Custom Volt-6 Double-Angled Ideal Atmos Speakers - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 50 Old 05-07-2018, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Custom Volt-6 Double-Angled Ideal Atmos Speakers

I decided to design a box that would allow for wall or ceiling mounting and have built-in angles to support the ideal Atmos locations (45 degree azimuth, 45 degree elevation) and point directly at the MLP.

Design goals:
1. Angled at 45 degrees in both dimensions when mounted on a wall or ceiling
2. Able to crossover at 80Hz - a ported Volt-6 tuned to ~70Hz would be pretty much perfect
3. Volume around 0.27cf - This would allow the Volt-6 stock slot port to tune at ~70Hz. Bigger would be okay but may require cutting the port shorter
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Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #2 of 50 Old 05-07-2018, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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CAD Drawings:

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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

Last edited by aron7awol; 05-07-2018 at 09:20 PM.
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post #3 of 50 Old 05-07-2018, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Notes:
  • I had to come off the front baffle square at the top for a bit before turning 45 in order to leave room for the driver
  • I used 1/2" plywood for all panels except those that had a 45 coming into their edge. A 45 degree diagonal of 1/2" is 0.7" so I used 3/4" plywood where that occurred.
  • The front full-width section doesn't quite fit the port, but the rear section comes down at a 45 (shown in the second section sketch) and still leaves room for the port.
  • Final internal volume comes out to 0.286 cf, which the stock slot port tunes to ~68Hz.
  • I had to make a left-handed version and mirror-image right-handed version, two of each.
  • These were a nightware to cut with a mixture of bevel cuts and miter cuts, with some pieces having both. I used a table saw and miter saw.
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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

Last edited by aron7awol; 05-07-2018 at 09:16 PM.
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post #4 of 50 Old 05-07-2018, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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First one glued up with inside seams sealed with silicone...

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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #5 of 50 Old 05-08-2018, 06:49 AM
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I wanted to do the same thing but recessed into the ceiling.
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post #6 of 50 Old 05-08-2018, 07:39 AM
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Nice job! All those angles make my brain hurt.
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post #7 of 50 Old 05-08-2018, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, the design phase was a bit of a challenge, but nothing compared to the cutting phase. If anything could have ever used a CNC-cut flat pack, this was it! Hint, hint, Erich

All 4 boxes glued up and inside seams sealed. Next steps are lining the inside with foam where it will fit, mounting crossovers and terminal cups, then gluing the front baffles on. One thing I forgot to draw is that I plan on giving the bottom of the front baffle a 45 bevel to match the angle of the adjacent face.

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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

Last edited by aron7awol; 05-08-2018 at 08:32 PM.
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post #8 of 50 Old 05-08-2018, 01:22 PM
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These things are crazytown! I can’t wait to see them done.
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post #9 of 50 Old 05-08-2018, 01:57 PM
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post #10 of 50 Old 05-08-2018, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Cool. How are you going to attach them to the ceiling?
My ceilings are ridiculously high, so in my case, they will be mounted on walls. It just so happens that with the dual angles, they work mounted on front walls, side walls, or ceiling while still pointing at the MLP. For as complicated as they are, they are actually quite versatile.
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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #11 of 50 Old 05-12-2018, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Slowly making progress...

Sanded the boxes, beveled the bottom edge of the front baffle, then did a quick dry fit to make sure everything fits as planned:


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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #12 of 50 Old 05-12-2018, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
My ceilings are ridiculously high, so in my case, they will be mounted on walls. It just so happens that with the dual angles, they work mounted on front walls, side walls, or ceiling while still pointing at the MLP. For as complicated as they are, they are actually quite versatile.


I wasn't specific enough. I was trying to ask how are you actually going to fasten them to the wall or ceiling? Screwing through the inside of the box into the wall or some other method?
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post #13 of 50 Old 05-12-2018, 11:22 AM
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beautiful work .. .

I can imagine that the "mental gymnastics" of trying to visualize this construct, before it went to being on paper, were actually quite a bit of "fun",

although for many DIY'ers: SOP

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post #14 of 50 Old 05-12-2018, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
I wasn't specific enough. I was trying to ask how are you actually going to fasten them to the wall or ceiling? Screwing through the inside of the box into the wall or some other method?
My fault for not actually answering your question. I plan on using french cleats or z-clips

Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
beautiful work .. .

I can imagine that the "mental gymnastics" of trying to visualize this construct, before it went to being on paper, were actually quite a bit of "fun",

although for many DIY'ers: SOP
You really hit the nail on the head. I envisioned it in my mind and thought what I was visualizing made sense and achieved what I wanted, but confirmation didn't come until I built a smaller mockup out of cardboard. At that point, I knew it would work, but decided to draw it in AutoCAD just to make sure I left enough room for the driver and port. That resulted in a minor tweak to add a bit of room for the driver.

Right before I started building these, I built a custom Volt-6 center which had multiple size constraints. AutoCAD proved indispensable for this design, as I ended up having to angle the top of the box at 13 degrees to balance barely fitting the driver and barely fitting under my TV (probably only about 1/8" of clearance in both cases). Completing that and having it end up pretty much exactly as designed gave me the confidence to attempt this build.
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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #15 of 50 Old 05-12-2018, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post
I wanted to do the same thing but recessed into the ceiling.
For a ceiling-only version of this, you could get away with a much simpler design that only has a single 45-degree angle. The other 45 can be made by simply rotating the box on/in the ceiling. In fact, you could use the exact design that I drew in the first AutoCAD image I posted, but have the rectangular section that sticks out only be 3.75" rather than 7.5". Internal volume and thus tuning would end up the same (~68Hz).
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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #16 of 50 Old 05-12-2018, 12:12 PM
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Amazing design and execution! I hope you keep us posted on the progress, and pictures of them in place.
Great work!
Not my SOP!
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post #17 of 50 Old 05-13-2018, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Cut holes for terminal cups, lined with foam (other than the area where the port is close to the interior wall) and wired and mounted crossovers:

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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #18 of 50 Old 05-14-2018, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Glued the front baffles on then sanded. Some minor touch-up with spackle and then tomorrow is painting day!

biga6761, Nalleh and bubbrik like this.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #19 of 50 Old 05-14-2018, 10:59 PM
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Wow , great work so far , looking forward to completion and mounting . Far more maths than I want to try to figure out .

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post #20 of 50 Old 05-15-2018, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Painted! Almost ready for mounting!

Don't mind the color or the finish That is the color of the walls in my living room, and the paint is 10 years old. I filtered it to get the chunks out and rolled it on. Luckily they are going 12 feet up in the air so nobody will see whatever imperfections exist.


Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

Last edited by aron7awol; 05-15-2018 at 04:01 PM.
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post #21 of 50 Old 05-15-2018, 04:14 PM
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Impressive concept and execution!

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post #22 of 50 Old 05-15-2018, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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First one fully assembled and mounted! Don't mind the wire, just there temporarily for testing.


Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #23 of 50 Old 05-15-2018, 07:50 PM
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That’s cool nice woodworking


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post #24 of 50 Old 05-16-2018, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Worked from the moment I got home from work at 6pm until now, midnight, and got the most difficult one mounted. One of the four mount locations does not have a wall, so I had to figure out a good way to mount the speaker to the railing. I wanted something that would be removable in the future, just in case, without leaving any marks or holes. After considering many different options, I attached a block to the back of the box that fits perfectly between the two railings, then cut a beveled back board to screw into the block which would clamp down on the railings. I put a row of felt along each line where there would be contact with the railings to protect them from damage.

Anyway, here's a photo of (cycloptic) number two!


Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

Last edited by aron7awol; 05-17-2018 at 07:39 AM.
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post #25 of 50 Old 05-16-2018, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I fired up a few Atmos demos to test these out, and I am blown away by how amazing they sound. I've always said that I felt Atmos speakers should be defined by angles and not whether they fall on a wall or ceiling, or whether they line up with the front mains. Our ears hear sound coming from angles, and don't care if they line up with fronts at all. Well now I put my money where my mouth is and tested the theory. I am happy to report that it is a massive difference in immersiveness and being able to pinpoint locations of sounds in Atmos content. My previous setup had the Atmos speakers in line with the fronts and because of that they were at far too narrow of an azimuth angle. Unfortunately, that seems to be the most common recommendation on this forum for people installing Atmos setups, and my opinion is that it is simply wrong. It results in inconsistent angles from room to room, and in almost every case results in azimuth angles far less than 45 degrees. The ITU speaker layouts that Atmos is based on define 45/45 azimuth/elevation as the ideal angles.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #26 of 50 Old 05-17-2018, 06:20 AM
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in our room design, we are basically considering the same concept and getting perfect atmos angles. Our biggest difference was to build the boxes normally and then simply rotate them inside of a fabric wall.

Judging by how decent your setup looks, certainly doing it your way is also a nice option. I do think there is an added layer of immersion when the speakers are completely hidden. On the other hand, firing a speaker at an angle through acoustic fabric most likely is not as good as firing a speaker perpendicular to acoustic fabric.

some folks like the visible speaker look too, it adds some "wow" factor to a big multichannel setup.

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post #27 of 50 Old 05-17-2018, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post
in our room design, we are basically considering the same concept and getting perfect atmos angles. Our biggest difference was to build the boxes normally and then simply rotate them inside of a fabric wall.

Judging by how decent your setup looks, certainly doing it your way is also a nice option. I do think there is an added layer of immersion when the speakers are completely hidden. On the other hand, firing a speaker at an angle through acoustic fabric most likely is not as good as firing a speaker perpendicular to acoustic fabric.

some folks like the visible speaker look too, it adds some "wow" factor to a big multichannel setup.
My original plan was to build simple angled boxes and then rotate them on the wall, which sounds like what you're doing. The problem is that if you build a 45-degree angled box and rotate it 45 degrees, the resulting angle does not point at the MLP. I did the math on the resulting angle and I forget exactly what it was, but I want to say it was something close to 30 degrees. That is likely "good enough" for a good FR at the MLP, but I figured that with the level of effort I was already going through, why settle for "good enough" when ideal was achievable and I'm only doing this once?

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #28 of 50 Old 05-17-2018, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
My original plan was to build simple angled boxes and then rotate them on the wall, which sounds like what you're doing. The problem is that if you build a 45-degree angled box and rotate it 45 degrees, the resulting angle does not point at the MLP. I did the math on the resulting angle and I forget exactly what it was, but I want to say it was something close to 30 degrees. That is likely "good enough" for a good FR at the MLP, but I figured that with the level of effort I was already going through, why settle for "good enough" when ideal was achievable and I'm only doing this once?
another consideration that I have seen done by some around here is for bigger seating situations (dedicated theater):
point all speakers at the farthest away seat. This way your seats closer to the side wall speakers are actually getting a lower perceived volume since they are getting more of an off axis response. This thinking seems reasonable to me considering that sitting on the side seats really gets you much more volume from the side wall that you are sitting next to. You essentially want the farthest away speakers to hit you louder to match better with the speakers that are closest to you.

This is all interesting theory however I'm not really sure how much real difference it will make in practice. I haven't really mapped out polar plots for one of these theoretical setups to really get a feeling for the magnitude difference. I suspect this may be relevant when you are dealing with a pretty large room with several rows of seats.

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post #29 of 50 Old 05-17-2018, 07:46 AM
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a different concept also came to mind - in a dedicated theater, imagine that the entire wall surface had interesting geometric angles like these. You would create a naturally diffusive surface with an interesting looking room. some of those surfaces could be fabric and contain absorption as well. it would be a hell of a lot of work but pretty cool to look - like a recording studio.

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post #30 of 50 Old 05-18-2018, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
I fired up a few Atmos demos to test these out, and I am blown away by how amazing they sound. I've always said that I felt Atmos speakers should be defined by angles and not whether they fall on a wall or ceiling, or whether they line up with the front mains. Our ears hear sound coming from angles, and don't care if they line up with fronts at all. Well now I put my money where my mouth is and tested the theory. I am happy to report that it is a massive difference in immersiveness and being able to pinpoint locations of sounds in Atmos content. My previous setup had the Atmos speakers in line with the fronts and because of that they were at far too narrow of an azimuth angle. Unfortunately, that seems to be the most common recommendation on this forum for people installing Atmos setups, and my opinion is that it is simply wrong. It results in inconsistent angles from room to room, and in almost every case results in azimuth angles far less than 45 degrees. The ITU speaker layouts that Atmos is based on define 45/45 azimuth/elevation as the ideal angles.
Is it possible your LR speakers are not set up wide enough? When I work out the distance for mine, I need at least 12 feet of separation to meet the Dolby layout spec.
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