32 Inch Subwoofer Driver Dilemma - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 182 Old 02-18-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
You should order one and report back how it works out.


Poor form in a "science" forum. Let's leave the "I know because I know" and deal with science for the moment. Besides a gut feeling, why do you believe the WoW 32 is a poor choice for up/down firing? The only thing that matters is Mms and suspension compliance. I suppose you can argue 2% sag is too much but that is well below the conventional wisdom of 5% or less.

Just because a driver is on the extreme side doesn't mean it doesn't follow the standard rules. However, things do sometimes act differently at the extremes, so if you feel this is the case point to why besides a gut feeling.
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post #62 of 182 Old 02-18-2018, 03:53 PM
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I really shouldn't comment here, but I will...

OP, please be careful. What you see at that site is a 24" driver, not a 32. If the firm is worth any salt, they will provide you with needed specs so you can make an informed decision. Many times, that is not possible as a lot of Chinese companies don't really put much care into anything they build. Take this from someone who has been down that road.

If however, you are looking at a 24" driver and not a 32", SI's will blow that thing out of the water. That, and you will receive actual support if something goes wrong. There is no such thing as warranty with Chinese firms.

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post #63 of 182 Old 02-18-2018, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PsychoM3 View Post
Poor form in a "science" forum. Let's leave the "I know because I know" and deal with science for the moment. Besides a gut feeling, why do you believe the WoW 32 is a poor choice for up/down firing? The only thing that matters is Mms and suspension compliance. I suppose you can argue 2% sag is too much but that is well below the conventional wisdom of 5% or less.

Just because a driver is on the extreme side doesn't mean it doesn't follow the standard rules. However, things do sometimes act differently at the extremes, so if you feel this is the case point to why besides a gut feeling.
Im not saying that at all. I honestly have no idea what that heavy cone and suspension will do after years of sitting there up or down. The suspension is not stiff, you can move it up and down with 1 finger and the cone is one of the heaviest on any driver on the market anywhere.

You could be 100% right and it may be awesome for years but it moves very easily, i just cant see nothing happening to it over time with that much weight over such a large area. Thats just my experience with both the 32s as I was the one that tested them both.

I could be 100% wrong as well lol

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post #64 of 182 Old 02-18-2018, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Im not saying that at all. I honestly have no idea what that heavy cone and suspension will do after years of sitting there up or down. The suspension is not stiff, you can move it up and down with 1 finger and the cone is one of the heaviest on any driver on the market anywhere.

You could be 100% right and it may be awesome for years but it moves very easily, i just cant see nothing happening to it over time with that much weight over such a large area. Thats just my experience with both the 32s as I was the one that tested them both.

I could be 100% wrong as well lol

First, the term of art sag in regards to up or down firing has nothing to do with a driver over time, it is instant. Over time if/when the surround degrades there is a negative impact on the driver no matter which vector gravity is acting on it.

Sag in regards to whether or not a specific driver can/should be used in an up/down firing attitude is how much the cone moves from its "normal" position when moved from standing on its side to facing up or down. The conventional wisdom is when the sag is less than 5% of Xmax it is acceptable for up/down firing use. The fact the cone is "heavy" and easy to move when you poke it doesn't really mean anything in terms of the actual math. You don't need to guess the needed information is in the T/S parameters. You simply plus them into the sag formula and you get the percentage of sag. It should be noted that if a driver is very close to 5% sag the T/S parameters should be tested again after full break-in since the driver will become slightly more compliant.

The reason I took issue with what you posted is that you stated the driver was not suitable for down firing, though maybe for upfiring. I wanted to make it clear that based on the T/S parameters it is well within the norm for use in those applications. If you have any other data to back up your premise I am happy to hear it.
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post #65 of 182 Old 02-18-2018, 05:48 PM
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I mean if your going to get one might as well just go for the Alphard Audio Deaf Bonce 32" pretty sure their russian subs hold most of the world records.

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post #66 of 182 Old 02-18-2018, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoM3 View Post
First, the term of art sag in regards to up or down firing has nothing to do with a driver over time, it is instant. Over time if/when the surround degrades there is a negative impact on the driver no matter which vector gravity is acting on it.

Sag in regards to whether or not a specific driver can/should be used in an up/down firing attitude is how much the cone moves from its "normal" position when moved from standing on its side to facing up or down. The conventional wisdom is when the sag is less than 5% of Xmax it is acceptable for up/down firing use. The fact the cone is "heavy" and easy to move when you poke it doesn't really mean anything in terms of the actual math. You don't need to guess the needed information is in the T/S parameters. You simply plus them into the sag formula and you get the percentage of sag. It should be noted that if a driver is very close to 5% sag the T/S parameters should be tested again after full break-in since the driver will become slightly more compliant.

The reason I took issue with what you posted is that you stated the driver was not suitable for down firing, though maybe for upfiring. I wanted to make it clear that based on the T/S parameters it is well within the norm for use in those applications. If you have any other data to back up your premise I am happy to hear it.
Well then good news, the driver is suitable for downfiring.

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post #67 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Maybe someone smarter than I am can enlighten me. If the op's wife doesn't like bass and he has no intention of pushing the subs, why are we discussing 32" and 24" drivers

Because we're in the DIY section of AVS.
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post #68 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 10:46 AM
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Because we're in the DIY section of AVS.
Ummm........Thanks. Not sure how I missed that.
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post #69 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Maybe someone smarter than I am can enlighten me. If the op's wife doesn't like bass and he has no intention of pushing the subs, why are we discussing 32" and 24" drivers
Because we can.

Besides... maybe he wants a divorce?
We can only warn, ...or assist... in that effort.
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post #70 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 11:19 AM
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Because we can.

Besides... maybe he wants a divorce?
We can only warn, ...or assist... in that effort.
Thanks

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post #71 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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No, has nothing to do with design. Even if you make dual opposed with 32" your house will rattle like crazy at high SPL. And rattling cant be helped if you are living in paper house with everything not nailed to floor. Watching movie at reference levels will rattle your house...wethere you had 32" sub or few 15" subs...if you can't handle it (or your house), no really point in going big.
More a matter that the basement is mine, but if I start shaking the floor upstairs, my wife might thinks of that as an invasion into her territory, and she has the upstairs no nice that I try not to mess it up that much. Watching the videos really has me wondering, but they obviously had it turned all the way up. I wonder what it would produce if it were at a lower relaxed level. If you got the same mix of frequencies, it might be quite nice.
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post #72 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PsychoM3 View Post
Poor form in a "science" forum. Let's leave the "I know because I know" and deal with science for the moment. Besides a gut feeling, why do you believe the WoW 32 is a poor choice for up/down firing? The only thing that matters is Mms and suspension compliance. I suppose you can argue 2% sag is too much but that is well below the conventional wisdom of 5% or less.

Just because a driver is on the extreme side doesn't mean it doesn't follow the standard rules. However, things do sometimes act differently at the extremes, so if you feel this is the case point to why besides a gut feeling.
I have nothing but a gut feeling, and really nothing more than curiosity to go on. Your reference to science is apt because just getting one and then saying, "wow, that great" would be a pointless exercise. The purpose of doing this would be to test and measure it and then share the results. Those tests and measurements would be meaningless if they were done in an inadequate or inappropriate enclosure, so part of my question is whether there would be an interest in helping me make sure that things were done properly. I had been planning to use a Speaker Power amplifier, and their largest plate amp is 6000 watts for $1,249. They have an 8000 watt rack amp for $2,350.

The Chinese company also also has a 32 inch with neodymium magnet that is rated at 3000 watts. This one has a Vas of 902 and the other does not say. My TV room is basically 15x24, so I have no need for a 32 inch subwoofer. The attraction is that I can get a pair inexpensively and play mad scientist.
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post #73 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 01:12 PM
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More a matter that the basement is mine, but if I start shaking the floor upstairs, my wife might thinks of that as an invasion into her territory, and she has the upstairs no nice that I try not to mess it up that much. Watching the videos really has me wondering, but they obviously had it turned all the way up. I wonder what it would produce if it were at a lower relaxed level. If you got the same mix of frequencies, it might be quite nice.
Contrary to the sarcastic answers that were given to my question, is there a reason, other than the cool factor you're considering a 32" sub? I can see it shaking the crap out of the upstairs floor even at moderate listening levels. Are you trying to achieve single digit frequency? Again, I'm not being facetious....just curious. Hell I'll be interested in how it works out if indeed you actually order one of the China 32s

**edit** It seems as if you completed your above post just as I was writing mine. You answered my question You have certainly peaked my interest.

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post #74 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 01:25 PM
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I have nothing but a gut feeling, and really nothing more than curiosity to go on. Your reference to science is apt because just getting one and then saying, "wow, that great" would be a pointless exercise. The purpose of doing this would be to test and measure it and then share the results. Those tests and measurements would be meaningless if they were done in an inadequate or inappropriate enclosure, so part of my question is whether there would be an interest in helping me make sure that things were done properly. I had been planning to use a Speaker Power amplifier, and their largest plate amp is 6000 watts for $1,249. They have an 8000 watt rack amp for $2,350.

The Chinese company also also has a 32 inch with neodymium magnet that is rated at 3000 watts. This one has a Vas of 902 and the other does not say. My TV room is basically 15x24, so I have no need for a 32 inch subwoofer. The attraction is that I can get a pair inexpensively and play mad scientist.
A long as you go in with the idea that it is in the interest of "science" and in essence be willing to lose the money then go for it. The one guy that bought the 24" from China seems to have lucked out. The next thing is to make sure you are willing to devote the needed size for the driver. My guess is this driver will want a bigger box than the higher dollar "branded" 32s.

You will get help modeling an appropriate box and you will be able to get accurate T/S parameters with the Woofer tester.

Not sure I would suggest this for your first project but if you are willing to learn and work there is no reason you can't do it.
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post #75 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 01:57 PM
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More a matter that the basement is mine, but if I start shaking the floor upstairs, my wife might thinks of that as an invasion into her territory, and she has the upstairs no nice that I try not to mess it up that much. Watching the videos really has me wondering, but they obviously had it turned all the way up. I wonder what it would produce if it were at a lower relaxed level. If you got the same mix of frequencies, it might be quite nice.
Two things that contribute most to tactile "disturbances" are SPL and port tune (and proximity to same, but ignore that for a while). Behringer B1200D is a 12" midbass "sub" that looks like a toy, but I can make all my dishes in kitchen dance with it. Why? Well, because I turn it up to slam at 120 dB. If i turn it down to 110, kitchen is safe. If i drop it to 100, everything is safe. Same story with that 32" monster. Normal listening levels...all good, concert levels, everything dances.
Now regarding port tune. Behringer is tuned to around 40 Hz. Around tune decay times are longer, frequency decays slower and "lingers" longer in room and particle velocity is high. All items in house that are excited by that resonance will rattle much more then with differently tuned sub, CHEST SLAM will be stronger then with different tuned sub at identical SPL. If sub is tuned for example at 20 Hz, something else might resonate more, e.g. walls might flex more. But, in sealed 32" there is no tune. Primary source of tactile is high SPL and quite high and usable FR <20 Hz. So yeah, not only you can avoid earthquakes with moderate listening, but you could also, if you wish, use some surgical EQ to kill frequencies that cause most resonances.

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post #76 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 05:49 PM
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[quote=eyecatcher127;55716568]I mean if your going to get one might as well just go for the Alphard Audio Deaf Bonce 32" pretty sure their russian subs hold most of the world records.


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post #77 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eyecatcher127 View Post
I mean if your going to get one might as well just go for the Alphard Audio Deaf Bonce 32" pretty sure their russian subs hold most of the world records.

https://youtu.be/t8wltvdjoJ4
They have subwoofers? I didn't notice.
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post #78 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 06:54 PM
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This might be a chance for trying bipolar open baffle subs
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Originally Posted by Steve Kuester View Post
Because we're in the DIY section of AVS.
The reason for me at least is that I wonder what a 32 inch subwoofer would do if not pushed. This comes back to what got me started on subwoofers. Let me put is this way. The SI HS-24 Mk II in a ported enclosure calls for 16-20 cubic feet of air. At the low end, that would be a 2x2 box 4 feet high. Or a cube 30 inches on a side. That of course is net space, and the driver is 0.75 cubic feet. How many people do you think have made enclosures that large? Nick at SI told me none that he knows of. Of course, if you wanted 2 of them, you would be looking at 23-40 cubic feet, which was the genesis of my 3 foot wide by six feet tall tube (42.4 cubic feet).

SVS has an older PB12 Plus model that has 12-inch driver and an 800 watt RMS amplifier. The exterior measurements of the box total 6.7 cubic feet and it weights 127 pounds. SVS has a current PB 16 Ultra model that has a 16 inch driver and a 1500 watt RMS amplifier. Its exterior measurements total 8.9 cubic feet, and it weights 174.5 pounds.

This makes the PB16 enclosure 33 percent larger in volume and 37 percent larger in weight. It has 87.5 percent more power, and 78 percent more surface area (less actually because I am using the 16 gross). I should mention that both have a single front firing driver and 3 front firing ports. It seems to me that what is structurally the same subwoofer should require a larger enclosure at the 16 inch size.

It is entirely possible that I am missing something. I am not claiming to have the answers, just questions, and they are my own personal questions. But I do know that as driver size has increased over time, enclosure size has not kept pace, and I can imagine that is a matter of customer acceptance, not acoustics. And if I am going to make something for myself, it is going to acoustically as good as I can make it.
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post #80 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Because we can.

Besides... maybe he wants a divorce?
We can only warn, ...or assist... in that effort.
Tell you what I have noticed. My previous speakers were some Paradigm Millenia with 4.5 inch woofers. They sounded nice, but it always seemed like they were training to fill the room with noise and I was straining to hear them. Those have been replaced with a Klipsch set that has 8 woofers in every speaker, and now the sound does seems to feel the room in a very comfortable way. It actually is quite a bit louder, but you don't notice because it is so natural. The plan is to find some Klipsch CF-4 that have 2 12-inch woofers and compression drivers. I have only heard a pair for a few minutes, but wow. And that will bring things up another level, where it is louder, but people don't mind. Of course, my plans were shredded when someone showed me the JTR Noesis 215RT. Not exactly fair.

My hope is to accomplish with a subwoofer the same thing that I did with the speakers. If I crank the volume a quarter turn on my receiver, the sound is painful. Even with 8 inch woofers, I am driving them at a fraction of their potential. But I still get the fullness and detail that was missing. When I turn my old 12-inch sub down, parts of it just disappear. Reminds me of the old Paradigms. So maybe a larger driver would still fill the room with pleasant bass but still leave hair intact and in place.

This is all based on my subjective impressions, and it may just be wrong. But if it is right, then an incremental increase in driver size is not going to tell me much, and I need 24 or even the crazy 32. I should add that I am inherently suspicious of calculations and formulas when they venture into unknown territory. They may be mathematically correct but not consistent with my subjective impressions. So off the cliff we go.
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post #81 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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This might be a chance for trying bipolar open baffle subs
Open baffle is definitely part of the experiment. I have read so many people saying that they love the bass of open baffle subs, but that they fall off too high. Maybe a 32 inch sub would fix that. The idea would be get a bookmatched pair of some nice wood, something like this


Would be an interesting experiment.

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post #82 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 08:00 PM
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That looks like monkey pod, a 32” subwoofer will turn a 10” slab of monkey pod into mulch lol.

It looks awesome though!


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post #83 of 182 Old 02-19-2018, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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@Trimlock that actually was a walnut burl, but it is a very small piece. A full slab like that would be fun. Your comment about monkey pod has me wondering. It is one of my favorite woods because of the crotches, but I cannot see how a subwoofer would touch it. It has a Janka harness of 900, which is nothing like Ipe at 3600 or even hard maple at 1450. But it is way above Douglas Fir at 600 and softwoods in general. If it really would not hold up to a big subwoofer driver, then I really appreciate the information. Easy enough to get a much harder wood, but not so easy to worth with.

My idea for open baffle would start with very large bookmatched slabs 2-3 inches thick so they could be cut down for acoustic reasons. I have never seen a picture of that concept. If this is something that you know about, I would welcome any experience that you might wish to share.

An OK I don't even know what this is, but I want it, and I am sure if would make a great open baffle something.

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post #84 of 182 Old 02-20-2018, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Racerryan View Post
Hair trick or get girls to climb in the back of your truck trick
Both.

FYI: Their hair moving around has nothing to do with loudness though.

That is just gross amounts of air-velocity.
Mostly caused by tuning too high and/or having too much displacement for the port-area, and/or playing bass vastly below tuning where the port unloads.

In an extreme case, a window can act like a port with a port-length of near-zero,
and if you displace enough air, the whole car becomes the "100hz tuned" ported box, you'll get high air-velocity coming out the window at 30hz or whatever.

Just like making your muffler more attention-grabbing isn't gonna double the horse power to your wheels or make your car go double the speed. (Not even close...)

What is worse of all, is that if you use a mic to measure the SPL,
the WIND will cause artificially high SPL readings. Similar to blowing into a REW mic, your mouth isn't 160db, but it reads 160db etc.

That's why when you take a reading of the SPL in or near a port, you should put the mic in a zip lock bag, it acts like a wind-block and you'll get a more proper reading. If the plastic bag is moving lots, perhaps put some paper towel or toilet paper in there, to stop the plastic from banging against the mic capsule; as tapping against the mic will also cause SPL to increase in some cases!

Or just use a solid-state mic, like a Term-Lab or SPL-LAB.

The world-record is held by Team Hal, achieved in 2015-2016 at 184-185db.
They use an array of Soundigital amps and HammerTech woofers:
http://www.lojadosomautomotivo.com.b...evolution.html
https://www.shokindustries.com/collections/hammertech
They don't measure SQ. It doesn't have to have any SQ at all, it just has to be LOUD for 1-3 seconds or so.

They probably send 250-500kW into them.
The brand name of the woofers doesn't even really matter at this point, as they are all gonna get flash-smoked no matter what. (Anything less... is less SPL. )

If you got teleported to the surface of the sun, you'd get flash-smoked too... We all get flash-smoked down here.

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post #85 of 182 Old 02-20-2018, 12:34 AM
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If you have $1000 to burn, try the random china woofers you have found.
If you can't afford to randomly burn a $1000, then don't do it...

No risk, no reward.
But just because you took a risk, doesn't mean you'll be rewarded...

Just like the CA-30 120V china-amplifier I bought. All-risk, no-reward.
It works, but it only produces about a 1/4 of the power it was claimed to.
Maybe my CA-30 can be "repaired" to work as expected, or maybe not...
Maybe I should have bought the 240V version, or maybe just stuck with a FP14k.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
If you have $1000 to burn, try the random china woofers you have found.
If you can't afford to randomly burn a $1000, then don't do it...

No risk, no reward.
But just because you took a risk, doesn't mean you'll be rewarded...

Just like the CA-30 120V china-amplifier I bought. All-risk, no-reward.
It works, but it only produces about a 1/4 of the power it was claimed to.
Maybe my CA-30 can be "repaired" to work as expected, or maybe not...
Maybe I should have bought the 240V version, or maybe just stuck with a FP14k.
I am in a position where I could afford to spend $1,000 and get junk, and it would not affect me in any significant way. In that respect, I get the feeling that I am more fortunate than some here, but I still hate to be stupid with money or anything else. I do not in any respect need a 32 inch subwoofer for my 25x15 foot room. The stupid PB2 Plus already shakes things more than is welcome unless the gain is turned almost all the way down. The attraction for me is purely about whether I could learn or figure something out that would help other people. I get high on learning just about anything new, but a project like this would require a lot of help from other people, and I would want to return that with some useful information.

Based on our interactions here, I have the greatest respect for your knowledge and judgment in these matters. I don't know if we are headed towards 32 in drivers being normal, but the 24 inch ones seem to be creeping in. Maybe it makes sense to let the Seatons of the world figure it out. He sure knows a lot more than I ever will, and I have to believe that he knows what is going on in the rest of the world.

The other question I have is whether it makes sense for people like the members here to consider direct imports from China. Lots or people making and/or selling them, and cannot find anything about the quality. For the price of 2 32-inch drivers, I could get a pile of 15 and 18 inch ones. I would need to find people to help evaluate them, but it might be interesting.

Oddly enough, a part of this is that I have spent much money over there for about 5 years, and I am concerned that if I am gone too long, I will lose my connections. Any thoughts or suggestions you might have would be very welcome.
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post #87 of 182 Old 02-20-2018, 12:55 AM
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32 Inch Subwoofer Driver Dilemma

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Originally Posted by SeattleDavis View Post
@Trimlock that actually was a walnut burl, but it is a very small piece. A full slab like that would be fun. Your comment about monkey pod has me wondering. It is one of my favorite woods because of the crotches, but I cannot see how a subwoofer would touch it. It has a Janka harness of 900, which is nothing like Ipe at 3600 or even hard maple at 1450. But it is way above Douglas Fir at 600 and softwoods in general. If it really would not hold up to a big subwoofer driver, then I really appreciate the information. Easy enough to get a much harder wood, but not so easy to worth with.



My idea for open baffle would start with very large bookmatched slabs 2-3 inches thick so they could be cut down for acoustic reasons. I have never seen a picture of that concept. If this is something that you know about, I would welcome any experience that you might wish to share.



An OK I don't even know what this is, but I want it, and I am sure if would make a great open baffle something.





Wow that looks dope! What ever it is old, you can see how it was put together to make the slabs, the wavy’ness looks like mesquite but the deep dark lines look like maple and the roughed up color looks like walnut with a bit of oak for color.

Anyways using a hardwood for open baffle, sorry couldn’t help you there. From my understanding the baffle will take quite a bit more beating from open versus a closed enclosure. My recommendation would be to use a hard wood slab that is backed by something tough like MDF, have the drivers attached to the MDF and use the wood purely as a veneer like piece.

At 2-3 inches thick you could be fine but the area where the driver is attached will be the fail piece. On top of that with strong woofers (such as a 32”) you can still crack the hardwood along weak points. MDF backing would hold it together and prevent it from cracking (but add to the weight).

Sorry the piece on the right looked like 2 book matched pieces, I can see it isn’t.


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Wow that looks dope! What ever it is old, you can see how it was put together to make the slabs, the wavy’ness looks like mesquite but the deep dark lines look like maple and the roughed up color looks like walnut with a bit of oak for color.

Anyways using a hardwood for open baffle, sorry couldn’t help you there. From my understanding the baffle will take quite a bit more beating from open versus a closed enclosure. My recommendation would be to use a hard wood slab that is backed by something tough like MDF, have the drivers attached to the MDF and use the wood purely as a veneer like piece.

At 2-3 inches thick you could be fine but the area where the driver is attached will be the fail piece. On top of that with strong woofers (such as a 32”) you can still crack the hardwood along weak points. MDF backing would hold it together and prevent it from cracking (but add to the weight).


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Ha ha, I thought I was gold with any slab. Need to dig into this and find out. I sent a message to the company with that on their website and asked them what it was. If they answer, I will PM you. I just found an open baffle subwoofer board and will check in with them on the wood. Why does everything have to be MDF these days?
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post #89 of 182 Old 02-20-2018, 01:59 AM
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Based on our interactions here, I have the greatest respect for your knowledge and judgment in these matters. I don't know if we are headed towards 32 in drivers being normal, but the 24 inch ones seem to be creeping in. For the price of 2 32-inch drivers, I could get a pile of 15 and 18 inch ones. I would need to find people to help evaluate them, but it might be interesting.
There seems to be two camps.

Those that want the best value for the cheapest possible price. The types of people that eat up uber-cheap SI HT-18's like hot cakes, but yet still complain that they are "expensive" or have "less then spectacular results". To the point of nearly bankrupting the series from SI.
[Lots of these people.]

Then there is the camp that is going for sheer/spl/bq/sq or bragging rights. Cost no object (or less of an object) types. The WOW-32 and SI-24 or RF-19 and LMS-18 types.
[A rare few.]

So unless you can prove that it is the "best value per $" or simply "the best", then I'd figure that most people simply "won't care".

and even then, they will DEMAND tech support from you and BQ inspection services (and for you to eat the costs.) They won't want to order it direct from china, it is seen as "too much risk", and they will want free shipping or cheap shipping.

That is assuming you want to get into the audio business.

If you were just getting into it for eval-purposes, I don't think too many would care about the results. Or maybe they would, but would never buy any themselves. (a few might, of course...)

Nothing is stopping a crowd fund of 50 SAB-24's today or 8 months ago when I posted about it. It just requires somebody to either "make it their business" or at the very least... organize a sea-shipping and re-distribution network/warehouse.

The FTW-21 being $840 and the SI-24 being $699.
If it costs more than that, nobody will want it.
(Although the SAB-24 is closer to the performance to that of the SHS-24, which goes for $2500)

Nobody has (yet) put their neck out and done either. Which I don't blame them for, it's super high risk and super costly, and thus a high chance of failure and public ridicule for if/when it fails.

Perhaps someone is (at the very least) waiting for me to test the beast in an actual box first. [Which I will eventually get to, before I die... ]

For the brief time I've had with the SAB-24 in free-air, I can say it is definitely better than the 21's I have, it could very well be the best driver I own and WILL EVER own.

(That is assuming china can maintain consistent BQ at high volumes. That's a big *IF* though...)

I can't see myself going beyond 24's any time soon, if ever.
They are too big for my current room. It's just not gonna work with my layout.
I've exceeded the capacity of this room as-is.
If I didn't have a decent system already or a bigger room or if I was Bill Gates, it would be an entirely different book...

Last edited by BassThatHz; 02-20-2018 at 02:05 AM.
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post #90 of 182 Old 02-20-2018, 02:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
There seems to be two camps.

Those that want the best value for the cheapest possible price. The types of people that eat up uber-cheap SI HT-18's like hot cakes, but yet still complain that they are "expensive" or have "less then spectacular results". To the point of nearly bankrupting the series from SI.
[Lots of these people.]

Then there is the camp that is going for sheer/spl/bq/sq or bragging rights. Cost no object (or less of an object) types. The WOW-32 and SI-24 or RF-19 and LMS-18 types.
[A rare few.]

So unless you can prove that it is the "best value per $" or simply "the best", then I'd figure that most people simply "won't care".

and even then, they will DEMAND tech support from you and BQ inspection services (and for you to eat the costs.) They won't want to order it direct from china, it is seen as "too much risk", and they will want free shipping or cheap shipping.

That is assuming you want to get into the audio business.

If you were just getting into it for eval-purposes, I don't think too many would care about the results. Or maybe they would, but would never buy any themselves. (a few might, of course...)

Nothing is stopping a crowd fund of 50 SAB-24's today or 8 months ago when I posted about it. It just requires somebody to either "make it their business" or at the very least... organize a sea-shipping and re-distribution network/warehouse.

The FTW-21 being $840 and the SI-24 being $699.
If it costs more than that, nobody will want it.
(Although the SAB-24 is closer to the performance to that of the SHS-24, which goes for $2500)

Nobody has (yet) put their neck out and done either. Which I don't blame them for, it's super high risk and super costly, and thus a high chance of failure and public ridicule for if/when it fails.

Perhaps someone is (at the very least) waiting for me to test the beast in an actual box first. [Which I will eventually get to, before I die... ]

For the brief time I've had with the SAB-24 in free-air, I can say it is definitely better than the 21's I have, it could very well be the best driver I own and WILL EVER own.(Assuming china can maintain consistent BQ at high volumes. That's a big *IF* though...)

I can't see myself going beyond 24's any time soon, if ever.
They are too big for my current room. It's just not gonna work with my layout.
I've exceeded the capacity of this room as-is.
If I didn't have a decent system already or a bigger room or if I was Bill Gates, it would be an entirely different book...
Thanks again, you really have a nice way of putting things. I am not quite sure what camp I am in. I don't even watch TV or movies. This is all for my kids and wife. But I do enjoy doing things right or well. It does not have to be bargain basement, but I like to think that I got some value from learning and making smart choices. As for bragging rights, I don't give a rat's ass about what anyone else thinks about me, and I sure as hell and not try to impress anyone.

Right now it is 2 o'clock in the morning, and my 12 year old is watching The Lost World on a Blu-Ray player I picked up off Craigslist for $20. The sound seems to be considerably better, and he is enraptured. The is what means the world to me. The system that we have now is more than adequate, if I replaced the subwoofer. For some strange reason, there are a lot of round SVS subs for sale in the area, so maybe 5 of them sprinkled around the room would be fun. I thought that there would be more technical interest for lack of a better word.

This is an addicting hobby, and it lends itself to doing things because they are possible instead of because they are beneficial. I think I will look into subs and see what would be most harmonious in my room. I have really fixated on SVS, but a few people have suggested Rhythmik or Hsu among others. It would be great if something would rattle the room and leave the rest of the house together. Any thoughts.

Thanks again for all of your time and help.
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