Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 146 Old 11-15-2018, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
That’s awesome! Marty cube XXL?

So you’re building 4 of these now? You said it’s a big room, about how many cubic feet?

Maybe for my next room something similar in each corner would be adequate...I really need to get off these forums. So many great ideas!

I was very close to calling it the Cube XXL since there is the Cube XL lol. If I recall 36x24x7.5 in the 6500cuft region. One is still fun in there two will be good 4 should be scary The DIY section here is just one huge rabbit hole.... I don't think I have reach the singularity just yet

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

Last edited by Red Five; 11-15-2018 at 08:57 AM.
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post #62 of 146 Old 11-15-2018, 09:00 AM
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That's a badass cube, @Red Five ! We've got some great contributors here, but I'd be hard pressed to find one that's done more for the community overall than @LTD02 .
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post #63 of 146 Old 11-15-2018, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
I was very close to calling it the Cube XXL since there is the Cube XL lol. If I recall 36x24x7.5 in the 6500cuft region. One is still fun in there two will be good 4 should be scary The DIY section here is just one huge rabbit hole.... I don't think I have reach the singularity just yet
Yeah, and here I am with only a plan to add 12, 12" sealed drivers to my setup..... I haven't even reached the doorway of the rabbit hole yet, but unfortunately I'm already at the pain tolerance level of my wife....... Although I have debated building a riser for our sectional in the family room that would hide as many horns as possible hehehe.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
That's a badass cube, @Red Five ! We've got some great contributors here, but I'd be hard pressed to find one that's done more for the community overall than @LTD02 .
I second, and third that!

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post #64 of 146 Old 11-15-2018, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Indeed, John has been so helpful to so many. Now he started GSG making DIY subs more approachable to the broader forum community. Do you think the GSG Audio website could be pinned in the new to DIY thread?
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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #65 of 146 Old 11-15-2018, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Yeah, and here I am with only a plan to add 12, 12" sealed drivers to my setup..... I haven't even reached the doorway of the rabbit hole yet, but unfortunately I'm already at the pain tolerance level of my wife....... Although I have debated building a riser for our sectional in the family room that would hide as many horns as possible hehehe.......



I second, and third that!

Horns, hiding, sectional riser, you might have a foot in the netherworld

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #66 of 146 Old 11-15-2018, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Horns, hiding, sectional riser, you might have a foot in the netherworld
My head is there, but thats likely as far as it will go. My wife will likely not bite on a 12 or even 10" riser in the family room.


If I could have my druthers, I'd have her let me build my ultimate box which would be the following:

2 boxes, combined width of 110", depth of 14" for box, with 1" overhang on either side, height of 30", which ballpark gives me around 20cf.
Each box with 8 drivers in 2 rows of 4.
Each row would be wired by itself and powered by a individual amp.
All 4 amps would share a single dedicated 20 amp circuit.

That would be BOSS.... but it aint never happening.....

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post #67 of 146 Old 11-15-2018, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
My head is there, but thats likely as far as it will go. My wife will likely not bite on a 12 or even 10" riser in the family room.


If I could have my druthers, I'd have her let me build my ultimate box which would be the following:

2 boxes, combined width of 110", depth of 14" for box, with 1" overhang on either side, height of 30", which ballpark gives me around 20cf.
Each box with 8 drivers in 2 rows of 4.
Each row would be wired by itself and powered by a individual amp.
All 4 amps would share a single dedicated 20 amp circuit.

That would be BOSS.... but it aint never happening.....

That would be an excellent setup. What if you won the lottery, built a tornado/bomb/bass bunker under the backyard? The odds of getting struck by lightning in Alaska on a December day might be better, but we all have to have a dream.



It will probably take a few years before I can inch my way into four subs. If I can build two enclosures next summer and pickup a second 21 I will be very happy. The the second two will be a matter of waiting and then making the build go so fast the wife cannot figure out what is happening. Or I shrink down from towers to HTMs behind the screen the foot print will be smaller. Thus two subs will not be as bad later, maybe....

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #68 of 146 Old 11-17-2018, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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A crucial part of the design was missed - generic man, but no more!
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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #69 of 146 Old 11-18-2018, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Yeah, and here I am with only a plan to add 12, 12" sealed drivers to my setup..... I'm already at the pain tolerance level of my wife.......
Your SPL is 130db, but your WPL is 115. (Wife Pain tolerance Level )

Ask her how many Mach5 32" birthing-equivalences, is that?
(On second thought, maybe don't... )
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post #70 of 146 Old 12-03-2018, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Plans have taken a trajectory change, the home theater 6th order bandpass non-flared horn. Say it five times fast!

https://m.imgur.com/a/MSmya8V
https://m.imgur.com/a/ORMtoxC

More room for the screen, child resistant and more efficient without being an absolute monster A big thanks once again to John!

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #71 of 146 Old 12-03-2018, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Plans have taken a trajectory change, the home theater 6th order bandpass non-flared horn. Say it five times fast!

https://m.imgur.com/a/MSmya8V
https://m.imgur.com/a/ORMtoxC

More room for the screen, child resistant and more efficient without being an absolute monster A big thanks once again to John!
I like this change of plans horns just have such a clean sound to them. It's hard to explain.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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post #72 of 146 Old 12-03-2018, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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This horn setup is small enough to fit in the space. There are two points in which the driver is barely moving, 20Hz and 70Hz. Distortion should be less than the ported design, which already was so clean it could not be localized. The build will be awhile though, the cold and the wife is done for now with me building things

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #73 of 146 Old 12-03-2018, 08:26 PM
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That looks awesome! That's about the same size as the 15hz subs I built.
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post #74 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 08:15 AM
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Looks interesting. Dont know a single thing about horns. I finally got my pair of 21ds115-8. Would i be better pursuing one of these or sticking with a ported enclosure.
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post #75 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Ht6obpnfh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan668 View Post
Looks interesting. Dont know a single thing about horns. I finally got my pair of 21ds115-8. Would i be better pursuing one of these or sticking with a ported enclosure.



The light gray line is the ported enclosure the dark gray is this horn design. I believe SPL chart is calculated at 1w 1m, you can see how much of an edge the HT6OBPNFH has over the Stormbreaker cabinet.
Edit: Horns use science that is witchcraft/Chuck Norris tears to me. They typically get around a 12db boost across a wide range of bandwidth compared to a ported enclosure that usually sees a 6db gain around the tune. They tend to be large complicated beasts to build when tuned lower, like submaximus v3, so there is a trade off for the efficiency.
Edit: You can see this enclosure is a little bit of a hybrid, it has nice efficiency boosts around the two tunes of the front and back vents/chambers 20hz and 70hz. There might be a little bit of a null or a spike somewhere in the middle according to John. The 21DS115 has interesting inductance characteristics when selecting options for the hornresp simulation, so it might need a little eq.
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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

Last edited by Red Five; 12-04-2018 at 10:13 AM.
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post #76 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 10:10 AM
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post #77 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Ht6obpnfh (Home Theater 6th Order Band Pass Non Flared Horn)

I was going to wait to post this once I had the cutlist verified, but I will add it later The excursion is calculated on 2000 watts of power. On the simulation charts - light gray is a ported box, dark gray is the hybrid band pass horn. Once again, a big thanks to @LTD02 for his design work! I hope this design will meet the needs of a few people on the forum
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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

Last edited by Red Five; 12-04-2018 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Cone excursion
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post #78 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Pics aren’t working for me. :-(

The picture links broke on an edit. I added a new post with them all attached!
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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #79 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 10:28 AM
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That is a very interesting looking build. When are you going to make some sawdust fly on this one? It will be interesting to see how it sounds. That doesn't look like it will be to difficult of a build at least compared with some of the other horns.
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post #80 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_J View Post
That is a very interesting looking build. When are you going to make some sawdust fly on this one? It will be interesting to see how it sounds. That doesn't look like it will be to difficult of a build at least compared with some of the other horns.

No more sanding in the garage after the last build... I live in Wisconsin, it will probably be April before the weather outside is tolerable. For now it is the next step on the road map for the 21DS115.
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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #81 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 10:43 AM
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I hear you there. I live in MN just outside Minneapolis so i know what you mean there. What part of WI are you in. It would be fun to hear these after you get them done. But a very cool design.
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post #82 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_J View Post
I hear you there. I live in MN just outside Minneapolis so i know what you mean there. What part of WI are you in. It would be fun to hear these after you get them done. But a very cool design.

I am in the Fox Valley - East Central WI. Minneapolis is around 4 1/2 5 hours without construction headaches. I also forgot, most finishes will not set properly unless it is 50 F or higher, that could make it May

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #83 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 03:25 PM
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Interesting enough, I have 2 more drivers I was going to build for a set of four total. If I get some time after the New Year which I should Ill throw one together if you can get a cut list by then

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post #84 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting enough, I have 2 more drivers I was going to build for a set of four total. If I get some time after the New Year which I should Ill throw one together if you can get a cut list by then

I just ran the cut list past John, the access hatch braces should be 16" 1/8 not a 1/4, unless you are spot on a 1/4. I will update the cut list on my lunch tomorrow and then upload That would be great if you could build one around the new year!

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

Last edited by Red Five; 12-04-2018 at 04:07 PM.
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post #85 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 03:44 PM
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I’m scratching my head a bit as I think about this design. I keep looking at it, I like it, it's a cool idea. What's got me is that the 21ds doesn’t need any boost at 70hz. It’s a midbass monster. I think the UM18 could benefit from it and other non-pro style drivers. So the trade off is some VB and some extension for boost at the top end? What am I missing @LTD02 ?
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post #86 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
I’m scratching my head a bit as I think about this design. I keep looking at it, I like it, it's a cool idea. What's got me is that the 21ds doesn’t need any boost at 70hz. It’s a midbass monster. I think the UM18 could benefit from it and other non-pro style drivers. So the trade off is some VB and some extension for boost at the top end? What am I missing @LTD02 ?

If I recall in the cheap outdoor sub thread John modeled a Si HT18 in this enclosure, it did not look too pretty. Two peaks and a null between the tunes. For my setup I could build two UM18 enclosures for the bottom end and this thing would still outpace them low vs mid

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #87 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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It fits almost perfectly on two sheets of MDF, if the design was based fitting on two sheets of MDF, it would not be any closer. 5 2x4s are required for bracing with some wiggle room on the last board.
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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #88 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
I’m scratching my head a bit as I think about this design. I keep looking at it, I like it, it's a cool idea. What's got me is that the 21ds doesn’t need any boost at 70hz. It’s a midbass monster. I think the UM18 could benefit from it and other non-pro style drivers. So the trade off is some VB and some extension for boost at the top end? What am I missing @LTD02 ?
with a pair of 21ds115, i'm not sure you are missing much. :-)

the ported horn does provide a slight increase in output on the lower end, but the upper end gets loaded which increases efficiency up there dramatically (i posted a plot of that in the other thread). how much that makes a difference is tough to say, but another 6dB or so of output and/or a corresponding reduction in power compression are benefits. also, cone motion has another drop to minimum around 70hz or so, so that may reduce (already low) distortion further. at least in theory, it should hit a little harder and sound a littler cleaner than direct radiator all other things equal.

that said, the sub does start to rolloff out past 100-120hz or so, so if crossing much higher than that it may actually be not as good as direct radiator options. since iirc you cross pretty high, it may not be the best solution for your rig.

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post #89 of 146 Old 12-04-2018, 04:38 PM
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"If you can't stand behind our troops stand in front of them"

+1

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post #90 of 146 Old 12-05-2018, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Cut list is together! @Gorilla Killa


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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

Last edited by Red Five; 12-05-2018 at 07:21 AM. Reason: tagged a builder
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