Sub changes HSTs Nearfield ds4’s ported - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 575 Old 07-02-2018, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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The first port resonance started to get to low having the full width of the box when modeling it in winisd so it had to be shorten up a tad.


Thanks. I forgot that part.
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post #212 of 575 Old 07-02-2018, 07:16 AM
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Jtr even has there ulf 4000 Nearfield box port in the middle that doesn’t run across the entire bottom due to that to. To bad the port affects the box like that. It would be easier to run it across the entire bottom.
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post #213 of 575 Old 07-02-2018, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
The first port resonance started to get to low having the full width of the box when modeling it in winisd so it had to be shorten up a tad.
Would it have been more favorable if the port width was narrower, and the length longer then? I realize that is not possible with this enclosure design, but I'm still wrapping my brain around the concept.
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post #214 of 575 Old 07-02-2018, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Would it have been more favorable if the port width was narrower, and the length longer then? I realize that is not possible with this enclosure design, but I'm still wrapping my brain around the concept.


153.8 is the current designs first port resonance
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post #215 of 575 Old 07-02-2018, 08:06 AM
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Would it have been more favorable if the port width was narrower, and the length longer then? I realize that is not possible with this enclosure design, but I'm still wrapping my brain around the concept.


I tired everything with this box he needed the port port to fire from the front of the box and with the width being what it was it just didn’t look right on winisd. Side firing would of been great but then his mains would of blocked the port. Also when adjusting the port size making it taller it does help sometimes but not with this one. I like to see the and wish I remember were I read this before, but I like to keep the port length around 50 inches or less. When it starts to creep up to 60 inches long I could of swore I read somewhere there could be issues with compression in the port or something.
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post #216 of 575 Old 07-02-2018, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a few more pics from the morning. This thing will be making noise by tomorrow for sure. It’s wired up, Tnuts installed, I made sure it’s sealed up from the inside, extra wood glue and some panel adhesive from a tube where needed, all I need to do today yet is screw on the top. I just want to give everything a couple hours before I do that.
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post #217 of 575 Old 07-02-2018, 05:38 PM
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Obviously it's too late to change the cabinet design, and I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but has anyone experimented with doing dual ports? Like a port at the top of the cabinet and the bottom... like the whole width of the cabinet, but shorter ports obviously? Can ports still function that way?
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post #218 of 575 Old 07-02-2018, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Obviously it's too late to change the cabinet design, and I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but has anyone experimented with doing dual ports? Like a port at the top of the cabinet and the bottom... like the whole width of the cabinet, but shorter ports obviously? Can ports still function that way?


I’m sure that’s possible. Harder to implement and build. So probably not worth it.
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post #219 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Sub changes HSTs Nearfield ds4’s ported

Today I got to hear the new box. I’m not immediately blown away, but that’s usually how it goes. The first time I fired up a titan I wasn’t immediately blown away. But anyway the issue I’m having now is port chuffing. It’s not super bad, but it’s an unmistakable sound. Not sure what to do. I know I could raise my high pass a bit but I don’t want to. The super deep sound of these hst’s is what I like most about them. I don’t want to loose that. I popped on the server room scene of pulse and cranked it up to reference and heard the chuffing. Not sure what I’m gonna do. Everything is a give and take. Is it worth having amazing mains and loose a bit of bass in these teens? Maybe. @VicTorious1 you heard it what would you do?
Options:
1 Build all four and see what it’s like. They’re all cut and ready to build.
2 scrap the four subs up front idea and just build two huge low tuned boxes that are better suited for the hst’s.
3 ???? What else is there to do?
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post #220 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 11:54 AM
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You 100% sure it's chuffing? Reason I ask is I have one of my PSIs that is not quite sealed as well as the other one, and when I run sine waves around 23Hz and below I hear a slight flatulence noise. As I get closer to the sub, I can feel the wisps of air around the bolt hole I failed to gasket properly. The other sub is dead silent, other than what it is supposed to be doing.

The difference is I don't really hear it during normal movie scenes. Hacksaw Ridge still sounds like WWII. It isn't until I get REW out and play that I notice the issue. So with that and the fact I'm not thrilled about pulling a driver out again, I've put of fixing it.
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post #221 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JCJetta View Post
You 100% sure it's chuffing? Reason I ask is I have one of my PSIs that is not quite sealed as well as the other one, and when I run sine waves around 23Hz and below I hear a slight flatulence noise. As I get closer to the sub, I can feel the wisps of air around the bolt hole I failed to gasket properly. The other sub is dead silent, other than what it is supposed to be doing.



The difference is I don't really hear it during normal movie scenes. Hacksaw Ridge still sounds like WWII. It isn't until I get REW out and play that I notice the issue. So with that and the fact I'm not thrilled about pulling a driver out again, I've put of fixing it.


Yeah I’m sure. I put my hands all over the box and could not feel anything. I’m good at sealing up cabs. I install commercial glass for a living on high rise buildings and am very attentive to leaks of any kind. I torqued down the 1/4 20’s into their Tnuts and used the gasket as well. Mike is double checking the data soon. I wish I could post a video. It’s evident in a cell phone vid I took.
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Ok I’m trying something new. Don’t laugh.
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Sub changes HSTs Nearfield ds4’s ported

Box plan changed... the hst drivers are monsters down low now with a modified plan the port height is increased and the tune had to come up a tad. At least now there should be no chuffing with the air port velocity at 19.5 ms at 17hz. That’s were it peaks...
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Box plan changed... the hst drivers are monsters down low now with a modified plan the port height is increased and the tune had to come up a tad. At least now there should be no chuffing with the air port velocity at 19.5 ms at 17hz. That’s were it peaks...


Thank you for all your time Mike! One scrapped box is a small price to pay for an amazing setup!
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post #227 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 01:59 PM
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Sub changes HSTs Nearfield ds4’s ported

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Thank you for all your time Mike! One scrapped box is a small price to pay for an amazing setup!


Sorry about that box I really thought 23-to low 24 ms of air port velocity would be good but this was a good lesson I learned and the rest of the guys in here. The HTS drivers are monsters and move a ton of air, these seem to be different than the normal since the xmax on these are so high. If anyone see a problem with what the current air port velocity is please speak up now before Jarrod starts the build. The graph is above of it.
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post #228 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Sub changes HSTs Nearfield ds4’s ported

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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Sorry about that box I really thought 23-to low 24 ms of air port velocity would be good but this was a good lesson I learned and the rest of the guys in here. The HTS drivers are monsters and move a ton of air, these seem to be different than the normal since the xmax on these are so high. If anyone see a problem with what the current air port velocity is please speak up now before Jarrod starts the build. The graph is above of it.


Maybe the guru @LTD02 can chime in. I don’t want to redo the design for air port velocity that is still audible.
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post #229 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 02:54 PM
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Is the 19.5 m/s air velocity modeled at the max power rating for the HST?
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Sub changes HSTs Nearfield ds4’s ported

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Is the 19.5 m/s at the max power rating for the HST?


No. It’s at 2000 Watts I’m really trying to cram a lot into a small space I know. Not looking for ideal, but as is now the port noise is unbearable. Is 4 m/s lower really that much less audible is the question of the day.
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post #231 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 02:59 PM
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What is the new port height? I'd do at least 3" tall. I went with 3.5" on my 21DS and could not measure any port compression. From what I've read (and partially* comprehended) the height is important because the air drags along the sides and accelerates through the middle. Going too narrow reduces the airs ability to accelerate through the middle. Ymmv.
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post #232 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 03:06 PM
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What is the new port height? I'd do at least 3" tall. I went with 3.5" on my 21DS and could not measure any port compression. From what I've read (and partially* comprehended) the height is important because the air drags along the sides and accelerates through the middle. Going too narrow reduces the airs ability to accelerate through the middle. Ymmv.


3.5” doesn’t work because of the first port resonance. That was the issue the width of box’s port was wide and box size really needed to be bigger so there was compromises.
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What is the new port height? I'd do at least 3" tall. I went with 3.5" on my 21DS and could not measure any port compression. From what I've read (and partially* comprehended) the height is important because the air drags along the sides and accelerates through the middle. Going too narrow reduces the airs ability to accelerate through the middle. Ymmv.


3” is the new height
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post #234 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 03:27 PM
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No. It’s at 2000 Watts I’m really trying to cram a lot into a small space I know. Not looking for ideal, but as is now the port noise is unbearable. Is 4 m/s lower really that much less audible is the question of the day.
When you model it, it should be modeled at the max power rating for the driver even if you're going to feed it less power. Port diameter (i.e., the height) can matter, but there are trade-offs. Try laying the subwoofer down on it's back or flipping it over so the port is not close to the floor. Do you still hear the port noise?
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When you model it, it should be modeled at the max power rating for the driver even if you're going to feed it less power. Port diameter (i.e., the height) can matter, but there are trade-offs. Try laying the subwoofer down on it's back or flipping it over so the port is not close to the floor. Do you still hear the port noise?


Yes. I had the sub on its back pointed up to the ceiling and it still chuffed.
If I try and get it modeled at full power it would never work. I’m trying to find a happy medium. Vic is 19.5 so much better then 24?
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post #236 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 04:09 PM
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When I first modeled this the driver it was entered with 2,000 watts from what I remember. I always do that on every winisd build because of the air port velocity and cone excursion that need to be in check. I haven’t had any problems in the past with hearing chuffing at 23 ms like Jarrod is having. 2 inches high port isn’t enough for the hst having lots of xmax. The video loaded to I think is pulse? That’s super low and below port tune in the box but I could be wrong. Either way it chuffed with another movie going so these need to be changed ASAP.
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Yes, 2" port height is likely a big part of the problem. Raising that to 3" or more and narrowing the width as necessary to keep cross-sectional area the same (which will keep port length and first port resonance the same) should help. As would rounding over the ends of the ports.

Really, the box is just undersized for that driver. That is why you are having trouble balancing port size to keep velocity down and port length to keep first port resonance up. As you increase box size, you can increase the port size and decrease the port length, bringing both constraints toward where you want them. Those drivers are incredible and can move a ton of air. They will be crippled in those boxes by these port constraints, which will kind of defeat the purpose of having them. They won't really be able to be pushed beyond what a cheaper driver could do in those boxes.

Your old boxes appeared to be quite a bit bigger. Do you still have them? What were they tuned?
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post #238 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 04:57 PM
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This is a perfect build for these mdf corners I have. You have to measure them a different way. I have it in my PM’s with @LTD02




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you may want to run the router around the inside edge of the port. even some roundover can help take down port noise. tough to say if it will be be enough in your case, but might be worth a shot.
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post #240 of 575 Old 07-03-2018, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Sub changes HSTs Nearfield ds4’s ported

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Yes, 2" port height is likely a big part of the problem. Raising that to 3" or more and narrowing the width as necessary to keep cross-sectional area the same (which will keep port length and first port resonance the same) should help. As would rounding over the ends of the ports.



Really, the box is just undersized for that driver. That is why you are having trouble balancing port size to keep velocity down and port length to keep first port resonance up. As you increase box size, you can increase the port size and decrease the port length, bringing both constraints toward where you want them. Those drivers are incredible and can move a ton of air. They will be crippled in those boxes by these port constraints, which will kind of defeat the purpose of having them. They won't really be able to be pushed beyond what a cheaper driver could do in those boxes.



Your old boxes appeared to be quite a bit bigger. Do you still have them? What were they tuned?


I hear ya on everything your saying. The old boxes were not any bigger net volume but had 3” tall ports. Tune was higher on the old boxes too. I really pushed for 15hz tune which really upped the M/S of port velocity. There wasn’t any audible port chuffing in the old boxes. And no, I don’t have them anymore. The fix we have is to increase my port design to 3” tall and increase port length to within 4” of the box top. It will result in 19.5 m/s air velocity and 17.5 hz tune. This I will be happy with. My old boxes tuned in the 18’s were flat to around 12 hz in room. At nearly 125 dB. Just trying to split the difference and get respectable results. I wish I could increase box overall volume but I can’t!
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