Newb, WinSD, problems, need guidance - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 8 Old 07-29-2018, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Newb, WinSD, problems, need guidance

Yesterday I won a 10" Dayton Titanic MKIII driver while at 2018 DIY Speaker/Sub GTG meet Plainfield Il. (Chicago land burbs)

I need to build a cabinet, obviously.

I attempted to use WinSD and having a few problems.
- The 10" Dayton Audio Titanic MKIII driver is not in the database.
- I created a custom driver in WinSD using parameters from the spec sheet for the driver.
- When I select the driver for a new project I receive "Driver data failed integrity check" warning.
- I read through and followed the manual for adding a driver (allowing the application to fill in some information) and no warnings, however, the calculated values do not match the spec sheet.

For example, PDF lists FS as 29.6hz and calculated value is 29.2hz. I have no idea if this is really an issue.

Parameters from the PDF (also attached to this post):
Impedance (ohm) 4
Re (ohm) 3.3
Le (mH) @ 1kHz 3.09
Fs (Hz) 29.6
Qms 7.34
Qes 0.47
Qts 0.44
Mms (g) 156.1
Cms (mm/N) 0.19
Sd (cm2) 330.1
Vd (cm3) 633.7
BL (Tm) 14.25
Vas (liters) 28.3
Xmax (mm) 18.7
VC Diameter (mm) 64
SPL ([email protected]/1m) 85
RMS Power (w) 400
Usable Freq. Rng (hz) 28-400

The design goals:
- Single forward facing driver
- Forward facing port(s)
- Flat response to 40hz. This will be used for music only. Lower is fine but I want at least 40hz
- Cabinet volume up to 2 cu/ft.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Dayton titanic 295-414.pdf (804.6 KB, 2 views)
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post #2 of 8 Old 07-29-2018, 12:13 PM
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Enter in this order and let it auto calculate. Just hit tab after you enter your numbers. The small differences won't matter. Make sure the units are the same between your specs and the software. You don't want to enter cubic feet if the unit is liters.

Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas, Mms, Re, Xmax, Pe
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post #3 of 8 Old 07-29-2018, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Enter in this order and let it auto calculate. Just hit tab after you enter your numbers. The small differences won't matter. Make sure the units are the same between your specs and the software. You don't want to enter cubic feet if the unit is liters.

Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas, Mms, Re, Xmax, Pe
Okay, this is what I am using:
ACTUAL CALCULATED
Re(ohm) 3.3 3.3
Fs(Hz) 29.6 29.22
Qms 7.34 7.34
Qes 0.47 .466
Qts 0.44 .438
Mms (g) 156.1 156.1
Vas(liters) 28.3 29.37
Xmax(mm)18.7 18.7

If these items will not make significant difference, cool.

Thanks


*formatting was ruined in the post.
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post #4 of 8 Old 07-29-2018, 12:38 PM
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Cms (mm/N) 0.19

Make sure WINISD is set to mm/N, I think by default it is set to um/N. To change it just click on the um/N. That is my guess why you are getting wacky results. So double them all that they are the same as the T/S parameters you are entering.

Every manufacturer uses slightly different measurements units, like kg vs g or mm vs inch etc and that will throw things off. I know it has messed me up before.

Edit: I hadn't seen your posts above when I was posting. That looks close enough. They wont match up perfectly.
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post #5 of 8 Old 07-29-2018, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iH8usrnames View Post
Yesterday I won a 10" Dayton Titanic MKIII driver while at 2018 DIY Speaker/Sub GTG meet Plainfield Il. (Chicago land burbs)
...
I attempted to use WinSD and having a few problems.
- The 10" Dayton Audio Titanic MKIII driver is not in the database.
- I created a custom driver in WinSD using parameters from the spec sheet for the driver.
- When I select the driver for a new project I receive "Driver data failed integrity check" warning.
...
FWIW, I use the following when entering parameters. I think this is from @LTD02 I found in thread somewhere?? Don't remember at this point. But the following has worked for me numerous times.

make sure all fields are clear, then enter qes then hit tab, enter qms
hit tab a couple times and let it calculate qts
hit tab a few times to move to mms
enter mms, re, bl, le, sd, xmax, and pe
by using tab after entering each data, it will calculate what it needs to
i no longer get any conflicts
sometimes the specs calculated don't match exactly the manufacturer specs, but its only rounding type errors, so it is not material
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post #6 of 8 Old 07-29-2018, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebb View Post
FWIW, I use the following when entering parameters. I think this is from @LTD02 I found in thread somewhere?? Don't remember at this point. But the following has worked for me numerous times.

make sure all fields are clear, then enter qes then hit tab, enter qms
hit tab a couple times and let it calculate qts
hit tab a few times to move to mms
enter mms, re, bl, le, sd, xmax, and pe
by using tab after entering each data, it will calculate what it needs to
i no longer get any conflicts
sometimes the specs calculated don't match exactly the manufacturer specs, but its only rounding type errors, so it is not material
Yes, that is in the manual. My concern was accuracy.

If this is acceptable I am fine with it. I am new to this whole game.
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post #7 of 8 Old 07-29-2018, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iH8usrnames View Post
Yes, that is in the manual. My concern was accuracy.

If this is acceptable I am fine with it. I am new to this whole game.
I have not read the manual (obviously).

Small differences should not matter between calculated vs. manufacturer supplied parameters. You could measure the parameters for yourself. And from what I understand your measurements may differ by even more than what you found for some of the calculated values. So no not a big deal. Ricci has found that from his measurements at data-bass.com. And, the measurements vary from brand new to broken in.

Also, FWIW I modeled some speakers using parameters that gave the data fails integrity check. For the heck of it I then corrected the parameters to eliminate the data fails integrity check message. Know what happened to the new model? Nothing. It was the same as the first one. So it probably depends on what parameters WinISD thinks are wrong as to whether it affects the modeling or not.
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post #8 of 8 Old 07-31-2018, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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More questions from the new guy.

I am using an older driver, I know. I did find a page at Parts Express with "optimum" sealed and ported cabinet sizes.

Ported cabinet would be 1.05cu/ft tuned to 30hz.
The driver has an RMS of 400w
Using these parameters in WinISD Pro it appears I would need ports of the following dimensions to avoid chuffing:

@400 watts
Slot vent = 10.5" x 2" @ 55-7/8" long - max air velocity of 16.7m/s @ 26hz
Round Vent = 5" diameter @ 52-1/8" long - max air velocity of 17.8m/s @ 26hz

I doubt I would ever hit the 400 watt threshold so at a more realistic 200 watts.
@200 watts
Slot vent = 10.5" x 1.25" @ 34-3/8" long - max air velocity of 18.8m/s @ 25hz
Round Vent = 4" diameter @ 32-3/4" long - max air velocity of 19.7m/s @ 26hz

This will be used for music and not movies, I imagine chuffing below 30hz seems totally fine, right?
Are port lengths this long very common or is this due to the driver?
Am I totally using WinISD the wrong way?

I have attached the WinISD profile created for this driver. WSD files are disallowed as an attachment. I have added .txt to the end of the filename. Just remove .txt and it should function just fine.

Dayton Audio Titanic MKIII.wsd.txt
Attached Files
File Type: txt Dayton Audio Titanic MKIII.wdr.txt (904 Bytes, 3 views)
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