Dual THT's w/UM15-22....My First Build!!! - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 105 Old 02-11-2018, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altzheimer View Post
So how is the build going?

Any real "in room testing" yet?
I'm wondering too - you can't start petering out on us now

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post #32 of 105 Old 02-11-2018, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Things are moving along....well.......kinda. I was sick this last week and have been having a tough time keeping momentum. This was kind of expected, so things have actually moved a little faster than expected. The second cab only needs the access panel attached to be "functionally complete."

I'll post an update with some pictures, some good news, and some bad news this evening.
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post #33 of 105 Old 02-11-2018, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I have not done as many pics of the second cab build, mostly because I'm trying to hurry up and get done, plus it's the same as the first lol. Been pretty busy so, progress is sporadic and frantic. Tonight though, I can say both cabs are ready for their finishing work!!!

Here are some pics from a couple of weeks ago when the weather was actually nice on a Saturday before the rain set in on Sunday. Anyone who has loaded the sketchup file from the plans might see it in the last pic




And a nice little driver shot. This was just a test fit, no hardware or gasket.


And some TWINS pics for you perverts lol. Seeing these things in the garage is getting me super anxious to finish the cabs.




But not all celebrations and jubilee just yet. I thought there was an odd noise when I was testing the first cabinet, but figured I would build the second and see if it did the same. Umm, whelllllll, it didn't. Crap. Brought home my stethoscope, added some extension tubing and had a listen with a 20hz tone playing. I found it.....


Tomorrow I'll reach out to PE and see what we can do since they do not show to restock until 2/20. Oh well, I have sworn to myself that I'm not bringing a cab into the house until the finishing work is done so there is still some time to get the driver addressed. Just a bit frustrating is all. Even with the air leak, the pair of them still sound amazing and are rocking the garage with TONS of headroom to spare.

I also filled in the brad nail holes for the visible sides of one cab. Just need a nice day outside with the flush trim bit and then do some sanding. Hopefully more updates this next weekend
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post #34 of 105 Old 02-12-2018, 03:53 AM
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Dang! Crazy what that method can find. Is that the surround not being sealed?

Looking very good. What have you listened to?

Not sure if I've asked what your lcr consists of, can they keep up with the subs? Lol.

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post #35 of 105 Old 02-12-2018, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
Dang! Crazy what that method can find. Is that the surround not being sealed?

Looking very good. What have you listened to?

Not sure if I've asked what your lcr consists of, can they keep up with the subs? Lol.
Yeah, the surround has that spot missing glue at the basket. Hopefully PE is cool.

I've only listened to some dubstep and pop music just to run different frequencies to check for noises. No critical listening since all the garage rattles are quite distracting

And for my mains, I have Polk Monitor 50 towers and CS10 center. Based on my impressions thus far, I'm not expecting them to be able to keep up haha! Aside from making some sound absorbing panels thanks to @darrellh44 , upgrading my mains is next on the list. That might not happen until after a baffle wall is built though. You know how it goes
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post #36 of 105 Old 02-12-2018, 09:31 AM
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Given your ability to make quick work of cabinetry, are you looking at any of the DIYSG SEOS kits for your LCRs?
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post #37 of 105 Old 02-12-2018, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
Given your ability to make quick work of cabinetry, are you looking at any of the DIYSG SEOS kits for your LCRs?
Oh yes I am!! Still a bit undecided between HTM12's, maybe 10, or Tempests. I'm having a tough time deciding if I would prefer having the lower FR from the Tempest, or go with the HTM12 SEOS 15. I keep leaning HTM just because I can always add an MBM if I don't feel as the mains are blending well with the THTs. Dunno, that's future Chris's problem!!
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post #38 of 105 Old 02-12-2018, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Oh yes I am!! Still a bit undecided between HTM12's, maybe 10, or Tempests. I'm having a tough time deciding if I would prefer having the lower FR from the Tempest, or go with the HTM12 SEOS 15. I keep leaning HTM just because I can always add an MBM if I don't feel as the mains are blending well with the THTs. Dunno, that's future Chris's problem!!
I'm sure there's lots of opinions on DIYSG speakers, but I would personally go with the HTM-12s and the 15" waveguides. They'll control dispersion to lower frequencies better than 12" Tempest waveguides. The Tempests are supposed to have more punch, but I would think the dual THTs would give you all of the punch and tactile response you need, even from across the room. Also THTs FR looks very smooth past 200Hz, so you shouldn't have any problems crossing HTM-12s at 80Hz.

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post #39 of 105 Old 02-12-2018, 04:36 PM
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I'd just seal that leak myself and get to rockin!
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post #40 of 105 Old 02-13-2018, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
I'm sure there's lots of opinions on DIYSG speakers, but I would personally go with the HTM-12s and the 15" waveguides. They'll control dispersion to lower frequencies better than 12" Tempest waveguides. The Tempests are supposed to have more punch, but I would think the dual THTs would give you all of the punch and tactile response you need, even from across the room. Also THTs FR looks very smooth past 200Hz, so you shouldn't have any problems crossing HTM-12s at 80Hz.
I prefer crossing the THTLP around 100hz it gives more "punch" than the HTM 12´s @ 80hz.
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post #41 of 105 Old 02-13-2018, 08:29 AM
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I prefer crossing the THTLP around 100hz it gives more "punch" than the HTM 12´s @ 80hz.
That's even better. I just didn't want notFastEnough to choose LCRs based on which one had better low-end punch and then try to cross any lower than 80Hz. I live a few miles from him, and I'm anxious to hear what the THTs can do.
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post #42 of 105 Old 02-13-2018, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Altzheimer View Post
I prefer crossing the THTLP around 100hz it gives more "punch" than the HTM 12´s @ 80hz.
Would you happen to have any measurement graphs of how the THTLP is blending with the HTMs? Do you feel as though the transition between the sub and the mains is pretty smooth? I am interested to hear your impressions on that. Thanks!
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post #43 of 105 Old 02-13-2018, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Would you happen to have any measurement graphs of how the THTLP is blending with the HTMs? Do you feel as though the transition between the sub and the mains is pretty smooth? I am interested to hear your impressions on that. Thanks!
I've never had any issues with my THTs blending with my mains. Not when I had KLF20s, or Volt 8s and especially not now with the 1299s. Honestly, they blend really really well.

Typed on a tiny keyboard, excuse any typos
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post #44 of 105 Old 02-13-2018, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Would you happen to have any measurement graphs of how the THTLP is blending with the HTMs? Do you feel as though the transition between the sub and the mains is pretty smooth? I am interested to hear your impressions on that. Thanks!
Quote:
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I've never had any issues with my THTs blending with my mains. Not when I had KLF20s, or Volt 8s and especially not now with the 1299s. Honestly, they blend really really well.

Typed on a tiny keyboard, excuse any typos
My understanding of sub blending issues comes in the frequency range where a sub has an irregular phase response, eg, around port tune on ported subs. Someone else may know better, but I think the phase irregularities with front loaded tapped horns are mostly at the low-end of their response. The high end of their response where you'll be blending with the LCRs is fine. You have to account for the constant delay of the horn length with a delay setting somewhere, but that's fairly easy to do.

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post #45 of 105 Old 02-13-2018, 10:00 AM
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Congrats on the build. You're gonna love them . . and dialing them in is worth the effort

this is how I tackled making everything learn to play nice . .
I have a 30" and 24' THTLP in my mancave, < 100ft^2 and < 900 ft^3, each has a BASH 300 and the AVR is a Denon X4000.
the 30 in the right front corner points at the 8' ceiling.
the 24 fits behind the couch and fires into the lower left rear corner of the room. about 17" spacing
After finally getting REW and ASIO to make nice,
AND many sweeps and distance, xo and LPF changes and the sub distance tweak and a different L/R (20 y.o. 8" 2ways)

I got rid of the 36 hz dip, enjoy a bit of a house curve and the waterfall is good.

A inuke1000dsp could be an improvement with tuning/ EQ
I'd like to hear if anyone has experience with using it for these subs . .

looking to see your experience of taming the room
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post #46 of 105 Old 02-13-2018, 03:57 PM
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Notfastenough,

After reading through your build, I went ahead and ordered the THT and THTLP instructions from Bill's website. I am very interested in hearing your thoughts on how they sound! Please post soon.

Dave
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post #47 of 105 Old 02-13-2018, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post

A inuke1000dsp could be an improvement with tuning/ EQ
I'd like to hear if anyone has experience with using it for these subs

I use a 1000dsp on a THT. It's a good fit for a single, might be underpowered for a pair. Mine is on one channel now, and I can light em all up easy. Bridged would be too much power under 30hz but it should handle it for music. I ran it bridged for a bit, and it did make some bad noises at full power. The 3000dsp is simply a better buy.
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post #48 of 105 Old 02-13-2018, 05:57 PM
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@Samps

power would be presumed to be in the overkill range, of course . . even the bash 300's can only be run at about 20% gain

for the edification of others, : How did you make out with maybe importing REW settings wrt smoothing response/transition to mains?

given that it's your room that makes all the difference obviously but was the extra dsp power worth it?

TY

and of course this will help folks that are now inspired to build

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The bash will tap out before the THT in the upper bass range. I ran my 1000dsp to the red light often bridged playing music. At 23hz you'll bottom out with a third of that power. Excursion skyrockets at the horn "tune."

I don't use any peq currently, only delay due to it being a foot behind my head.

I will use some peq once I get everything setup correctly. For now it's raw and eq free.

High pass it at 30hz and it can belt out some serious spl.
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post #50 of 105 Old 02-14-2018, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dasa2131 View Post
Notfastenough,

After reading through your build, I went ahead and ordered the THT and THTLP instructions from Bill's website. I am very interested in hearing your thoughts on how they sound! Please post soon.

Dave
I took an extra day off this weekend, so I hope to have at least one cabinet in the room by Monday night. I'll be doing a temporary wiring run until I can get into the attic and do my in wall drops. I also will be adding two dedicated circuits from my breaker box for the HT rack area. That and a honey-do to put an electrical outlet into our bedroom closet(I've put that one off a bit too long, her patience has been thoroughly tested lol.)

Two things that would have made my build a little more OCD friendly would have been to buy the Baltic Birch ply and use the jigs described in the plans. These two things would have helped with the biggest frustration of the build.....plywood warpage. Aside from that, the plans are phenomenal and ALMOST do the job for you. Read thoroughly and multiple times.

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The bash will tap out before the THT in the upper bass range. I ran my 1000dsp to the red light often bridged playing music. At 23hz you'll bottom out with a third of that power. Excursion skyrockets at the horn "tune."

I don't use any peq currently, only delay due to it being a foot behind my head.

I will use some peq once I get everything setup correctly. For now it's raw and eq free.

High pass it at 30hz and it can belt out some serious spl.
I'm pretty certain that I have seen this, but could you confirm that the iNuke DSP does not have the ability to add low shelf filters? Between the need to do a fan mod, workaround for standby mode, power up/down thump, and LS filters, I have been leaning toward miniDSP with a crown xls amp. I however do like the idea of "all in one" component as well. I just can not see enough reasons to not do the miniDSP route. That also gives me channel options for mbm modules and/or nearfield in the future.

BTW, here is a picture of the front of my room. The subs will each have the mouth facing the corners and placed along the front wall, not facing it. Since it is symmetrical, I should be able to use only one of the sub outs from the avr as well as a single channel of amplification/dsp if i desire.

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post #51 of 105 Old 02-14-2018, 09:06 AM
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I currently have three inukes. Yes I can hear them when it is silent in the room, but it is never really silent in the room when those are on as music or movies are playing. Even during non active times in movies, there is still something going on in the movie, so I don’t hear them. Just my .02
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post #52 of 105 Old 02-14-2018, 09:25 AM
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I'm pretty certain that I have seen this, but could you confirm that the iNuke DSP does not have the ability to add low shelf filters? Between the need to do a fan mod, workaround for standby mode, power up/down thump, and LS filters, I have been leaning toward miniDSP with a crown xls amp. I however do like the idea of "all in one" component as well. I just can not see enough reasons to not do the miniDSP route. That also gives me channel options for mbm modules and/or nearfield in the future.
I have an iNuke 3000DSP, and it can definitely do low-pass and high-pass shelf, bandpass, etc filters with programmable cutoff and slopes. It's possible to 'twiddle' the settings using the iNuke's front panel buttons, but it's much easier to do with a USB-connected PC running iNuke's GUI driver.
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miniDSP is a good option also. They have some noise issues but probably not worth worrying about for sub use. The inuke dsp does have shelf filters, HPF, LPF and delay, along with dynamic eq which can really come in handy. They are ugly though. As long as you have some form of dsp you will be fine. Choose whichever option seems better to you, ultimately they will all work out the same.

None of my inukes have thump issues, and they are all switched on and off by a power strip. None of mine are 6000s though. I did have a 6000dsp for a little while and it didn't thump either. Sounds like the newer models might have new issues, but I can't confirm that. I use the noctua fans and they have run silent with no issues for almost 4 years now. I do open up the lids and blow out the dust twice a year.
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post #54 of 105 Old 02-14-2018, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome, thanks for the info guys!
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post #55 of 105 Old 02-14-2018, 11:43 AM
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I'm not using my iNUKE 3000DSP right now if you want to borrow it to try out.
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post #56 of 105 Old 02-14-2018, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not using my iNUKE 3000DSP right now if you want to borrow it to try out.
Thanks bud! At the moment, I'm still pretty convinced that I want to go the miniDSP route. If that changes, I'd be interested in checking it out for sure. Do you have cables set up for unbalanced RCA connections?

I've still got to finish the cabs and buy a umik before DSP will do anything for me anyhow, so I'll settle on the route in the next few weeks. Additionally, I still don't know if I'll be able to load the second cab into the room. For my second driver, PE has only acknowledged receiving my email and said tech support will review it. If they will not allow me to seal the surround temporarily until they restock the um15s, I'll only be running part of the system and will have response that a second cab can surely influence.

It seems that circumstances don't want me to rush my decisions lol.
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post #57 of 105 Old 02-16-2018, 12:46 AM
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I also plan to use one channel of XLS1502 for 2x Ultimax 15" (sealed cabinets though - I'm not as skilled as you) but wondering if I should get an iNuke 6000DSP instead. I'm very curious to hear your impressions with the Crown and if you get any comparison with iNuke.

I like your subs and theater btw. Looks amazing
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post #58 of 105 Old 02-16-2018, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielsen84 View Post
I also plan to use one channel of XLS1502 for 2x Ultimax 15" (sealed cabinets though - I'm not as skilled as you) but wondering if I should get an iNuke 6000DSP instead. I'm very curious to hear your impressions with the Crown and if you get any comparison with iNuke.

I like your subs and theater btw. Looks amazing
Although I'm looking at powering the same drivers with a single channel (775w @ 2 ohms), it is only because the cabinet design is super efficient that it might work. I am really considering using a dedicated amp for them, but will cross that bridge when I get to it. The power demands for using the drivers in sealed cabinets will be higher. The 6000DSP would be better, but you would not be able to run 2X um's on one channel of it. The 6k will only run a 4 ohm load per channel, lower than that will not be ideal.

Thank you for the kind words as well!! I was able to get out last night and do some flush trimming and sanding for one cabinet. Snapped a pic of before/after. Looking good enough to be painted black and hidden in plain sight

Also, PE replied and said that it would be ok for me to put some RTV over the UM15 surround gap. So I pookied that and will check it tonight for air tightness.

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post #59 of 105 Old 02-16-2018, 12:58 PM
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Get the minidsp HD. Im battling the standards huge output voltage drop, Would be nice to not worry about that.

If you know someone with a umik you should borrow it and take a measurement with REW or whatever program and see what it looks like. If I had known what mine looked like I wouldnt have messed with a minidsp. Basically it was hot from 20hz and gradually dies down, with a few nulls but nothing at a frequency that I care about.

I do think a behringer DSP amp wouldve served me better instead of a inuke 1000 and then buying a minidsp and umik. A 1000dsp would been fine.

- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
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post #60 of 105 Old 02-18-2018, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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OH BOY!!!!! These things rock, let me and the neighbors tell you bwaahahaha!!

I have the amp and wiring set up temporarily just to hear them and see what exactly it is I've done.

That Enya remix was rattling EVERYTHING in the house. My wife was quick to comment on all of the dishes rattling. Then my son came and told me his ceiling fan was making noise from the stereo I watched a clip of Guardians 2 and some bass clips and can say for sure......I have performed an upgrade At the moment, keywords include:loud, clean, smooth, and headroom I think I'll have to wait until the wifey leaves to explore the upper limits of this rig.

I'll update with some actual listening impressions after a little bit of setup work. Right now, they are connected without any gain structure work, REW, or even Audyssey. I've added a sofa and moved my L&R forward to not have the THTs reflect any sound from them. Audyssey calibration is required, and will likely be the only thing I'll be able to adjust until I introduce a miniDSP. I still need to do a couple of 20a drops to my rack and drop the speaker wire in the walls. Also on the to-do list is get a 12 trigger setup working for the amp.
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