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post #1 of 86 Old 07-31-2018, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Ssd neo 18

Finally, after a month and a half, shipment coming! I can soon replace the blown UM 18's!

I plan to port the 10 cubic ft sealed boxes I had the UM 18's in. WinISD shows a good response with that enclosure and a 3/4" long 4" port. What a coincidence, MDF is 3/4" thick!

No REW for measurements, but that's OK because I have them in the basement under the living room where we watch movies. Mostly for tactile response. Will update with my impression after installed in case anyone on here decides to try the Ficar SSD neo 18's.
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If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)
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post #2 of 86 Old 07-31-2018, 08:58 PM
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What does port velocity look like?

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips TR Curves
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #3 of 86 Old 07-31-2018, 09:14 PM
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post #4 of 86 Old 08-01-2018, 05:07 AM
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...to-ported.html

Just as a visual

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post #5 of 86 Old 08-01-2018, 07:00 AM
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Do not use a single 4" port.

That driver needs much more port area.

Three 4" ports might work.
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post #6 of 86 Old 08-01-2018, 09:00 AM
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You aren't really a true basshead until you've fried at least 1 DIY sub...
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post #7 of 86 Old 08-01-2018, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
You aren't really a true basshead until you've fried at least 1 DIY sub...


It’s not a good feeling either


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post #8 of 86 Old 08-02-2018, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
What does port velocity look like?
Good question. I don't see where WinISD specifies. I do question the 9099 Hz resonance.

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)
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post #9 of 86 Old 08-02-2018, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
30hz tune?
Just about. WinISD lists 29.xx Hz.

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)
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post #10 of 86 Old 08-02-2018, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
You aren't really a true basshead until you've fried at least 1 DIY sub...
Well, since I had to return two FTW-21's and fried 3 UM 18's, I's say I qualify.

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)
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post #11 of 86 Old 08-02-2018, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Do not use a single 4" port.

That driver needs much more port area.

Three 4" ports might work.
Why do you say it need more than a single 4"?

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)
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post #12 of 86 Old 08-02-2018, 08:50 PM
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you don't "need" more than a single 4" port, but intuition tells me, after the first 100 watts you are going to suffer from port chuffing strong enough to put out the flame on a gas stove; nevermind a candle.
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post #13 of 86 Old 08-02-2018, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebb View Post
Why do you say it need more than a single 4"?
Did you look at port velocity?

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips TR Curves
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #14 of 86 Old 08-02-2018, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Did you look at port velocity?
No. I do not see where that is displayed in WinISD.

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)
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post #15 of 86 Old 08-02-2018, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebb View Post
No. I do not see where that is displayed in WinISD.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you really need to study up on WinISD before you go any further designing and building subs.

Key Items:
Maximum SPL
Cone Excursion
Port Velocity
First Port Resonance

Until all of those are optimized, it is not a viable build.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips TR Curves
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #16 of 86 Old 08-02-2018, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you really need to study up on WinISD before you go any further designing and building subs.

Key Items:
Maximum SPL
Cone Excursion
Port Velocity
First Port Resonance

Until all of those are optimized, it is not a viable build.
Actually, the way I look at it, building from modeling is the way to learn. I guess that's how I study up on it? Your point is taken, though. Don't try building something until you know what you are doing.
Looking further, I now see the port velocity graph. Way too high. Need to rethink some.

And, thank you to all who posted and asked about the port velocity. I didn't realize how to find that (now I do). More to come...

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)
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post #17 of 86 Old 08-03-2018, 03:05 AM
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Well, since I had to return two FTW-21's and fried 3 UM 18's, I's say I qualify.
The general rule of thumb is that you need to 4x it.
So... you really need 16 or 32 18's, not 3.

A subwoofer-array basically gets twice as efficient for each doubling of cone area.

So eventually it will either:

Get loud enough...
or
you'll run out of space/breakers/money trying to...

(whichever comes first!!! )

I've been told that 1 24 is about as loud as 2 or 3 18's.

Back in 2010 I "only" had 9 subs, and I was STILL blowing up woofers trying to get... "enough-bass"

Now that I have 29 subs I'm starting to reach limits of my personal-preference. So I think this is "almost-enough" at this point... FINALLY!

Adding another 32 subs and 16 amps just to gain 6 MOAR DeeBee's seems highly-impractical at this point. To say the least...
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post #18 of 86 Old 08-03-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bebb View Post
Actually, the way I look at it, building from modeling is the way to learn. I guess that's how I study up on it? Your point is taken, though. Don't try building something until you know what you are doing.

Looking further, I now see the port velocity graph. Way too high. Need to rethink some.



And, thank you to all who posted and asked about the port velocity. I didn't realize how to find that (now I do). More to come...


I like to compare with max power, RMS and my targeted power to see what I can get away with the port. Once you start raising air velocity port compression robs your LF too.

http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/port-compression.htm

I couldn’t find the chart that details port compression to air velocity.


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post #19 of 86 Old 08-04-2018, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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unpackaged

Well, the Ficar SSD Neo 18's were unboxed. Interestingly, the baskets are THE SAME as the UM18's!

Also, this design has the voice coil visible. Interesting.
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If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
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post #20 of 86 Old 09-11-2018, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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old thread new issue

Well, after thoroughly enjoying my new speakers, a magnet fell off of one. There is a cabinet brace right below that the magnet was sitting on. So it still mostly worked. Because something seemed wrong, I removed the (much lighter) speaker. WTF?
Hello! Am going to contact Ficar and tell them the screws are too short, with one not even through the hole. They did not back off based on the fact that the screw heads do not have any visible space below them.
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If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
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post #21 of 86 Old 09-12-2018, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebb View Post
Well, after thoroughly enjoying my new speakers, a magnet fell off of one. There is a cabinet brace right below that the magnet was sitting on. So it still mostly worked. Because something seemed wrong, I removed the (much lighter) speaker. WTF?
Hello! Am going to contact Ficar and tell them the screws are too short, with one not even through the hole. They did not back off based on the fact that the screw heads do not have any visible space below them.
Man that's crazy! Seems as if you're having some incredibly bad luck when it comes to drivers.

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post #22 of 86 Old 09-12-2018, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebb View Post
Well, after thoroughly enjoying my new speakers, a magnet fell off of one. There is a cabinet brace right below that the magnet was sitting on. So it still mostly worked. Because something seemed wrong, I removed the (much lighter) speaker. WTF?

Hello! Am going to contact Ficar and tell them the screws are too short, with one not even through the hole. They did not back off based on the fact that the screw heads do not have any visible space below them.


I think there is a higher power that just doesn’t want you to enjoy bass.


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post #23 of 86 Old 09-12-2018, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Man that's crazy! Seems as if you're having some incredibly bad luck when it comes to drivers.
Agreed. Makes me think I should give up.

@Trimlock -had the same thought.

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)
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post #24 of 86 Old 09-12-2018, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Got a response from Ficar. Scott will get back to me about making it right.

Will continue to update the saga as it unfolds.

@BassThatHz -Does this one count as #4 or not because a manufacturing defect? Personally, I would say not, but you never know.

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post #25 of 86 Old 09-22-2018, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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patience

Brian responded back this week. He said Scott is making another and it will be shipped when done. If that is the case, then wow, awesome customer service. I can't complain overall.

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)
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post #26 of 86 Old 09-22-2018, 05:58 PM
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Brian responded back this week. He said Scott is making another and it will be shipped when done. If that is the case, then wow, awesome customer service. I can't complain overall.
Glad you’ve had a good experience with them. How do you think the sound signature compares to the UM18?

I’m wanting to get one of their HT1 18’s when they’re released

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post #27 of 86 Old 09-29-2018, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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well...

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Glad you’ve had a good experience with them. How do you think the sound signature compares to the UM18?

I’m wanting to get one of their HT1 18’s when they’re released
I like them. They have not blown up from the inuke6k like the Daytom UM18s did. However, I am still waiting for the replacement sub. It has not arrived yet. If it does, then it will be a good experience.

As far as the sound signature, I am not sure I understand what that is? I can say I like the subs. However, I have them in the basement, below the living room where we watch movies. So the sound signature is not somoething I can comment on. I use them for tactile feel for the house. In that regard, they do well. With only one sub right now, it still vibrates the house. So I like them in my application.

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)
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post #28 of 86 Old 09-29-2018, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebb View Post
I like them. They have not blown up from the inuke6k like the Daytom UM18s did. However, I am still waiting for the replacement sub. It has not arrived yet. If it does, then it will be a good experience.

As far as the sound signature, I am not sure I understand what that is? I can say I like the subs. However, I have them in the basement, below the living room where we watch movies. So the sound signature is not somoething I can comment on. I use them for tactile feel for the house. In that regard, they do well. With only one sub right now, it still vibrates the house. So I like them in my application.

Huh? So you do not have the subwoofers in the room that you use to watch movies? That's going to be part of your problem with short lifespan, if you are over drivng them in order to get levels that are satisfying.
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Ask your doctor if DIY is right for you. Side effects of DIY may include anxiety, elevated blood pressure, lightheadedness, rapid heartbeat, skeletal muscle flaccidity, euphoria, psychological dependence, insomnia, confusion, blurred vision, impulsivity, uncontrolled or repeated movements.
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post #29 of 86 Old 09-29-2018, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebb View Post
I like them. They have not blown up from the inuke6k like the Daytom UM18s did. However, I am still waiting for the replacement sub. It has not arrived yet. If it does, then it will be a good experience.

As far as the sound signature, I am not sure I understand what that is? I can say I like the subs. However, I have them in the basement, below the living room where we watch movies. So the sound signature is not somoething I can comment on. I use them for tactile feel for the house. In that regard, they do well. With only one sub right now, it still vibrates the house. So I like them in my application.

Huh? So you do not have the subwoofers in the room that you use to watch movies? That may be part of your problem with short lifespan, if you are over drivng them in order to get levels that are satisfying.

Ask your doctor if DIY is right for you. Side effects of DIY may include anxiety, elevated blood pressure, lightheadedness, rapid heartbeat, skeletal muscle flaccidity, euphoria, psychological dependence, insomnia, confusion, blurred vision, impulsivity, uncontrolled or repeated movements.
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post #30 of 86 Old 09-29-2018, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Huh? So you do not have the subwoofers in the room that you use to watch movies? That may be part of your problem with short lifespan, if you are over drivng them in order to get levels that are satisfying.
The ultimax's were initially fine for movies and my music. So not overdriving because in a different room. Overdriving and frying three UM18s with dedicated bass tracks AFTER I added a dedicated 20 amp circuit. Prior to that, I never tripped the breaker. The bass tracks (Bass I love you, Bass Mekanik - Bass Ballin' (Feat. Tec, Gangsta Big And G.I.) etc) kept tripping the original breaker after a few seconds. Added the dedicated 20 amp circuit, stopped tripping the breaker. Instead, killed subs. Went to the Ficar SSD neos because they have a higher RMS rating. They have been good so far.

The Ficar issue is one had the magnet fall off because 5 of the 6 fasteners too short with only what appears to be a partial thread engaged into the magnet. The sixth fastener is WAY too short as it does not even protrude through the frame. So, I contacted Ficar. They responded back through email that another will be/has been sent.

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)

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