Hopefully nobody is getting bent out of shape here, I am just presenting counter arguments to your blanket statements using real world examples. There are factors you aren't considering (or have deemed unimportant) that weigh in on your decisions, and that is perfectly reasonable, as long as you don't start thinking that what is unimportant to you is unimportant to everyone here. You may not find Emotiva a good deal, and there is nothing wrong with that. I happen to find it a good match for my Titans in a number of ways.
Please allow me to clarify.
Originally Posted by tential
Yes, I'm overkill, it's the DIY section...
Please don't assume I don't understand overkill. Here is my rack for my modest home theater (prior to swapping the XMC-1 for the Marantz 7703).
I've just learned from experience where the line between overkill for a purpose and overkill that is counterproductive lies.
...of course I'd want to use LG Clone amps. For the price of the Emotiva, I can get far more amplification than the Emotiva, for cheaper, and pay someone to mod it for me, and still come out cheaper. Just don't have any interest in less amplification per dollar than I can get.
And I don't have any interest in driving a speaker with power delivered by a chinese knockoff amplifier that has virtually no warranty, no matter how much money I will save. I can already make my Titans louder than I can handle with the XPA-3, so more power adds zero benefit whatsoever and comes at the price of a higher signal to noise ratio, more distortion on the upper frequency range, and a higher risk of damaging my Titans. To me this is that line between good overkill and bad overkill.
FP10Q half the price of the Emotiva with far more amplification power.
And no reasonable warranty, spotty quality control, etc. Buy at your own risk, if you get a bad one, you have to buy another and now it isn't half the price.
I want to be perfectly clear here, IF you are OK with running Class D on a 99db sensitivity speaker playing 20khz, then your choices are clearly less expensive for more power. Is it "better"? That becomes subjective really fast, but my opinion is no, it isn't better, just cheaper. I don't see any reason to put 2kw to a Titan in a home theater room, under any circumstance.
Originally Posted by tential
Why you bring up the cost of a used product is beyond me.
Because I purchased much of my equipment used, with warranty in most cases and in perfect condition, so if you are going to talk DIY costs, we should be talking about real world examples.
Furthermore, the XPA-3 is a really good match to the Titans, and can be had used for $600-$700 used, making it an excellent match both in power and in price compared to the price and performance of the speakers.
You just said you don't want the most budget option....
Also, it's not the most budget option, it's the most efficient option.
Sorry if I was unclear, I am looking for the BEST option FOR ME while not sacrificing quality and performance, whether it is cheaper or not.
I could have bought cheaper DIY speakers or used cheaper amps to drive them, but when I looked at all the data, it wasn't a good fit for me even with more raw power. On my subs, that is a different story, at 80 hz and lower, power is power as far as I am concerned, and the cheapest path to having max power for my subs with DSP to dial them in was the inuke 6kdsp's, so I bought three of them. I looked at options like the LG clones, Crown XLS, and even SpeakerPower, but none could touch the power to price ratio for 1000 watt subs, especially when adding in the need for balanced signal path and DSP control.
When you say it is the "most efficient option", that is a very obscure statement. What is more efficient? Power draw? Price? Yes, Class D amps are more efficient than Class A/B. Also Class D is more heat efficient, meaning you can package it in smaller enclosures and use less heat sink, which usually means lower shipping and lower manufacture costs. "Price efficiency" is better if you are only looking at price/power, which most people do when considering Class D amplifiers. But then start looking outside PA amps that are driven with Class D (like the ice modules) that perform more to spec with a good Class A/B or Class H amp and suddenly your price/power ratio is not as clearly superior.
The XMC-1 is $3k+ once you add in the new HDMI board. Trying to throw out the used number is ridiculous, because you could buy the miniDSP setup used+receiver used.
It is $2500 with the new HDMI board, $3100 with the Atmos upgrade (when it comes out).
I have looked for used minidsp's and see one come up every 5 or 6 months and it is usually snapped up for 90% of the full retail. Emotiva products are plentiful and can carry the warranty across owners.
I paid $1500 for my XMC-1, it was less than a year old and had about 3 years of warranty left. The warranty was transferred to me and I am registered with Emotiva. There was absolutely no benefit to buying this processor for full price. I paid between $600 and $700 for my 3 Emotiva XPA amplifiers. I have 13 channels of power now for just under $2k. And I trust the quality more than some Chinese knockoff amplifier. And of course, based on experience, I prefer a Class A/B or similar to a Class D for highs, especially a high sensitivity speaker like the Titan that will show off even the smallest hiss or hum. It is not ridiculous to throw out those numbers because that is what I paid for the value that I got. It may not be what you would buy, and that is fine, but it is certainly relevant to this thread.
It's nothing to do with the most budget option. I have no problem worrying about the signal chain, or any part of the setup. The option I presented cost MORE than the XMC-1, so it's not about the most budget option, so stop framing it as me trying to just use the most budget option when I'm suggesting an option more expensive.
I'm sorry, you keep using terms like "cheaper" and suggest your options are more cost effective. And you suggest buying clone amplifiers instead of the real thing that costs more but is probably more reliable, better quality, and of course, not pirated designs. All my responses about budget are based on this.
The XMC-1 only does 8 channels of processing, vs the option I presented doing 16 channels. It's just different strokes, but to suggest I put my option as a pure budget option when it's a more expensive robust option than the XMC-1 is a vast miscategorization of what I presented.
It's not about not wanting to spend money, it's about being efficient with every dollar spent, and I just don't see the Emotiva solution as efficient, or robust. Just mostly lackluster, with better options available.
The XMC-1 has 13 channels, it just can't process Atmos yet until the upgrade comes out. And for price, the XMC-1 is $2500 new with the Atmos upgrade slated to cost $600, that's $3100. You are suggesting 2 $1000 processors and a 13 channel receiver which seem to be in the range of $900 brand new as an alternative, and then are saying you have a more expensive option that is more robust? How? You suggest something with no balanced signal path, more D/A and A/D conversions that add noise and jitter to the signal path, and use lower quality DAC's to begin with, and somehow your option is more robust?
As for flexibility, sure, as long as you don't care about those things I mentioned, then your options are more flexible than a pre/pro with everything built in.
There is no need to convince me that there is a better option for me, even if there is one, this is the way I went and I am happy with it. Likewise, I don't need to convince you that your path could be any better. But for the subject at hand, I do firmly believe that 2kw to a Titan is extreme overkill and dangerous to the longevity of your investment. I also believe that budget Class D amplifiers are not going to sound as good or have as good of signal to noise ratio as other options. When you combine my two opinions, an XPA-3, especially purchased used, is a really good option for the Titans.