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post #1 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Table saw dust port

I don't have a dust collector nor a shop vac, can I put a trash bag around the port and seal it with duct tape? Has anyone done this? I'm tired of the saw dust! Clean up is a whole another job!

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post #2 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 05:06 PM
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it beats a kick in the shin, but it isn't ideal. depending how the bag is attached and the kind of flow, it can actually help cause more dust up from the table. a shop vac can help heaps, and plenty of designs out there for DIY cyclone collection systems to keep the filters alive.
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post #3 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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That's what I was afraid of. The dust kicking back up top. I think I might just have to swing by Harbor Freight for one of their dust collectors. Thanks.

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post #4 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 05:23 PM
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its not a bad piece of kit that HF dust collector, for the cost. the diy chip collectors are worth looking into as well, takes a lot of strain off any collection system and really do take up next to no space. a lot of them stack the dust collector on top.
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post #5 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 06:06 PM
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There is no airflow out the port on a typical table saw. It needs to be sucked out of the port via a dust collector or at least a shop vac. I’d suggest spending the $100 on a HD shop vac if not ponying up for a HF collector.
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post #6 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 06:15 PM
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This is why I cut outside in my driveway under a pop up tent. Leaf blower takes care of the cleanup.
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post #7 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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This is why I cut outside in my driveway under a pop up tent. Leaf blower takes care of the cleanup.
That's what I was thinking about doing for the next build.

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post #8 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 06:32 PM
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That's what I was thinking about doing for the next build.

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I have all makita cordless equipment and dewalt table and miter saw. But my best tool is the makita blower, makes everything just easier. Blow off equipment, surrounding areas, and pieces of project.

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post #9 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 06:42 PM
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I use a shop vac on the exhaust port of my table saw. There are a couple disadvantages. First, there is no way it collects all the dust-you will still have a lot of cleanup yo do. Secondly, the filter on a shop vac plugs up pretty quickly reducing the vacuum and efficiency-especially if you ever cut MDF. I recently moved to a new house and put my workshop in the garage instead of the basement. When possible, I will cut outside.
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post #10 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by golfster View Post
I use a shop vac on the exhaust port of my table saw. There are a couple disadvantages. First, there is no way it collects all the dust-you will still have a lot of cleanup yo do. Secondly, the filter on a shop vac plugs up pretty quickly reducing the vacuum and efficiency-especially if you ever cut MDF. I recently moved to a new house and put my workshop in the garage instead of the basement. When possible, I will cut outside.
I use these bags in my shop vac for everything.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Shop-Vac-2-...on-Bag/1083199

I have also used it for a few cuts on the miter saw in the garage when raining. Plus used it for sanding drywall too. No mess to clean up.
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post #11 of 32 Old 08-28-2018, 07:37 PM
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If you are working inside, its the fine particles that are going to kill you, even though its the big chucks that seem like the PITA to clean up.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyc...ical_risks.cfm
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post #12 of 32 Old 08-29-2018, 07:46 AM
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Grab an Oneida DIY Dust Deputy Cyclone and then buy a shop vac off craigslist. FYI there's a dozen shop vacs near me selling for $15 to $30 on CL. Remove the shop vac filter and then vent it outside. That will keep your area "clean" for low cost.

But I agree with @jjackkrash . The HF machine, as well as the Delta, Jet, Grizzly, Powermatic, etc., are all glorified chip collectors and do nothing for fine dust. Unless you're willing to buy a serious system and upgrade the dust ports on your machines you're only keeping your work area free of wood chips. So save your money and go with the shop vac/cyclone solution.
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post #13 of 32 Old 08-29-2018, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post
Remove the shop vac filter and then vent it outside. That will keep your area "clean" for low cost.
Separating the chips and venting the dust outside is a great way to go. I am working on getting my stuff on rollers and then rolling outside under a carport to work. The fines are just tough to deal with inside.
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post #14 of 32 Old 08-29-2018, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post
Grab an Oneida DIY Dust Deputy Cyclone and then buy a shop vac off craigslist. FYI there's a dozen shop vacs near me selling for $15 to $30 on CL. Remove the shop vac filter and then vent it outside. That will keep your area "clean" for low cost.
Home Depot has one that fits on their orange 5 gallon bucket. I picked up a Chinese Oneida knock-off based on reviews on YouTube. It's been too hot to use it this summer. But I will pair it with a new $40 (it was on sale) Shop-Vac I picked up from Lowes https://www.lowes.com/pd/Shop-Vac-12...iABEgKUk_D_BwE


Chinese Dust Cyclone
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post #15 of 32 Old 08-29-2018, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info guys. The shop vac + cyclone looks like a cheap and simple solution. How does it compare to the $200 HF or Shop Fox unit on Amazon? Looks like Oneida has a cyclone setup for about $100 on Amazon (no shop vac). The HF unit claims 5 microns @$199, the Shop Fox W1826 claims 2.5 microns @ $216. How's the cyclone solution compared to those two units? If I'm only saving about $100 going with the cyclone setup, unless it is 2 or 3 times more efficient than the HF or Shop Fox, why not just drop another $100 and go for the "better" unit? Someone explain. Thanks.

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post #16 of 32 Old 08-29-2018, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post
Grab an Oneida DIY Dust Deputy Cyclone and then buy a shop vac off craigslist. FYI there's a dozen shop vacs near me selling for $15 to $30 on CL. Remove the shop vac filter and then vent it outside. That will keep your area "clean" for low cost.

But I agree with @jjackkrash . The HF machine, as well as the Delta, Jet, Grizzly, Powermatic, etc., are all glorified chip collectors and do nothing for fine dust. Unless you're willing to buy a serious system and upgrade the dust ports on your machines you're only keeping your work area free of wood chips. So save your money and go with the shop vac/cyclone solution.

This at least. Great little cyclone, not perfect but rocked for my basement drywall project. Keeps filter from clogging and the air clean. I used a filter and a bag in the vac for double insurance, worked out well.


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post #17 of 32 Old 08-30-2018, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisgsx View Post
Thanks for the info guys. The shop vac + cyclone looks like a cheap and simple solution. How does it compare to the $200 HF or Shop Fox unit on Amazon? Looks like Oneida has a cyclone setup for about $100 on Amazon (no shop vac). The HF unit claims 5 microns @$199, the Shop Fox W1826 claims 2.5 microns @ $216. How's the cyclone solution compared to those two units? If I'm only saving about $100 going with the cyclone setup, unless it is 2 or 3 times more efficient than the HF or Shop Fox, why not just drop another $100 and go for the "better" unit? Someone explain. Thanks.

Dust means different things to different people. In my experience there's basically three sizes of particulate discharged from your wood working tool: large chips, fine dust, and super fine invisible dust. The last being most harmful and most difficult to collect.

In the case of a table saw with a four inch port, the mini cyclone + shop vac will collect the large chips and some fine dust. You'll still have a fair amount of fine dust landing on stuff and almost all the super fine dust getting into the air. Using the HF or equivalent dust collector will improve the fine dust collection but will still leave most of the super fine dust in the air. Less mess to clean up than the shop vac. You can improve the performance of the dust collector by converting it into a two stage collector by building a Thien Cyclone Separator and venting to the outside. That 5 micron bag is probably not really 5 microns anyway. You can then upgrade the dust port on your table saw to 5” and add a 4” port above the table top. Switching your flex hose to smooth wall will also help. At this point you're getting virtually no fine dust or chips to clean up. Unfortunately the air is still filling up with the super fine dust that you can't see but your shop looks clean! All this is based on my experience, observations and testing with my air quality monitor. For some, this is OK. If you're concerned about the super fine dust and a dust collection system designed for super fine dust, such as from Clear Vue or Oneida, is not in the cards I suggest building/buying a filter fan to supplement whatever you use. Jay Bates built one using a large furnace blower and some hepa filters from amazon and I bet it's eight times as effective as one you could buy.
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Last edited by Boxozaxu; 08-30-2018 at 10:19 AM.
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post #18 of 32 Old 09-01-2018, 11:22 AM
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One thing is for sure, any kind of setup should have a cyclone to save the filters.

Note that the small cyclones meant for shop vacs are too restrictive to use with the high CFM, low suction dust collectors.

Klutzy, but you could run multiple small cyclones in parallel; probably should allow about 100 cfm per cyclone.

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post #19 of 32 Old 09-04-2018, 05:18 AM
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it's amost impossible to get the very unhealthy dust particles out of the air in a home shop without spending a lot of money. The issue is that the really bad stuff is so small that it goes right through typical filters. If it's an option, go with bluer101's suggestion. Use a saw on wheels that you can take outside.

As a second choice you can connect a leaf blower to the dust port and just have it blow the dust out an open door. Put a 1/2" mesh screen ahead of the leaf blower inlet to stop big chunks of wood from hurting the leaf blower impeller.
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post #20 of 32 Old 09-04-2018, 05:51 PM
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it's amost impossible to get the very unhealthy dust particles out of the air in a home shop without spending a lot of money.

Do HEPA filters not get those out?

You can get a Cleanstream washable HEPA filter for $35-ish.

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post #21 of 32 Old 09-04-2018, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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So after reading all of the replies, I've come to the conclusion that unless you spend big $$$ on shop quality dust collectors, any other method would be a waste of money, and the "safest" is to do all the work outside, with good natural wind and breeze along with a good respirator. I think I'll stick to that.
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post #22 of 32 Old 09-05-2018, 06:53 AM
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Do HEPA filters not get those out?

You can get a Cleanstream washable HEPA filter for $35-ish.
I have used those, they dont work very well, and they clog up very quicly, a matter of minutes. You need much more filter area and multiple stages to cope with the dust generated by a table saw.

You can get the volume of air and filter area using furnace fans and stacks of progressively finer air filters. The system shown in the pict can collect the bigger stuff and send air to a real HEPA filter with the required area to cope with the CFM airflow needed to control table saw dust.

I use a Dylos air particle counter to test air quality. The above statements are based on actual measurements.
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post #23 of 32 Old 09-05-2018, 11:37 AM
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I have used those, they dont work very well, and they clog up very quicly, a matter of minutes.

That's why you need a cyclone.

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post #24 of 32 Old 09-05-2018, 07:22 PM
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Wynn Environmental sells canister filters to replace the good for nothing filter bag. Quite a popular upgrade for the HF dust collector. I was going to do this but the 35BA222NANO costs a couple hundred dollars and the collector itself doesn't suck hard enough to get all that super fine dust to the collector. I do think the canister is worth it if supplemented with the furnace fan + hepa filter box. I'll probably build one too even though I already have a Clear Vue Cyclone.
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Do HEPA filters not get those out?

You can get a Cleanstream washable HEPA filter for $35-ish.

I run a 16 gallon shop vac with one of those plus a fine filter bag. Does a good job. I have to bang the hepa filter on a rock or something hard after filling up two or three bags to get the suction back.
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post #26 of 32 Old 09-06-2018, 06:26 PM
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I run a 16 gallon shop vac with one of those plus a fine filter bag. Does a good job. I have to bang the hepa filter on a rock or something hard after filling up two or three bags to get the suction back.

That's why you need a cyclone

Noah
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post #27 of 32 Old 09-07-2018, 02:34 AM
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... I'll probably build one too even though I already have a Clear Vue Cyclone.
My Clear Vue Cyclone is sitting unused outside behind my shop. It is the one they make to put ahead of a shop vac. That was my original upgraded system, a Clear Vue cyclone going to a big shop vac with Clean Stream HEPA filter. Even with fresh filter this system did not have enough cfm to control table saw dust. That's $250+ for an inadequate system.

The furnace fan and multi filters worked but was bulky. ~$150 if you scrounge the fan from a discarded furnace.

A shroud with a box fan did not pull air strongly enough. (plenty of volume but inadequate suction) This is not a solution.

The cheapest and best controlled dust manager was a leaf blower and cardboard/plywood/duct tape shroud that strongly pulled air down through the slot where the blade is. Just let the dust fly out the door onto the driveway/yard. This is the $75 solution.
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post #28 of 32 Old 09-07-2018, 08:10 AM
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I have a 5HP Oneida cyclone & it does a very good job at containing the dust
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post #29 of 32 Old 09-07-2018, 08:33 AM
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I use the 2HP motor from a Grizzly G0548ZP and an Oneida Super Dust Deputy XL with an external exhaust and 6" ductwork around the shop. I also have a Jet air cleaner mounted right above my table saw. I still use a respirator when making a mess with MDF, but no dust settles in my shop after a day of cutting MDF out there.
It's expensive getting dust collection set up for real, but once it's done, it makes using the shop a real joy knowing that you can just put in the hours on the project at hand without having to put in the hours to clean everything up afterwards.
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post #30 of 32 Old 09-07-2018, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsci2 View Post
My Clear Vue Cyclone is sitting unused outside behind my shop. It is the one they make to put ahead of a shop vac. That was my original upgraded system, a Clear Vue cyclone going to a big shop vac with Clean Stream HEPA filter. Even with fresh filter this system did not have enough cfm to control table saw dust. That's $250+ for an inadequate system.

The furnace fan and multi filters worked but was bulky. ~$150 if you scrounge the fan from a discarded furnace.

A shroud with a box fan did not pull air strongly enough. (plenty of volume but inadequate suction) This is not a solution.

The cheapest and best controlled dust manager was a leaf blower and cardboard/plywood/duct tape shroud that strongly pulled air down through the slot where the blade is. Just let the dust fly out the door onto the driveway/yard. This is the $75 solution.

I meant to say I want the mini cyclone for the shop vac for use during general cleanup and with sanders but not for a table saw. I bought the Clear Vue CV1800 for the shop. It's tough to hook up proper dust collection to some machines like the drill press and bandsaw so I still want the furnace fan setup you have. I've been looking around but no luck finding a blower. I'm tired of hunting so I'm about to buy a new one from Grainger.
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