Tapped Horn sub - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 08-05-2018, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Tapped Horn sub

Hi all,

I hope I'm not asking for too much, but here goes.

I'm looking into "converting" to a tapped horn subwoofer from my existing, and very well integrated and capable SVS SB16-Ultra (sealed), and would appreciate some feedback before taking the jump, so to speak.

My setup is 2-channel, and my main speakers are Simon Mears Audio Uccello's, which are all-horn speakers derived from the Klipsch Belle, and sport a 105dB sensitivity.

The (single) SB16-Ultra is low-passed at 61Hz/24dB, and the Uccello's are run full range. I won't consider high-passing the Uccello's unless they're fully active, which would require quite a big operation, and that's not going to happen anytime soon - if at all. The SB-16 is placed just to the right of center between my main speakers, next to the electronics. Had financial means allowed I'd have used two SB-16's.

The remaining setup (not that it may matter in this context) is the Belles SA-30 pure Class-A poweramp, SOtM sDP-1000 DAC/preamp (I use no separate preamp) and SOtM sMS-200ultra (12V) network player + sPS-500 PSU. I won't make a rundown on the cables, unless called for. My listening room is some 215 square ft. (16.5 x 13), and my setup is placed along the shortest wall.

First, the tapped horn in question is poster @lilmike 's (known on this site) "Microwrecker," loaded by a 15" driver. Originally I had considered getting two of them to finally go dual sub, but the space of my dedicated listening is simply too crammed to house two of those behemoths (20 cubic ft. per nose), so that's a story for another listening place. The M-Wrecker has a low corner just above 20Hz, and sensitivity will be dictated by the driver - in my case about 96dB's (via the B&C 15TBX100).

Now then, why do I consider exchanging my SB-16 for the Microwrecker? The SB-16 is doing very good in my setup; it integrates well, is "musical," and both powerful and very extended. I'm assuming though that a quality horn bass augmenting all-horn main speakers will have something special going for it being that it operates even more at ease compared to a direct radiating solution like a single SB-16, and that it couples to the air in a fashion that complements my main speakers favorably. Moreover the tapped horn is a "force multiplier" of its 15" unit, and so should provide an even more room-filling and enveloping sensation.

I have concerns though. I won't be readily able to place the M-Wrecker between my main speakers, and it will therefore have to be placed against the right sidewall somewhere between the setup and listening position, which may call for the need of delay and cause phase/timing issues. Then there's the fact the M-Wrecker won't be placed rather centrally like the SB-16, but to the right of the listening position. Would that "tilt" the overall presentation, or is it a non-issue when considering the presumed low-ish low-pass of some 60Hz, where directionality is hardly felt?

I know this post may trigger conflict between the different camps of sealed, reflex, horn bass or otherwise, and while not my intention please share your views nonetheless, respectfully, and feel free to chime in.

Sorry for the long post. To those who've endured, thanks.

Last edited by rezag; 08-05-2018 at 12:16 PM.
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post #2 of 17 Old 08-05-2018, 12:48 PM
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I would try the sub you have now in the location where you would put the horn so you can see if it will give you a decent frequency response. No point in building a gigantic sub that can only fit in one spot and that spot happens to be a place that gives you a poor FR.
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post #3 of 17 Old 08-06-2018, 11:47 AM
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Not sure how low the B&C 15TBX100 would play in a horn.
Is this for mid-bass or ULF?
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post #4 of 17 Old 08-06-2018, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
I would try the sub you have now in the location where you would put the horn so you can see if it will give you a decent frequency response. No point in building a gigantic sub that can only fit in one spot and that spot happens to be a place that gives you a poor FR.
I agree. Horns can be awesome but I did just what you are thinking about and built a 19x19x96" horn that could only go in a few spots. While it was crazy loud and made 1 15 seem like 8 it is still just one subwoofer. Now, If you can build 2 of them and get them in different spots for even room response youd be hard pressed to beat it.

Notfastenough built 2 THT's with ultimax drivers and im not sure if his house is still standing or not, but he seemed to be very very very impressed and pleased with them.

Another guy had 2 lilwreckers and could make vision blur.

So where I ended up, and I hate to keep bringing up these darn JBL 12's...but im running 4 12's with 4 more about to go in and Im way happier then just the single 15 horn. IF I had the space I think I wouldve built another horn, then stack them on top of eachother and have them facing opposite directions behind my screen. Im keeping mine because down the road I just may use it if I find myself with a bigger house.

So basically my thoughts are you should add another sub if you can, 2 subs is still better then 1 horn in my eyes unless you really really dont care about only your listening position. Me...If I have people over I dont know where ill sit, and I dont want to give them the seat with no bass, and I dont want to sit in it myself lol. This is what multiple subs vs one sub is great for.
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post #5 of 17 Old 08-06-2018, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezag View Post
Hi all,

I hope I'm not asking for too much, but here goes.

I'm looking into "converting" to a tapped horn subwoofer from my existing, and very well integrated and capable SVS SB16-Ultra (sealed), and would appreciate some feedback before taking the jump, so to speak.

My setup is 2-channel, and my main speakers are Simon Mears Audio Uccello's, which are all-horn speakers derived from the Klipsch Belle, and sport a 105dB sensitivity.

The (single) SB16-Ultra is low-passed at 61Hz/24dB, and the Uccello's are run full range. I won't consider high-passing the Uccello's unless they're fully active, which would require quite a big operation, and that's not going to happen anytime soon - if at all. The SB-16 is placed just to the right of center between my main speakers, next to the electronics. Had financial means allowed I'd have used two SB-16's.

The remaining setup (not that it may matter in this context) is the Belles SA-30 pure Class-A poweramp, SOtM sDP-1000 DAC/preamp (I use no separate preamp) and SOtM sMS-200ultra (12V) network player + sPS-500 PSU. I won't make a rundown on the cables, unless called for. My listening room is some 215 square ft. (16.5 x 13), and my setup is placed along the shortest wall.

First, the tapped horn in question is poster @lilmike 's (known on this site) "Microwrecker," loaded by a 15" driver. Originally I had considered getting two of them to finally go dual sub, but the space of my dedicated listening is simply too crammed to house two of those behemoths (20 cubic ft. per nose), so that's a story for another listening place. The M-Wrecker has a low corner just above 20Hz, and sensitivity will be dictated by the driver - in my case about 96dB's (via the B&C 15TBX100).

Now then, why do I consider exchanging my SB-16 for the Microwrecker? The SB-16 is doing very good in my setup; it integrates well, is "musical," and both powerful and very extended. I'm assuming though that a quality horn bass augmenting all-horn main speakers will have something special going for it being that it operates even more at ease compared to a direct radiating solution like a single SB-16, and that it couples to the air in a fashion that complements my main speakers favorably. Moreover the tapped horn is a "force multiplier" of its 15" unit, and so should provide an even more room-filling and enveloping sensation.

I have concerns though. I won't be readily able to place the M-Wrecker between my main speakers, and it will therefore have to be placed against the right sidewall somewhere between the setup and listening position, which may call for the need of delay and cause phase/timing issues. Then there's the fact the M-Wrecker won't be placed rather centrally like the SB-16, but to the right of the listening position. Would that "tilt" the overall presentation, or is it a non-issue when considering the presumed low-ish low-pass of some 60Hz, where directionality is hardly felt?

I know this post may trigger conflict between the different camps of sealed, reflex, horn bass or otherwise, and while not my intention please share your views nonetheless, respectfully, and feel free to chime in.

Sorry for the long post. To those who've endured, thanks.

No offense to svs but that 15"ish sized sealed sub will be walked on by a 15" TH especially lilmikes micro. The svs biggest advantage is the small footprint. Coming from a guy that put 2400wrms on two RE audio SEX12's in a large dual opposed sealed box (to keep it from walking off). I replaced them with dual picowreckers from lilmikes design pdf (only two little 10" sws alpines). They do so much more than you'd expect and on 1800wrms. The 12's would strain to fill more than half the garage space I use this in (32x36). The pico's have no problems at all and extend outside to the carport to rock when washing cars etc. Just giving an idea.

Agreed as posted above take the svs cube and place it where you plan to build a huge TH footprint and see the response. I'd say if can stack or get them in there do duals as well. Make sure have a HPF and enough power ie inuke or ep4000 (950wrms/channel for each sub; dual 2 ohm coils wired @4ohm each)

Welcome to insane output from relatively small footprint. Hey it's smaller than a array of subs and that is efficiency.

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post #6 of 17 Old 08-06-2018, 09:34 PM
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Thanks for the reference @trilkb . Didn't think anyone would remember the build lol. Still very happy with them and every demo has ended with smiles and/or bewilderment.

@rezag , look at bill fitzmaurice's web site and find the THT and look at the THTLP. Square foot wise, terrific bang for the buck. No HPF needed, and a known build in the DIY world. Build as wide as space permits.

Perhaps with these stood on end, you could place a pair of them. No one is steering you wrong by suggesting a pair in separate locations. And horns LOVE corners btw.

If crossing very low like you suggested, they could be in the back of the room and your ears would be none-the-wiser. Just a bit of delay needed (which is an absolute necessity thanks to the horn length anyways).

Honestly, for the most direct answer, details (constraints/compromises) about the room will help the most. Pictures are always welcome
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post #7 of 17 Old 08-07-2018, 04:17 AM
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Which cables are you using?

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post #8 of 17 Old 08-07-2018, 08:03 AM
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Which cables are you using?
Who are you asking? Also, which cables? I didn't see a reference to cables in this thread, or I'm just missing it.
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post #9 of 17 Old 08-07-2018, 10:17 AM
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Celebrating 5 yrs of building . . .

30" THTLP black fabric: footprint , just right, in the front right corner and vertical firing into the ceiling and
the 24" red, behind the seat on the floor, fires into the lower left corner

solid clean response ina room about 100 ft^2.
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post #10 of 17 Old 08-07-2018, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
I would try the sub you have now in the location where you would put the horn so you can see if it will give you a decent frequency response. No point in building a gigantic sub that can only fit in one spot and that spot happens to be a place that gives you a poor FR.
Duly noted, thanks - that will have to be tried out for further assessment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Not sure how low the B&C 15TBX100 would play in a horn.
Is this for mid-bass or ULF?
Actually it's more of a mid-bass driver (certainly no ULF) that lilmike has informed models very well in the Microwrecker. But the thing is, a tapped horn can take such a mid-bass driver (that models well in the given tapped horn) and turn it into bass monster to around 20Hz (give or take, depending on the specific TH), while maintaining the sensitivity of the drive unit. Other tapped horns, like Danley's TH-115 (where the B&C 15TBX100 is also used) don't go as low, but in return will sport a higher sensitivity. You go sub 20Hz with a tapped horn and you start eating further away of the sensitivity, and horn size increases rapidly. So, for music/HT use the M-Wrecker seems like a good compromise in terms of extension, sensitivity and sheer size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
I agree. Horns can be awesome but I did just what you are thinking about and built a 19x19x96" horn that could only go in a few spots. While it was crazy loud and made 1 15 seem like 8 it is still just one subwoofer. Now, If you can build 2 of them and get them in different spots for even room response youd be hard pressed to beat it.

Notfastenough built 2 THT's with ultimax drivers and im not sure if his house is still standing or not, but he seemed to be very very very impressed and pleased with them.

Another guy had 2 lilwreckers and could make vision blur.

So where I ended up, and I hate to keep bringing up these darn JBL 12's...but im running 4 12's with 4 more about to go in and Im way happier then just the single 15 horn. IF I had the space I think I wouldve built another horn, then stack them on top of eachother and have them facing opposite directions behind my screen. Im keeping mine because down the road I just may use it if I find myself with a bigger house.

So basically my thoughts are you should add another sub if you can, 2 subs is still better then 1 horn in my eyes unless you really really dont care about only your listening position. Me...If I have people over I dont know where ill sit, and I dont want to give them the seat with no bass, and I dont want to sit in it myself lol. This is what multiple subs vs one sub is great for.
Yeah, point taken on using two tapped horns, and not just one. It's not impossible in my listening room, just.. well, darn imposing. I'm still thinking to possibly start out with one, and then see where that leads. And thanks for mentioning Bills THT(LP) - actually I've been looking into that one at an earlier juncture, and I'm sure it's a very capable bass horn - feedback is certainly positive. For my temperament though I've settled on the M-Wrecker, as it seems to bring some qualities to the table that I find intriguing. It's indeed crazy what a tapped horn can supposedly do with a single 15," or a smaller unit for that matter, like with the Pico. That's what really amazes me, that such a horn can unload the driver in a sense and take the heavy burden off it. All the more reason to expect that effortless bass quality, while effectively setting in motion much more air than the drive unit alone (i.e.: as a direct radiating unit) would be capable of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
No offense to svs but that 15"ish sized sealed sub will be walked on by a 15" TH especially lilmikes micro. The svs biggest advantage is the small footprint. Coming from a guy that put 2400wrms on two RE audio SEX12's in a large dual opposed sealed box (to keep it from walking off). I replaced them with dual picowreckers from lilmikes design pdf (only two little 10" sws alpines). They do so much more than you'd expect and on 1800wrms. The 12's would strain to fill more than half the garage space I use this in (32x36). The pico's have no problems at all and extend outside to the carport to rock when washing cars etc. Just giving an idea.

Agreed as posted above take the svs cube and place it where you plan to build a huge TH footprint and see the response. I'd say if can stack or get them in there do duals as well. Make sure have a HPF and enough power ie inuke or ep4000 (950wrms/channel for each sub; dual 2 ohm coils wired @4ohm each)

Welcome to insane output from relatively small footprint. Hey it's smaller than a array of subs and that is efficiency.
Oh, no offence taken. Please, throw the gloves, people, and let me learn of your honest oppinions I need that kind of feedback to get a bearing on the difference between my SVS and a tapped horn, being that I have no experience with the latter. Conversely some may advice me to run away screaming from a tapped horn, but, too late

Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Thanks for the reference @trilkb . Didn't think anyone would remember the build lol. Still very happy with them and every demo has ended with smiles and/or bewilderment.

@rezag , look at bill fitzmaurice's web site and find the THT and look at the THTLP. Square foot wise, terrific bang for the buck. No HPF needed, and a known build in the DIY world. Build as wide as space permits.

Perhaps with these stood on end, you could place a pair of them. No one is steering you wrong by suggesting a pair in separate locations. And horns LOVE corners btw.

If crossing very low like you suggested, they could be in the back of the room and your ears would be none-the-wiser. Just a bit of delay needed (which is an absolute necessity thanks to the horn length anyways).

Honestly, for the most direct answer, details (constraints/compromises) about the room will help the most. Pictures are always welcome
Thanks for recommending a different placement of the TH. Will a (mini-)DSP be able to apply sufficient delay? And regarding the THT; thanks, but per above I've settled on the M-Wrecker Actually Josh Ricci's Othorn (tapped horn with a 21" B&C unit) also appeals to me, but that sucker is a true monster and likely way way WAY above my league, so to speak

I'll get back with more details about my listening room

Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Who are you asking? Also, which cables? I didn't see a reference to cables in this thread, or I'm just missing it.
Oh, didn't I miss a reply above on the same question? Well, sorry - didn't intend for that, but since it's asked here as well. Cables? Well, main speaker cables are a shotgun combination (single-wire termination)of 1.5mm Mundorf Silver/Gold solid core wires and Duelund DCA16GA. IC's are KaDo RCA (Danish cables), and power cords are DIY twisted 1.5mm solid core copper wires with pure copper IeGo connectors. USB cable is Wireworld (can't remember the model name), but that one's likely up for replacement sometime in the near future.

A picture of my setup attached.
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Last edited by rezag; 08-07-2018 at 03:35 PM.
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post #11 of 17 Old 08-07-2018, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
Celebrating 5 yrs of building . . .

30" THTLP black fabric: footprint , just right, in the front right corner and vertical firing into the ceiling and
the 24" red, behind the seat on the floor, fires into the lower left corner

solid clean response ina room about 100 ft^2.
Thanks for supplied pics and curve - looks impressive!
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post #12 of 17 Old 08-08-2018, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezag View Post
Duly noted, thanks - that will have to be tried out for further assessment.



Actually it's more of a mid-bass driver (certainly no ULF) that lilmike has informed models very well in the Microwrecker. But the thing is, a tapped horn can take such a mid-bass driver (that models well in the given tapped horn) and turn it into bass monster to around 20Hz (give or take, depending on the specific TH), while maintaining the sensitivity of the drive unit. Other tapped horns, like Danley's TH-115 (where the B&C 15TBX100 is also used) don't go as low, but in return will sport a higher sensitivity. You go sub 20Hz with a tapped horn and you start eating further away of the sensitivity, and horn size increases rapidly. So, for music/HT use the M-Wrecker seems like a good compromise in terms of extension, sensitivity and sheer size.



Yeah, point taken on using two tapped horns, and not just one. It's not impossible in my listening room, just.. well, darn imposing. I'm still thinking to possibly start out with one, and then see where that leads. And thanks for mentioning Bills THT(LP) - actually I've been looking into that one at an earlier juncture, and I'm sure it's a very capable bass horn - feedback is certainly positive. For my temperament though I've settled on the M-Wrecker, as it seems to bring some qualities to the table that I find intriguing. It's indeed crazy what a tapped horn can supposedly do with a single 15," or a smaller unit for that matter, like with the Pico. That's what really amazes me, that such a horn can unload the driver in a sense and take the heavy burden off it. All the more reason to expect that effortless bass quality, while effectively setting in motion much more air than the drive unit alone (i.e.: as a direct radiating unit) would be capable of.



Oh, no offence taken. Please, throw the gloves, people, and let me learn of your honest oppinions I need that kind of feedback to get a bearing on the difference between my SVS and a tapped horn, being that I have no experience with the latter. Conversely some may advice me to run away screaming from a tapped horn, but, too late



Thanks for recommending a different placement of the TH. Will a (mini-)DSP be able to apply sufficient delay? And regarding the THT; thanks, but per above I've settled on the M-Wrecker Actually Josh Ricci's Othorn (tapped horn with a 21" B&C unit) also appeals to me, but that sucker is a true monster and likely way way WAY above my league, so to speak

I'll get back with more details about my listening room



Oh, didn't I miss a reply above on the same question? Well, sorry - didn't intend for that, but since it's asked here as well. Cables? Well, main speaker cables are a shotgun combination (single-wire termination)of 1.5mm Mundorf Silver/Gold solid core wires and Duelund DCA16GA. IC's are KaDo RCA (Danish cables), and power cords are DIY twisted 1.5mm solid core copper wires with pure copper IeGo connectors. USB cable is Wireworld (can't remember the model name), but that one's likely up for replacement sometime in the near future.

A picture of my setup attached.
I think you'll really like the TH with your setup. Lot's of designs as mentioned, but yup hard to beat a Micro/Pico for output and build simplicity. I also wouldn't discount the alpine sws driver used due to how well it excels in the configuration. Would like to hear your impressions once dialed in the setup with it.

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post #13 of 17 Old 08-08-2018, 07:47 AM
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The othorn is actually smaller than the micro wrecker I think. The othorn is 18 cubic feet external. 36x36x24.
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post #14 of 17 Old 08-08-2018, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezag View Post
Thanks for recommending a different placement of the TH. Will a (mini-)DSP be able to apply sufficient delay? And regarding the THT; thanks, but per above I've settled on the M-Wrecker Actually Josh Ricci's Othorn (tapped horn with a 21" B&C unit) also appeals to me, but that sucker is a true monster and likely way way WAY above my league, so to speak
Yes, but I would suggest using the 2X4 HD. The amount of delay available on the standard 2X4 can be an issue when you add the length of the horn plus the distance to the MLP. My AVR is only a couple of feet of delay away from max with a physical distance of 14 ft to the mouth plus the horn length. If you perform the sub/main integration by mtg90, you might need even more delay, YMMV.
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post #15 of 17 Old 08-10-2018, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
I think you'll really like the TH with your setup. Lot's of designs as mentioned, but yup hard to beat a Micro/Pico for output and build simplicity. I also wouldn't discount the alpine sws driver used due to how well it excels in the configuration. Would like to hear your impressions once dialed in the setup with it.
Initially I looked into the Alpine driver and its availability here in Europe since it has been mentioned rather prominently in conjunction with the M-Wrecker, but later lilmike brought to my attention the B&C driver, which supposedly models excellently in the same horn as well (as does a more expensive sibling from B&C, I believe the 15WS115), and can be had at a more favorable price here in Europe compared to the Alpine unit (which, conversely, is actually a cheaper driver "natively"). I don't believe I've read of anyone testing named B&C driver, the 15TBX100, in the M-Wrecker, so if I commence with this project - which will be with the B&C unit - I'd be glad to give some detailed feedback on the outcome

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Originally Posted by Samps View Post
The othorn is actually smaller than the micro wrecker I think. The othorn is 18 cubic feet external. 36x36x24.
You're right, actually - they're very much in the same ballpark size-wise. My reference to the Othorn and its "insaneness" was more in regards to sheer wallop, if you will, if it's even anything to "worry" about. I mean, if that sucker stretches its legs at bit in a moderately sized listening room like mine, not only the windows but the windowsills will pop! Truth be told it seems the M-Wrecker will have the same effect once "let loose".. Perhaps what speaks mostly to the M-Wrecker as is is a slightly lower low corner, perhaps by 5Hz or so, and that it's a cheaper build overall - while maintaining a very capable package.

Speaking of which, and to follow up on the remark above by poster @trilkb that such horns make "1 15 sound like 8," is there really any way to quantify the "force multiplying effect" that tapped horns, or other types of bass horns for that matter, brings with them? To simplify: what does a 15" unit in a tapped horn like the M-Wrecker convert into in number of 15" units - realistically? 2-3 15" units? 8 seems like a crazy number, but what do I know

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Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Yes, but I would suggest using the 2X4 HD. The amount of delay available on the standard 2X4 can be an issue when you add the length of the horn plus the distance to the MLP. My AVR is only a couple of feet of delay away from max with a physical distance of 14 ft to the mouth plus the horn length. If you perform the sub/main integration by mtg90, you might need even more delay, YMMV.
Interesting - will have to look into options here.
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post #16 of 17 Old 08-10-2018, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rezag View Post

A picture of my setup attached.
WOW, I just have to comment on what I consider a awesome rig. I ran a pair of Klipsch LaScala's for 32 years with a stereo pair of HSU 7' tall subwoofers in the later years. Amps were VTL tubes on the horns, SS on the sub's and a passive preamp. No one can truly understand the qualities of a big full range horn system unless they're lived with one for some time. The power, speed and impact gives music a live sound that can't be bettered by standard cone fartboxes.
Enjoy that incredible rig!
Sal
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post #17 of 17 Old 08-11-2018, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
WOW, I just have to comment on what I consider a awesome rig. I ran a pair of Klipsch LaScala's for 32 years with a stereo pair of HSU 7' tall subwoofers in the later years. Amps were VTL tubes on the horns, SS on the sub's and a passive preamp. No one can truly understand the qualities of a big full range horn system unless they're lived with one for some time. The power, speed and impact gives music a live sound that can't be bettered by standard cone fartboxes.
Enjoy that incredible rig!
Sal
Thanks, man, for your kind remarks! It's nice to know of some who shares one's idiosyncrasies in sound reproduction Your own (former?) rig sounds to be impressive as well, and how many can claim having owned the same pair of speakers for over 30 years? In the arena of "hifi" speaker replacement in particular is frequent, but even off the merry-go-round not that many of them seem to be going strong after 3-4 decades. There is indeed something to be said of Klipsch's Heritage line of horn speakers and their durability/longevity. What's the status of your current setup - have the La Scala's been sold off?

A local hifi dealer, whom I've known for some years, has his downtown store just a few minutes from where we live, and I go there occasionally to listen to some of the gear he's demoing and have a talk about hifi in general. He's never had any horn speakers in store, let alone all-horns, but speaks with interest of acquiring more sensitive speakers (i.e.: +90dB's) to add to his repertoire. Just today I listened to a pair of DeVORE Gibbon 88's he had in store coupled to a Leben CS600 and Rega CD-player, and it made for a pleasurable listen. Although, while the DeVORE's have their traits (I like them better than many alternatives), like most other direct radiating speakers they seem somehow "trebly" and lean sounding compared to my own horns - malnourished even.

Generally I find most hifi speakers to draw too much attention to themselves in the upper frequency regions, and perhaps this is more a matter of lacking fullness and impact in the upper bass and lower to central mids than dialing the tweeters too hot per se. Sometimes I can even find my own speakers/setup sounding a bit rolled compared to a recent dose of the typical "hifi fare," but after a short while I'm relieved to find the balance to be just right to my ears, and the top end to actually be more refined and ingrained with the mids through my horns.

Then there's the all-important aspect of effortlessness to the sound, where all-horn speakers are simply leagues ahead. Although my SVS sub seems never to strain, even through powerful Blu-ray soundtracks, I'm guessing a tapped horn sub will bring a different sense of ease and enveloping feel to the sound that compliments the main horns quite well.
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