Dayton hf 12” build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 37 Old 08-23-2018, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Dayton hf 12” build

My sub is on its way and I was set on doing a 2 cube box for it sealed. But the more I read up I’m wondering if I should do ported. This is strictly for music (tv I don’t care for the bass from this I have a theatre build going on in the basement) so I was aiming for sealed for some tight bass. I listen to a wide variety of music. So my question is anyone use this sub for both sealed and ported? Amp being used is the sledge svs amp from a nsd series - 400 Watts rms.
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post #2 of 37 Old 08-23-2018, 07:11 AM
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“Tight” bass has more to do with EQ and room modes. If you port it low enough you might introduce spikes that will sound “boomy.”

I’d port though, you lose a lot of extension with sealed.


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post #3 of 37 Old 08-23-2018, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimlock View Post
“Tight” bass has more to do with EQ and room modes. If you port it low enough you might introduce spikes that will sound “boomy.”

I’d port though, you lose a lot of extension with sealed.


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Well that’s part of the reason now that I’m questioning myself. I listen to music that goes as low as 28hz and up. I do have hardwood floors and a corner to put it in if I went sealed. I almost ordered a flared port and wish I did
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post #4 of 37 Old 08-23-2018, 08:00 AM
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How large is the listening room and is it an open area? If it is a small area that is closed, you can probably get what you want sealed especially if you optimize the placement. If bass is a very important factor and you are needing to use that driver, you could always throw it into a horn Also, what is the highest listening level that you want to achieve? Need enough db to keep up, so bear that in mind as well.

However, a box model and room simulation have shown pretty good results for many.
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post #5 of 37 Old 08-23-2018, 08:33 AM
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A 2ft^3 box with the RSS315hf-4 12"-HF starts to fall off after ~40hz in a sealed box, but a port tuned to 20hz-25hz can push your lowest 28hz-30hz content up 5db louder and flatter.

This woofer in this box shouldn't really get spikey/boomy results from a port unless it's tuned higher, around 30hz-35hz+.

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post #6 of 37 Old 08-23-2018, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
A 2ft^3 box with the RSS315hf-4 12"-HF starts to fall off after ~40hz in a sealed box, but a port tuned to 20hz-25hz can push your lowest 28hz-30hz content up 5db louder and flatter.

This woofer in this box shouldn't really get spikey/boomy results from a port unless it's tuned higher, around 30hz-35hz+.
Room is roughly 400 sq ft, but opens up to kitchen and front hallway and stairs ect. So I’m guessing I should do ported. It’s too late for me to order flare ports, so I would have to build a slot port.
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post #7 of 37 Old 08-24-2018, 07:34 AM
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I've used this sub extensively both sealed and ported. In a 2.6 cubic foot sealed enclosure this sub "oil canned" a lot when pushed (even with just a BASH300 amp). I know this sub is "meant" for sealed, but unless you're listening at pretty modest volumes, I wouldn't go sealed with this sub.

I popped it into a 4 cubic foot ported box, tuned to 20 Hz and it was like night and day. Much more output with less watts and didn't ever oil can, even at very high volumes.

The only major issue with this sub in a ported box is that it needs a pretty damn big box for a 12".
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post #8 of 37 Old 08-24-2018, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
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you could always throw it into a horn
I like this guys idea... build a horn. I think the T50 is for a 12"
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post #9 of 37 Old 08-25-2018, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Any box designs for this sub? Looking to start today or tomorrow building this. I was told 3 cubes tunes to 24hz modeled good for this sub
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post #10 of 37 Old 08-25-2018, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post
Any box designs for this sub? Looking to start today or tomorrow building this. I was told 3 cubes tunes to 24hz modeled good for this sub
I run this driver in a passive radiator box configuration and it is extremely musical with great low end extension but not really the best design for super bass heavy movies at very high volumes.
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post #11 of 37 Old 08-25-2018, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post
Any box designs for this sub? Looking to start today or tomorrow building this. I was told 3 cubes tunes to 24hz modeled good for this sub
Any idea what the high pass filter is on that amp? Is there any boost? These things will matter.
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post #12 of 37 Old 08-25-2018, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spectre55 View Post
Any idea what the high pass filter is on that amp? Is there any boost? These things will matter.
No boost, and not sure about high pass only has low pass on the back
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post #13 of 37 Old 08-27-2018, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkwitz Riley View Post
I run this driver in a passive radiator box configuration and it is extremely musical with great low end extension but not really the best design for super bass heavy movies at very high volumes.
Agree with this assessment. Articulate and high quality sub with good extension. However, needs a huge box and will make bad noises when pushed at high volumes with movies.



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No boost, and not sure about high pass only has low pass on the back
Okay, well you just want to make sure that the HPF is aligned (more or less) with whatever tuning you go with, if you go ported/PR. With sealed it won't matter.

If I were you I would just go 1.5-2 cubes sealed, since this is exclusively for music.
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post #14 of 37 Old 08-27-2018, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Question

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Originally Posted by Spectre55 View Post
Agree with this assessment. Articulate and high quality sub with good extension. However, needs a huge box and will make bad noises when pushed at high volumes with movies.





Okay, well you just want to make sure that the HPF is aligned (more or less) with whatever tuning you go with, if you go ported/PR. With sealed it won't matter.

If I were you I would just go 1.5-2 cubes sealed, since this is exclusively for music.
I’ve been chatting with a guy that modeled this sub and said 3cubes tuned to 24hz. So building a box roughly 3.4 cubes.
Port is 2x10. 27” long. I’ve also been told I’ll loose a lot of output if I go sealed. This is strictly for music and I listen to a lot of bass heavy music also but not full tilt either.
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post #15 of 37 Old 08-27-2018, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post
I’ve been chatting with a guy that modeled this sub and said 3cubes tuned to 24hz. So building a box roughly 3.4 cubes.
Port is 2x10. 27” long. I’ve also been told I’ll loose a lot of output if I go sealed. This is strictly for music and I listen to a lot of bass heavy music also but not full tilt either.
I probably had the same guy message me when I was deciding on my build. I was happy for his input as well!! I ended up going 4 cubes with a 19 Hz tune because it modeled the best in WinISD.

I think what he is suggesting for you is fine, but just check the port velocity to make sure it's fine. I can check on WinISD later tonight for you if you want (and if I remember...my brain is mush these days...).
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post #16 of 37 Old 08-27-2018, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spectre55 View Post
I probably had the same guy message me when I was deciding on my build. I was happy for his input as well!! I ended up going 4 cubes with a 19 Hz tune because it modeled the best in WinISD.

I think what he is suggesting for you is fine, but just check the port velocity to make sure it's fine. I can check on WinISD later tonight for you if you want (and if I remember...my brain is mush these days...).

Here is what he said


I did a quick Model this morning.
Vented:
3.0ft^3 Tuned to 24hz
20in^2 of vent area (2" x 10" slot vent) at 27.4" long
Yields a -3db point anechoic (no room gain) at 24.5hz
Cone Excursion stays in check even with 400 watts input power
Vent Velocity stays below 17m/s even with 400 watts input power
An infrasonic filter 4th order at 15 hz was used to keep the vent excursion in check and protect the woofer below tuning. This could be increased to 18hz without impacting extension much
If you want to go sealed you can, but you will give up a lot of the every low end performance since the F3 moves all the way up to 45hz.

And yes please If you want to re check winisd. I tried to download it but I have a Mac and it wouldn’t let me
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post #17 of 37 Old 08-27-2018, 05:31 PM
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I used this driver in a sonotube and it worked pretty good. Lowes and Home Depot sell a 12" tube that will work. It's like $10. It only comes in 4 foot length which is perfect. Ends up around 3 cubic feet. For only music I would go with a 6" port tuned in the 27hz range.

Super lightweight too. You could carry it under one arm.
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post #18 of 37 Old 08-28-2018, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post
Here is what he said


I did a quick Model this morning.
Vented:
3.0ft^3 Tuned to 24hz
20in^2 of vent area (2" x 10" slot vent) at 27.4" long
Yields a -3db point anechoic (no room gain) at 24.5hz
Cone Excursion stays in check even with 400 watts input power
Vent Velocity stays below 17m/s even with 400 watts input power
An infrasonic filter 4th order at 15 hz was used to keep the vent excursion in check and protect the woofer below tuning. This could be increased to 18hz without impacting extension much
If you want to go sealed you can, but you will give up a lot of the every low end performance since the F3 moves all the way up to 45hz.

And yes please If you want to re check winisd. I tried to download it but I have a Mac and it wouldn’t let me
That sounds pretty thorough, I think he knows his stuff. I also just remembered I was using the 8 ohm version, which is why mine defaulted to a 4 cube box.

So that all sounds good, but you really need to figure out what the HPF is on that amp. Maybe try emailing SVS to see what they say. I am sure they have that information somewhere.
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post #19 of 37 Old 08-28-2018, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre55 View Post
That sounds pretty thorough, I think he knows his stuff. I also just remembered I was using the 8 ohm version, which is why mine defaulted to a 4 cube box.

So that all sounds good, but you really need to figure out what the HPF is on that amp. Maybe try emailing SVS to see what they say. I am sure they have that information somewhere.


80hz hpf
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post #20 of 37 Old 08-28-2018, 04:11 PM
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I recently had the same debate, sealed, ported, or passive radiator. I was quite certain I should do ported and was convinced otherwise by somebody with much more experience. Their thought was given the use (music only), given the listening levels (loud but not painfully so), and the amplifier (behringer NU1000dsp), a sealed cabinet would provide more than enough bass.

I built a 1ft^3 sealed cabinet using a Dayton Audio Titanic 10" driver.

Prior to EQ adjustments the response rose roughly 12db from 20hz to 70hz. Instead to attempting to increase output at 20hz I decreased output of everything above 30hz to be closer to 20. After doing so and applying a highpass filter at 20hz I added about 6db to 20hz via EQ.

After making adjustments to its output via parametric EQ in the Behringer, I am getting a flat response from 20hz up to 100hz+. I am still playing with crossover settings; using 60hz at the moment.

Ultimately, while ported may be more efficient and louder, is it really a benefit if you never play it to its full potential?

In my case, this little sub rattles the windows and various pieces of furniture.

My room is L shaped and roughly 444sq ft. with no doors between it and the dest of the house.

I really have no need for the range between 20-30hz but if I can have it, why not?

The attached curves are the before and after response measured outside with the sub 6' above ground.




I may build a stereo pair of 8" or 10" subs in the future. I am not displeased with the results, but from what I understand stereo subs are better than single.
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post #21 of 37 Old 08-28-2018, 04:17 PM
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80hz hpf
An 80Hz HPF on a box tuned to ~24Hz?
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post #22 of 37 Old 08-28-2018, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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An 80Hz HPF on a box tuned to ~24Hz?
THis is the info I got for the amp..


Amplifier Specs:

STA-400D Sledge with 400 watts RMS continuous power (800 watts peak dynamic power)
High efficiency cool-running Class D switching topology
Detachable power cord with main power switch and fuse
RoHS compliant, lead-free construction and world-wide safety certifications
Auto-On / On switch with "green" standby mode
Stereo line-level RCA input/output connections
Fully adjustable low pass filter with Disable setting
Unfiltered (for daisy-chain) and 80 Hz HPF line level RCA outputs
Customized EQ and DSP limiter settings specifically for the SB12-NSD
Input impedance - 20 kΩ (unbalanced RCA)

All it says is hpf for line level outputs. I’ve never heard of worrying about hpf on a subwoofer amplifier before only lpf
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post #23 of 37 Old 08-28-2018, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
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THis is the info I got for the amp..


Amplifier Specs:

STA-400D Sledge with 400 watts RMS continuous power (800 watts peak dynamic power)
High efficiency cool-running Class D switching topology
Detachable power cord with main power switch and fuse
RoHS compliant, lead-free construction and world-wide safety certifications
Auto-On / On switch with "green" standby mode
Stereo line-level RCA input/output connections
Fully adjustable low pass filter with Disable setting
Unfiltered (for daisy-chain) and 80 Hz HPF line level RCA outputs
Customized EQ and DSP limiter settings specifically for the SB12-NSD
Input impedance - 20 kΩ (unbalanced RCA)

All it says is hpf for line level outputs. I’ve never heard of worrying about hpf on a subwoofer amplifier before only lpf
The HPF mentioned is for the outputs to daisy-chained subwoofers (or speakers maybe? Not likely). Spectre55 was asking about the HPF applied to the connections to your HF 12 on the high side. Should be (if it exists at all, and it likely does) around 20 - 22Hz based on the ~24Hz tuning. You don't want to rip your HF apart trying to drive it lower than it will go.

ETA: Oops, forgot they offered amps with DSP built in, and if I missed that earlier apologies for any confusion.

Last edited by smcmillan2; 08-28-2018 at 05:12 PM.
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post #24 of 37 Old 08-28-2018, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
The HPF mentioned is for the outputs to daisy-chained subwoofers (or speakers maybe? Not likely). Spectre55 was asking about the HPF applied to the connections to your HF 12 on the high side. Should be (if it exists at all, and it likely does) around 20 - 22Hz based on the ~24Hz tuning. You don't want to rip your HF apart trying to drive it lower than it will go.

ETA: Oops, forgot they offered amps with DSP built in, and if I missed that earlier apologies for any confusion.
Again not too sure. The low pass goes down to 30hz or bypass. I would have to bypass it, I doubt I’ll be listening to anything that’s lower then 24hz. Most goes to 28
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
The HPF mentioned is for the outputs to daisy-chained subwoofers (or speakers maybe? Not likely). Spectre55 was asking about the HPF applied to the connections to your HF 12 on the high side. Should be (if it exists at all, and it likely does) around 20 - 22Hz based on the ~24Hz tuning. You don't want to rip your HF apart trying to drive it lower than it will go.

ETA: Oops, forgot they offered amps with DSP built in, and if I missed that earlier apologies for any confusion.
Again not too sure. The low pass goes down to 30hz or bypass. I would have to bypass it, I doubt I’ll be listening to anything that’s lower then 24hz. Most goes to 28
In simple terms, A high pass filter filters everything below that number. Not completely, but a lot of it. So If you have a 20 Hz tuned sub, you want a HPF in place to ensure that it doesn’t destroy itself trying to play lower than that. Drivers lose control below the tuning point of a ported or PR box. With sealed it doesn’t matter.

As suggested, your sub amp probably has a HPF around 25 ish Hz. So you should be fine. But again, it’s always good to know so that you don’t spend all that time and effort building a box and then just destroying your sub when you use it.
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post #26 of 37 Old 08-29-2018, 02:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre55 View Post
In simple terms, A high pass filter filters everything below that number. Not completely, but a lot of it. So If you have a 20 Hz tuned sub, you want a HPF in place to ensure that it doesn’t destroy itself trying to play lower than that. Drivers lose control below the tuning point of a ported or PR box. With sealed it doesn’t matter.

As suggested, your sub amp probably has a HPF around 25 ish Hz. So you should be fine. But again, it’s always good to know so that you don’t spend all that time and effort building a box and then just destroying your sub when you use it.
From what I remember the svs pb12 nsd plays down to 20hz and this is the amp from it.
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post #27 of 37 Old 08-29-2018, 12:19 PM
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From what I remember the svs pb12 nsd plays down to 20hz and this is the amp from it.
Cool, then you should be fine with a 20-25ish Hz tune for your sub.

Start building!! And post pics!!
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post #28 of 37 Old 08-29-2018, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool, then you should be fine with a 20-25ish Hz tune for your sub.

Start building!! And post pics!!
Sub was delivered today! So hopefully building the box holiday Monday then have it running Tuesday!
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post #29 of 37 Old 08-29-2018, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre55 View Post
In simple terms, A high pass filter filters everything below that number. Not completely, but a lot of it. So If you have a 20 Hz tuned sub, you want a HPF in place to ensure that it doesn’t destroy itself trying to play lower than that. Drivers lose control below the tuning point of a ported or PR box. With sealed it doesn’t matter.

As suggested, your sub amp probably has a HPF around 25 ish Hz. So you should be fine. But again, it’s always good to know so that you don’t spend all that time and effort building a box and then just destroying your sub when you use it.
But do verify the HPF to the driver. It is likely to be in the range that will work for your build, but not guaranteed.
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post #30 of 37 Old 09-05-2018, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Well got the box built and tested it out, hits very low, shakes a lot In the house but I feel like it’s
Missing some punch. I also think I need a mini dsp for it. But with my left over wood I think I may build a sealed box just to see if I enjoy that better
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