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post #31 of 79 Old 06-15-2018, 07:48 PM
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We are missing pictures from this thread.
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post #32 of 79 Old 06-15-2018, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Either way you're gonna have to buy and run new lines and purchase a breaker. in regards to material, the cost difference is minimal.
Agreed 100%. No offense to bebb or anyone else but this thread is anecdotal. Even if you have a 20A run to a nuke6k it isn't necessarily optimal. There are things that come into play that haven't been mentioned like the number and quality of the mechanical connections, length of wire, rating of panel, length of run to the transformer and the transmission line itself. Power line feeds from panel should be designed for overhead just the same as amplifier power to the sub.

In my testing of the NU6000DSP a maximum clean output of a sine wave at 30Hz into a resistive load measured over 30A going into the amp. This is obviously a worst case scenario and things will change when a dynamic load is connected and the sub is calibrated to whatever size room is being used and real world content is being played but with the minimal cost of #12 vs. #10 wire, it's well worth planning for the worst case scenario and enjoying the overhead.

If you're reaching the current limits of a power line due to a series of mechanical connections, length of run or other equipment using the feed, the result will be the amp going into clip before it reaches it's maximum output potential. Since the only way to fully test for this means investing in a decent arsenal of tools and expertise in using them, it's best to plan for a worst case scenario and spend the extra $40.
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post #33 of 79 Old 06-16-2018, 05:16 AM
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This might be a atupid questions, but this discussion has me curious. Ive tried googling several times, but cant find what im looking for.

How would you plug a standard cord into a 30 amp recepticle (120v)? Or are there 30 amp outlets with the standard plug config? Do you use an adapter?

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post #34 of 79 Old 06-16-2018, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BryceDH View Post
This might be a atupid questions, but this discussion has me curious. Ive tried googling several times, but cant find what im looking for.

How would you plug a standard cord into a 30 amp recepticle (120v)? Or are there 30 amp outlets with the standard plug config? Do you use an adapter?

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post #35 of 79 Old 06-16-2018, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE! sigh

Really bodged things today. I got a replacement UM18, now that they are back in stock. To break it in, I decided to loop Bass Test 100 Hz to 5 Hz Ultimate Subwoofer Bass Test from youtube. I had the volume set at -20dB and the first two inuke lights lit steady. Came back after about an hour, turned it up to -12 dB to where the red LED just started flickering on the verge of clipping. Went downstairs (the subs are in the basement) to check on them. The one UM had a death rattle. The replacement UM18 had nothing. Both speakers hot around the voice coil area. Went back upstairs and the amp had the led ring around the gain knobs red. Reset the amp. Same thing. Disconnected both speakers, amp lights show the amp to be working. Connect the speakers, amp goes red around gain knobs. Lesson? INukes CAN kill UM18s when dedicated bass tracks played, Occasional high output from movies is OK.
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post #36 of 79 Old 06-16-2018, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebb View Post
Really bodged things today. I got a replacement UM18, now that they are back in stock. To break it in, I decided to loop Bass Test 100 Hz to 5 Hz Ultimate Subwoofer Bass Test from youtube. I had the volume set at -20dB and the first two inuke lights lit steady. Came back after about an hour, turned it up to -12 dB to where the red LED just started flickering on the verge of clipping. Went downstairs (the subs are in the basement) to check on them. The one UM had a death rattle. The replacement UM18 had nothing. Both speakers hot around the voice coil area. Went back upstairs and the amp had the led ring around the gain knobs red. Reset the amp. Same thing. Disconnected both speakers, amp lights show the amp to be working. Connect the speakers, amp goes red around gain knobs. Lesson? INukes CAN kill UM18s when dedicated bass tracks played, Occasional high output from movies is OK.
Apparently they're not making the UM18-22 like they used to. I never had a problem with mine connected to an Inuke6000dsp in a very large ported cab. I don't think I'd touch one for a while.
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post #37 of 79 Old 06-16-2018, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebb View Post
Really bodged things today. I got a replacement UM18, now that they are back in stock. To break it in, I decided to loop Bass Test 100 Hz to 5 Hz Ultimate Subwoofer Bass Test from youtube. I had the volume set at -20dB and the first two inuke lights lit steady. Came back after about an hour, turned it up to -12 dB to where the red LED just started flickering on the verge of clipping. Went downstairs (the subs are in the basement) to check on them. The one UM had a death rattle. The replacement UM18 had nothing. Both speakers hot around the voice coil area. Went back upstairs and the amp had the led ring around the gain knobs red. Reset the amp. Same thing. Disconnected both speakers, amp lights show the amp to be working. Connect the speakers, amp goes red around gain knobs. Lesson? INukes CAN kill UM18s when dedicated bass tracks played, Occasional high output from movies is OK.


Sounds like you ran it into clipping again and fried the amp as well when the sub fried.


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post #38 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryceDH View Post
This might be a atupid questions, but this discussion has me curious. Ive tried googling several times, but cant find what im looking for.

How would you plug a standard cord into a 30 amp recepticle (120v)? Or are there 30 amp outlets with the standard plug config? Do you use an adapter?

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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
You need this.

I found these when researching


https://www.amazon.com/Proline-Power.../dp/B01N758X4D
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post #39 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 05:03 AM
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But if you've gone through the time and effort of installing a dedicated 30a circuit, why would you use one of these?

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post #40 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
But if you've gone through the time and effort of installing a dedicated 30a circuit, why would you use one of these?

How else would you plug an inuke 6000dsp into the 30amp socket?
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post #41 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 11:28 AM
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How else would you plug an inuke 6000dsp into the 30amp socket?
By changing the plug of course

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post #42 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 11:29 AM
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By changing the plug of course



Well let's assume we like to keep the warranty valid. You will need an adapter.
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post #43 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 11:45 AM
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Well let's assume we like to keep the warranty valid. You will need an adapter.
True. But most people with Inukes seem not to be concerned with warranty because the first thing they do is change out the fans. Besides, a 20a circuit is adequate for an Inuke 6000dsp.
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post #44 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 12:57 PM
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So if I run an iNuke6k on a 15a breaker, will bad things happen?
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post #45 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 01:12 PM
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So if I run an iNuke6k on a 15a breaker, will bad things happen?
No. But clipping the inuke on any circuit is bad.

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post #46 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 01:13 PM
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Driver break in should be done outside the box. And not with a varying frequency. The point is to stretch the suspension to make it more flexible. So you want a frequency where the driver is moving the most with the least amount of voltage. Usually near the FS of the driver. You shouldn't see any lights on the inuke.

Your break in process didn't break in the driver, it just broke the driver.
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post #47 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Trimlock View Post
Sounds like you ran it into clipping again and fried the amp as well when the sub fried.


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Nah, the amp is fine. It went into protection mode. It is smarter than the operator and saved itself.
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post #48 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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So if I run an iNuke6k on a 15a breaker, will bad things happen?
No. You may just trip the breaker if pushing it.
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post #49 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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We are missing pictures from this thread.
I'll take some when I disassemble. When I move the cones it sounds crunchy so I am curious what damage was done. I just don't have the heart to take apart yet.
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post #50 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 06:25 PM
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The amp went into protect mode due to the coil in the driver shorting out when it failed. Same as connecting the positive and negative wires together.
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post #51 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
Agreed 100%. No offense to bebb or anyone else but this thread is anecdotal. Even if you have a 20A run to a nuke6k it isn't necessarily optimal. There are things that come into play that haven't been mentioned like the number and quality of the mechanical connections, length of wire, rating of panel, length of run to the transformer and the transmission line itself. Power line feeds from panel should be designed for overhead just the same as amplifier power to the sub.

In my testing of the NU6000DSP a maximum clean output of a sine wave at 30Hz into a resistive load measured over 30A going into the amp. This is obviously a worst case scenario and things will change when a dynamic load is connected and the sub is calibrated to whatever size room is being used and real world content is being played but with the minimal cost of #12 vs. #10 wire, it's well worth planning for the worst case scenario and enjoying the overhead.

If you're reaching the current limits of a power line due to a series of mechanical connections, length of run or other equipment using the feed, the result will be the amp going into clip before it reaches it's maximum output potential. Since the only way to fully test for this means investing in a decent arsenal of tools and expertise in using them, it's best to plan for a worst case scenario and spend the extra $40.
No offense taken. You bring up valid points. Thanks for sharing your quantitative results, as mine are anecdotal.
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post #52 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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The amp went into protect mode due to the coil in the driver shorting out when it failed. Same as connecting the positive and negative wires together.
yup.
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post #53 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Apparently they're not making the UM18-22 like they used to. I never had a problem with mine connected to an Inuke6000dsp in a very large ported cab. I don't think I'd touch one for a while.
Yeah, I ordered some Ficar Audio SSD neo 18's as replacements. They model decent in the same cabs when ported. Not a whole lot more with the UM18 price increase and they handle 750 more watts RMS.
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post #54 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 06:55 PM
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Yeah, I ordered some Ficar Audio SSD neo 18's as replacements. They model decent in the same cabs when ported. Not a whole lot more with the UM18 price increase and they handle 750 more watts RMS.
Wow! You've been very active.

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post #55 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 07:53 PM
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No. But clipping the inuke on any circuit is bad.

Clipping = turning the amp up high enough that it's trying to pull more power from the outlet than the outlet can provide?
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post #56 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 08:02 PM
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Clipping = turning the amp up high enough that it's trying to pull more power from the outlet than the outlet can provide?
No. Clipping is when the amp is been driven beyond its output voltage or current maximum capability.
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post #57 of 79 Old 06-17-2018, 08:24 PM
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INukes CAN kill UM18s when dedicated bass tracks played, Occasional high output from movies is OK.
Yeess.


I always advise folks around here not to learn the hard way by using sustained synthetic test signals as this is a torture test for subs and amps and should only be used when you have a thorough understanding of your system's limits. I hate to hear that you damaged another driver and put your amplifier in harm's way. Let's analyze what happened a bit...

This is "BIGGEST BASS DROP EVER! (EXTREME BASS TEST!!!)":


This is "
Bass Test 100 Hz to 5 Hz Ultimate Subwoofer Bass Test":


I'm guessing you put your UM's in 4 cube flatpacks in which case here is the impedance curve:


Looking at the above, if you're tripping breakers that quickly and melting coils with the biggest bass drop test which has fundamentals centered at 38-48Hz which has a fairly high impedance that your amp sees, this means you are turning the level up WAAAAAAAY too much. You are expecting too much output from your system in comparison to how much you've invested in it is my guess.

Then because your average levels that you push your sub system are too high obviously you'll run into problems when you reach impedance minimums, power goes up and your source material is synthetic sine tones. You either need to decrease the listening levels or put more into your amplifier power, driver's coil power rating and overall displacement.

I don't think that anyone should listen to these ridiculous youtube sub "test" tracks. They are put together by people who are ignorant to the basic principles of mixing audio, they don't tell you anything about your system and almost everything they create is more dangerous than a song that would come out of a production studio.
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post #58 of 79 Old 06-18-2018, 12:04 PM
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It doesn't help that the source video played was clipping either. A lot of the bass boosting channels don't pay attention to quality. Not trying to self promote, so I'll leave it at that. Sorry to hear the ultimax died but at least you had fun.
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post #59 of 79 Old 06-20-2018, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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It doesn't help that the source video played was clipping either. A lot of the bass boosting channels don't pay attention to quality. Not trying to self promote, so I'll leave it at that. Sorry to hear the ultimax died but at least you had fun.
More than a person is entitled to.
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post #60 of 79 Old 06-20-2018, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
Yeess.


I always advise folks around here not to learn the hard way by using sustained synthetic test signals as this is a torture test for subs and amps and should only be used when you have a thorough understanding of your system's limits. I hate to hear that you damaged another driver and put your amplifier in harm's way. Let's analyze what happened a bit...

This is "BIGGEST BASS DROP EVER! (EXTREME BASS TEST!!!)":


This is "
Bass Test 100 Hz to 5 Hz Ultimate Subwoofer Bass Test":


I'm guessing you put your UM's in 4 cube flatpacks in which case here is the impedance curve:


Looking at the above, if you're tripping breakers that quickly and melting coils with the biggest bass drop test which has fundamentals centered at 38-48Hz which has a fairly high impedance that your amp sees, this means you are turning the level up WAAAAAAAY too much. You are expecting too much output from your system in comparison to how much you've invested in it is my guess.

Then because your average levels that you push your sub system are too high obviously you'll run into problems when you reach impedance minimums, power goes up and your source material is synthetic sine tones. You either need to decrease the listening levels or put more into your amplifier power, driver's coil power rating and overall displacement.

I don't think that anyone should listen to these ridiculous youtube sub "test" tracks. They are put together by people who are ignorant to the basic principles of mixing audio, they don't tell you anything about your system and almost everything they create is more dangerous than a song that would come out of a production studio.
Great analysis! Thanks for taking the time.
Actually I mounted the subs in about 10cu ft sealed (see pic) in the basement for whole house tactile feel. My version of WinISD shows max impedance at 25 Hz in this enclosure(first screen capture). However, the cone excursion exceeds 22mm below 22 Hz(see second screen capture). I know often times speakers can exceed xmax mechanically. Maybe the UMs can't in this particular case for as long as they did. The question is I don't know how much/quickly the amp output drops off below 20Hz, which is what the inuke is rated for frequency response wise. The cones were moving all the way down to 5Hz, which is where the bass test signal went. I don't remember the excursions being crazy down at the low frequencies.

You are correct in that one should not play these torture tests unless one is willing to accept that things may die. In this case my ultimaxes. The second run I turned things way down. Only two of the four LEDs on each channel on the inuke were lit. So I thought down at this level the subs would be OK. It was fun while it lasted. Ficar SSD neo subs will be up next.
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