PA460-8 18" NearField Sub Build From Newbie - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 108 Old 06-11-2018, 05:59 PM
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Nice work! Great lesson for all of us, especially for rookies, is to take your time I have been guilty of not taking things slowly enough and ending up with cuts that are a little off, finish a little funky etc.
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post #92 of 108 Old 06-11-2018, 11:54 PM
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Very nice built! I am inspired to make something similar - perhaps with the 12" or the 15" dayton PA drivers as my room is very small. Like you did i would also place them right behind my recliner chairs but what about the ports? It looks like they are very close to the seat in front om the sub. Is the port free air space clearance not a concern?
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post #93 of 108 Old 06-11-2018, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Is this how response should look like at Mlp or near field (mic 1" away from driver)?
pseudo near field (mic just in front of sub so as to be able to capture driver and port contribution), but that is just an estimate of what to expect. each sub should be eq'd based on personal preference.

Listen. It's All Good.

Last edited by LTD02; 06-13-2018 at 12:15 PM.
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post #94 of 108 Old 06-13-2018, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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My first listening impression of sub: Holy SH**. This is just crazy. A NF sub can do insane stuff. No doubt about it. I stared with EQ the sub but then realized that NF sub is very subjective. So cleared it all and placed the sub NF and took 1 reading to see how FR looks like. Then started listening to heavy bass songs. Then started equing based on how FR looked at MLP and ended up with only 1 filter at Freq=80Hz, Gain=-4, and Q=3. This gave me the chest slam that I was looking for also kept the seat shaking in control. Any boost below 50Hz and seat starting shaking a lot more. So this is the first set of settings I am loving with songs. Woooww and I mean woowww. Talk about punchy bass.

What I would recommend based on my short experimentation to have your sub connected to minidsp. Then take fr at mlp to get an idea of how FR looks like. Then play any material that you'd like to test with. Now, change the EQ parameters to see what you like. I don't do that with subs that aren't place NF but for NF, I found this to be the best way to go. Obviously this works for 1 seat only. If you have 3 seats then the approach is even simpler. Build three of these and you are all set

I think for movies this might not work as good as it is doing for music. But seriously wowwww. Soooooooooooooo gooooodddddddd.


Now I have this evil thought of building another one of this so that I can place that one in my Game room . Oh mannnnn. As I'm typing this and listening to it, its just so satisfying.

This came out better than I expected. Wayyy better. @LTD02 , Thank you so much for bringing this to me.
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Last edited by harrisu; 06-13-2018 at 10:43 AM.
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post #95 of 108 Old 06-13-2018, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I took FR readings for others to see the response of box. These are taken with Cross over set highest (200Hz).
Green FR : I had mic at height where the tip was the middle of driver 1" away.
Red FR : Had mic tip facing the box but this time I moved it ~8" away from driver disc and also moved it down till its b/w driver and port. This way we can see the driver+Port (I think).

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post #96 of 108 Old 07-17-2018, 04:55 AM
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Hi

You have inspired me to make a similar built with 2 15" subs to cover 3 seats. I have started my own thread and it would be greatly appreciated if you would stop by my thread a give me a few pointers


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post56500882
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post #97 of 108 Old 07-18-2018, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Up next is the ports sized up for the box (11") and the ducked tapped. @Zarkoff500 , thx for the tip



That was easy. No really. I had cut the port like 3 times. 1st time only 2 inches then a couple more and then finally to 11" as LTD02 recommended.

Thank you for this ! Really appreciate the efforts into explaining the different steps.

I am actually planning to build a similar setup. I have built Mini Marties before, but currently have the two UM18's in 4 c.f. sealed boxes (PE flat-packs). I was planning to build two Full Marties now or possibly even bigger boxes with similar ports like yours, move the UM18s in there for low end duty, and add two PA460 in the sealed boxes that the UM18 were using before.

I actually just read about the Precision ports available on PE the other day, and was thinking to use those instead of the slot port as in the original Marties. Nice to see someone else also using these.

If you don't mind sharing, how did you cut the ports to length? Are those PVC ? I watched a video on YouTube I believe saying he found a miter saw best for this, in order to prevent kick backs or other problems. I only have a circular saw in my disposal, not sure how good of a job that would do.

Also how do these get attached to the box, I assume you just pre-drill through the screw holes and use screws to fasten and seal with some silicone from inside ?
Not sure if maybe applying some gasket type under the external flare (similar to how one would use for the drivers) is also a good idea ?

Thanks again ! Those look amazing and I bet the system sounds amazing too.
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post #98 of 108 Old 07-18-2018, 12:41 PM
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Can PL Premium be used to attach the port tubes and Speakon connector mount?
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post #99 of 108 Old 07-18-2018, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger8mush View Post
Can PL Premium be used to attach the port tubes and Speakon connector mount?
FWIW I just built some car subs, ported using PVC pipe. What I used as adhesive that worked the best is JB Weld (it is sandable when cured). Searching on the magic box showed other ideas are to use PL premium as you ask. One suggestion not mentioned here that I saw is to rough up the area with sandpaper where the adhesive will be applied. That gives it a surface to grab on to. At least that is the theory.

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post #100 of 108 Old 06-10-2019, 07:55 AM
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PA460-8 18" NearField Sub Build From Newbie

Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
I took FR readings for others to see the response of box. These are taken with Cross over set highest (200Hz).
After a year, how are you liking this build nearfield? I’m thinking of going back to an MBM with a PA driver tuned a lot higher than my current boxes for nearfield, but I’m mostly movies, so not sure I’d gain all that much.

My current nearfield drivers tuned at 21Hz are pretty solid above 30Hz anyway, but I keep hearing PA drivers have a different dynamic quality and of course tuning them higher will provide a lot more TR in the midbass above 50Hz. I’ve modeled a lot of drivers in WinISD including my current ones in higher tunes and various size boxes, the PA380, PA460, and even the beastly B&C 21DS115 in all different sizes and tunes; but I’m having trouble deciding what would benefit me the most for what I’m looking for. Not sure I’ll know until I try something different out.

Thanks,
Scott

Edit: think I’ll keep what I have for now, added some EQ above 45Hz and recalibrated and am still pretty dang happy with my current setup.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 06-10-2019 at 09:03 AM.
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post #101 of 108 Old 06-12-2019, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
After a year, how are you liking this build nearfield? I’m thinking of going back to an MBM with a PA driver tuned a lot higher than my current boxes for nearfield, but I’m mostly movies, so not sure I’d gain all that much.

My current nearfield drivers tuned at 21Hz are pretty solid above 30Hz anyway, but I keep hearing PA drivers have a different dynamic quality and of course tuning them higher will provide a lot more TR in the midbass above 50Hz. I’ve modeled a lot of drivers in WinISD including my current ones in higher tunes and various size boxes, the PA380, PA460, and even the beastly B&C 21DS115 in all different sizes and tunes; but I’m having trouble deciding what would benefit me the most for what I’m looking for. Not sure I’ll know until I try something different out.

Thanks,
Scott

Edit: think I’ll keep what I have for now, added some EQ above 45Hz and recalibrated and am still pretty dang happy with my current setup.

Not using it. I build BOSS and very happy with it. Now, I use 2 Mini Marty in my room with 1 in the back and 1 on front and seats are on BOSS and I get great results. Did you try out BOSS. If not give it a shot

Here is the thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...y-theater.html
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post #102 of 108 Old 06-12-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Not using it. I build BOSS and very happy with it. Now, I use 2 Mini Marty in my room with 1 in the back and 1 on front and seats are on BOSS and I get great results. Did you try out BOSS. If not give it a shot



Here is the thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...y-theater.html

I’ve built two BOSS risers in the last few months; it is awesome.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
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post #103 of 108 Old 06-12-2019, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I’ve built two BOSS risers in the last few months; it is awesome.
And you still feel the need for NF ?
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post #104 of 108 Old 06-12-2019, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
And you still feel the need for NF ?
Hahaha. @Sekosche is a bit of a NF maniac. And I mean that in a very good way. I believe this is what he is currently running for NF, unless he has switched it up again.

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post #105 of 108 Old 06-12-2019, 08:51 PM
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Hahaha. @Sekosche is a bit of a NF maniac. And I mean that in a very good way. I believe this is what he is currently running for NF, unless he has switched it up again.

Moooooar bass in my bones makes me happy! Still running this setup and it really is awesome. Looking into some 21” B&C drivers for the end game, but I’m in no rush. It’s my passion and addiction.
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Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
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post #106 of 108 Old 06-13-2019, 11:12 AM
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Moooooar bass in my bones makes me happy! Still running this setup and it really is awesome. Looking into some 21” B&C drivers for the end game, but I’m in no rush. It’s my passion and addiction.
Thats crazy man. And you have Crowsons under the BOSS.
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post #107 of 108 Old 06-14-2019, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Hahaha. @Sekosche is a bit of a NF maniac. And I mean that in a very good way. I believe this is what he is currently running for NF, unless he has switched it up again.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Moooooar bass in my bones makes me happy! Still running this setup and it really is awesome. Looking into some 21” B&C drivers for the end game, but I’m in no rush. It’s my passion and addiction.
Insane. Just insane. How many are u running far field. I am running 2 mini marty subs with 1 65" in the back and 1 on the front wall. I used to run bass as 12-13dB hot and always had issues with wife complaining. After Boss, I'm running 5-7 and still very happy with it. I could just never get satisfaction with NF subs. Just felt like it was shaking more than the sound it needed to produce. I get all the shake I need from Boss and then main subs for sound. May be I just could never get NF subs set properly. What is it that NF sub is doing that Boss couldn't?
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post #108 of 108 Old 06-15-2019, 01:41 PM
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Insane. Just insane. How many are u running far field. I am running 2 mini marty subs with 1 65" in the back and 1 on the front wall. I used to run bass as 12-13dB hot and always had issues with wife complaining. After Boss, I'm running 5-7 and still very happy with it. I could just never get satisfaction with NF subs. Just felt like it was shaking more than the sound it needed to produce. I get all the shake I need from Boss and then main subs for sound. May be I just could never get NF subs set properly. What is it that NF sub is doing that Boss couldn't?

It‘s definitely insane when ran full tilt. I don’t run my bass as hot these days either (+8dB), but I do obviously like a lot of TR below 30-40Hz.

I finally have plenty of TR below 40Hz now with the BOSS and MA’s, so I think more nearfield chest slam is what I’m after again above 40-50Hz, but I don’t want to sacrifice anything below either. Proper balance with the far fields is important or it can definitely be localized or boomy sounding. The added nearfield SPL translates into a deeper form of TR to me from the ported sub’s higher particle velocity that really penetrates the bones and gets body parts resonating. Something that excites the senses and adds to my home theater experience...for me anyway, the wife not so much.

I’m a little all over the place now deciding exactly what I want to do next, but the BOSS has definitely satisfied the need for infrasonic TR in this room, and overall the system does sound and feel excellent to me. Think it’s just more of a tinkering with a project/hobby thing for me to see what my preferences really are no matter how many times I say I’m done. I’ve made so many changes in the last few years it’s hard to keep track, but I really do enjoy learning and building audio gear as long as there’s time in between to enjoy it all as well.

There’s also a Marty cube with a 460HO in the back right corner not currently hooked up, but the front of the room looks like this with PSA V1801 subs and speakers:

Hope your enjoying your setup!

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
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