War of the 10" monster midbasses - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 06-18-2018, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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War of the 10" monster midbasses

Round 1 of the war of the monster 10" Midbasses - On Axis FR and Harmonic Distortion.

Ciare NDH 10-3's
vs
Faital Pro 10FH520's
vs
Faital Pro 10FH530's
vs
Faital Pro 10HP1020's
vs
18 Sound 10NW750's
vs
B&C 10PLB76's
vs
18 Sound 10NDA610's


(plus in the future: vs Beyma 10MC700ND's )

The theme here is:
  • minimum 3" voice coils (for reduced power compression)
  • minimum 400W RMS/AES power handling
  • most with flux demodulating rings
  • ~4-6mm Xmax.
  • Low Distortion
  • good clean extension out to 2kHz+
This is Texas, go big or go home (except for pricing, lol, looking to stay under $300 per driver limit). Hoping for good low-distortion performance. Intended frequency range use is about 150-200Hz on the low-end, and 1.0-1.5kHz on the top end.






































All Drivers FR superimposed.



As expected from the FR graphs, the 10HP1020 is the "dullest" and the NDH10-3 is the "brightest" sounding. The funny thing is, all the Faital's and the 18 Sound drivers have demodulating rings in the motors, and Ciare says that the NDH10-3 does not have any kind of shorting/demodulating rings in the motor!.




Individual driver distortion performances. SPL levels at the specified 105-107 dB are @ 1m on-axis taken at ~500Hz.

Ciare NDH10-3






Faital Pro 10FH530





Faital Pro 10FH520




Faital Pro 10HP1020




Eighteen Sound 10NW750





This last graph shows the THD of the 5 above midbasses superimposed into one chart, with the very last one being windowed from 80Hz-10kHz, from 0 to 4 % THD.





Next time I'll do some CSD plots and polar response plots. Maybe with some more midbasses. I had considered the AE TD10M but @ $460 fully loaded it's too much for this hobbyist, lol. I'm trying to get a hold of a pair of PD.103NR1's as well.



Here is a ZIP file containing all data thus far.

Ten Inch Midbass Drivers.zip
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Last edited by OscarJr; 07-12-2018 at 10:17 PM.
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post #2 of 24 Old 06-18-2018, 01:34 PM
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No pictures or graphs are loading.
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post #3 of 24 Old 06-18-2018, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. They load up just fine for me. Try hitting CTRL + F5 to reload if you're on a Windows PC.
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post #4 of 24 Old 06-18-2018, 03:20 PM
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Still no go.



Are the pictures loading for anyone else?
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post #5 of 24 Old 06-18-2018, 03:23 PM
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Are the pictures loading for anyone else?

Yes
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post #6 of 24 Old 06-18-2018, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig S King View Post
Still no go.



Are the pictures loading for anyone else?

Loading fine here.
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post #7 of 24 Old 06-18-2018, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig S King View Post
Still no go.



Are the pictures loading for anyone else?
Where are you viewing this page from? Personal connection or some other random connection? Just in case your ISP is blocking Google Drive as a file hosting server, since that is where they are hosted/linked from.
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post #8 of 24 Old 06-18-2018, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Individual Drivers - On-Axis Frequency Response - 2.83V, 1 meter, in-room, including reflections


Ciare NDH 10-3's




Faital Pro 10FH520's



Faital Pro 10FH530's



Faital Pro 10HP1020's



Eighteen Sound 10NW750's

Last edited by OscarJr; 06-18-2018 at 08:33 PM.
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post #9 of 24 Old 06-18-2018, 09:39 PM
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They all look great but that 18sound looks great.


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post #10 of 24 Old 06-19-2018, 02:40 AM
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Which ones measure the best? (I am not familiar with how to interpret the graphs) Which one do you consider the winner?
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post #11 of 24 Old 06-19-2018, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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They all look great but that 18sound looks great.


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Yup, from these most are saying Ciare and/or 18 Sound.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
Which ones measure the best? (I am not familiar with how to interpret the graphs) Which one do you consider the winner?

There is no clear winner yet, as there is more data to be collected. Even then you can only take it for what it's worth: hobbyist measurement in a non-anechoic room.
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post #12 of 24 Old 06-19-2018, 02:53 PM
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Strange... they load on my computer at work, but not at home.
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post #13 of 24 Old 06-19-2018, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Strange... they load on my computer at work, but not at home.
Well, was it worth it? lol
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post #14 of 24 Old 06-20-2018, 08:51 AM
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Sort of. I mean I liked seeing pictures of the cute little subs. But like someone else said, I don’t know how to interpret all the graphs. All I could envision was building a giant horned cabinet with all of those 10s jammed into it.
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post #15 of 24 Old 06-20-2018, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Sort of. I mean I liked seeing pictures of the cute little subs. But like someone else said, I don’t know how to interpret all the graphs. All I could envision was building a giant horned cabinet with all of those 10s jammed into it.
LOL. I see. I got plenty of subs, but these definitely ain't them, hehe. These are strictly mid-bass from about 100Hz on up (to about 2kHz or so).

I have my subs in what used to be a walk-in closet:

(don't mind the red arrows, they were for some other post in some other forum)










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post #16 of 24 Old 06-21-2018, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarJr View Post
LOL. I see. I got plenty of subs, but these definitely ain't them, hehe. These are strictly mid-bass from about 100Hz on up (to about 2kHz or so).

I have my subs in what used to be a walk-in closet:



Love the CV Strokers. No plans for them or just collecting them?
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post #17 of 24 Old 06-21-2018, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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The plans are always there. It's just the time that is missing, lol.
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post #18 of 24 Old 06-30-2018, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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News break, this just in! More data.

I added a B&C 10PLB76 and an 18 Sound 10NDA610 to this royal rumble.






















Same test conditions as before.

B&C 10PLB76 Frequency Response




B&C 10PLB76 Distortion Performance








18 Sound 10NDA610 FR with and without AIC. The addition of AIC results in ~ +5dB hotter output from about 2kHz-upward, with the change starting around 1.5kHz.





Interestingly, the distortion with AIC decreases on the low-end but not on the high-end, but I guess it makes sense since it is not shorted, but rather in parallel to the voice coil.

Without AIC




with AIC





and for the kicker, here it is with the AIC coil shorted to itself...

18 Sound NDA610 FR comparing without AIC, with AIC, and AIC shorted. A little bit hotter than without, but not as hot as with AIC on the top-end.




18 Sound NDA610 Distortion with AIC shorted




18 Sound NDA610 Distortion Percentage with AIC, without AIC, and AIC shorted.






18 Sound 10NDA610 Impedance/phase & T/S parameters via DATS V2

Without AIC.




With AIC. Top-end impedance and phase shift near resonance definitely flattens out.



Shorted AIC. Impedance Peak and phase shift remains largely unaffected, but the top-end impedance does decrease.



The inductance on my DATS V2 has never checked out compared to mfg spec sheets. 18 Sound claims 0.06mH @ 1kHz w/ AIC, DATS V2 shows ~0.8mH. Oh well, no biggie. I'm sure the DATS V2 has limitations.



18 Sound 10NDA610 Impedance/Phase combined.




Latest ZIP file with all info.

Ten Inch Midbass Drivers.zip

Lots more testing to do!!!


Oh almost forgot, BIG thumbs up to Jay @ Loudspeakers Plus for hooking me up with the great deals on all my 18 Sound speakers! Great company to work with.
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Last edited by OscarJr; 06-30-2018 at 10:25 PM.
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post #19 of 24 Old 08-31-2018, 02:30 PM
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Any chance you can put the Acoustic Elegance TD10M through these tests?

http://aespeakers.com/shop/td/td10m/


Edit: My bad, I saw you already excluded it.

I was curious how the standard TD10M compares to the 10NDA610.

Last edited by eug3enius; 08-31-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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post #20 of 24 Old 06-18-2019, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Any chance you can put the Acoustic Elegance TD10M through these tests?

http://aespeakers.com/shop/td/td10m/


Edit: My bad, I saw you already excluded it.

I was curious how the standard TD10M compares to the 10NDA610.
Back up! Missed the last post, thought I was subscribed to my own thread, lol. I can test it if you send it to me.

A few more contenders will be added. I added a Beyma 10G40 and a pair of Beyma 10MC700Nd's just showed up!




















...aaaand I just subscribed to my own thread, LOL.
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post #21 of 24 Old 06-19-2019, 04:50 AM
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Hold on, they still make 10" drivers? At the way things have been going, i figure 15" is the new 10"
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post #22 of 24 Old 06-19-2019, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Hold on, they still make 10" drivers? At the way things have been going, i figure 15" is the new 10"
LOL, that is true for subs. Hence the 15" Cerwin Vega Stroker in the picture. I guess the same holds for other types of speakers, since these 10's are my midranges
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post #23 of 24 Old 06-22-2019, 11:33 AM
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Any chance of throwing the 10MB600 in the mix? I’ve always loved the way the soecs looked on this.

http://www.usspeaker.com/eighteensound-10MB600-1.htm


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post #24 of 24 Old 06-22-2019, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Any chance of throwing the 10MB600 in the mix? I’ve always loved the way the soecs looked on this.

http://www.usspeaker.com/eighteensound-10MB600-1.htm


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Nah, it was a choice between that one and the 18 sound 10NW750, and I chose the 10NW750.

But I can still test the 10MB600 if you send it to me.

Last edited by OscarJr; 06-22-2019 at 09:45 PM.
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