Skinny Mini[marty] LT - build thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 132 Old 08-01-2018, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
Throw the UM’s against the back wall & just order 4 JBL CS1214 12’s to throw behind your seating!
I really want to do something like that... it’s just I’m an idiot and didn’t prewire those rear locations for subs! Need to think through how to get speaker wire there...
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post #62 of 132 Old 08-01-2018, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post
I really want to do something like that... it’s just I’m an idiot and didn’t prewire those rear locations for subs! Need to think through how to get speaker wire there...
Idk what obstacles are in your way but, this wiring from Sewell is worth every penny. You can run it under your flooring, under your baseboards, or along the wall & paint it to match. Little pricey but, again well worth it.

https://sewelldirect.com/search?q=Ghost%20wire

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post #63 of 132 Old 08-10-2018, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally got to plug both these puppies in. Didn’t have time today to do too much other than set HPF at 20hz in the inuke and play bass I love you . My goal was just to make sure I wired everything correctly internal to the sub and with my diy speakon cables. Was odd, gain knobs on front were set at 3pm just to start (as recommended in the martysub faq) and without the volume cranked too much at all, I definitely felt pressurization at certain points in the song. Wasn’t expecting that given my room size and fact I only had two of these. Hoping to start learning REW and measuring sometime over the next 2-3 days to see what’s going on so I can decide what to do with my two UM18-22s that are siting with no boxes built for them (ie do I put a third upfront in same design as this one, do I put them both on back wall under my rear surrounds, do I build some type of nearfield box for them to go behind the couch/under the bar, etc). I’m leaning toward building a third of this design because I think 3 of these with an HTM12 on each would look pretty damn mean (look = hidden behind an AT screen, but I would know it’s there ha).

@LTD02 , how do I defeat the 20hz HPFs on the inuke6kdsp to be able to get down to say 17hz (or whatever level you’d recommend I set the HPF at)
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post #64 of 132 Old 08-11-2018, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post
Finally got to plug both these puppies in. Didn’t have time today to do too much other than set HPF at 20hz in the inuke and play bass I love you . My goal was just to make sure I wired everything correctly internal to the sub and with my diy speakon cables. Was odd, gain knobs on front were set at 3pm just to start (as recommended in the martysub faq) and without the volume cranked too much at all, I definitely felt pressurization at certain points in the song. Wasn’t expecting that given my room size and fact I only had two of these. Hoping to start learning REW and measuring sometime over the next 2-3 days to see what’s going on so I can decide what to do with my two UM18-22s that are siting with no boxes built for them (ie do I put a third upfront in same design as this one, do I put them both on back wall under my rear surrounds, do I build some type of nearfield box for them to go behind the couch/under the bar, etc). I’m leaning toward building a third of this design because I think 3 of these with an HTM12 on each would look pretty damn mean (look = hidden behind an AT screen, but I would know it’s there ha).

@LTD02 , how do I defeat the 20hz HPFs on the inuke6kdsp to be able to get down to say 17hz (or whatever level you’d recommend I set the HPF at)
Pressurizing the room? Sounds exciting


I'm with you though, I'd take some graphs & see how they're operating in the room before making a decision on your other sub builds. It took me approximately a week to feel completely comfortable w/ REW.



The simplified REW guide is a great place to post if you have any questions

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...raphs-841.html

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post #65 of 132 Old 08-11-2018, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I’ve been watching some YouTube videos and reading while I was traveling this week, so hopefully I can get the hang of it without too much issue!

I don’t know if they were fully pressurizing the room or my ears were just feeling really low bass notes i haven’t experienced before? I have no idea because up until yesterday my experience with bass was an SVS PB10 NSD in an apartment setting. . Now that I have a house with a basement/dedicated space to play with, I’m beginning to learn what bass is all about and what it ‘feels’ like. REW should help me understand what I’m hearing/feeling hopefully so I can start to speak intelligently about what these subs are doing!


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Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
Pressurizing the room? Sounds exciting


I'm with you though, I'd take some graphs & see how they're operating in the room before making a decision on your other sub builds. It took me approximately a week to feel completely comfortable w/ REW.



The simplified REW guide is a great place to post if you have any questions

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...raphs-841.html
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post #66 of 132 Old 08-11-2018, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post

...

@LTD02 , how do I defeat the 20hz HPFs on the inuke6kdsp to be able to get down to say 17hz (or whatever level you’d recommend I set the HPF at)
congratulations. they look great!

setting the high pass at or just below the tuning point will keep the driver from too much excursion and damage.

this is how to shift it down:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...z-dcx2496.html

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post #67 of 132 Old 08-11-2018, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post
Thanks. I’ve been watching some YouTube videos and reading while I was traveling this week, so hopefully I can get the hang of it without too much issue!

I don’t know if they were fully pressurizing the room or my ears were just feeling really low bass notes i haven’t experienced before? I have no idea because up until yesterday my experience with bass was an SVS PB10 NSD in an apartment setting. . Now that I have a house with a basement/dedicated space to play with, I’m beginning to learn what bass is all about and what it ‘feels’ like. REW should help me understand what I’m hearing/feeling hopefully so I can start to speak intelligently about what these subs are doing!
I know what you mean, I went from a Polk PSW505 to a BIC PL-200 II to a Monolith 10 to a Monolith 12 to my 18” & I just finished assembling my microcube

Absolutely REW is a godsend. Also I would play around with the “Room Simulator” as for placement. I used it today to correlate my microcube with my other subs and it accurately predicted it’s frequency response individually & together as a group based on placement, gain, delay (distance), & number of subs. I can’t believe how well it worked.

One thing I’d recommend is to make sure both subs are on the same polarity & correctly aligned together. My frequency response improved significantly after I switched my micro to 180 & accounted for the time alignment. It completely dissipated a huge null at 47Hz & brought the groups 10-25Hz FR up by 10dB.

Btw you would accomplish this by looking at both subs impulse graph (individually measured) overlayed each other. You want the first dip (or peak) to match on both subwoofers and want that same dip or peak to be as close as possible to overlap. Also make sure to turn on your acoustic timing reference & leave it on for every measurement from here on out, it’ll save you a lot of trouble. Use on of the front channels for the ATR.

Hope this helps a little

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post #68 of 132 Old 08-12-2018, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tip on acoustic timing!! I plan to work through Matt’s excellent sub/main integration thread which covers setting distance, polarity, etc.
In the meantime, I decided overnight to build a third one of these, if only to act as a stand for my Center channel haha. Will then see what need in terms of rear subs, near field, etc.

Any good links to threads on how to set the gain attenuation knobs on inukes (or other amps)? I’m confused on how to do this since people talk about sending signals/playing Test tones and seeing if the amp clip lights blink - but there’s no mention of what volume on the AVR to do that at. Seems to me it is volume dependent (since that determines the pre-out voltage). And what happens when I run Dirac auto eq, won’t that mess it up? Or am I misunderstanding output clipping and it can occur at any master volume/ie is independent of master volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
I know what you mean, I went from a Polk PSW505 to a BIC PL-200 II to a Monolith 10 to a Monolith 12 to my 18” & I just finished assembling my microcube

Absolutely REW is a godsend. Also I would play around with the “Room Simulator” as for placement. I used it today to correlate my microcube with my other subs and it accurately predicted it’s frequency response individually & together as a group based on placement, gain, delay (distance), & number of subs. I can’t believe how well it worked.

One thing I’d recommend is to make sure both subs are on the same polarity & correctly aligned together. My frequency response improved significantly after I switched my micro to 180 & accounted for the time alignment. It completely dissipated a huge null at 47Hz & brought the groups 10-25Hz FR up by 10dB.

Btw you would accomplish this by looking at both subs impulse graph (individually measured) overlayed each other. You want the first dip (or peak) to match on both subwoofers and want that same dip or peak to be as close as possible to overlap. Also make sure to turn on your acoustic timing reference & leave it on for every measurement from here on out, it’ll save you a lot of trouble. Use on of the front channels for the ATR.

Hope this helps a little
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post #69 of 132 Old 08-12-2018, 04:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
congratulations. they look great!

setting the high pass at or just below the tuning point will keep the driver from too much excursion and damage.

this is how to shift it down:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...z-dcx2496.html
Thanks @LTD02 !! Any chance you can help my understanding of output clipping on the inuke vs relation to master volume/AVR output level coming out the sub line-out? I ask right in the post above here. Can I set the attenuation knobs at any master volume on my AVR or do I need to do it at a specific volume or maybe at reference level? If it’s volume-independent, awesome that makes things simpler. If it’s volume-dependent, how do I do it before running Dirac/any auto eq programs on today's AVRs? Seems if I do it before, I have no idea what ‘volume’ I’m sending Test signals at to the amp since the AVR hasn’t been calibrated yet. If I do it after when I know what the various volume levels will mean to me, won’t that mess up the sub trim levels in the AVR/auto eq if I go ahead and change the attenuation knobs after running auto eq/calibration? Seems like a chicken and egg question - or even more likely I am misunderstanding the technical definition of clipping and it can occur at any AVR master volume?

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post #70 of 132 Old 08-12-2018, 06:17 AM
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Thanks for the tip on acoustic timing!! I plan to work through Matt’s excellent sub/main integration thread which covers setting distance, polarity, etc.
In the meantime, I decided overnight to build a third one of these, if only to act as a stand for my Center channel haha. Will then see what need in terms of rear subs, near field, etc.

Any good links to threads on how to set the gain attenuation knobs on inukes (or other amps)? I’m confused on how to do this since people talk about sending signals/playing Test tones and seeing if the amp clip lights blink - but there’s no mention of what volume on the AVR to do that at. Seems to me it is volume dependent (since that determines the pre-out voltage). And what happens when I run Dirac auto eq, won’t that mess it up? Or am I misunderstanding output clipping and it can occur at any master volume/ie is independent of master volume?
I’m certainly no expert with rack amps comparatively to gain & clipping but, I spent an hour or two yesterday running test with my microcube.

Hopefully @LTD02 could share some insight on this further.

This is how I went about the process.

I first reran my AutoEQ which is YPAO, from there I opened REW’s generator & SPL meter. With the signal at -12dbfs (in the generator) I then ran pink noise through my fronts adjusting my AVR master volume until it read 75dB. Then I went back into YPAO and adjusted each channel independently to 75dB, some were 1dB off others .5, etc. until all were at a 75dB reading.

I then pulled up John Wick chapter 2, I enjoy this movie as the first 2 minutes is a loud car chase, set my AVR to my loudest preferred listening level (master volume) and started adjusting the AVR sub trim to correlate with the input signal meter on the iNUKE software with the output meter. In my case, especially since most Yamaha’s send out 1v vs most other AVR’s sending 2v I had to boost my trim level compared to a traditional sub you’d buy online. I made sure on my loudest master volume that the input level never clipped. I’ve always heard you want at least 3dB headroom but, 6dB is preferred.

Also I should mention I had the gain knob on the faceplate of the amp set to 3pm. Once I made sure my input was not clipping I then went back into the iNUKE software to the filter/crossover tab & started adjusting the gain into the positives to see what my limit was before clipping the output. Once I found a good correlation between the two (input & output meters) I then went back to the gain knob on the faceplate & turned it back a couple of clicks.

Now again I’m no expert on signal clipping along with clipping the amplifier but, I believe it’s better to test multiple straining action scenes rather than a sine wive, etc as it’s the peaks that will force clipping to occur.

Again hopefully John can chime in to add or subtract from my statement and your question but, this was my method.
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post #71 of 132 Old 08-12-2018, 04:30 PM
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there are several ways to set the levels, but when using auto eq, the easiest may simply be to adjust the level of the gain on the amp so that when the auto eq is run the subwoofer trim is set somewhere toward the middle of the range. so if it goes from -12 to +6 for example, that the gain on the amp is set so that after running auto eq the trim will be about 0 to -3db or something like that. if it is out toward one end of the range (or pegged at the max or the min), then the gain on the amp is set too high or too low. then monitor for clipping. if clipping, then there probably isn't enough rig for the gig and/or the auto eq is doing something unreasonable such as trying to fill in a big void.
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post #72 of 132 Old 08-13-2018, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks @LTD02 and @DaBateman . Guess it is indeed more like a cycle of doing both gain setting, autoeq, adjusting gain as needed, re-running autoeq/tweaking main speaker levels, etc. Better settle in for this part I guess!

Any idea how far the port opening needs to be away from the closest object? Can I have the port of one of these subs firing into the side of the next one from 4-6” away?mormis that a bad idea? If bad, any issues rotating the design 90deg so the port fires out the top of the box instead of the side? I can’t think why that would be bad but wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing any if I had to go that route. I want to put three of these next to each other along my front screen wall but they add up to 10 feet across even with no spacing between them!

Thanks again gents!
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post #73 of 132 Old 08-13-2018, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post
Thanks @LTD02 and @DaBateman . Guess it is indeed more like a cycle of doing both gain setting, autoeq, adjusting gain as needed, re-running autoeq/tweaking main speaker levels, etc. Better settle in for this part I guess!

Any idea how far the port opening needs to be away from the closest object? Can I have the port of one of these subs firing into the side of the next one from 4-6” away?mormis that a bad idea? If bad, any issues rotating the design 90deg so the port fires out the top of the box instead of the side? I can’t think why that would be bad but wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing any if I had to go that route. I want to put three of these next to each other along my front screen wall but they add up to 10 feet across even with no spacing between them!

Thanks again gents!
I believe that I read you want the diameter of the port to that far away from the closest object ie a 4” port should have at least 4”. I’m not sure how this would correlate to a slot port though.

Also you can flip the sub any which way, it’ll make no difference if the port is on top or bottom.

I also did some reading here regarding the iNUKE amps, very useful information. He tested the real world peak & rms wattage along w/ the limiter, PEQ, DEQ, HS/LS, etc, etc. there’s a couple off topic conversations throughout but, overall a very informative read.

12pgs but well worth it

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...p-rundown.html

Also going back to clipping for a second, it seems from a combination of the thread above in combination w/ the iNUKE manual that the input meter on the iNUKE software is before gain, PEQ, DEQ, DSP, etc. so if it’s not clipping it’s more less useless as to real world use. Also if a limiter is set, once the limit is reached the clip light will occur on the output meter (as well as the faceplate lights)

I still have a few other recommendations for clipping to read through so I will report back w/ any new findings.


& three of those up front will be blissful

| Eqmt | Vizio 4K M50-E1 | Yamaha RX-V681 | iNUKE 3kdsp x2 | Emotiva BasX A-100 | miniDSP UMIK-1 | Monolith M1060 | Monolith USB DAC |
| Sub | Trilithon | Stonehenge Variant Subwoofer - 18” - 9ft³ - 19Hz | Marty | Microcube 390HO - 22Hz | Monolith THX Ultra 12 | Monolith THX Select 10 |
| Spkrs | HSU CCB8 x3 | SVS Prime Elevation x2 | Polk S15 |
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post #74 of 132 Old 08-14-2018, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Got it, in that case I’ll set it so the port fires upwards instead of sideways. I centered the driver in this iteration so it doesn’t sit too high, low, or off to a side if I rotate the sub at some point. First coat of paint is on the third one and a crown 1502 and minidsp HD should be arriving just in time tomorrow (unfortunately no inuke 6000dsp’s are available anywhere on the net these days) - I’ll run the crown on bridge mode and do EQ with the minidsp and then when the new versions of the inukes become available in the fall, I’ll pick one up to drive this third sub and the next 1/2 and shift the crown to driving my L/are).

Thanks for the link to the inuke, I’ll take a read through to this evening once I get final paint coat on and run a third sub wire to the front of my room behind the screen. I can’t wait till this third sub is done so I can schlep it down stairs, mount the driver and speakon port, and then re-mount everything else on my screen wall and fire these puppies up to start testing/calibrating! I’ve promised myself no more speaker/sub builds until the new inuke replacements come out this fall . Unless I get antsy waiting and figure out where to put the 4th 18” driver I have......

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I believe that I read you want the diameter of the port to that far away from the closest object ie a 4” port should have at least 4”. I’m not sure how this would correlate to a slot port though.

Also you can flip the sub any which way, it’ll make no difference if the port is on top or bottom.

I also did some reading here regarding the iNUKE amps, very useful information. He tested the real world peak & rms wattage along w/ the limiter, PEQ, DEQ, HS/LS, etc, etc. there’s a couple off topic conversations throughout but, overall a very informative read.

12pgs but well worth it

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...p-rundown.html

Also going back to clipping for a second, it seems from a combination of the thread above in combination w/ the iNUKE manual that the input meter on the iNUKE software is before gain, PEQ, DEQ, DSP, etc. so if it’s not clipping it’s more less useless as to real world use. Also if a limiter is set, once the limit is reached the clip light will occur on the output meter (as well as the faceplate lights)

I still have a few other recommendations for clipping to read through so I will report back w/ any new findings.


& three of those up front will be blissful
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post #75 of 132 Old 08-16-2018, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys, I built a nice ‘stand’ for my center channel. What do you think? Still haven’t done any level setting, eq, etc other than set HPF. I’m using a crow XLS 1502 in bridge mode with a minidsp HD until the new inuke replacements come in stock.

Wiring the UM18-22 in series..


Before getting it into place:


Done and in place:


My only real regret of the build is putting the right driver lower in the front baffle so that the center of gravity was lower. Now it looks out of place and the other two aren’t any more ‘tippy’. Oh well, no one will ever really see these once the screen goes up.
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post #76 of 132 Old 08-16-2018, 04:42 PM
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Guys, I built a nice ‘stand’ for my center channel. What do you think? Still haven’t done any level setting, eq, etc other than set HPF. I’m using a crow XLS 1502 in bridge mode with a minidsp HD until the new inuke replacements come in stock.

Wiring the UM18-22 in series..


Before getting it into place:


Done and in place:


My only real regret of the build is putting the right driver lower in the front baffle so that the center of gravity was lower. Now it looks out of place and the other two aren’t any more ‘tippy’. Oh well, no one will ever really see these once the screen goes up.
“Stand” lol

They look great!..and massive.

Honestly until I read that statement again I didn’t notice them being out of line with the driver height.

How’s the UM18 integrating with the others?

Nice floors btw.

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post #77 of 132 Old 08-17-2018, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
“Stand” lol

They look great!..and massive.

Honestly until I read that statement again I didn’t notice them being out of line with the driver height.

How’s the UM18 integrating with the others?

Nice floors btw.
Thanks! Was focused on getting this build done so have t stared the measurement/integration process just yet. Hopefully this weekend...
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post #78 of 132 Old 08-22-2018, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Finished measuring, integrating, eq-ing, etc today. Measurements look nice and smooth (not flat, I had Dirac apply a Harman curve), but for whatever reason, the slam of the bass is gone. I mean I hear it and it’s clear, but I feel like something is missing post-calibration. I can crank the master volume up on my AVR but seems I can’t even get the first light to blink on either the Inuke or the crown in a movie scene with heavy bass, even when I get to uncomfortable listening levels. Gain knobs on both the Inuke and crown are maxed out and were reduced digitally in my miniDSP a bit when i level matched and calibrated to 75db. Dirac set the sub trim almost smack in the middle of its +/-12db trim range at +2db. There’s a nasty suck out in the left most and right most seats around 70hz but even sitting center sofa in prime spot, I don’t feel much like I did pre-calibration and integration.

What am I missing? Do I just need to boost the bass more/cut the digital reductions to gain?

Note: the below is unsmoothed other than center seat so the ‘higher’ frequency response is more choppy than you might normally see in graphs here.


Thanks!

Last edited by rukus29; 08-23-2018 at 04:43 AM.
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post #79 of 132 Old 08-24-2018, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post
Finished measuring, integrating, eq-ing, etc today. Measurements look nice and smooth (not flat, I had Dirac apply a Harman curve), but for whatever reason, the slam of the bass is gone. I mean I hear it and it’s clear, but I feel like something is missing post-calibration. I can crank the master volume up on my AVR but seems I can’t even get the first light to blink on either the Inuke or the crown in a movie scene with heavy bass, even when I get to uncomfortable listening levels. Gain knobs on both the Inuke and crown are maxed out and were reduced digitally in my miniDSP a bit when i level matched and calibrated to 75db. Dirac set the sub trim almost smack in the middle of its +/-12db trim range at +2db. There’s a nasty suck out in the left most and right most seats around 70hz but even sitting center sofa in prime spot, I don’t feel much like I did pre-calibration and integration.

What am I missing? Do I just need to boost the bass more/cut the digital reductions to gain?

Note: the below is unsmoothed other than center seat so the ‘higher’ frequency response is more choppy than you might normally see in graphs here.


Thanks!
Looking at the graph it’s hard to get a taste for what’s really going on between the vertical limits & all the overlapping.

Post some pictures of each sub measured individually pre & post EQ

Then post a picture of all subs together pre & post EQ no mains.

Also set vertical to 105 top 60 bottom w/ horizontal to 15 left 300 right measured 10 to 300Hz.

Just from above it doesn’t look like any major nulls but, again can’t really make much out.


Edit:
Also make sure you have the frequency axis button is off or on where your graph looks like this


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Last edited by DaBateman; 08-24-2018 at 10:07 PM.
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post #80 of 132 Old 08-27-2018, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
775 per driver puts the output up in the 122db ballpark (2 pi space). in room low end will be boosted vs. the plots. doubling power gives a 3db as in the light green line.


ideally the amp could send about 2kw burst to each driver, but again, it all depends how crazy you want to go. with the amp that you have now, two UM18's, and big ported cabs...you'll probably have enough low end. :-)

@LTD02 I’ve now got 3 of these sitting under my HTM12s and feel like I’m lacking in the mid bass.. I’ve got the 15-50hz feeling pretty good despite the very big room but feel like I’m missing chest slam from the HTMs above 80hz and am guessing this is combo of floor bounce issues and it being a big room - since I’ve got 2 uxl18s and 1 um18 firing straight at my mlp from 12ft away, I figured they should be able to crush me even above 80hz - can the design you put together for me here work with like a 150hz crossover to the three subs? Or will I have any port resonance or other issues?

To refresh, I’m running the uxls off an inuke6k and the um18 off a bridged crown xls1502 (no more Inukes available for now...), so plenty of power I think. I can’t the Inuke to light up at all as it with uxls in them and the crown barely touches the first clip light on bass heavy scenes.

Thanks!
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post #81 of 132 Old 08-27-2018, 12:00 PM
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hhmm...check distance/delay and polarity. those can be tricky culprits and smoothest response doesn't always equal maximum impact. after that, pull the eq corner of your bass curve further up in frequency. it appears that you may be 5-7dB or more weak in the 80-120Hz Hz ballpark.

i'd experiment as much as possible while keeping the crossover at 80Hz (or even a hair lower) because your mains should have very high efficiency through the midbass region. however, if you want to experiment with a higher crossover there is nothing in your subs that will prevent that. first port resonance on yours is relatively high, up around 160Hz or so.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #82 of 132 Old 08-27-2018, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
Looking at the graph it’s hard to get a taste for what’s really going on between the vertical limits & all the overlapping.

Post some pictures of each sub measured individually pre & post EQ

Then post a picture of all subs together pre & post EQ no mains.

Also set vertical to 105 top 60 bottom w/ horizontal to 15 left 300 right measured 10 to 300Hz.

Just from above it doesn’t look like any major nulls but, again can’t really make much out.


Edit:
Also make sure you have the frequency axis button is off or on where your graph looks like this

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
hhmm...check distance/delay and polarity. those can be tricky culprits and smoothest response doesn't always equal maximum impact. after that, pull the eq corner of your bass curve further up in frequency. it appears that you may be 5-7dB or more weak in the 80-120Hz Hz ballpark.

i'd experiment as much as possible while keeping the crossover at 80Hz (or even a hair lower) because your mains should have very high efficiency through the midbass region. however, if you want to experiment with a higher crossover there is nothing in your subs that will prevent that. first port resonance on yours is relatively high, up around 160Hz or so.
ok here are a bunch of measurements pre and post Dirac Live -

basic pre-Dirac chart of all subs individually at center MLP showing the result when i adjusted phase of the left sub and set center sub delay of 0.25ms (all three subs are on front wall and really can probably be treated like a giant sub i assume for purposes of a center seat?):


comparison across seats (running all subs) pre-Dirac:


center seat pre vs post Dirac, looking at all three subs individually and together. Note for all the rest of the graphs, Dirac target curve was meant to mimic the Harman curve, which is why you see post-EQ lines have higher SPL than the pre-EQ curves. i had also had my sub gains at a lower level before running this Dirac calibration and changed my gains before running all the prior measurements above, so the sub looks like its being run much hotter than i would expect to since Dirac set the sub trim level at +1 with the lower gains, so the harman curve is being magnified in the subwoofer portion of the FR graphs:





left center seat pre vs post dirac:


right center seat pre vs post dirac:


left seat pre vs post dirac:


right seat pre vs post dirac:
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post #83 of 132 Old 08-27-2018, 10:23 PM
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Wow, Dirac seems to be godly comparing its results to what YPAO did for me..

Anyway, everything looks good w/ a few small PEQ filters to be set.

I would add a 3dB PEQ w/ a Q of 2.0 at 90Hz universally for all subs, this should help with some midbass across all seating positions.

I’d also add a -1.5dB PEQ w/ a Q of 3.5 at 30Hz universally.

R sub +1.5dB Q-1.5 20Hz.

Anything else is just nitpicking really. You’ve done a great job & have a beautiful system. You should be proud!

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post #84 of 132 Old 08-27-2018, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
Wow, Dirac seems to be godly comparing its results to what YPAO did for me..

Anyway, everything looks good w/ a few small PEQ filters to be set.

I would add a 3dB PEQ w/ a Q of 2.0 at 90Hz universally for all subs, this should help with some midbass across all seating positions.

I’d also add a -1.5dB PEQ w/ a Q of 3.5 at 30Hz universally.

R sub +1.5dB Q-1.5 20Hz.

Anything else is just nitpicking really. You’ve done a great job & have a beautiful system. You should be proud!
Thanks, Dirac is actually quite impressive. But reserve your judgement until I re-run Dirac tomorrow because the relative sub trim levels were out of wack for these ‘post-Dirac’ runs. Let’s see what the midbass looks like after the new runs...
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post #85 of 132 Old 08-28-2018, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
Wow, Dirac seems to be godly comparing its results to what YPAO did for me..

Anyway, everything looks good w/ a few small PEQ filters to be set.

I would add a 3dB PEQ w/ a Q of 2.0 at 90Hz universally for all subs, this should help with some midbass across all seating positions.

I’d also add a -1.5dB PEQ w/ a Q of 3.5 at 30Hz universally.

R sub +1.5dB Q-1.5 20Hz.

Anything else is just nitpicking really. You’ve done a great job & have a beautiful system. You should be proud!
before i mess around with individual EQ filters, wanted to post runs of my new Dirac calibration and some testing of the crossover frequency...


I did my best to check phase/time alignment post-Dirac but I'm not 100% confident if the results are valid. since i am running my test tones via a stereo L/R RCA out from my laptop, i can't test the subwoofers alone by simply turning the fronts off since the acoustic time reference is my front left speaker - so i had to hit measure and pull the Left banana plugs after i thought the ATR tone ended but before the test tone started.
this is what i get in terms of constructive interference around the crossover - Subs vs LR mains vs Both together - do i need to mess with sub delay?


and this is what i get in terms of an impulse response noting my concern above:



XO frequency tests - it looks like as i raise the crossover it increasingly solves the null at 70h but exaggerates the null at 102, 122, and 142 - it is odd that the nulls are in 20hz increments rather than octaves or something?? does that mean it is a crossover filter/slope issue causing this and not room modes? does that mean there's a way to fix this?
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post #86 of 132 Old 08-28-2018, 07:13 PM
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You don’t need an acoustic timing reference for the impulse graphs specifically so rerun those graphs because they look different than last nights graphs.

Also run a sweep through left and right w/ them unplugged so the sub is the only thing being measured (but make sure to measure the speaker & not LFE[in rew]) w/ 80Hz & 120Hz XO’s.

Also it does seem odd that the increase in peaks are 20Hz increments, mine would shift like 5dB max although I’m not entirely sure how Dirac works either so it may be normal.

But once I see those we should be able to set it and forget it.

So (1) graph of each individual sub impulse overlayed, (1) graph of left & right sweeps (with only sub being measured) w/ 80Hz & 120Hz Speaker XO’s, (1) graph of L&R (with subs off) & all subs together impulse graph overlay.

So 10 sweeps and we should be good. Sorry I know making hundreds of sweeps gets old fast.

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post #87 of 132 Old 08-28-2018, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
You don’t need an acoustic timing reference for the impulse graphs specifically so rerun those graphs because they look different than last nights graphs.

Also run a sweep through left and right w/ them unplugged so the sub is the only thing being measured (but make sure to measure the speaker & not LFE[in rew]) w/ 80Hz & 120Hz XO’s.

Also it does seem odd that the increase in peaks are 20Hz increments, mine would shift like 5dB max although I’m not entirely sure how Dirac works either so it may be normal.

But once I see those we should be able to set it and forget it.

So (1) graph of each individual sub impulse overlayed, (1) graph of left & right sweeps (with only sub being measured) w/ 80Hz & 120Hz Speaker XO’s, (1) graph of L&R (with subs off) & all subs together impulse graph overlay.

So 10 sweeps and we should be good. Sorry I know making hundreds of sweeps gets old fast.
Really/ I thought ATR was needed to make the impulse graphs valid. Didn’t realize that wasn’t the case!

I think I’m missing the 10 sweeps you count or misunderstanding exactly what you need to see. No problem running many more sweeps, just want to make sure I run what you want! I tally:
- 3 sweeps for the L/R/C individual subs, will unplug all speakers but keep Dirac engaged and set crossover to highest possible of 200hz
- 2 sweeps of the LR mains, but with them unplugged, one at at 80hz and one at 120hz XOs
- 1 sweep of LR mains (at what XO frequency? Or should I set them to large and turn the subs off in the avr - I also have ability to set crossover up to 200hz and just mute the subs in my miniDSP)
- 1 sweep of all three subs together - at what crossover?

The first 3 would get your graph 1, the second set would get graph 2, and last two sets would get graph 3. I’m sure I’m missing something in your request...
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post #88 of 132 Old 08-28-2018, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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One other thing @DaBateman , what frequency ranges do you want for each sweep?
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post #89 of 132 Old 08-28-2018, 08:36 PM
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One other thing @DaBateman , what frequency ranges do you want for each sweep?
10-300Hz for anything sub & 15-20,000 w/ mains.

Yes 3 sweeps one for each sub, XO doesn’t matter just need impulse of each one (impulse)

Yes 2 sweeps of L&R with them unplugged at 80Hz then 2 more at 120. (Figuring one for each speaker at each XO = 4) (FR)

No 2 sweeps (one for each speaker [L&R] w/ subs off in AVR) 80Hz is fine (FR)

Yes 1 sweep w/ all subs (impulse graph)

Also one more than originally posted

1 sweep Both L&R, if you can’t measure them together just do one (impulse)


Sorry should’ve worded that better earlier.

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post #90 of 132 Old 08-28-2018, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
10-300Hz for anything sub & 15-20,000 w/ mains.

Yes 3 sweeps one for each sub, XO doesn’t matter just need impulse of each one (impulse)

Yes 2 sweeps of L&R with them unplugged at 80Hz then 2 more at 120. (Figuring one for each speaker at each XO = 4) (FR)

No 2 sweeps (one for each speaker [L&R] w/ subs off in AVR) 80Hz is fine (FR)

Yes 1 sweep w/ all subs (impulse graph)

Also one more than originally posted

1 sweep Both L&R, if you can’t measure them together just do one (impulse)


Sorry should’ve worded that better earlier.
Ok cool, I’m clear now. Standby, will take about 30 min to get back down to theater to measure and then maybe another 10min to graph and post...
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