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post #31 of 48 Old 10-10-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
Excellent. Please include the Bl(x), Le(x) and Kms(x) curves if possible.
Reports have been posted on our website for the Shiva and Tempest. XBL driver reports are coming soon. Reports are located under technical data for each unit.
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post #32 of 48 Old 10-10-2018, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Adire_Audio View Post
Reports have been posted on our website for the Shiva and Tempest.

What do the X subscripts stand for, i.e. X(p) and X(prot)?

Looks like the mechanical limits, but not sure.

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post #33 of 48 Old 10-11-2018, 06:55 AM
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A pile of 8 Shivas was my first step into DIY audio maybe 20+ years ago from then Avatar Audio. It's nice to see someone bringing some more options to the market, especially some XBL^2 designs with all the benefit of 2 decades of production and sourcing experience Dan passes to the company.

Best of luck to Andrew and Brandon. There's plenty of room in the market.
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post #34 of 48 Old 10-11-2018, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
All I know is that I've owned SDX-15's and MalX-21's which I believe both had XBL^2 in it.
Neither were good sounding.

The SDX was better than the Mal if I were forced to choose.

Whatever magic the LMS-18 and SAB-24 has in it, it's FAR better sounding. That's all I know...

...

Too be fair though, I am an insatiable-basshead and way back then my foot was made of DU. As I've aged more and the cops have forced me to "keep it down" I have calmed down (if you can call 100kW and 32 subs calm... )
Once I buy some farm land or an underground bunker it's FULL-ON once again, you can count on that!
I think this is a case of the wrong product for the wrong enthusiast. While the XBL^2 drivers offered quite a bit of linear excursion for the time, they suffered from benefit/misfortune I've seen often before of being very clean in their linear range, and the motor allowed you to push right up to the hairy edge, and in some models that edge was very hairy indeed. By your own description, you are going to almost always pick the driver that is the best behaved as it is pushed into it's limits. The earlier XBL^2 designs would probably be better described as sounding clean right up to their limits, where they then would scream "Stop That!" Some (not all) of the early XBL^2 woofers from Adire also had less upper bass efficiency, and there was much less understanding by DIYers of what expectations should be from different types of woofers, and many fewer had measurement capability back then.

The XBL^2 motor design allows for much flatter BL curve, or dramatically different shapes than are typical from traditional overhung designs. You can make a wide range of design decisions and set different priorities within that flexibility. So much so that I strongly recommend against stereotyping woofer performance based on the motor design alone.

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post #35 of 48 Old 10-11-2018, 06:09 PM
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The market for a reasonably priced xbl 18 should be healthy


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post #36 of 48 Old 10-12-2018, 04:24 AM
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I had a Trio12 from CCS that had XBL2 in it and I can confirm that they sounded quite good up to their limits... Witch was a quite hard limit 😂 I killed mine due to bottom out. I don’t know how and why but the Trio 12 was rated at 19mm xmax but inward xmexh was 16mm. I measured it with a square put against the front of the frame with shim while pushing it until the vc hit the backplate. Horrible sound when it did that. It developed coil rub overtime due to that. Had I know it had 16mm from the start I would have made my enclosure smaller or I would have used 300 watt instead of 500 watt to power it.

If you read Databass SDX15 review it appears to have the same issues.

I never owned Adire audio subwoofer but I hope this isn’t proprietary to the XBL2 design.
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post #37 of 48 Old 02-28-2019, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Steeve-O View Post
I had a Trio12 from CCS that had XBL2 in it and I can confirm that they sounded quite good up to their limits... Witch was a quite hard limit 😂 I killed mine due to bottom out. I don’t know how and why but the Trio 12 was rated at 19mm xmax but inward xmexh was 16mm. I measured it with a square put against the front of the frame with shim while pushing it until the vc hit the backplate. Horrible sound when it did that. It developed coil rub overtime due to that. Had I know it had 16mm from the start I would have made my enclosure smaller or I would have used 300 watt instead of 500 watt to power it.

If you read Databass SDX15 review it appears to have the same issues.

I never owned Adire audio subwoofer but I hope this isn’t proprietary to the XBL2 design.
Bandpass boxes have the same problem. Basically the distortion is really low, so it's not apparent that you're close to the limits until you blow up a driver :O

I had a Trio 8 from CSS and it basically got louder and louder as you fed more power to it, there were no signs that it was getting tons of power.
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post #38 of 48 Old 02-28-2019, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Vergiliusm View Post
A paper by Paul Klipsch on why horns are better? I'm shocked. . Comparing direct radiator to direct radiator in a budget, two-way book-shelf, if you can use a 5.25 instead of a 6.5 to get a similar response down low, it'll simplify things in the range of frequencies at the crossover. With budget being the operative word, its a good way to go, IMO.
Hey let me complete your dismay, I think I have a paper from RAAL on the advantages of ribbons...and one from Martin Logan on the advantages of electrostatics...and one from BBE on how everything sound horrible without their "fix"
Actually I'm not aware of any research that disputed Klipsch's conclusions, though it's possible I missed something. So for the 5.25 vs 6.5, you might get a similar response down low but for the same SPL at the same frequency the 5 will have to move more which at the same price point would generally have more distortion.
By the way, I think the funniest AES paper was one trying to show that stacks of vented boxes would be superior to a horn setup of the same size. The funny part was that their data measurements showed the opposite
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post #39 of 48 Old 02-28-2019, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Adire_Audio View Post
our website...
Which perhaps could explain "XBL^2" for the uninitiated? (Or the forgetful, like me ). And maybe leverage various people's build drawings and pictures, when you get a minute. Best of luck gents!
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post #40 of 48 Old 02-28-2019, 10:12 PM
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First diy subs were mal-x sono subs tuned to 12hz. Fun times!

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post #41 of 48 Old 03-01-2019, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by head_unit View Post
Which perhaps could explain "XBL^2" for the uninitiated? (Or the forgetful, like me ). And maybe leverage various people's build drawings and pictures, when you get a minute. Best of luck gents!
It's an underhung design but instead of a single magnetic gap with the most force in the middle of the gap, there are multiple gaps caused by varying the distance from the top plate to the pole piece.


In the example below, the motor has the equivalent of 2 top plates with a gap between them. That way the BL stays close to constant as the coil moves. Multiple plate






You can stack multiple plate/gap combinations to make the magnetic gap as long as your suspension can go. That's why Dan W. came up with the Arachnid suspension to replace standard cloth spiders. Since they were metal, they also eliminated the need for tinsel leads.

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post #42 of 48 Old 03-01-2019, 07:13 AM
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Actually I'm not aware of any research that disputed Klipsch's conclusions, though it's possible I missed something. So for the 5.25 vs 6.5, you might get a similar response down low but for the same SPL at the same frequency the 5 will have to move more which at the same price point would generally have more distortion.
I'm not disputing Klipch's conclusions. I'm usually pointing out the advantages of a larger driver with trade-offs in the two-way bookshelf speaker discussions. From what I understand, XBL splits the gap, allowing the maintenance of motor strength through a wider range of motion. That flatter Bl curve yields less distortion(harmonic).

I've heard it said the advantages are better realized in mids and woofers rather than subwoofers, which is why I wanted to check out the 5.25" with XBL in the Chane. It is a robust little driver and handled more power than the Kef it replaced.

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post #43 of 48 Old 03-01-2019, 07:22 AM
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First diy subs were mal-x sono subs tuned to 12hz. Fun times!
Fun times indeed. Mine were Shivas and Tempests I always had a hard time finding sono tube locally, but the looks I got when asked what I was using it for were priceless.
There were a lot of puzzled looks from friends and family, as well, when they came over and saw a water heater sized object in my living room.
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post #44 of 48 Old 04-19-2019, 10:09 AM
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Any data updates on the @Adire_Audio offerings? Specifically 15" & 18" offerings. Has anyone built a sealed cabinet with one and measured it?

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post #45 of 48 Old 04-19-2019, 10:15 AM
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Any data updates on the @Adire_Audio offerings? Specifically 15" & 18" offerings. Has anyone built a sealed cabinet with one and measured it?
Brahma 10"/12"/15" are rolling out daily. Tumult 12"/15" will be ready to start shipping early next week. We are working on 18" for both platforms. Tempest 15 is available and has been shipping since late last year.
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post #46 of 48 Old 04-19-2019, 10:52 AM
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Brahma 10"/12"/15" are rolling out daily. Tumult 12"/15" will be ready to start shipping early next week. We are working on 18" for both platforms. Tempest 15 is available and has been shipping since late last year.
When will you post the final testing results?
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post #47 of 48 Old 05-06-2019, 08:42 PM
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Ooh any timeline on 18 prototypes?

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post #48 of 48 Old 05-13-2019, 10:01 AM
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Ooh any timeline on 18 prototypes?

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Unfortunately, I am not able to give out a specific timeline. All I can say is we are actively working on them.
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