New Peerless 15" STW-350F with 90mm mechanical excursion - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 582 Old 04-11-2019, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
How do you figure? The BL looks to be ~0 at +/-45mm How can it get there? Inertia?
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post #542 of 582 Old 04-11-2019, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
How do you figure? The BL looks to be ~0 at +/-45mm How can it get there? Inertia?
this driver is capable of 45.5 mm of excursion before any major loss in motor strength
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post #543 of 582 Old 04-11-2019, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
How do you figure? The BL looks to be ~0 at +/-45mm How can it get there? Inertia?


You’d probably rip-off the surround too.


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post #544 of 582 Old 04-11-2019, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pnhayden View Post
There is really no good that could have come from GB posting on here.

Not true, you just need to avoid marketing, stick to facts, and have a really thick skin; Tom Danly is a good example.
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post #545 of 582 Old 04-11-2019, 11:32 PM
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Not true, you just need to avoid marketing, stick to facts, and have a really thick skin; Tom Danly is a good example.
True, but Tom Danly owns his own company. He controls all aspects of his company and is ultimately responsible for everything that is put out into the world - product design, engineering, marketing, advertising, etc.

GB is not. He has bosses to answer to and a company image to protect. What he says or does not say can impact his employer's bottom line. I understand that he wanted to get word out on the street about this new driver, but by doing so he put himself in a situation that compromised himself and his company. This is a primary reason why most employers have rules restricting what can be posted on the internet/social media regarding the company's operations. He cannot, in good service to his employer, make statements contrary to the published word of the marketing department without making it seem like Tymphany is fluffing the specs at best, and outright lying about the driver's capabilities at worst. Even though he (presumably) knows the truth about this driver, he must be in lockstep with his employer or risk being reprimanded or terminated.

I would like to think his heart was in the right place, and he was excited about sharing his new product with the world, and wanted to get an "atta boy!" from his supervisor. As it stands, GB has managed to muddy the waters because he is not able to answer the legitimate technical questions (per reasons stated above) we have had for a year now. Will this severely impact sales of the driver? Doubtful - those of us following this thread represent a small fraction of potential buyers of this driver. Marketing will win. After all, why would well respected companies like PE or Tymphany lie about their products?
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post #546 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 07:27 AM
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post #547 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dTorC4 View Post
I would like to think his heart was in the right place, and he was excited about sharing his new product with the world, and wanted to get an "atta boy!" from his supervisor. As it stands, GB has managed to muddy the waters because he is not able to answer the legitimate technical questions (per reasons stated above) we have had for a year now. Will this severely impact sales of the driver? Doubtful - those of us following this thread represent a small fraction of potential buyers of this driver. Marketing will win. After all, why would well respected companies like PE or Tymphany lie about their products?
Well, I followed the thread albeit with some skepticism, and they lost me as a potential buyer.

Word will get out, and it will crush sales of this thing, and rightfully so. I guarantee you a significant number of the sales were made on the basis of the bogus marketing. People who buy this driver know how to model something in an enclosure, and were probably doing that with 40mm or so of Xmax. I did. When you model it that way, it actually models fabulously. Instead, it's a driver that probably doesn't even stack up to a lot of car audio drivers that can be had for a fraction of the price. There are a lot of better choices for a lot less money, and a lot of far better choices for the same money. As far as I'm concerned, Peerless might as well slap a POWER ACOUSTIK label on this thing and put stickers on the box declaring "5000 WATTS MAXIMUM POWER AND 4 INCHES OF XMAX!!!!!!! FEEL THE POWER!!!!" It's a Chinese import driver with a gimmick, worth far less than the asking price if you want to compare it to the other Chinese competition. Now, if it was somehow the lowest distortion 15" on the market, well, then maybe Peerless can still come up with an argument for this thing. And here I'd hope for a XXX15 revamped and improved. Oh, well.
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post #548 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 08:34 AM
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This speaker might still serve a purpose for small sealed boxes. If the power handling works out, you may be able to use the full xmax with a small sealed box without melting the coil. Common drivers can have equal xmax but you can't use it without heating up the coil. Take a UM 15 in a 3 cube sealed box and dump enough power into it to hit xmax for an extended period and the coil might fail.
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post #549 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dTorC4 View Post
True, but Tom Danly owns his own company. He controls all aspects of his company ...

Fair point, but I'm not sure he owns Danley Sound Labs, or at least not wholly.

I'll further modify my assertion by adding that the company philosophy would have to be one of not fluffing up their spec's for marketing; which seems to apply for Danley Sound Labs.

Also JVC, at least for their projectors.

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post #550 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
How do you figure? The BL looks to be ~0 at +/-45mm How can it get there? Inertia?

If you throw the driver off a 2 story building, I am pretty sure the cone and coil will exceed +/- 45 mm when it contacts the ground, well.... at least once.

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post #551 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 10:46 AM
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Once again, aside from all of the drama on here, I am constantly being impressed with my STW's especially after replacing my iNuke 6000 with an FP14000...I will(carefully) push them just a little bit harder every time I use them over the next while to really see what they can do but I'm starting to worry about getting complaints from my neighbors(which aren't even that close) as I have them in my living room on the main floor of my house and not in a dedicated theater room in the basement. I also don't really have the proper electrical to support the FP14000's full potential so that will definitely be a limiting factor but I had them playing quite loud last night with no issues. Anyways, that's my impression of them so far. My Minidsp balanced 2x4 will be arriving next week and I will get a umik-1 eventually.

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post #552 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by matt/E View Post
Once again, aside from all of the drama on here, I am constantly being impressed with my STW's especially after replacing my iNuke 6000 with an FP14000...I will(carefully) push them just a little bit harder every time I use them over the next while to really see what they can do but I'm starting to worry about getting complaints from my neighbors(which aren't even that close) as I have them in my living room on the main floor of my house and not in a dedicated theater room in the basement. I also don't really have the proper electrical to support the FP14000's full potential so that will definitely be a limiting factor but I had them playing quite loud last night with no issues. Anyways, that's my impression of them so far. My Minidsp balanced 2x4 will be arriving next week and I will get a umik-1 eventually.
Referenced to what? What sub did you come from?

Any 15" sub with a 20mm xmax would impress in the same way.
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post #553 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by matt/E View Post
Once again, aside from all of the drama on here, I am constantly being impressed with my STW's especially after replacing my iNuke 6000 with an FP14000...I will(carefully) push them just a little bit harder every time I use them over the next while to really see what they can do but I'm starting to worry about getting complaints from my neighbors(which aren't even that close) as I have them in my living room on the main floor of my house and not in a dedicated theater room in the basement. I also don't really have the proper electrical to support the FP14000's full potential so that will definitely be a limiting factor but I had them playing quite loud last night with no issues. Anyways, that's my impression of them so far. My Minidsp balanced 2x4 will be arriving next week and I will get a umik-1 eventually.
You also said you were impressed with the horrible enclosures you built for them previously, so I can't help but take this with a large grain of salt.
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post #554 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 11:58 AM
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Referenced to what? What sub did you come from?

Any 15" sub with a 20mm xmax would impress in the same way.

Not necessarily; getting to 20mm takes significant power others might have significantly more power compression.

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post #555 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 01:02 PM
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Not necessarily; getting to 20mm takes significant power others might have significantly more power compression.
Not what I meant. If he came from a 12" $400 Bestbuy special sub, any 15 will impress.

There are a number of 15" models with a better power to weight ratio than the STW. We will have an apples to apples comparison soon to lay this one to rest.
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post #556 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 01:12 PM
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Not what I meant. If he came from a 12" $400 Bestbuy special sub, any 15 will impress.

There are a number of 15" models with a better power to weight ratio than the STW. We will have an apples to apples comparison soon to lay this one to rest.



My previous sub was a Mach 5 UXL-18 and before that I had a Paradigm Studio SUB 15 and about a dozen various other 10, 12 and 15" subs before that, never anything as cheap as a Best buy $400 special as far as I can remember.

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post #557 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 01:31 PM
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My previous sub was a Mach 5 UXL-18 and before that I had a Paradigm Studio SUB 15 and about a dozen various other 10, 12 and 15" subs before that, never anything as cheap as a Best buy $400 special as far as I can remember.
Hence why I used the word 'if'.

You have 2 STW's in different locations?
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post #558 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 01:37 PM
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Hence why I used the word 'if'.

You have 2 STW's in different locations?



That's correct. Left and right side of the room. Adding the second one made a huge difference.

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post #559 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 01:39 PM
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That's correct. Left and right side of the room. Adding the second one made a huge difference.
I noted a huge gain when I also added 2 subs at different heights. Different locations are always best. I'm glad you like the set-up.
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post #560 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 01:44 PM
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I noted a huge gain when I also added 2 subs at different heights. Different locations are always best. I'm glad you like the set-up.

I also made some riser/ isolation platforms that helped a lot as well, they keep the subs perfectly in place and greatly reduce the vibrations in my floor and throughout the house. I'm really looking forward to getting the Minidsp next week.

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post #561 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 01:55 PM
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I also made some riser/ isolation platforms that helped a lot as well, they keep the subs perfectly in place and greatly reduce the vibrations in my floor and throughout the house. I'm really looking forward to getting the Minidsp next week.
I was checking for a MINI-DSP I had so I could give it to you but I realized I already gave it away.
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post #562 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 02:00 PM
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I was checking for a MINI-DSP I had so I could give it to you but I realized I already gave it away.

Thanks, I have a balanced 2x4 that should be here on Thursday...let me know if you happen to come across a umik-1.

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post #563 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 03:09 PM
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This speaker might still serve a purpose for small sealed boxes. If the power handling works out, you may be able to use the full xmax with a small sealed box without melting the coil. Common drivers can have equal xmax but you can't use it without heating up the coil. Take a UM 15 in a 3 cube sealed box and dump enough power into it to hit xmax for an extended period and the coil might fail.
But is that really relevant? Who would use this driver like that? Plus, you can do that with most any $300 and up car audio subwoofer on program material without melting the coil.
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post #564 of 582 Old 04-12-2019, 04:23 PM
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But is that really relevant? Who would use this driver like that? Plus, you can do that with most any $300 and up car audio subwoofer on program material without melting the coil.

Things can go wrong way before burning the coil.

Power compression as I said before, and the hot coil will increase Re and lower damping which can cause the bass to get sloppy.

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post #565 of 582 Old 04-13-2019, 08:00 PM
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Things can go wrong way before burning the coil.

Power compression as I said before, and the hot coil will increase Re and lower damping which can cause the bass to get sloppy.
But again, that would take far more intense use than most music or theater systems would see, wouldn't it? The tests at Data-Bass indicate this isn't really a problem until you start hammering thousands of watts into a driver in a tiny little box for extended periods of time. So I suppose this would work for that, if you're so inclined. But even then, the poor Xmax pretty much kills it.
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post #566 of 582 Old 04-14-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by matt/E View Post
Thanks, I have a balanced 2x4 that should be here on Thursday...let me know if you happen to come across a umik-1.

I also live in Winnipeg. If you want to borrow my Umik-1 for a while when your MiniDSP comes in, let me know. REW and the calibration download are free
Edit: The cost will be posting screenshots of the measurements in this thread. I'd like to at least see a measurement from about 2 inches off the center of the cone, with no EQ.

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post #567 of 582 Old 04-14-2019, 12:14 PM
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But again, that would take far more intense use than most music or theater systems would see, wouldn't it? The tests at Data-Bass indicate this isn't really a problem until you start hammering thousands of watts into a driver in a tiny little box for extended periods of time. So I suppose this would work for that, if you're so inclined. But even then, the poor Xmax pretty much kills it.

I'm not sure.

Tom Danley gave a rule of thumb, which IIRC was compression starts at average power = 1/10th (or was it 1/4) of rated power.

And I don't remember, if he even specified, whether that was measurably and or audibly.

Would be an interesting and straightforward experiment to carry out.

I guess the best way, though more logistically challenging, would be to do it outdoors where you could keep upping the volume and moving farther away to keep the SPL constant.

Noah
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post #568 of 582 Old 04-16-2019, 06:57 PM
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PE gave me all the dirty behind the coil details at Axpona. Had to sign a NDA. Guess we're just going to have to wait until Ricci finishes his testing.

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