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post #1 of 94 Old 01-29-2018, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Time for GIANT boxes

Long story short, I have a 21" sub now and it needs a box. I also have my 4 Infinity 12's that will need a new box. Going off of memory, I believe the box for the 21" sub will need to be 91" wide, 26" deep, and 16" tall. It will be down firing (question about that to follow) with three 4" precision ports. The volume and ports match what the sub was in previously, but I wonder if there are any considerations when building such an odd shaped box? How high should I keep the bottom of the box off of the floor? Should the driver be centered in the box, or off to one end?

The infinity's are also going to be built into a giant box as well. Something along the lines of 90" wide, 12" deep, and 24" tall. @LTD02 designed the current boxes I am using for them now, so I have shot him a PM to work out the fine details of keeping all of the same performance I have now, just in one big ported box.

I have some ideas floating around for building and finishing of these boxes, but nothing is set in stone. Once I have locked in a design for both boxes I can get started making sawdust. I will probably start with the 21" first since I can put all 4 of my current boxes in the back for now and have all the bass while I build the second box. These are going to be a pain in the ass to build, but the bass is worth it

Let me know what you all think, and anything else I should consider when building/designing. Stay tuned for the builds as well!


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post #2 of 94 Old 01-29-2018, 10:56 AM
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post #3 of 94 Old 01-29-2018, 11:03 AM
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I’d go with at least 4” of clearance for the downfiring sub.... unless you want to use that bottom part as part of the port (see my post w pic on the first page or two of corrizados build).

I had a downfiring martycube and it was basically universally agreed about 4” was the min for it.


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post #4 of 94 Old 01-29-2018, 11:53 AM
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Michael Hurd has a nice build thread where he shows the results he got after stuffing a pillow in his sono tube. Its worth reading...
basically you take the height of your box times that by 2. Then take 1130FPS/ your number and that will give you the number where your standing wave is from how I took the article. Check it out double my what I'm saying

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-sonosubs.html
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post #5 of 94 Old 01-30-2018, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
I’d go with at least 4” of clearance for the downfiring sub.... unless you want to use that bottom part as part of the port (see my post w pic on the first page or two of corrizados build).

I had a downfiring martycube and it was basically universally agreed about 4” was the min for it.


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4" sounds good, I was thinking ~3 so I was close. The ports won't be down firing.


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Michael Hurd has a nice build thread where he shows the results he got after stuffing a pillow in his sono tube. Its worth reading...
basically you take the height of your box times that by 2. Then take 1130FPS/ your number and that will give you the number where your standing wave is from how I took the article. Check it out double my what I'm saying

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-sonosubs.html
Ill have to read it tonight if I get a chance. So if my box is 91" long or 89.5" inside, that comes out to 6.3128 I have no idea what that number means, but that is the math

Nobody has any input on sub placement within the box, or other thoughts for overall design/construction? Is this really as easy as building larger than normal as long as the volume is correct?


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post #6 of 94 Old 01-30-2018, 09:29 AM
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If the sub is pointing down, then my personal OCD would just have it centered within the box. No real reason it "HAS" to be that way, besides my personal OCD.

If the ports aren't downfiring, where are you planning on putting them?

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post #7 of 94 Old 01-30-2018, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
4" sounds good, I was thinking ~3 so I was close. The ports won't be down firing.









Ill have to read it tonight if I get a chance. So if my box is 91" long or 89.5" inside, that comes out to 6.3128 I have no idea what that number means, but that is the math



Nobody has any input on sub placement within the box, or other thoughts for overall design/construction? Is this really as easy as building larger than normal as long as the volume is correct?





Sean


I’m not sure on the math, by consensus is a polyfill pillow centered (on the longest dimension so horizontal for you) will cure any standing wave issue which you will definitely have with a box that long and narrow.

For my 66” x 38” x 16” box the port and sub were in the middle so couldn’t put a pillow there so did one on each end. Haven’t had any issues that I can tell.




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post #8 of 94 Old 01-30-2018, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
If the sub is pointing down, then my personal OCD would just have it centered within the box. No real reason it "HAS" to be that way, besides my personal OCD.

If the ports aren't downfiring, where are you planning on putting them?
I had originally thought about having the sub to the left (when seated and looking at it). You wont actually see the driver, so I guess it doesn't matter. However, as I thought about it centered makes more sense. I guess the standing wave thing could have some say in all of this as well?

Again, nothing set in stone yet, but I planned on then pointing out of one of the sides or possibly the front? I have no idea, but down seemed like a bad idea? I should draw some options and see what I think I may like.


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I’m not sure on the math, by consensus is a polyfill pillow centered (on the longest dimension so horizontal for you) will cure any standing wave issue which you will definitely have with a box that long and narrow.

For my 66” x 38” x 16” box the port and sub were in the middle so couldn’t put a pillow there so did one on each end. Haven’t had any issues that I can tell.




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Good to know! Your box looks great! Makes me realize how massive these boxes will be!



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post #9 of 94 Old 01-30-2018, 11:51 AM
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As mentioned I had a DIYSoundGroup Ported Cube 15 (so slot ported 15" Martycube) and had it downfiring and it worked just fine. I just thought making it downfiring would make it easier to clad in some sort of stuff to make it look like a column/piece of furniture, structural, etc.

But no right or wrong way to run the ports I'd gather as long as they are the right size and length.

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post #10 of 94 Old 01-30-2018, 05:42 PM
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What are you using for an amp?

21's aren't 12's. It's not a question of "how much do I need", more like: "all the king's horses and men + MOAR!"
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post #11 of 94 Old 01-30-2018, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I am using another iNuke 3000DSP for the 21". Eventually I would like to change out both of the iNukes for something nicer, but for now it should work just fine.

So question about the ports. If I fire them down, 4" is enough clearance from the ground? I thought you would like to see double the diameter or something like that? Also if that IS enough room, if I need to 90 them in the box how much length does that effectively add?


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post #12 of 94 Old 04-20-2018, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Bringing this back from the dead. I am sick of looking at the 21 just sitting on the floor of my office, so its time to build!!! Lets get back into the details and get everything hammered out.

Box outside dimensions
87.5" Long, 16" High (maybe taller with double baffle), and 24" Wide.

Box Volume (before bracing, driver, ports, etc.)
16.25 cubic feet
The original box (36x30x30) was 16.22 before everything.

The sub will be down firing, and the box will be 4" off of the ground. I am thinking of having the ports face down as well just for a cleaner overall look.

Now to the questions.

1. Is 4" from the face to the ground enough clearance for the ports (4" precision ports)?
2. If I add a 90 degree bend to the ports, how much length does that account for? I can cut down the straights to compensate, so what would I trim off (if any)?
3. Should the sub be placed center?
4. If sub is placed in the center of the box, do I need to worry about standing waves inside the box at all?
5. How much space is required between the back of the sub and the box?

I still need to verify my dimensions 100%. I want to keep the height down as much as possible since my center sits on top of the box and I want to keep it as low as possible so my screen is a good height. My current boxes are 16" so I would be raising the screen 4" to compensate for the feet under the new box. I also need to be sure that 24" is enough room for the sub, I think it is but will be close. That is all I have for now. I want to get started on this box ASAP so I really need to iron out all of these little details so I start building. Anything else you guys can think of that I missed, or need to consider, or whatever just let me know!

Thanks,
Sean
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post #13 of 94 Old 04-20-2018, 03:23 PM
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IMO

1. Is 4" from the face to the ground enough clearance for the ports (4" precision ports)?
Yes, although even this close you MAY have some boundary effect from the floor, which could SLIGHTLY lower your tune (I would guess the effect would be 1Hz or less). Which is Not a problem.
2. If I add a 90 degree bend to the ports, how much length does that account for? I can cut down the straights to compensate, so what would I trim off (if any)?
Bends don't ADD any length, you just have to measure along the center line of the port.
3. Should the sub be placed center?
I don't think it matters too much. If it's behind your seating, I would face the sub toward the seats.
4. If sub is placed in the center of the box, do I need to worry about standing waves inside the box at all?
I think you'll have to consider standing waves no matter where you place the sub in the box. Not too sure though.
5. How much space is required between the back of the sub and the box?
If the sub's coil has a vent (small hole in the back of the magnet), just enough space for the vent - say at least 1/2 to 1 inch. Not much.
If there's no vent, no space.

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post #14 of 94 Old 04-21-2018, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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IMO

1. Is 4" from the face to the ground enough clearance for the ports (4" precision ports)?
Yes, although even this close you MAY have some boundary effect from the floor, which could SLIGHTLY lower your tune (I would guess the effect would be 1Hz or less). Which is Not a problem.
2. If I add a 90 degree bend to the ports, how much length does that account for? I can cut down the straights to compensate, so what would I trim off (if any)?
Bends don't ADD any length, you just have to measure along the center line of the port.
3. Should the sub be placed center?
I don't think it matters too much. If it's behind your seating, I would face the sub toward the seats.
4. If sub is placed in the center of the box, do I need to worry about standing waves inside the box at all?
I think you'll have to consider standing waves no matter where you place the sub in the box. Not too sure though.
5. How much space is required between the back of the sub and the box?
If the sub's coil has a vent (small hole in the back of the magnet), just enough space for the vent - say at least 1/2 to 1 inch. Not much.
If there's no vent, no space.
Thanks for the reply! So it sounds like I can add a 90 and point the ports down which will give me a cleaner overall look. The box has to go in the front of the room under the screen. That means I need to keep it as short as possible so the driver can only face up or down without gaining too much height. Facing up isnt really an option though so I have to have it down firing which means I will gain 4" from my current setup. The driver is vented in the back. Going through possible configurations to get the volume right I think staying with the 16" height is best. Going shorter will add quite a lot to the length to make it up.

I am going to check a few more things, but it is looking like final dimensions will be the 87.5x24x16 I said earlier. I am really not sure how I want to do the ports. I know from testing with my current boxes that the orientation of the ports plays a big part in the overall performance of the system. I was able to get my response much flatter by pointing my ports in specific ways on my subs. With this monster of a box though I pretty much have to make a choice on what I think may work best and look best and it is what it is.


Sean
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post #15 of 94 Old 04-21-2018, 08:23 AM
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What about just going open baffle?


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What about just going open baffle?


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post #17 of 94 Old 04-24-2018, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Well guys, if there are no objections I guess I will go ahead and get started on this monster! I am going to have the main pieces cut by a local yard. I have heard nothing but good things about them, and it makes my life a lot easier since I am limited on space and the wife HATES MDF dust. I have a new dust collector for my router that hopefully will do a good job. I am going to router a rabbet along the edges of the pieces to give them more area for glue, as well as to help keep everything square. I have done this on a few boxes now and it makes it a lot nicer but creates a ton of dust.

Anyway, I will probably do a quick drawing of the box if I get time. I will toss that up on here for you guys if/when I do. The plan is to stop by the lumber place early next week to get everything on order. I guess it takes a day or two to get it all cut to spec. As soon as I get it all back I should be diving right into assembly In the meantime I need to clean up my garage so I have some space to work on this monster. Right now the car project is taking up most of my space out there, but now that the engine is in the car its a good time to jump on this before the engine comes back out.

Watch for updates soon fellas!


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post #18 of 94 Old 04-24-2018, 07:28 AM
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How about something like this? Instead of using legs to raise it up off the floor, the ports become the legs. That would waste less space and keep the ports free and clear.

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post #19 of 94 Old 04-24-2018, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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How about something like this? Instead of using legs to raise it up off the floor, the ports become the legs. That would waste less space and keep the ports free and clear.

That is an interesting concept. I don't think it would really save me any space since the box needs to be the same volume, and I still need the same height (both for the sub inside the box, and the sub to the ground). The ports are my least favorite part for this whole build. Like I said, I already have the precision ports so I feel like I should use them, but my OCD isn't happy with any of the options for them.

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post #20 of 94 Old 04-25-2018, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
Well guys, if there are no objections I guess I will go ahead and get started on this monster! I am going to have the main pieces cut by a local yard. I have heard nothing but good things about them, and it makes my life a lot easier since I am limited on space and the wife HATES MDF dust. I have a new dust collector for my router that hopefully will do a good job. I am going to router a rabbet along the edges of the pieces to give them more area for glue, as well as to help keep everything square. I have done this on a few boxes now and it makes it a lot nicer but creates a ton of dust.

Anyway, I will probably do a quick drawing of the box if I get time. I will toss that up on here for you guys if/when I do. The plan is to stop by the lumber place early next week to get everything on order. I guess it takes a day or two to get it all cut to spec. As soon as I get it all back I should be diving right into assembly In the meantime I need to clean up my garage so I have some space to work on this monster. Right now the car project is taking up most of my space out there, but now that the engine is in the car its a good time to jump on this before the engine comes back out.

Watch for updates soon fellas!


Sean

At 89.5", the box resonance will be around 76 Hz.

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post #21 of 94 Old 04-26-2018, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I whipped up a quick drawing for you guys to get an idea of what this will look like.



It is kind of hard to tell, but there will be four 4" ports (two on each side) that will be 20" long. According to mtg90 that should give me a port tune of about 16hz. I have my cut sheets ready, just need to figure out the logistics of getting all my material.


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I whipped up a quick drawing for you guys to get an idea of what this will look like.



It is kind of hard to tell, but there will be four 4" ports (two on each side) that will be 20" long. According to mtg90 that should give me a port tune of about 16hz. I have my cut sheets ready, just need to figure out the logistics of getting all my material.


Sean


You know I am a little disappointed that this is taking so long......
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post #23 of 94 Old 04-26-2018, 03:39 PM
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At 89.5", the box resonance will be around 76 Hz.


That's going to be a problem. If he uses staggered braces and fill, would that help?
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post #24 of 94 Old 04-26-2018, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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You know I am a little disappointed that this is taking so long......
That makes two of us! I could explain why, but nobody cares BTW, is this Ralph?

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That's going to be a problem. If he uses staggered braces and fill, would that help?
Well, I think I am going to be 87.5" which will change it I am sure. I am sure the problem will still remain though so what do I do to fix it regardless?


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post #25 of 94 Old 04-26-2018, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
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You know I am a little disappointed that this is taking so long......
That makes two of us! I could explain why, but nobody cares [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] BTW, is this Ralph?


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You know it! Been a few years or 10... I am lurking around trying to figure out my build! It was kinda funny to see your post. How do we get ourselves into this stuff???
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post #26 of 94 Old 04-26-2018, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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You know it! Been a few years or 10... I am lurking around trying to figure out my build! It was kinda funny to see your post. How do we get ourselves into this stuff???
Hell yeah man! It has been about 10, which is crazy! How is everything going?

Whats up with your build? I am going to assume its something crazy. I don't know how we get into all this ****, but I need a bigger bank account for it all

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post #27 of 94 Old 04-26-2018, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
That makes two of us! I could explain why, but nobody cares BTW, is this Ralph?







Well, I think I am going to be 87.5" which will change it I am sure. I am sure the problem will still remain though so what do I do to fix it regardless?





Sean


I don't know other than changing the box. I guess I would try to use fill but absorbing 70hz is not easy
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post #28 of 94 Old 05-01-2018, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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OK guys, I would like to go get the wood ordered up today after work. Is anyone other than Corradizo concerned about the box resonance? I honestly don't have a lot of options for the box design to get the volume I need. I have never really had to deal with this issue before either, so I am a bit worried about spending the time and money to build this just for it to sound like crap.

Sean
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post #29 of 94 Old 05-01-2018, 10:53 AM
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post #30 of 94 Old 05-01-2018, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Current design is
87.5" Wide, 24" Deep, 16" Tall
16.24 Cubic Feet
Four 4" precision ports with an additional 12" (each port being 20")
Tune is 17hz


Sean
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