Fusion 8 or Fusion 6? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 43 Old 01-16-2018, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Fusion 8 or Fusion 6?

I have a 7.2.4 set up in my basement home theater with RBH R5Bi LR and RBH R56Ci Center currently. Since building a set of C-Notes for my desk and a VBSS for my home theater, I really want to build some new LCR.

I'm having a hard time deciding if 3x of the Fusion 6 would be enough for me. The 6s are more efficient than my RBHs right now which get plenty loud for me currently. Would the fusion 6s be too much of a lateral move? The price of the 6s is what is really compelling. $336 would get me 3x of the fusion 6 plus flat packs, where the fusion 8s would cost $576. Are the Fusion 8s worth the extra $240?

Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks!
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post #2 of 43 Old 01-16-2018, 03:21 PM
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I "need' to upgrade my L/R in the man cave and already have the F6CC,
so i asked around and got this response from AVS'er Raylon

"Like I said in the post, I have 4 SI HT18s nearfield and the two lonely F6's I was using as my LR pretty much had no problem keeping up with the subs using just receiver power. I actually bought my set of 1099s, Volt 6s, and Fusion 6s from the same guy. He told me out of all the speakers he has heard he liked the Fusion 6s the most. They are pretty crisp sounding and are very clean. Nothing to complain about, especially at their price point. I would say go for it. Since you have the center already you can't really go wrong."

So not knowing the size of your set-up/ room, maybe you could ask him about the size of his set-up/ room.

Saving a few hundred bucks , maybe a good deal -for that second VBBS . . .

since my space is < 100 ft^2 , finessing awesome room response is a different challenge . .

HTH
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post #3 of 43 Old 01-16-2018, 03:36 PM
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Fusion8's, they are designed by Bagby and are something special for sure. Love mine.
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post #4 of 43 Old 01-16-2018, 05:00 PM
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Both are really good speakers but the larger wave guide and larger woofer in the F8's make for a compelling reason to go with the 8's. I've been abusing a set of F8's for a couple of years and can attest that these speakers will not disappoint. But as aarose mentioned, you need to consider your room. I currently have my 8's in a room that is 14 x 18 and they have no problem going as loud as you can stand it. But db's isn't the only thing. It's the bird chirps and dispersion that makes these bookshelves shine. Great for HT and great for music. What's your room size? One other thing, if you just want to get your speaker search over, get three of the F15's. I have 3 in my basement that can lift the house off the foundation. And I love them.
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post #5 of 43 Old 01-17-2018, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I just built a 100" AT screen and have my center behind it. I will be building a false wall shortly, but I sit 9' from the screen. My room is very strangely shaped. I've attached a photo of the room with dimensions and a 3d model so you can see what it feels like. It's a big space, but the theater only occupies the front half so I am sitting pretty close to the front stage. Ceilings are 7.5' tall drop in tiles.
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post #6 of 43 Old 01-17-2018, 07:47 AM
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Fusion 6 would be a massive upgrade I imagine.

I'd go with as much speaker as possible that you can afford/can fit though still.
You don't want to look back and g o "what if" all the time. Otherwise, you'll end up with Fusion 8s and 6s.
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post #7 of 43 Old 01-17-2018, 08:35 AM
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If you can swing it, go with the F8s. If you can't, the F6s will be an upgrade.
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post #8 of 43 Old 01-17-2018, 10:23 AM
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Going in the other direction, can anyone compare Fusion-8 to Cinema-8?

I have about 2/3 the total volume to fill but about the same listening area compared to the OP. I'll be replacing B&W P6 and CDMC SE. An SPL calc shows that my B&W LCR combined will do ~105db with available amplification (Onkyo NR905) which is definitely already plenty. The Fusion-8 LCR would do ~109db, and the Cinema-8 LCR would do ~113db. Is there any reason to go with the Cinema-8 over the Fusion-8 other than added SPL?

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post #9 of 43 Old 01-17-2018, 12:49 PM
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I'll delete this if I'm hijacking your thread, but figured it's similar and I didn't want to start a new thread.



How would the fusion 6's work as surrounds for a RCL of Fusion 6's or 8's?


I was thinking about buying two Volt-6's to use as RL for a less used room to try out DIY and to hear them with the intention of upgrading the RCL of the basement setup and then moving the Volt-6's to the surround. I'm hesitant to jump head first into DIY which is why I was thinking about starting with the surround and then going from there.


I know the Volts are pretty popular surround and atmos speakers which is why I was aiming to start with those.
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post #10 of 43 Old 01-17-2018, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post
Going in the other direction, can anyone compare Fusion-8 to Cinema-8?

I have about 2/3 the total volume to fill but about the same listening area compared to the OP. I'll be replacing B&W P6 and CDMC SE. An SPL calc shows that my B&W LCR combined will do ~105db with available amplification (Onkyo NR905) which is definitely already plenty. The Fusion-8 LCR would do ~109db, and the Cinema-8 LCR would do ~113db. Is there any reason to go with the Cinema-8 over the Fusion-8 other than added SPL?
I've been thinking of adding Cinema 8s to my Fusion 8 center channel.I've noticed lately that they show out of stock on the website.

I emailed Erich earlier today, he indicated that they probably won't return to stock because of lack of reviews.

I asked about other kitsch mentioned the Fusion 8 being a direct compliment to the Fusion 8 center(makes sense)

I asked about the Cinema 10 max.He said it's a good speaker.I may go in that direction and build my own boxes.
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post #11 of 43 Old 01-17-2018, 07:29 PM
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Is the only difference in the Fusion-8 Center and Cinema-8 the waveguide orientation and port location?

Seems like every time I find a DIYSG design I want to build, it goes out of stock never to return (i.e. the Kharma-10).

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post #12 of 43 Old 01-17-2018, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post
Is the only difference in the Fusion-8 Center and Cinema-8 the waveguide orientation and port location?

Seems like every time I find a DIYSG design I want to build, it goes out of stock never to return (i.e. the Kharma-10).
The crossover point is a bit different,I think that is due to the orientation of the speaker.Everything else is the same I believe.

I know how you feel, every time I think I've found a design something doesn't work out.
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post #13 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by emiller1181 View Post
I'll delete this if I'm hijacking your thread, but figured it's similar and I didn't want to start a new thread.



How would the fusion 6's work as surrounds for a RCL of Fusion 6's or 8's?


I was thinking about buying two Volt-6's to use as RL for a less used room to try out DIY and to hear them with the intention of upgrading the RCL of the basement setup and then moving the Volt-6's to the surround. I'm hesitant to jump head first into DIY which is why I was thinking about starting with the surround and then going from there.


I know the Volts are pretty popular surround and atmos speakers which is why I was aiming to start with those.
I think a lot of us were hesitant at first. Ordered the Fusion 8's on a whim. The minute I started unpacking the flat packs and components I knew right then that DIYSG took great care - and pride in what they do. I was also reassured when I dry fit the flatpacks - everything was tight and spot on. But when I first plugged in the Fusions and gave a listen, all doubt was removed. They made me smile back then and they still make me smile. Get the Volts. Get the 6's or 8's. All are excellent.
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post #14 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 06:28 AM
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I was initially interested in the Fusion 15s, but had never heard them and was hesitant to spend that much money on a complete unknown.

I bought the Fusion 6 because they were the cheapest DiySoundGroup speakers and I figured they would give me an idea of sound quality, etc. They blew me away. This was when the Elusive 1099s were truly elusive and they were actually in stock when I was ready to order, so I got them instead of the Fusion 15s. I'm completely and totally happy with my purchases. I've also built a Stonehenge subwoofer with SI HT18.

I'll probably order either the Titans or the Max 12 this spring.

Photo of Fusion 6:


Photo of 1099:
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post #15 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 06:30 AM
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i vote for the fusion 10's so there is no second guessing later...I love mine..I think I picked the 10's over the 8's is I didnt like the look of the 8 woofer..guess looks is somewhat important to me.

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post #16 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 08:23 AM
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I was initially interested in the Fusion 15s, but had never heard them and was hesitant to spend that much money on a complete unknown.

I bought the Fusion 6 because they were the cheapest DiySoundGroup speakers and I figured they would give me an idea of sound quality, etc. They blew me away. This was when the Elusive 1099s were truly elusive and they were actually in stock when I was ready to order, so I got them instead of the Fusion 15s. I'm completely and totally happy with my purchases. I've also built a Stonehenge subwoofer with SI HT18.

I'll probably order either the Titans or the Max 12 this spring.

Photo of Fusion 6:


Oh hi Mark. (Sorry, had to do it.)


Those blue Fusion 6's are sweet looking. That's a good idea. I might go the Fusion 6 route and then use those in the living room for a little while to see how I like them.
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post #17 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 09:08 AM
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Seems like every time I find a DIYSG design I want to build, it goes out of stock never to return (i.e. the Kharma-10).
The Cinema-8's were put up on the site about 4 years ago. It took that long for a very small run of flat packs/baffles to get depleted. They rarely got built by anyone and with only 4 reviews I'm just not sure if it makes sense to do another run of them. The cabinet company doubled their minimum order, so at the current rate it would take 8 years to sell the next run. That's a gamble when there are only 4 reviews. To me it makes sense to guess why it didn't get ordered very often and make changes. But it's all a guessing game without input from other people. Too big? Too heavy? Funky look? The designer and I just weren't sure.

None of the Karma models did good because they were priced so low and people just went with the Fusions instead. There were probably 4 or 6 Karma-10's ever built, probably 4. The Karma-12 and 15 were done but never got introduced because the 8" and 10" didn't get ordered enough. Kind of a bummer.

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post #18 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 09:10 AM
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Kind of a bummer.
Especially for those of us that see the value in the lower end of the line... the only model I'm considering that's actually in stock is the HTM-10, and it's at the top end (just over actually) my budget AND too wide to be mounted between studs the way I want to. The only other option I see that's actually available is the Volt-10LX which is not really the route I want to go (I want a "real" waveguide).

There are no (or only 1 in-stock):

Fusion-8
Fusion-10
Cinema-8

If you're down to 1 kit left and don't plan on restocking, why not just put them in a clearance section so we at least know not twiddle our thumbs waiting for them to come back in stock? And if it's the baffles/cabinets that are holding you back (i.e. not the other components) why not offer a component-only kit?

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post #19 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 10:51 AM
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... Too heavy? ...
From past discussions it seems that weight is an issue with some but not others. Couldn't weight be reduced as a potential issue on many speakers by simply converting the heavier MDF flat packs to ultralight MDF? I assume there's no issue with reduced performance or this wouldn't have already been done with the HTM series and a few other models. Are there any reasons not to automatically convert all future flat packs to ultralight MDF as stocks of heavier MDF flat packs run out?
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post #20 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 01:58 PM
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The Cinema-8's were put up on the site about 4 years ago. It took that long for a very small run of flat packs/baffles to get depleted. They rarely got built by anyone and with only 4 reviews I'm just not sure if it makes sense to do another run of them. The cabinet company doubled their minimum order, so at the current rate it would take 8 years to sell the next run. That's a gamble when there are only 4 reviews. To me it makes sense to guess why it didn't get ordered very often and make changes. But it's all a guessing game without input from other people. Too big? Too heavy? Funky look? The designer and I just weren't sure.

None of the Karma models did good because they were priced so low and people just went with the Fusions instead. There were probably 4 or 6 Karma-10's ever built, probably 4. The Karma-12 and 15 were done but never got introduced because the 8" and 10" didn't get ordered enough. Kind of a bummer.
Use your discretion. I think the Cinema 8 is a great speaker from the specs/design/WAF. Especially the WAF. A Dual 8 is useful. It's a nice cheaper option for the "cinema" style speakers compared the the 1099 versions.
But we already have the alchemy tower 8 dual 8 too.
So really you're the only that knows whats going on(although as a finance/data person I'd LOVE to see the metrics of what people are buying off the site) I trust you'll continue to give us amazing speaker options.

My only suggestions are to try to summarize your explanations of the flatpack pricing/drive choices.
- You answer this quite a bit trying to explain that you could go with more expensive drives but it couold sound worse just so that people can pay more. It's confusing to explain the pricing thing, it probably eats up a lot of your time. If you could just link people to your explanation it could save you a lot of time.

Also if this is up your alley, I'm sure we could get it implemented to you, but an automated script to email people for updates on their experience/ask for a review. Maybe just twice, once at the 6 month mark and once at the 1 year mark. This may help with getting the reviews for the speakers which will in turn help people make choices.

Just my 2 cents sorry if this wasn't the right spot.
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post #21 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

There are no (or only 1 in-stock):

Fusion-8
Fusion-10
Cinema-8

If you're down to 1 kit left and don't plan on restocking, why not just put them in a clearance section so we at least know not twiddle our thumbs waiting for them to come back in stock? And if it's the baffles/cabinets that are holding you back (i.e. not the other components) why not offer a component-only kit?

I'm working on the new website which is getting moved over this weekend. There's no reason to go through the current site to tally up what's currently in stock and how many there are. The stock numbers on the site aren't accurate because if someone orders and cancels, it might not put those back in stock. Or they order and pay by check, but never send a check, etc, etc. So I put 10-20 in stock at a time. I might have 75 flat packs for a kit, but I don't buy 75 sets of crossovers, woofers, compression drivers for that kit. If I did that, there would only be about 5 kits on the whole site due to how much that would cost. Costs add up quickly. Someone thought it would be good if all kits had assembled crossover options. If there were just 20 assembled and 20 unassembled crossovers for each kit listed on the site, it would cost over $60,000....so that can't be done.


As for the Cinema-8, I think it didn't get ordered much due to it's look with the port on the bottom. I was thinking about getting some baffles made up that will put it in the same box as the new Cobalt MTM if it fits. Ports are on the back.

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post #22 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 02:10 PM
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I'm working on the new website which is getting moved over this weekend. There's no reason to go through the current site to tally up what's currently in stock and how many there are. The stock numbers on the site aren't accurate because if someone orders and cancels, it might not put those back in stock. Or they order and pay by check, but never send a check, etc, etc. So I put 10-20 in stock at a time. I might have 75 flat packs for a kit, but I don't buy 75 sets of crossovers, woofers, compression drivers for that kit. If I did that, there would only be about 5 kits on the whole site due to how much that would cost. Costs add up quickly. Someone thought it would be good if all kits had assembled crossover options. If there were just 20 assembled and 20 unassembled crossovers for each kit listed on the site, it would cost over $60,000....so that can't be done.


As for the Cinema-8, I think it didn't get ordered much due to it's look with the port on the bottom. I was thinking about getting some baffles made up that will put it in the same box as the new Cobalt MTM if it fits. Ports are on the back.
So of the Cinema-8, Fusion-8, and Fusion 10... which have 3 in stock?

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post #23 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 02:50 PM
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I've got parts for all of them. I just haven't checked stock volume on the current site recently because I'm working on the new site. I was getting low on the 8" woofers and ordered more a little bit ago. Those take 3 months for production due to the custom made cone. I don't have baffles or flat packs for the Cinema-8 because the kit almost never got ordered/reviewed and so I didn't get any more made up. The last 2 sold about 3-4 weeks ago, I might have one baffle left. As mentioned I'm going to see if the parts will fit the new Cobalt MTM box. Internal volume is good, just not sure the parts will fit on the baffle.

Kits don't completely go away to where parts aren't going to be available in the future. If any kits do come down I'd keep replacement parts for many many years.

I already talked about the Alchemy center channel in another thread. It's not going anywhere right now, I might just be low on woofers. If that design ever gets changed to the SEOS-8, I don't know if the hemp coned woofers will be used because again, only one person has made a comment on the new hemp coned woofers versus the purple coned Beta-8's. More reviews (by far) came in when they were purple. Maybe people just aren't leaving reviews anymore or maybe they liked the purple cones better. I don't know, there were only like 6 reviews on the Fusion-8 in the past 1.5 years.

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post #24 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 03:35 PM
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If that design ever gets changed to the SEOS-8, I don't know if the hemp coned woofers will be used because again, only one person has made a comment on the new hemp coned woofers versus the purple coned Beta-8's. More reviews (by far) came in when they were purple. Maybe people just aren't leaving reviews anymore or maybe they liked the purple cones better. I don't know, there were only like 6 reviews on the Fusion-8 in the past 1.5 years.
When my money isn’t all tied up in work I’ll order the hemp drivers for use in my Fusion 8 and leave a review. It took me a while to get around to building my Fusion 8s and after having heard the 8” hemp woofers in the 88 Specials (vs the original woofer 88 Specials), I really wish I held off ordering them. The new hemp woofers are fantastic sounding.

My Fusion 8s are on an old pair of thrift store speakers being used as stands. I’ve wanted to replace these stands with a pair of midbass modules but have also been considering the Maximus-12 as being an even better plan. Came really close to pulling the trigger a couple times already but i’m not really confident in my abilities to make enclosures for the top cabinet yet.

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post #25 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I've got parts for all of them. I just haven't checked stock volume on the current site recently because I'm working on the new site. I was getting low on the 8" woofers and ordered more a little bit ago. Those take 3 months for production due to the custom made cone. I don't have baffles or flat packs for the Cinema-8 because the kit almost never got ordered/reviewed and so I didn't get any more made up. The last 2 sold about 3-4 weeks ago, I might have one baffle left. As mentioned I'm going to see if the parts will fit the new Cobalt MTM box. Internal volume is good, just not sure the parts will fit on the baffle.

Kits don't completely go away to where parts aren't going to be available in the future. If any kits do come down I'd keep replacement parts for many many years.

I already talked about the Alchemy center channel in another thread. It's not going anywhere right now, I might just be low on woofers. If that design ever gets changed to the SEOS-8, I don't know if the hemp coned woofers will be used because again, only one person has made a comment on the new hemp coned woofers versus the purple coned Beta-8's. More reviews (by far) came in when they were purple. Maybe people just aren't leaving reviews anymore or maybe they liked the purple cones better. I don't know, there were only like 6 reviews on the Fusion-8 in the past 1.5 years.
I'm about to order the Fusion-8 when the new website goes up. I will definitely leave a review!
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post #26 of 43 Old 01-18-2018, 05:12 PM
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Eric, if you need anyone to test-build the Cinema-8 in the new cabinet, just let me know. I'll definitely write a review.

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post #27 of 43 Old 01-19-2018, 09:21 AM
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Two years ago I was stuck in analysis mode

The battle was between the Fusion 8, Cinema 8, 893 and Fusion 10. Determined I wanted something that could give me reference THX levels at 4 meters--the Fusion 8 and 893 got axed. Game on with the Cinema 8 VS the Fusion 10. The efficiency was about the same, they both went low enough to meet up with my subs so statistically a toss up. To "break the tie" I researched the horizontal center channel options, for the C8 it was the F8 Center and the F10 was the 1099. On paper, the F10/1099 would be the best fit for me (after I modify my furniture to fit the 1099)

I find the hemp cone 8" drivers very interesting, it would be cool to have the Fusion 8 purple VS the Fusion 8 hemp speakers head to head. At the minimum, post the purple VS hemp frequency response graphs with an explanation of the differences between the two.

The other factor is the HTM-6 with the SEOS 8" waveguide, the Fusion 8/Cinema 8 series will eventually use that part which causes one to pause. The upcoming HTM-8 (I've seen pictures!) also would suppress interest in the F8/C8 as you could get a 10" waveguide SEOS with a smaller, more managable bookshelf speaker. It didn't help that the HTM-10/12 came out over a year ago with the HTM-8 rumored to be rolling out. Since the reviews on the HTM-10/12 are so good, the HTM-8 might be the top dog in the 8" sector? I'm sure this stalled sales with the HTM-6 because human curiosity dictates the 8" version might work better for some people's applications.

Maybe at the next get together in your area, you could bring a pair of Fusion 8's, Cinema 8's, HTM-8's and 893 speakers for a comparison with fellow AVS'ers. You also have the option to throw in the Fusion 8 Center compared to the 893 Center so the crew can get an idea. For the most part, the AVS get togethers tend to be the battle of the big dogs, the F15/F12 VS 1099 VS Titans and so on. The battle of the super cars but lacking in a 4 door sedan comparison test.

My friends and buddies love the sound of my Fusion 10's--but they always ask that typical question that "normal" people ask: "Does it come in anything smaller?" You can bet when they see the 1099 horizontal center, that question will be asked much more often. At this exact point in time, I can't answer that question! It moves to wild guess, I'd say the Fusion 8 with SEOS 8 horn to "match" the Fusion 10 SEOS horn or the HTM-8 with 10" SEOS horn--take your pick. If you want the efficiency of the F10, get the dual 8" version of the F8/HTM-8 when/if available.

The new site should help here, it would be helpful if all the specs were filled in on some kits. The missing crossover points on the 1099/1299/1899, missing sensitivity/efficiency specs on some kits and frequency response measurements would help clear things up. If you don't want to clutter up the pages with too much techno-sizzle geek speak--put a link to your forum with more information than most people would want to know about the kits. The 1099 thread on AVS is almost 4,000 posts long--very interesting for a dork like me but most people would not read all that to learn that the Fusion 10 was designed after the 1099 as a TM bookshelf option for folks that need/desire smaller mains.

How critical are reviews for DIY'ers? For me, not very critical at all. In reality, if we put much stock in reviews we would not build our own speakers! Bose gets tons of fantastic reviews...so does the latest Andrew Jones chinese speakers...until the buzz wears off. I went for the Fusion 10's because of build threads, comparisons, measurements and specs of that kit and how it fit into my overall design. For me, I want the best center I can have because in my audio religious beliefs, the center is at the center of my audio solar system.

In summation, your new site, the release of the HTM-8 and maybe a comparison between your "great 8's" or F8/C8/HTM-8 and 88 Special--heck, throw in the Cobalt 8 also as an option should clear things up. I appreciate the huge selection you have for 8's. Everything from a dome tweeter on the Cobalt 8, EOS 8 waveguide on the Fusion 8, 10" SEOS waveguide on the HTM-8 to the monster SEOS 15" waveguide on the 88 Special. Keep up the good work, hope the new site clears your headaches and thanks again for putting up with us.
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post #28 of 43 Old 01-19-2018, 09:23 AM
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I didn't know there was an HTM-8 coming... when and how much?

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post #29 of 43 Old 01-19-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post

Maybe at the next get together in your area, you could bring a pair of Fusion 8's, Cinema 8's, HTM-8's and 893 speakers for a comparison with fellow AVS'ers. You also have the option to throw in the Fusion 8 Center compared to the 893 Center so the crew can get an idea. For the most part, the AVS get togethers tend to be the battle of the big dogs, the F15/F12 VS 1099 VS Titans and so on. The battle of the super cars but lacking in a 4 door sedan comparison test.

I'd love to hear or read about this comparison, specifically for the centers. Since I don't have a ton of room or a theater room, the 8" woofer speakers are right in the wheel house for me.
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post #30 of 43 Old 01-19-2018, 10:14 AM
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I didn't know there was an HTM-8 coming... when and how much?
The designer of the HTM-8 put them up on his forum next to the 10 and 12 variants. It looks like a .... smaller version of the 10's and 12's My crystal ball indicates if they are actually built and operating, maybe in the next month they might show up? Cost? At or below the pricing of the HTM-10 my psychics tell me.

The designer gave no indication of frequency response, efficiency, max SPL and all that jazz. I'd call the picture his test box.

Of course, this makes my OCD worse. Completely happy with the specs/performance/size of the Volt6 with angled flatpack. Spotted that 10" SEOS on the HTM-8 and instantly connected that my surrounds/elevation speakers could have matching waveguides if I use the 8's for surrounds.

I have a year before I worry about replacing my surrounds, the 1099 Center and those 15" sub end tables still need to be finished. It will be a great year for 8's though, the Cobalt 8 VS HTM 8 VS Fusion hemp cone 8's---the Super Bowl wishes they could be that cool All depends the flavor you want to savor and the DIYSG food cart will be pulling up shortly.
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