PA460-8 18" NearField Sub Build From Newbie - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 108 Old 05-27-2018, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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PA460-8 18" NearField Sub Build From Newbie

This is my first build thread. I'll be building a nearfield sub using PA 460 driver. A very very special thank to John aka @LTD02 who designed it for me and also provided tons of guide/advice. I'm going to put it all together. I know there are many threads showing how to build subs but may be not too many from those who are building the sub very first time. I thought a lot before I started this journey and was very sceptical about it. Didn't know if I'd be able to do it specially knowing that I had no prior wood work experience. So in this thread I'll try to put the information together for those who are willing to building their first sub.

Those who are reading this and planning to build the first time, go for it . Its a lot of fun.

So why build my own sub. This one is not exactly my very first DIY. I did 2 Mini Marty before this but in that case I purchased that flat packs and only had to glue them together. The only tools I needed for that was glue and clamps. When I built the Mini Marty, I was very happy to see that I put a sub together myself . I had to spent a lot of time later on to make it work perfectly but all that process made me learn a lot. I also got to know many other avs memebers here. @notnyt , @eng-399 among a few who helped me work out some issues I had. There are so many avs members with lots of in depth knowledge and ready to share with us. Building sub and getting to know all these amazing members is priceless. Plus, Its hard to explain the feelings but its just amazing when you put the efforts to build your own sub (or speaker) and hear your sub producing this amazing bass. I love my Mini Marty subs. They give me goose bumps. It does all I expected and more. But I wanted more midbass. Don't get me wrong, these subs produce super punchy bass and hits you hard in the chest but I kept on reading that nothing can come closo to what a NF sub can do. So, why not build one from scratch for NF sub right and here we are. I don't know if its going to be a successful build but I know for sure it will be a lot of fun. I also don't know if I'm going to end up using this sub as NF in my HT since I'm VERY satisfied with my mini Marty but I'm very curious to see what it can do.

After I decided that I wanted, I emailed LTD02 and he was kind enough to respond and then many more emails to follow. Finally, we decided that we'll go with PA460 dirver and desing a NF sub that fits the space I have in my room. Generally, subs are rectangular shape but not this one. You'll see the pics later that shows that its not all rectangular. Since it will be used NF and I have 55" of space b/w MLP and back door, I asked LTD02 to design the box to maximize the space usage. This sub narrows down as its going from bottom to top so that the bottom can be placed very to the bottom of seat and top is angulated 15 degrees so that the seat can easily be reclined. Here are some pics that LTD02 provided.







Driver

I purchased the driver, screws and port from part express
Driver: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-036

Screws for Driver: https://www.parts-express.com/parts-...1nk00s3dy0005c
2 Ports: https://www.parts-express.com/precis...e-kit--268-352







As compared to UXL 18 driver I have in Mini Marty, this one is super light. I even placed it on top of the stand I use for my mic and had no issue . This assures that it will be very easy to move the box around. Awesome.

Update: Here is the final product. If you would like to see more pics of final product, here is the link
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post56322404

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Last edited by harrisu; 06-10-2018 at 11:43 AM.
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post #2 of 108 Old 05-27-2018, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Tools
As a starter, I was very concerned about making sure to cut the pieces straight. I started a thread to get some advice. Here is the thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-purcahse.html. Following are the tools I ended up getting
Circular Saw: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Circular Saw Guide: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Circular Saw Blade: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I could also get table saw but it seemed like an over-kill. I did have to spend some time with getting the saw to work well with guide (learning curve) but once I got the hang of it, together they made the cut easy and precise.

The part that was most concerning for me was cutting the circles out in baffle wall. Most here have routers and it makes the job much easier. Since I already have Jigsaw, I decided to use that instead. To cut perfect circles, I purchased the Jigsaw guide for like $15. I had to spend some time to get the hang of it but with it, I was successfully able to cut the circles. Besides these, you'd need a marker (or pencil), a scaler, tap measurement, stands and foam to make table to cut on. Here is the pic of all the tools I used





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post #3 of 108 Old 05-27-2018, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Instructions given by LTD02 and plan to follow

Quote:
front face of baffle 32.61" x 28.5" (15 degree angle on across the top and bottom)
total height is slightly higher with the 15 degree angle
see image for driver and port location
top 11.56" x 30.0"
bottom 20.0" x 30.0"
2 sides [trapezoidal] 20.0" (at the bottom) x 31.5" (height) x 11.56" (at the top)
back 28.5" x 31.5"
Here is the Baffle wall



more instructions from LTD02 regaring Front wall

Quote:
If you look carefully, you can see the angled portion of the baffle on top. Since the baffle slopes back, the top rear of the panel is higher than the top front edge.


32.61" is the height of the front surface. The little nib that sticks up in the back will make the total height a little higher than that.


To cut accurately:
1. make a horizontal pass at 15 degrees cutting from left to right so the angle is going **under** the panel.
2. measure 32.61" and draw a line
3. make a horizontal pass at 15 degrees cutting from left to right again
Cutting the pieces

I wrote down the plan on a piece of paper to follow.



Cutting the Back,Bottom,Top and Front were straight. Front has a 15 degrees cut on top as well. Wasn't hard to get. Circular saw allows to angle it. All I had to do was to angle it to 15 degrees and cut it. One thing to keep in mind here though is to to first cut this 15 degrees angle and then cut all other sides. Its much easier this way.







Sides were a bit harder and took a few tries before I got them right.



Next up: cutting the circles in baffle wall. This was was the hardest for me. I don't have the router so I had to make sure that do it properly using Jigsaw. I used the guide that I purchased for Jigsaw but when I tried it, it didn't work very well at first. To make sure I don't screw up the Front baffle, I decided to try the guide on a sample. Guide assured to move jigsaw in circular shape but I was having trouble using it properly. It was getting out of track slowly. I purchased a few blades from home depot to use with jigsaw and guess what, I broke 2 of them . The reason was that I was forcing jigsaw to stay straight and I should have been forcing it to constantly stay in rotation. This forced the jigsaw to slowly get off the track and eventually the blade tilted enough and broke. Finally, I decided to put the guide away and try out purely using Jigsaw. I drew the circle (which was another challenge) and then slowly followed the line. While I was doing it, I realized that I had to constantly and very slowly rotate Jigsaw to follow the circle. Hmmm... may be I should have done that with the guide as well. After successfully cutting the circle, I decided to give another try to the guide and this time I decided to first draw the circle and the use the guide. Then I following the circle with guide on and there it is. Much better.

To draw the circle, I used a piece of wood. Pinned it in the center and made sure its length is equal to the diameter of circle and drew it.



Next challenge was to get the Jigsaw blade to the circle I drew. For that, I drilled a hole near the circle big enough to get the blade in and slowly moved it towards the circle and then angled it to follow the drawing.





After that, slowly follow the drawing. I used marker to draw since it makes it much easier to see and follow. I kept one hand on the back of jigsaw to constantly keep it in rotational angle.

Here is after cutting the driver space





Now comes the ports. I followed the same instructions. Measure, mark and then cut.





and finally here is the complete baffle wall



Next up: Glue the pieces and work on bracing
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Last edited by harrisu; 05-27-2018 at 01:21 PM.
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post #4 of 108 Old 05-27-2018, 12:39 PM
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Looking good. Don't rely on those t-squares to be straight, though. Always measure your offset cuts from multiple places and connect them with a line.
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post #5 of 108 Old 05-27-2018, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Looking good. Don't rely on those t-squares to be straight, though. Always measure your offset cuts from multiple places and connect them with a line.
I think I got lucky. I marked and measure and everything seemed spot on
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post #6 of 108 Old 05-27-2018, 04:40 PM
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great post(s) and great job on the circle cutouts. i hope that you double checked all the sizes first!


many builds are by really advanced guys, so its nice to a see one from someone starting from scratch--helps to inspire other guys in the same boat.

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post #7 of 108 Old 05-27-2018, 06:42 PM
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I have three T-squares and they're all crooked. Worse yet, I have 10 rulers that all vary a little bit. Key is to use the same one for everything. At least it will all be consistently off.

I cut all my driver holes freehand with the jigsaw. And I have a Jasper jig. The router just takes too damn long and makes a pile of dust. Following a line with the jigsaw is not very hard. And it's not like the hole needs to be perfect. My router is for edge work only now.
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post #8 of 108 Old 05-27-2018, 07:40 PM
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Echo the great job on the holes. How do you guys do it? My jigsaw holes look like a three-year-old's coloring book.
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post #9 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Echo the great job on the holes. How do you guys do it? My jigsaw holes look like a three-year-old's coloring book.
cutting out driver holes in mdf can be tough, if you use an aggressive blade it can get away from you in a hurry. I have had great success using metal blades for more control. Also, cheap jigsaws jump around and rattle a ton, one of those things I suggest spending a little extra on. Don't over extend, move the piece not yourself, and a nice steady pace should net decent results.

OP, great photos and progress, look forward to your results.
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post #10 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegaMan View Post
cutting out driver holes in mdf can be tough, if you use an aggressive blade it can get away from you in a hurry. I have had great success using metal blades for more control. Also, cheap jigsaws jump around and rattle a ton, one of those things I suggest spending a little extra on. Don't over extend, move the piece not yourself, and a nice steady pace should net decent results.

OP, great photos and progress, look forward to your results.

Thank you! I've got a decent jigsaw (DeWalt) but the blades I've used have all been aggressive; large teeth. And that's just it, it often "gets away" and I have to "make it back". Great tip on using a metal blade. Never would have thought of it.


You have to look really close at the OP's pictures for any evidence that it was a jigsaw that cut the holes. Great job.
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post #11 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
At least it will all be consistently off.
LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
How do you guys do it? My jigsaw holes look like a three-year-old's coloring book.
have a good outline. then just go easy and pay attention to what your doing.

oh. i do router my holes. but i cut the straights with a circular saw free hand.
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@LTD02 , @notnyt , I'll be using PL Pro Line 3x Premium glue that notnyt suggested when I was building Mini Marty. I have a question on gluing the side panel with bottom. Since side panel is a trapezoidal, I can only clamp it from back to bottom but the front part of side panel can't be clamped due to its angulation. Any suggestions on how to clamp the front part of it with bottom?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
@LTD02, @notnyt, I'll be using PL Pro Line 3x Premium glue that notnyt suggested when I was building Mini Marty. I have a question on gluing the side panel with bottom. Since side panel is a trapezoidal, I can only clamp it from back to bottom but the front part of side panel can't be clamped due to its angulation. Any suggestions on how to clamp the front part of it with bottom?


clamp in port cutouts?

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post #14 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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clamp in port cutouts?
Port cut outs are on baffle wall. Question is regarding side walls . Side walls have no cut outs.
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post #15 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
great post(s) and great job on the circle cutouts. i hope that you double checked all the sizes first!
Just to show that the measurements worked fine, I placed the driver and the port on the baffle wall to see how they fit. Here is a glimpse of final product. Hopefully all the pieces will come together properly



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabricator View Post
have a good outline. then just go easy and pay attention to what your doing.
Totally agreed. I practiced like 5 times before I cut the driver shape in baffle wall. Had it tired it right away, I would have screwed things up. Marking first is VERY IMPORTANT. Also make sure to use a thick marker. Makes it very easy to follow along. Pencil is just not thick enough.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Echo the great job on the holes. How do you guys do it? My jigsaw holes look like a three-year-old's coloring book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegaMan View Post
OP, great photos and progress, look forward to your results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
You have to look really close at the OP's pictures for any evidence that it was a jigsaw that cut the holes. Great job.
Thx guys. I was very skeptical at first but things are turning out fine so far. To make sure the circle cut is clean, I practiced many times to make sure things go fine in the final cut . Also, don't rush into cutting it. Take your time and slowly move the jigsaw. Also, as I posted earlier, mark the circle first with a thick marker to follow the jigsaw on.
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this design really got my attention as i have similar issues wrt my recliner. right now behind it is a 24 x 18 x 72 BFM THTLP but the width at the top 24" limits the recline.

my question is what FR is this designed to put out?

the taper and 28 length - i could put 2 of them back there but I'd like them to dig a little deeper than the sub that's there. I can accommodate the 20" depth of the base.
the 31" height is also no issue as the seat measures 36: mostly upright. it's the taper that's would do the trick . .

for a 100 ft^2 room, getting "better' or even "good" sub response is a fools game but I think I could do some serious damage with an Inuke NU4 and a minidsp2x4 .

if a slight increase in volume gets me deeper then I could easily go up to 36" wide.

this is my current best bass REW response. pretty smooth but just runs out of steam, as they are designed to do. that's the lower limit on the sweep. I didn't want to cause any damage

for most music,techno, EDM and stuff on Hearts of Space, this is totally overpowering, even with just the 2 BASH amps (the other sub is a 30" THTLP in the front right corner.)

The dual PA460 MBM John designed for me kicks major but in my living room and

This build and its documentation has given me a springtime itch.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
@LTD02 , @notnyt , I'll be using PL Pro Line 3x Premium glue that notnyt suggested when I was building Mini Marty. I have a question on gluing the side panel with bottom. Since side panel is a trapezoidal, I can only clamp it from back to bottom but the front part of side panel can't be clamped due to its angulation. Any suggestions on how to clamp the front part of it with bottom?
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post #20 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 01:09 PM
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using 3/4" ply, I'd overdo it with Kreg screws on the back of the baffle into the sides, top and bottom.

and PL3X.

the brads could stabilize it . .

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post #21 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright guys, I got into an issue. I think I followed @LTD02 design up close but kinda messed up a bit. I decided to put the pieces together to see how the overall design is coming. Turned out that baffle wall is short by 1/8". Errrrr. So we have two options.

1 - Cut the baffle wall again (Very long process)
2 - Cut all the other walls by 1/8". (Much easier).

What's the issue if I go with 2nd option?







This is where the Bottom of Baffle wall is


And this is what was needed (Measured from the top including the tap)

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post #22 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 04:31 PM
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Go with option 2 or glue a piece of mdf inside the box to area where you have that gap and then fill the gap that's now blocked from the inside with bondo or drywall mud. Looks good so far
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post #23 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
this design really got my attention as i have similar issues wrt my recliner. right now behind it is a 24 x 18 x 72 BFM THTLP but the width at the top 24" limits the recline.

my question is what FR is this designed to put out?
Here you go. Its the top line in Bold for this box

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post #24 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
@LTD02 , @notnyt , I'll be using PL Pro Line 3x Premium glue that notnyt suggested when I was building Mini Marty. I have a question on gluing the side panel with bottom. Since side panel is a trapezoidal, I can only clamp it from back to bottom but the front part of side panel can't be clamped due to its angulation. Any suggestions on how to clamp the front part of it with bottom?


Nice project and awsome job with the jigsaw. I recently did a similar enclosure job, only a sealed 4x12" design, but similar obstacles building the box.

You could do what i did, combining several clamps to hold down the side plates, like so:

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post #25 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 05:21 PM
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the tiny gaps at the sides and bottom, a PL3X bead on the inside will will easily swell, seal and cement the joint,
that's what it does and why many here consider it a go to for DIY slicers and dicers.

the top gap?

put in a temporary stop block or 2 to make sure it hits the mark

a huge bead on the inside, smushed into the gap with a disposable glove covered finger
and ditto on the outside.

after about and hour or so, use a putty knife to trim smooth a bit on the outside bead that is swelling up / squeezing out.

as a ported cab, the ports will be where any air wants to go most readily

that pic is just regular squeeze out

HTH
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post #26 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 05:38 PM
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if you choose to cut an 1/8 off the other panels, it won't impact performance in any way.


it looks like the 32.61" in the plan would have hit it perfect, so it was probably just a case of not compensating for the blade when cutting. no biggie.
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post #27 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 05:39 PM
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Cut an 1/8 strip to fit in there, glue it in place during assembly. not a big deal. Either that, or recut the baffle.
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post #28 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 07:16 PM
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You might be able to find a piece of trim molding that will fit in that gap.

No point in trimming the other panels. If you're going to cut an 1/8 inch, it might as well only be one to fill the gap instead of all three panels.

Last edited by Samps; 05-28-2018 at 07:45 PM.
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post #29 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
if you choose to cut an 1/8 off the other panels, it won't impact performance in any way.


it looks like the 32.61" in the plan would have hit it perfect, so it was probably just a case of not compensating for the blade when cutting. no biggie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Cut an 1/8 strip to fit in there, glue it in place during assembly. not a big deal. Either that, or recut the baffle.
Ok I cut the pieces. Looks much better. Still some very small gaps that I can either try to fix or just use some Filler may be to fill them??? See pics below. Should I try to fix these small gaps or use some filler? The problematic areas are top right front/back.

Update: Just saw this video on youtube. I even have this wood filler. Seems like it will do the job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
You might be able to find a piece of trim molding that will fit in that gap.

No point in trimming the other panels. If you're going to cut an 1/8 inch, it might as well only be one to fill the gap instead of all three panels.
Sorry I saw your post after I had already cut them I actually did cut a very small piece to fill but wasn't very comfortable with a very tiny piece glued up. I'm sure that after gluing, it wouldn't have caused any issue but just felt better to cut the other pieces.

Front pic


Top right up close


Top right back


Since front baffle top is 15 degrees cut, from inside its completely sealed. I took this pic from inside pointing to top right which has gap from outside.
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Last edited by harrisu; 05-28-2018 at 09:46 PM.
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post #30 of 108 Old 05-28-2018, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
the tiny gaps at the sides and bottom, a PL3X bead on the inside will will easily swell, seal and cement the joint,
that's what it does and why many here consider it a go to for DIY slicers and dicers.

the top gap?

put in a temporary stop block or 2 to make sure it hits the mark

a huge bead on the inside, smushed into the gap with a disposable glove covered finger
and ditto on the outside.

after about and hour or so, use a putty knife to trim smooth a bit on the outside bead that is swelling up / squeezing out.

as a ported cab, the ports will be where any air wants to go most readily

that pic is just regular squeeze out

HTH
The gaps on sides and bottom is also because I didn't tide the clamp too much. I'm sure with PL3X, they will go away. What is that stuff coming out in the pic you uploaded?
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