Titan or HTM-12 ? Building home theater soon. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Titan or HTM-12 ? Building home theater soon.

Hi all,
I am thinking about turning part of my basement into a home theater. The dimension of the HT room will be 27 x 12 x 7.5 which is close to 2500 cu ft.
Initially I was thinking about HTM-12 as LCR, Now after reading few forums here I am thinking about Titan 615XL. Both are out to stock now anyway.
I will be building a partial baffle wall, meaning there wont be a front baffle, but I will fill the entire front wall with rockwool and 703s , 2 feet into the room. (or do I really need a front baffle ? I think that is unnecessary, please correct me if I am missing anything)
I will be building 4 ultimax sealed subs, 2 of them will go in the front baffle wall.

Question: I gather from other discussions that HTMs will be enough to generate lot of SPL in the room and both HTM and Titan will have a lot of headroom, I will never be using titans full power. Other than SPL, is there any significant difference in sound quality between these models ? clarity, dynamics, Imaging, sound stage, midbass advantage etc ?
Is there any disadvantage of using Titans in relatively small ht room 2500 cu ft ?

Thanks
Manu
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post #2 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 08:17 AM
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If I had the budget, I’d go for the titans. I’ve had Cinema 10 max, and 1099’s for a while. And I’ve heard the htm 12’s. You can’t go wrong picking up the biggest and best speaker you can afford/fit. This is of course, my opinion. As I also think you’ll be very happy with the htm-12’s.
Also, if saving the money on not getting the titans gets you more subs, then by all means please do!
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post #3 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 09:26 AM
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What are you driving them with? If you are just going with receiver power then there would be no reason for the Titan's IMO, I feel like they really come alive when you start feeding those beastly woofers a lot of power. As Jk said, depends on if you have the money to throw around.
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post #4 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylon View Post
What are you driving them with? If you are just going with receiver power then there would be no reason for the Titan's IMO, I feel like they really come alive when you start feeding those beastly woofers a lot of power. As Jk said, depends on if you have the money to throw around.
140W / Channel Denon.

Why would Titan needs more power ? I thought Titans need less power.
HTM-12 Sensitivity: 97db
Titan Sensitivity: 99db
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post #5 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
If I had the budget, I’d go for the titans. I’ve had Cinema 10 max, and 1099’s for a while. And I’ve heard the htm 12’s. You can’t go wrong picking up the biggest and best speaker you can afford/fit. This is of course, my opinion. As I also think you’ll be very happy with the htm-12’s.
Also, if saving the money on not getting the titans gets you more subs, then by all means please do!
I will add that I prefer a three way over two way
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post #6 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by gixerking View Post
I will add that I prefer a three way over two way


Agreed.
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post #7 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vazhipokkan View Post
140W / Channel Denon.

Why would Titan needs more power ? I thought Titans need less power.
HTM-12 Sensitivity: 97db
Titan Sensitivity: 99db
Either one is going to get deafeningly loud with that receiver. But with that wattage you aren't going to be bringing out the capability of the Titans. They can eat 2000watts of power and produce crazy midbass, but they aren't going to do that with the Denon powering them.
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post #8 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 10:49 AM
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I have the Titans and I love them. There driven by a NAD 777v3 which is rated at 7 x 80W all channels driven and they play plenty loud and fill the room (which is about the same size as yours) with great sound and mid-bass. I have a set of HTM-12's for another smaller room but it will be about two weeks before there done so right now I can't compare the two.

9.2.6 - Using - Marantz AV8805, Titan 630lx's-LCR "Dual 15's", HTM-12's-Surrounds, Volt10's-Atmos
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post #9 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylon View Post
Either one is going to get deafeningly loud with that receiver. But with that wattage you aren't going to be bringing out the capability of the Titans. They can eat 2000watts of power and produce crazy midbass, but they aren't going to do that with the Denon powering them.
Thank you.. I never thought about using external amp to power DIY speakers which are high sensitive. An external amp may be useful in high dynamic volume situations, I guess.
Assuming Titans will be crossing over at 80 or 60 Hz with four sealed Ultimax subs, first row seats will be 12 feet from screen, Still need an external amp ?

Thanks
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post #10 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 01:11 PM
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It all depends on your listening habits. If you like to crank it to reference level and play lots of demo stuff then an external amp would be recommended. If your normal listening volume is modest, -10 to -20 on the AVR, then you are probably fine.
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post #11 of 30 Old 09-21-2018, 11:05 PM
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post #12 of 30 Old 09-22-2018, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vazhipokkan View Post
Hi all,

Question: I gather from other discussions that HTMs will be enough to generate lot of SPL in the room and both HTM and Titan will have a lot of headroom, I will never be using titans full power. Other than SPL, is there any significant difference in sound quality between these models ? clarity, dynamics, Imaging, sound stage, midbass advantage etc ?
Is there any disadvantage of using Titans in relatively small ht room 2500 cu ft ?

Thanks
Manu
Even at lower volumes the designer of the 615LX has mentioned that the Celestion compression driver he's using sounds better than his other designs.

If you have the physical space and funds don't hesitate.

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post #13 of 30 Old 09-22-2018, 08:00 AM
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Having owned the HTM-12's and hearing the Titan LX's many times in different setups, The Titan LX's are clearly the better speaker if you can fit them. That doesn't mean the HTM-12 is not an awesome speaker, because it is, but we are talking apples to oranges here and the Titans are on another level. That compression driver and the midrange on the Titan make the difference.
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post #14 of 30 Old 09-22-2018, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
Having owned the HTM-12's and hearing the Titan LX's many times in different setups, The Titan LX's are clearly the better speaker if you can fit them. That doesn't mean the HTM-12 is not an awesome speaker, because it is, but we are talking apples to oranges here and the Titans are on another level. That compression driver and the midrange on the Titan make the difference.
Thanks guys.
The front wall is 12 feet wide where screen goes. Screen diagonal length will be at least 120 inches. So I believe three titans will easily go behind it. baffle wall will be 2 feet deep to include sealed subs on floor. I can go with 15.5" deep flat pack instead of wide flat pack.
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post #15 of 30 Old 09-22-2018, 03:37 PM
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If you're building a 2-foot deep baffle wall, I'd use the space behind it as a giant subwoofer enclosure... an IB or LLT alignment.
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post #16 of 30 Old 09-23-2018, 02:57 AM
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I'd build the titans, I have HTM12s in my 16x8ft room which is way overkill for anyone, but when conversing with Erich if you can afford it just go with the biggest and baddest you can physically fit in, better more than less. You could build the UM18s into LLT enclosures, and cross over at 50 or 60hz and allow the titans to bring back some midbass slam which the UM18s may lack. You will need an external amp to get the 15s in the titans moving well though, full range my A3050 Yamaha amp won't drive my HTM12s to full excursion on most music! Good luck!

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post #17 of 30 Old 09-23-2018, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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What amps do you recommend to drive Titan LCR ?
Emotiva has three channel amp. Crown does not have 3 channel, I will have to buy two 2-channel amps for three channels.
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post #18 of 30 Old 09-24-2018, 03:36 PM
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Omg

Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Titan 615 for the win! Or the dual Titan version like I did and Jarrod.
Newish on this forum but my god that is grotesque.... in a good way of course haha. I use to live in Indiana but trying to find anyone with Titans, Maximus 12 or Fusion 15 in San Diego/LA. Do you guys know anyone?
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post #19 of 30 Old 09-24-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kishibashi View Post
Newish on this forum but my god that is grotesque.... in a good way of course haha. I use to live in Indiana but trying to find anyone with Titans, Maximus 12 or Fusion 15 in San Diego/LA. Do you guys know anyone?


Thanks the towers make my 4-21” subs look like a normal size driver.
As for the HTM-12’s or something else My buddy who has the 1099’s lives in San Diego that’s still on this forum Rolf M he taught the rew class many years ago at my gtg. I can see if he wants to show them off? Besides that I really don’t know anyone in that area. I think his user name is @spotts29 it’s been a little while I’ll look up his avs name
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post #20 of 30 Old 09-24-2018, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Thanks the towers make my 4-21” subs look like a normal size driver.
As for the HTM-12’s or something else My buddy who has the 1099’s lives in San Diego that’s still on this forum Rolf M he taught the rew class many years ago at my gtg. I can see if he wants to show them off? Besides that I really don’t know anyone in that area. I think his user name is @spotts29 it’s been a little while I’ll look up his avs name
Hey hey Mike, thanks for the shout out. Looks like you had another kickass gtg this time around. The 1099's are in storage, but I could get them out to show them off. Actually thinking about listing them since I moved into a house smaller than your theater
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post #21 of 30 Old 09-25-2018, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Titan 615 for the win! Or the dual Titan version like I did and Jarrod.
Good looking setup there!
I just came to know there is a Titan 612lx version. The flatpack is not available now. Have you heard both 615LX and dual version ? how different they sound ?
Btw, what subwoofer are those ? are they sealed ? do we get flatpack for those ?
Thanks
Manu
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post #22 of 30 Old 09-25-2018, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vazhipokkan View Post
Good looking setup there!

I just came to know there is a Titan 612lx version. The flatpack is not available now. Have you heard both 615LX and dual version ? how different they sound ?

Btw, what subwoofer are those ? are they sealed ? do we get flatpack for those ?

Thanks

Manu


Thanks, there’s no flat pack for the Titan 612 mtg90 the designer of the Titan built a prototype for my gtg meet last year so everyone could hear what that would sound like a modular design. The sound was awesome in person it had a lot more lower end having two 12’s vs a single 15” driver. The upper end is the same above 350hz were the mid section takes over. Don’t get me wrong the Titan kit with the single 15” driver sounds great but adding a second just makes it that much better. The subs I have are B&C 21” DS115-4 drivers in 15.5 cubic ft side slot ported boxes tuned at 14hz. There’s no flat pack for those you have to build them your self.
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post #23 of 30 Old 09-26-2018, 10:26 AM
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I've enjoyed listening to eng-399's amazing Titans; he also feeds each one with an iNuke3k. The sound is enormous, spectacular, and breathtaking.

I have the HTM-12s as my mains; I don't plan on upgrading them ever. They are getting about 400w each. They are deceptively smooth and clear, meaning it's so easy to turn up the volume without feeling listening fatigue. That can be dangerous.

But here's some other noteworthy points.
-His theater is nearly 3 times the size of mine; I'm sitting less than 6 feet from the HTMs
-My HTMs can deliver fantastic midbass, especially with some power behind them
-Titans, with enough power behind them, can easily satisfy bass needs for normal people. Realize of course this forum is far from normal.
-Titans are physically gigantic; HTMs are designed for a small, shallow footprint. They are also quite light.

Bottom line? With your size theater I'd highly recommend the Titans. But I doubt you'd be unhappy with HTMs.
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post #24 of 30 Old 09-26-2018, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kishibashi View Post
Newish on this forum but my god that is grotesque.
And pure folly except for the fun of being grotesque and the subjective pursuit of incredible spl far beyond Reference. Not that it is not designed, installed, and calibrated to be smooth, but smooth reference level could be done in that small room, and quite a larger room, with a scale of hardware much smaller. It looks cool...but weird if you're into or have any training/experience in the science of this stuff.

But who said AV folly is not fun! Not me.
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post #25 of 30 Old 09-26-2018, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCJetta View Post
I've enjoyed listening to eng-399's amazing Titans; he also feeds each one with an iNuke3k. The sound is enormous, spectacular, and breathtaking.

I have the HTM-12s as my mains; I don't plan on upgrading them ever. They are getting about 400w each. They are deceptively smooth and clear, meaning it's so easy to turn up the volume without feeling listening fatigue. That can be dangerous.

But here's some other noteworthy points.
-His theater is nearly 3 times the size of mine; I'm sitting less than 6 feet from the HTMs
-My HTMs can deliver fantastic midbass, especially with some power behind them
-Titans, with enough power behind them, can easily satisfy bass needs for normal people. Realize of course this forum is far from normal.
-Titans are physically gigantic; HTMs are designed for a small, shallow footprint. They are also quite light.

Bottom line? With your size theater I'd highly recommend the Titans. But I doubt you'd be unhappy with HTMs.

Thank you for this info. I am leaning towards Titans now.
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post #26 of 30 Old 10-22-2018, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
And pure folly except for the fun of being grotesque and the subjective pursuit of incredible spl far beyond Reference. Not that it is not designed, installed, and calibrated to be smooth, but smooth reference level could be done in that small room, and quite a larger room, with a scale of hardware much smaller. It looks cool...but weird if you're into or have any training/experience in the science of this stuff.

But who said AV folly is not fun! Not me.
Hi,
I am about to order LCR speakers for my new HT room.
Still did not make up my mind. I am looking at Titans, HTM-12 and 1099. they will go in a heavily treated front wall behind the screen.
I have a narrow/long room: 27 x 12 x 7.5

Any of these speakers perform better than other in this room ? should I choose a smaller or bigger waveguide ? would the wide dispersion a problem in narrow rooms ?
what treatment do you do at first reflection point (side walls) of L/R ? I am thinking of diffusion to make the room lively.
Need to buy the speakers next week and start building them now finish HT room before holidays.

Thanks
Manu
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post #27 of 30 Old 10-22-2018, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vazhipokkan View Post
Hi,
I am about to order LCR speakers for my new HT room.
Still did not make up my mind. I am looking at Titans, HTM-12 and 1099. they will go in a heavily treated front wall behind the screen.
I have a narrow/long room: 27 x 12 x 7.5

Any of these speakers perform better than other in this room ? should I choose a smaller or bigger waveguide ? would the wide dispersion a problem in narrow rooms ?
what treatment do you do at first reflection point (side walls) of L/R ? I am thinking of diffusion to make the room lively.
Need to buy the speakers next week and start building them now finish HT room before holidays.

Thanks
Manu
If you can comfortably fit and afford the Titan XL's, I'd get 'em. Main reason being the cd - it's a cut above what's in the HTM's (according to mtg90, designer of both speakers). Even if your room/seating distance doesn't require driving Titans to their fullest, the benefits of that cd will be apparent even at modest levels. That said- if you're cost or space constrained, there is no shortage of very, very happy HTM and 1099 owners out there.

As for your room treatment question, the general rule of thumb is that you would want to find first reflection points on the sidewalls (mirror trick is a good way to find those) and use absorption there. Most people use diffusion on the back wall. That being said- there are no hard and fast rules: experimentation and observation are key. Buy/build a few absorbers and diffusers, and try out different combinations in different spots.
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post #28 of 30 Old 10-22-2018, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vazhipokkan View Post
Hi,
I am about to order LCR speakers for my new HT room.
Still did not make up my mind. I am looking at Titans, HTM-12 and 1099. they will go in a heavily treated front wall behind the screen.
I have a narrow/long room: 27 x 12 x 7.5

Any of these speakers perform better than other in this room ? should I choose a smaller or bigger waveguide ? would the wide dispersion a problem in narrow rooms ?
what treatment do you do at first reflection point (side walls) of L/R ? I am thinking of diffusion to make the room lively.
Need to buy the speakers next week and start building them now finish HT room before holidays.

Thanks
Manu
Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
If you can comfortably fit and afford the Titan XL's, I'd get 'em. Main reason being the cd - it's a cut above what's in the HTM's (according to mtg90, designer of both speakers). Even if your room/seating distance doesn't require driving Titans to their fullest, the benefits of that cd will be apparent even at modest levels. That said- if you're cost or space constrained, there is no shortage of very, very happy HTM and 1099 owners out there.

As for your room treatment question, the general rule of thumb is that you would want to find first reflection points on the sidewalls (mirror trick is a good way to find those) and use absorption there. Most people use diffusion on the back wall. That being said- there are no hard and fast rules: experimentation and observation are key. Buy/build a few absorbers and diffusers, and try out different combinations in different spots.
Good advice from Strawberry. Don't rely on any of us to make your speaker decision for you. You need to do the best homework you can then make the best decision you can.
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post #29 of 30 Old 10-22-2018, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
If you can comfortably fit and afford the Titan XL's, I'd get 'em. Main reason being the cd - it's a cut above what's in the HTM's (according to mtg90, designer of both speakers). Even if your room/seating distance doesn't require driving Titans to their fullest, the benefits of that cd will be apparent even at modest levels. That said- if you're cost or space constrained, there is no shortage of very, very happy HTM and 1099 owners out there.

As for your room treatment question, the general rule of thumb is that you would want to find first reflection points on the sidewalls (mirror trick is a good way to find those) and use absorption there. Most people use diffusion on the back wall. That being said- there are no hard and fast rules: experimentation and observation are key. Buy/build a few absorbers and diffusers, and try out different combinations in different spots.
Thank you strawberry.
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post #30 of 30 Old 10-22-2018, 10:07 PM
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It begs the question...... 1899 vs the dual 15" Titan's.......
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