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post #1 of 15 Old 07-19-2018, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Dual UXL’s - Next Step- Inuke Settings...

Well, I’ve got the 2nd UXL all set-up but am in the middle of re-building my Components closet / AV Rack. Otherwise I would do a thorough search as to finding the answer to my question.

I’ve decided to run them both sealed and am not concerned with using the parametric eq as much as the other settings as I will be using my Anthem Arc to correct. I’ll set it to flat.

What would you guys set the dynamic EQ at, or would you at all. I don’t watch my movies screamin loud... I have Klipsch ref II speaker through an Anthem 720 and usual don’t watch discs louder than -17.... if that helps.

The amp is the inuke 6000 dsp. Curious to hear from any of you guru’s...bassthathz and ltd types.
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post #2 of 15 Old 07-20-2018, 04:55 PM
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It depends on how Anthem handles the rolloff of the sub. Does it try to flatten the response below the rolloff point? I know that Audyssey doesn't, and likely with good reason since it can't know the limits of the sub and how much it can boost the low end. Unfortunately, that's a compromise with auto EQ and unEQed sealed subs. Even if you have some huge 24" subs, I think if the native response in-room rolls off, Audyssey won't touch it below. That's why I think sealed subs need to be accompanied with some EQ to get a flat overall response before room correction is run.

If you can tell ARC to make the response flat to a particular frequency, then that would work.

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post #3 of 15 Old 07-20-2018, 06:40 PM
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I would use some dynamic eq if you have the time to experiment.

This is how I like to set it up:

1. Find a good demo scene from a movie or your favorite bass heavy song
2. Turn it up as loud as you might listen
3. Adjust the subwoofer level by ear to what sounds good to you
4. Run an REW sweep with that setting. That is your top end of the dynamic eq
5. Now run that same scene/song at a very modest level as low as you might listen
6. Adjust the sub level by ear to what sounds good. Probably a higher sub level than the previous setting
7. Run an REW sweep with that setting.
8. Now you have two sweeps with likely different curves
9. Set the sub level to the level used in the louder test and leave it there
10. Turn down the volume to the lower level used earlier
11. Fire up the dynamic eq and adjust until you get the same curve you liked at the lower level
12. Turn it up to the louder level and adjust the dynamic eq until it matches what you liked
13. Keep adjusting the dynamic eq until it matches both the low level and high level bass that you liked
14. This will take time to dial in the amount of dynamic eq and adjust the rate at which it boosts.

Eventually you will end up matching both your desired low level curve and high level curve.

Of course you'll need a mic and REW. And be careful at the louder level when dynamic eq is on. Before you get the settings dialed in, dynamic eq may still be boosting at and above your higher level volume which could be too much for the subs.
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post #4 of 15 Old 07-21-2018, 02:14 AM
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^^ good advice.

if you aren't ready to do all that, a low shelf to compensate for the some of the natural rolloff in sealed would be a decent start. just keep in mind that every 3db is doubling power requirements. a decent start might be 12db/oct low shelf, freq=30hz, gain=+6db and see how that sounds. since you don't tend to blast things, a little more gain may be preferred.

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post #5 of 15 Old 07-21-2018, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Great responses Samps and LTD. I don’t have an REW setup but for future refrerence I’ll remember your post Samps.
For simplicity sake I dialed in your suggestion LTD. Sounds great so far. So that’s PEQ... what other settings does a guy in my setup want to keep in mind? I set the DEQ to OFF as I don’t imagine the two work together.

BTW, here’s the finished AVR rack with the new sub added...
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post #6 of 15 Old 07-22-2018, 08:25 AM
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Dual UXL’s - Next Step- Inuke Settings...

@Samps I know inuke has deq but minidsp doesn’t, what other options are there/what are you using?


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post #7 of 15 Old 07-22-2018, 09:38 AM
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All my amps are inukes with dsp. Audyssey has dynamic eq built in but it's not very adjustable. I'm not sure what other options there are. Behringer has stand alone dsp that will do basically the same things the inuke does. Look at the DCX2496.
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post #8 of 15 Old 07-23-2018, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cr500guy View Post
What would you guys set the dynamic EQ at, or would you at all. I don’t watch my movies screamin loud...
The whole point of DEQ is to make quiet things loud and loud things loud*, with minimal to no clipping if done right.

However it has its limits and the current implementations use static ratios and a fixed threshold; with more CPU horses "ideally" it would support multiple variant-gain per 10db step or whatnot, with say a brickwall option at 0db. An advanced compressor/limiter of sorts. Without that it is barely better than normal PEQ IMO, and forget vastly better.

Which reminds me, I should probably do a deeper analysis of the compressor/limiters in my DSP rig, which is neither DCX's, inukes or miniDSP's or anything else you'd typically see. Secret order of the esoteric DSP.

Long story short: I wouldn't bother with DEQ unless you are unhappy with how it sounds, or specifically: how unloud the unload bass is yet happy with how load the load bass is*. Confused yet? You should be! But only-if it is above or below your defined fixed threshold...

Dynamically-confused and un-confused at the same time!!! hehe
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post #9 of 15 Old 07-23-2018, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
just keep in mind that every 3db is doubling power requirements.
and ~1.4x more excursion...

and LOTS more heat; which is the real hidden-killer...

You can see excursion, but you can't see heat, especially at a mounting depth of whatever inches... (if at all ) and by the time you smell it, it could be far too late... (could as-in: it is... )
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post #10 of 15 Old 07-23-2018, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
^^ good advice.

if you aren't ready to do all that, a low shelf to compensate for the some of the natural rolloff in sealed would be a decent start. just keep in mind that every 3db is doubling power requirements. a decent start might be 12db/oct low shelf, freq=30hz, gain=+6db and see how that sounds. since you don't tend to blast things, a little more gain may be preferred.

Could you also do a high shelf with a reduction of 6db above say 25Hz? I ask because if you end up with a lot of headroom left (my case), I think I'd rather do a high shelf with a reduction of 6db and just turn the inuke input knob up 6db to compensate. Then everything below 25Hz (for example) gets a 6db boost.



Feels better to subtract than boost, but it may not matter one bit. That's why I'm asking
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post #11 of 15 Old 07-23-2018, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr500guy View Post
What would you guys set the dynamic EQ at, or would you at all. I don’t watch my movies screamin loud...
The whole point of DEQ is to make quiet things loud and loud things loud*, with minimal to no clipping if done right.

However it has its limits and the current implementations use static ratios and a fixed threshold; with more CPU horses "ideally" it would support multiple variant-gain per 10db step or whatnot, with say a brickwall option at 0db. An advanced compressor/limiter of sorts. Without that it is barely better than normal PEQ IMO, and forget vastly better.

Which reminds me, I should probably do a deeper analysis of the compressor/limiters in my DSP rig, which is neither DCX's, inukes or miniDSP's or anything else you'd typically see. Secret order of the esoteric DSP. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG]

Long story short: I wouldn't bother with DEQ unless you are unhappy with how it sounds, or specifically: how unloud the unload bass is yet happy with how load the load bass is*. Confused yet? You should be! But only-if it is above or below your defined fixed threshold...

Dynamically-confused and un-confused at the same time!!! hehe [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG]
Awesome. Thank you Sir. 😄 Yeah now that I’ve familiarized myself with the amp, I totally get what you’re saying about how it makes quiet things louder and vice versa.

I used the above suggestion of LTD’s in the PEQ. I’m curious what the release and attack do. I’ve read about the explanation but I’d have to hear it I guess.

Q. That sub 20 hz work-around for the inuke to go flat below the 20hz mark that LTD posted some time ago....
Is that of any value to my sealed pair?
I’d hate to cut off subterranian frequencies the sealed subs give. But if not, my other concern is stressing the amp.

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post #12 of 15 Old 07-24-2018, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Could you also do a high shelf with a reduction of 6db above say 25Hz? I ask because if you end up with a lot of headroom left (my case), I think I'd rather do a high shelf with a reduction of 6db and just turn the inuke input knob up 6db to compensate. Then everything below 25Hz (for example) gets a 6db boost.

Feels better to subtract than boost, but it may not matter one bit. That's why I'm asking
yes.

if the signal is not clipping, gain or cut will work just fine. some folks get into trouble with gain filters because of clipping issues.

high shelf and low shelf are specified a little differently based on which corner of the filter (the upper or lower corner) is used to locate the filter. that isn't really important here as 30hz was just a starting point, not a precise value.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #13 of 15 Old 07-24-2018, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
"ideally" it would support multiple variant-gain per 10db step or whatnot, with say a brickwall option at 0db.


Long story short: I wouldn't bother with DEQ unless you are unhappy with how it sounds, or specifically: how unloud the unload bass is yet happy with how load the load bass is*. Confused yet? You should be! But only-if it is above or below your defined fixed threshold...



Dynamically-confused and un-confused at the same time!!! hehe

Ive been playing with it and actually I think it does what you’re describing. Whatever gain you set at whatever level is then proportionately reduced as you increase the input level toward 0 dB. At least that’s what the little helpful graph shows in the inuke software and it also sounds that way. And I would have clipped the snot out of it with 16dB gain except that as you turn it up all that gain goes away. As Samps said the trick is tuning it and also factoring whatever peq you want. But I do like the effect whereas I haven’t been convinced by the audyssey deq, which I’m not sure is limited to bass but I could be mistaken.



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post #14 of 15 Old 07-25-2018, 07:51 PM
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It looks like whatever threshold you choose in db causes the boost you program to be set from that db level downward. Above that db level the boost is tapered progressively lower until zero db level. See second pic where I just changed the db threshold and you see that all the db levels below -20 db were all boosted the same level, and then above that the boost tapers off as you approach zero db.

I cranked up the frequency to make it more clear what's happening, here is the low setting, threshold at -31db



and then cranked up to -9 you can see the boost levels flatten out below the threshold and actually at zero db there is still some boost which before I cranked up the frequency I couldn't see as the curves were so short. Notice that the bottom three plots are about the max boost and then above that they start to taper down as input level increases.



and then you can play a lot, I looked up the rolloff of hearing at low frequencies and it looks more like this curve, and also when you raise the frequency it helps get the most boost down low. If you set 10db at 20hz you will get more like 7 or 8 if you believe the tiny graph. I'll have to get out rew and do more listening but for sitting on the couch playing this gives nice low volume boost that tapers off so as not to melt stuff at higher volumes.

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post #15 of 15 Old 07-26-2018, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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A different PEQ question...

Ok, so so-far I’ve liked the PEQ LS12 30hz 6db Gain setting LTD suggested as a ‘starting point’ setting.

So here’s hoping LTD and Bassthathz is catching this....

With the the inuke rolling off at 20hz am I better to tinker a bit more? I likely would have gone dual marty’s but the one spot where the one sub is, is not big enough for a ported box. So dual sealed will offer me more output down low. With me boosting at 6 db, will the drop of at 20 hz be huge, along with the inuke’s own rolloff?
I wonder if doing the trick where you can lower the inukes rolloff point would be a good idea? I’m just not sure how far I could safely lower the rolloff point. Also I’m not totally clear on just exactly how to do it. Also would a person boost at all?
What is the ‘Qual’ setting? Where should attack and release be set?

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