this.
Hoodcom is offline  
post #29 of 41 Old 12-15-2017, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hoodcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Okay, I've got everything in place at this point, I'm done messing with it for the night.



Impressions so far have been good, but being so late I haven't been able to give them a good test run, other than curtain shaker, and even then I don't know if I've even gone near the limits of the Peavey for these. I know the fans kicked to higher speeds.

So far with music alone, with those playing along with the Daytons (Low-pass filters off and Othorns off at the moment) they are sounding pretty good here. Tomorrow or Sunday I'm going to get to measuring with R.E.W. to get an idea on what to do next.
Hoodcom is offline  
post #30 of 41 Old 12-16-2017, 08:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked: 2000
lukeamdman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off