HTM-12 love and thoughts on Duratex - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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HTM-12 love and thoughts on Duratex

I've had the same speakers more or less for about 15-20 years, and I've been lurking on the DIY forums for quite some time. I wasn't unhappy with the Paradigm's peformance (other than dialogue being difficult to discern from center channel on some sources) but I had the upgrade bug and wanted to do something different. So I decided to go DIY for my first major speaker upgrade in a long time.

My room is approximately 16x22, I have a 135" DIY spandex screen, and current speakers consist of Paradigm Monitor 7's, CC-350, Axiom QS8's for surrounds, 1 Hsu VTF3mkIII and 1 AV123 MFW-15 for subs, and Micca ceiling speakers for Atmos. Usage is 99% movies. I really wanted 3 identical speakers for my front sound stage, and dynamics and efficiency were also important.

So I chose 3 HTM-12's for my front sound stage. This will not be a build thread since I basically copied everything everyone else has already written about. But as always I should mention that Erich was great to work with, the kit was packaged exceptionally, and all components and parts were top notch. I Duratex'ed the cabinets which I will discuss more in the next post.

I was originally going to put these behind the screen but I decided that I couldn't spare the room. I was also a little concerned about the "utilitarian" looks of the HTM-12's, but after having them out I REALLY like the way they look. They are a simple yet attractive design in person, and without grills they really look like they mean business (and they do!). So I'm liking having them "exposed".

Even before rerunning Audyssey the difference in sound quality was immediately noticable. The first thing I noticed was a substantial improvement in cohesiveness, even among the rears. Everything just sounded more balanced and I realized I was focusing less on where the sound was coming from and just enjoying being immersed in the movie. Big wall of sound. Dynamics and clarity were superb and as everyone knows, these things get crazy loud even on receiver power. It definitely helps having 3 identical speakers. Pans were seamless and I didn't have that "center speaker" sound anymore. Midbass was much improved from my previous speakers...low brass instruments had a significant heft and depth that just wasn't present before. They simply sound great.

After rerunning Audyssey things got even better. I also built little 7 inch speaker stands and raised and tilted them so they're pointing right at the MLP. This really opened the soundstage up quite a bit. Overall, I'm really really pleased with the sound of these--very "cinema-like" and I would imagine there's not a whole lot of things I would want these speakers to do that they couldn't. Highly recommended if you have the room and you like movies.

**The more I listen to these the more I like them. I've definitely adapted to the more "in your face" sound (Paradigms were fairly laid back) and prefer it over the Paradigms. These are just great great speakers.

I liked these so much I ordered 2 Volt-8's for side surrounds, and I can't wait to see how that improves things even more. Thoughts on Duratex below.







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post #2 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I decided to use Duratex on this project because I was curious and wanted to try it out. Since the speakers are in a dedicated theater that is dark 90% of the time, a flawless beautiful finish was not necessary. Plus that's the part of the process I like the least so I didn't want to spend a lot of time on it.

That being said, my biggest concerns with Duratex was how it was going to look. I've seen some beautiful Duratex finishes (usually sprayed on) but with my time constraints and lack of a spray gun I was just shooting for acceptable and non-sucky. I didn't want an "industrial" heavy textured look, but a light texture that was unobtrusive but not excessive. In the end, I was really pleased at how the final finish turned out--just enough texture to break up the light and hide my lack of finishing skills, but not enough to look too utilitarian.

I really liked working with the Duratex, but there were some aspects of it that were really frustrating. After reading many threads here and on Parts Express, as well as watching Youtube videos, here's what I did:

Prep was already discussed above--some Evercoat and drywall spackle sanded relatively smooth. Primed with Kilz Complete, then spray painted black with Rustoleum painter's touch. Pre painting it black really helped a lot...there was one spot that I had to go back over with drywall spackle and the Duratex didn't want to cover it very well (ended up blasting the spot with spray paint then resuming Duratex).

I cut my quart of Duratex by about 5-7% with water. Not sure if this helped or not but it definitely made it thinner. I used the foam rollers as suggested for a lightly textured look. The biggest problem was that Duratex dried on me FAST. Some people suggested waiting 5 minutes after first application and then lightly hitting it with a dry roller to knock down the texture. I had maybe a minute at most before it started drying too much and I started getting significant roller lines and uneven texture. It took me several coats to get familiar with its behavior and get a good rhythm going. I would suggest starting on a non-critical side (the back or bottom) to get familiar with it before going on to the more visible areas.

What I found was that overworking it made things worse. I would dip my roller in the can, roll it on a piece of cardboard (as shown in the manufacturer's video) to even it out, then hit the speaker with it and roll it fairly aggressively to get an even coat. Then almost immediately I would go back over it very very lightly with a dry roller to even out the texture. Like I said, it dried really really fast and working it beyond the point where it started to dry just made the texture uneven and the roller lines stand out. I had read somewhere that misting the surface of the speaker BEFORE applying your Duratex was helpful, and it really was. (Of course I figured this out at the end). So I would mist the surface I was treating to get a light even layer of water, then apply the Duratex--this seemed to help get a more even coating and extend the working time a bit, and then as soon as I had even coverage immediately hit it with the dry roller. I was able to get a more uniform texture and minimize most major roller lines using this technique. A bigger foam roller would have helped but the biggest roller I could find locally was 6". An 18" one would have completely eliminated this roller line problem for me. So if you can find a roller that's as wide or wider than your cabinet, get it for the final pass.

I ended up putting on several coats just because I was working out my technique and trying to get a uniform finish. But really you can get away with just a couple if you know what you're doing (I didn't). My quart allowed me to treat 3 HTM-12's which are fairly large cabinets with MULTIPLE coats and still some left over. If I knew what I was doing I wouldn't have even used half of a quart. Some of the faint roller lines have faded and in the theater they aren't even noticable unless you closely inspect the speaker and look at it with the light hitting at the right angle. But I'm anal and knowing they are there sorta bugged me. In my research I had read a tip for reducing roller lines--303 Aerospace and Marine Protectant. This is an Armor All-like product that a lot of car detailers use. After letting the Duratex cure for a few days, I sprayed it on the cabinet and then buffed it off per the instructions, and it really seems to even out the finish. Probably wouldn't do much for significant roller lines, but minor ones it definitely helps.

All in all, I was very pleased with the Duratex and will use it again on the next DIY speaker project. Now that I know what I'm doing the whole process should go a lot smoother. I hope my trials, tribulations, and observations help anyone who is using Duratex, and if I can be of any more help please do not hesitate to ask.
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post #3 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 10:43 AM
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I've painted everything from heavy industrial/ extreme environmental exposure to places where they really should have just bulldozed the place.
I've painted mushrooms under leaking kitchen sinks . . you can get what you pay for

nice writing and work.

and those 3 15" horns, quite an inspirational array . .
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post #4 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 10:46 AM
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This is really good info. Thank you.
I’ve been wondering how much coverage area Duratex would allow. 1 quart for 3 HTM-12s is awesome. That means I could do all of the speakers I’m planning with 1 gallon easily. Thanks again
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post #5 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 10:54 AM
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@toothboy
Of topic, but, how high is the ceiling in your HT ? I see you have 2 rows. I’m trying to figure out if that’s possible for me.
I’m trying to plan my upcoming HT. I’m afraid I won’t have the amount of space I really want ( side to side and height ).
Room looks really nice, by the way.
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post #6 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 10:56 AM
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FTR
for extended coverage, I will prime with flat black, and then go for more surface prep and at least 1 proof coat,

even if , yeah, outtasight in the dark

it can extend the duratex coverage by a factor or at least 2X. and you can do the smoother finish with the let down and even a foam roller.

how does it sound?

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post #7 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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@toothboy
Of topic, but, how high is the ceiling in your HT ? I see you have 2 rows. I’m trying to figure out if that’s possible for me.
I’m trying to plan my upcoming HT. I’m afraid I won’t have the amount of space I really want ( side to side and height ).
Room looks really nice, by the way.
Ceiling is 9'. Second row is composed of theater style rockers on a 12" riser. If you need any more measurements or pics just PM me.

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post #8 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 11:05 AM
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Ceiling is 9'. Second row is composed of theater style rockers on a 12" riser. If you need any more measurements or pics just PM me.
Thanks, but that’s what I was afraid of. Enjoy your setup. Again, looks great and I bet it sounds great too.
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post #9 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 11:22 AM
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Your paint looks good but what I am wondering about is who did you cement into the wall?
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post #10 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Your paint looks good but what I am wondering about is who did you cement into the wall?
Father in law

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post #11 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 11:53 AM
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who did you cement into the wall?
Can't tell if joking.....

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post #12 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 01:45 PM
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Can't tell if joking.....
My nephew lives in Eldorado, AR. He says that they do like to hang their trophies on the wall, So.......?


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post #13 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 02:13 PM
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Nice build, great looking room, and thanks for sharing, especially the tips on the Duratex.


I'm in the finishing phase of my 3 HTM-12's. Same deal as you; I've got a front stage that I've had for 12 years. I like them well enough, they're actually quite fine, but I want to upgrade and I think the HTMs will be an upgrade.


Sort of off topic, but since I need stands for my HTMs, I was wondering about your stands that you built. Would you mind taking a picture of them? I'm curious about the support between the top (that the HTM rests on) as the base.


I just built 18"x18"x11" boxes out of MDF as stands to put my left and right on. That will get the left and right waveguides up to ear level so no tilting for them (either side of the LCD TV). I'll finish and paint them just like the HTMs. I'm curious what the flat surface/face of the box under the HTM will do. If I'm able to measure some odd baffle effects because of it I'll ditch it for something more transparent like what you did. (hence my curiosity about your stands. I like them.)


You describe the HTMs as being "cinema like"; that's what I'm hoping for (in a good way).



Thanks!
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post #14 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice build, great looking room, and thanks for sharing, especially the tips on the Duratex.




Sort of off topic, but since I need stands for my HTMs, I was wondering about your stands that you built. Would you mind taking a picture of them? I'm curious about the support between the top (that the HTM rests on) as the base.





Thanks!

I'll take some pictures later and post them. Basically it's 2 square sheets of 3/4" MDF. One for base and one for platform. In between these are 2 angled 2x6's to get them to the required height.

Basically I just copied this design and scaled it up to fit the HTM's.


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post #15 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 03:29 PM
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Thank you! I guess the tops of the 2x6's are angled as well to get the tilt? If the 2x6's are "turned" *and* cut at an angle, that ends up being a compound cut for the tops right?
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post #16 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 03:30 PM
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Theater looks really nice. Those fancy new HTMs sure would look better next to some big diy subs.
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post #17 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 03:36 PM
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Thank you! I guess the tops of the 2x6's are angled as well to get the tilt? If the 2x6's are "turned" *and* cut at an angle, that ends up being a compound cut for the tops right?

Ahhhh, never mind. It looks like you propped up the front of the HTM between the HTM and the top platform of the stand. That makes the cuts for the 2x6's *much* easier


I'd still like to see a picture if it's not too much trouble.
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post #18 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Ahhhh, never mind. It looks like you propped up the front of the HTM between the HTM and the top platform of the stand. That makes the cuts for the 2x6's *much* easier


I'd still like to see a picture if it's not too much trouble.

My woodworking skills are...well...satisfactory. But I'm not motivated enough to figure out a compound cut. So yes, they are cut straight across the top and I just tilted them using furniture feet.

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post #19 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 05:17 PM
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My woodworking skills are...well...satisfactory. But I'm not motivated enough to figure out a compound cut. So yes, they are cut straight across the top and I just tilted them using furniture feet.

Gotcha. Thanks. I'm not up to that compound cut either Besides, with your method, the angle of tilt can be adjusted and the stands re-purposed elsewhere down the road.
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post #20 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 05:21 PM
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Nice tips on the duratex. I would add that it is not really necessary to prime before duratex. On my 4 volts I applied the duratex to bare mdf, sanded it a bit to take out some of the texture, and applied 2 more coats. I can't really tell the difference between the volts and my Marty subs that I primed, sanded, painted, sanded, applied duratex. I think I just put 2 coats of duratex on the subs, but the time savings is worth it to me to skip the priming and painting.
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post #21 of 24 Old 07-22-2018, 10:49 PM
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Nice tips on the duratex. I would add that it is not really necessary to prime before duratex. On my 4 volts I applied the duratex to bare mdf, sanded it a bit to take out some of the texture, and applied 2 more coats. I can't really tell the difference between the volts and my Marty subs that I primed, sanded, painted, sanded, applied duratex. I think I just put 2 coats of duratex on the subs, but the time savings is worth it to me to skip the priming and painting.
You can see the lines between pieces if you don't sand and spackle, IMO.

I rolled my CNotes and they came out WAY better than I expected from some of the talk on here and PE forums. Like OP I also discovered you can over work it, so I'd apply it everywhere as fast as possible (which is easy on a bookshelf speaker like these) then roll it all again with a mostly depleted paint roller.

Compared to the Overnight Sensations we made the duratex was cake.
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post #22 of 24 Old 07-23-2018, 07:06 AM
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@toothboy , congrats on the HTM-12s! I absolutely love the HTMs, although my situation forced me into an 88 Special for the center (see room photos via signature).

Very nice looking room, and the HTMs integrate visually very nicely.

Go Hogs! (Class of 1976).
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post #23 of 24 Old 07-23-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jehlinge View Post
Nice tips on the duratex. I would add that it is not really necessary to prime before duratex. On my 4 volts I applied the duratex to bare mdf, sanded it a bit to take out some of the texture, and applied 2 more coats. I can't really tell the difference between the volts and my Marty subs that I primed, sanded, painted, sanded, applied duratex. I think I just put 2 coats of duratex on the subs, but the time savings is worth it to me to skip the priming and painting.
You can see the lines between pieces if you don't sand and spackle, IMO.

I rolled my CNotes and they came out WAY better than I expected from some of the talk on here and PE forums. Like OP I also discovered you can over work it, so I'd apply it everywhere as fast as possible (which is easy on a bookshelf speaker like these) then roll it all again with a mostly depleted paint roller.

Compared to the Overnight Sensations we made the duratex was cake.
Yeah sorry want clear... Spackling and sanding is still good. Point was the prime, sand, repeat procedure is not strictly necessary before the duratex IMHO.
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post #24 of 24 Old 07-23-2018, 05:08 PM
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I live in Austin TX and I have encountered the rapid drying you mention when it is hot outside. I've had good luck using a spray bottle of water to mist the surface of the Duratex after it is rolled before the final roller treatment. I finished a Full Marty with Duratex using the small roller (5"?) and the spray bottle to extend the drying time to allow a better blend between roller strokes. I've also found that build-up on the ends of the roller accentuates the problem. To counteract this, I rolled the edges of the roller at say a 30-45 degree angle first to deplete the paint held in the ends of the roller then proceeded to roll the rest of the area in normal fashion.


Give it a try and see if these two tips help your results.


Mike
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