CS1214 / CX1200 Build on the cheap - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 09-24-2018, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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CS1214 / CX1200 Build on the cheap

EDIT 10/04/2018: See post #13 below for some minor design changes lowering net volume from 6.7 c.f. to ~6.1 c.f. and the rationale for same. Post #14 contains some pictures from construction and discussion about methods used.

Recently I started a thread looking for t/s parameters for a driver I had salvaged from an old Velodyne VRP-1200 along with the original plate amp. The enclosure had sustained some superficial water damage, which did not harm the driver or amp. My goal is to create an inexpensive sub for use in a second listening area of our house where we mostly listen to music at low or medium volume. There is no HT use in this space as there is no TV, and if I want to watch movies or listen at full volume, I can do so downstairs where I have a ~7CF cabinet with an RSS390HF-4 hooked up to an iNuke1000DSP.

A helpful soul in that thread suggested I might do better to look at buying a JBL CS1214 / CX1200 as a replacement, since parameters for that driver are available and the driver comes at no great expense.

After studying the JBL driver and thinking how best to use it with the other odds & ends I have on-hand, I've come up with a design for a large-ish slot-ported enclosure using the plate amp from the Velo (specs say 135w RMS). I'd appreciate if you guys would have a look at the attached photos and chip in with any thoughts or concerns that come to mind. I'm also still thinking about a few design considerations and would appreciate any input you might have regarding the following:











1. These dimensions mostly come from looking at where I can fit this into my listening area without seeking a long-form review from the wife. I can make it taller or shorter without much trouble (the height shown is based on the max possible to build this cabinet from one 4' x 8' sheet of 3/4 MDF), but width and depth are following adjacent furniture pieces. Do the design and model look sane? Am I missing anything big?

2. I'm showing this as a down-firing configuration. I realize that I could move the driver to either side or the front, but we have a dog, a two-year-old boy, and another baby on-the-way. You can understand why a hidden driver would be desirable in a family household. Are these drivers known to do well or poorly in this application? Can anyone comment on a reasonable height to elevate the cabinet above a short-pile carpet using spikes or feet? Would spikes or feet be better on a plywood-over-joist subfloor on the 2nd level of our open-concept home?

3. I'm showing a 2nd order high-pass Butterworth filter at 20hz which solves problems with both port air velocity below 21hz and with cone excursion below 18hz. I have an FMOD High-pass 20hz laying around. Do I understand correctly that putting it into the signal-path will provide the modeled 2nd order modification (they are advertised as 12db/octave)?

4. Further, regarding question above about using an FMOD - any chance that the plate amp from the Velo would have an SSF built-in? Would anyone here know for sure? Could I tell by looking at the circuit layout of the amp? Would it hurt anything to compound the attenuation by using the FMOD together on-top-of a SSF built-in with the amp?

5. This cabinet would replace a half-height bookcase on top of which my receiver currently rests. At the low SPL/power that I'm proposing, is it safe to assume that for mid to low volume level use for mostly music, that this cabinet would not be likely to shake that receiver to death? Again, given the low-power application, how much bracing do I need beyond the included shelf forming the slot-port?

I've ordered a driver and expect it to come later this week - I'm looking forward to getting the build started and promise that I'll share pictures of my progress. Thanks in advance for reading and for any input you can provide!
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-dan

Last edited by dewhite; 10-04-2018 at 01:41 PM.
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post #2 of 21 Old 09-24-2018, 04:29 PM
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As far as down firing you could put a spacer and then another piece of wood the dimension of the bottom of the cabinet.

- 6 x Boston Acoustic CR6 Frankencenter, Boston Acoustic CR8 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 x jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
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post #3 of 21 Old 09-24-2018, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
As far as down firing you could put a spacer and then another piece of wood the dimension of the bottom of the cabinet.
Thanks. Yes it had occurred to me that I could place a 13.5" x 13" x .75" plate of MDF into the bottom right corner of the box to allow further recessing of the driver if needed, which would also give a little more bracing at that point.

Still though - the opening of the cabinet for the driver will require some open space to the floor to avoid quasi-sealing and/or unacceptable air velocity, yes?

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post #4 of 21 Old 09-24-2018, 05:50 PM
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Do the design and model look sane? Am I missing anything big?

Just that it seems really big for a single 12". (6.7 cu. ft.). At half that size does it model much worse?
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post #5 of 21 Old 09-24-2018, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleNixon View Post
Do the design and model look sane? Am I missing anything big?

Just that it seems really big for a single 12". (6.7 cu. ft.). At half that size does it model much worse?

Im changing my design for my si 18 to 7.00 cu. ft granted its for music so yeah thats a lot for a 12.
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post #6 of 21 Old 09-25-2018, 04:36 AM
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I currently have a CS1214 in an ~3.5 cft internal down firing enclosure tuned to 20 hz. It is powered by a Dayton SA240 plate amp and I have been very happy with the results. I have ~2.5" of clearance for the driver as well. I use it for a mix of movies and music and it really gives an effortless depth to content and some enjoyable tactile feedback on movies due to a suspended floor plan. I have also had this driver in a VBSS 6.25 cft cab tuned to the same 20 hz and my Winisd modeling shows about 3-4 db increase around tuning going with the larger cabinet and a flatter response. In my experience, this driver works well in both cabs, but better in the larger enclosure.
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post #7 of 21 Old 09-25-2018, 06:22 AM
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Were you able to find a CS1214 for $30? I've been looking, but the cheapest I see is $43 from Walmart.
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post #8 of 21 Old 09-25-2018, 07:23 AM
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When you only need 1, 43 vs 30....is it really a big deal? 2 is still under 100$ lol, plus there isnt much else around the 40$ range that is a good proven deisgn. It does suck if you want 8 of them though.

This is what I meant with the plate. It just gives the driver a hard surface to fire into rather then carpet. Not sure how well it would work because the only application ive ever seen is a old onkyo HTIB subwoofer with a 8" driver. But if you are downfiring into carpet vs hardwood, it may be useful.
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post #9 of 21 Old 09-25-2018, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YumMasterYum View Post
Were you able to find a CS1214 for $30? I've been looking, but the cheapest I see is $43 from Walmart.
I actually skipped that $43 driver from a dubious seller on walmart.com and opted for a ~$49 option, fulfilled by Amazon via Prime, from a seller with better established feedback.

-dan

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post #10 of 21 Old 09-25-2018, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
When you only need 1, 43 vs 30....is it really a big deal? 2 is still under 100$ lol, plus there isnt much else around the 40$ range that is a good proven deisgn. It does suck if you want 8 of them though.

This is what I meant with the plate. It just gives the driver a hard surface to fire into rather then carpet. Not sure how well it would work because the only application ive ever seen is a old onkyo HTIB subwoofer with a 8" driver. But if you are downfiring into carpet vs hardwood, it may be useful.
Thanks for the visual - that makes a lot more sense. Definitely something to consider.

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post #11 of 21 Old 09-25-2018, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleNixon View Post
Do the design and model look sane? Am I missing anything big?

Just that it seems really big for a single 12". (6.7 cu. ft.). At half that size does it model much worse?
Dale - Thanks for the input. When I started modeling the driver in WinISD as a vented enclosure, it suggested 7.8CF as the ideal size, with a tuning at 20.49hz. I was so busy figuring out how big I could get away with in my space, I didn't even look at how small the driver would stand for. Just for fun, I've modeled the driver at 7.8, 6.7, 4.9, 3.1, & 2.4CF to get a better look at the trade-offs. As the enclosures get smaller, the tuning freq. had to rise in order to keep the port-length manageable. Have a look at the graph below to see how these options stack up, with my original 6.7CF design in green:



F3s for each size are as follows:

7.8 c.f. 19.78Hz
6.7 c.f. 20.62Hz
4.9 c.f. 25.39Hz
3.1 c.f. 26.82Hz
2.4 c.f. 28.79Hz

For my stated use (medium and low volume music), any of these designs should work well, but I do see a clear gap in the F3 and flattness of response when jumping from 4.9 c.f. up to 6.7 c.f. Since the dimensions work for my space, meet my aesthetic, and can be cut from one sheet of MDF, I don't mind the better response and F3 that come along with the increased size. Conversely, it appears that an additional 1.1CF of volume doesn't do much to flatten response or lower F3 in the "ideal" sized cabinet.
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post #12 of 21 Old 09-25-2018, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewhite View Post
For my stated use (medium and low volume music), any of these designs should work well, but I do see a clear gap in the F3 and flattness of response when jumping from 4.9 c.f. up to 6.7 c.f. Since the dimensions work for my space, meet my aesthetic, and can be cut from one sheet of MDF, I don't mind the better response and F3 that come along with the increased size. Conversely, it appears that an additional 1.1CF of volume doesn't do much to flatten response or lower F3 in the "ideal" sized cabinet.
6.7 c.f. does look to model much better than all of those smaller simulations. When I recommended going possibly smaller, in my mind I was imagining my own two 18"s in similar-sized boxes (JohnnySubs), but if you have the space I'd go for it.

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post #13 of 21 Old 10-04-2018, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Minor design changes and progress update:

While waiting for my driver to be delivered last week, I started thinking my way through all of the cuts to be made, and I came upon a limitation I hadn't thought much about: My Ridgid hybrid saw has a max right-rip capacity of 30" which would make accurately cutting the 28.5" x 32" front and back panels much more difficult (I'd have used a clamp-on straightedge and circular saw, but never would have gotten cuts that were as clean or precise).

After making some adjustments to my dimensions and calculating a new lower net volume around 6.1 c.f. which includes some additional deductions for simple bracing, I had a look at the effects in WinISD. Really not much difference, except that the tuning changed a little and the slot-length increased by a couple of inches. I'm attaching an updated sketch, volume calculation, and plots from WinISD - just in case some misguided soul wants to follow in these footsteps at a later date.

I'm about 75% complete with construction and will follow-up to this post with some pictures and info of what I've done so far...
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post #14 of 21 Old 10-04-2018, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Construction photos

Last Friday my driver arrived in good condition from Amazon, so I stopped into my local Lowe's and grabbed a sheet of MDF and some odds & ends to get started on my build.

Although I have access to a long-bed truck that would have let me bring the whole sheet of MDF home, I found it much more convenient to have them use a panel saw to cross-cut the sheet at 30.25" and 60.5" to make it easier to handle, haul, and further break-down the sheet into finished sizes. I'm attaching a cut-plan which accounts for those initial cuts and (importantly) blade-widths for each subsequent cut. I started with cutting the top, bottom, front, and back panels and then set-about the business of gluing and clamping pieces before cutting anything else (to make sure I got a near-perfect fit for each piece).

I find it helpful to try to cut any/all pieces that are supposed to end up the same width at one time so there's little/no variance across pieces (eg. make all the 28.5" cuts, then all the 15" cuts, then all the 30" cuts, etc). For the left/right pieces I cut them ~ 1/2" oversize on each dimension and glued them overlapping on all sides to allow for use of a flush-trimming router bit to make them a perfect fit to the other pieces. You might be wondering how I got the 31.5" (actually 32") cuts done with my saw? Shop-built crosscut sled from another project...

The rest of the work I've completed up to this point has been opening up the vent slot with a pattern-bit on the router and layout/cutting of openings for the driver and amp. Plenty of pictures that tell most of the story, but if anyone has a question or observation, I'm happy to explain what I'm doing or how I approached it. One pro-tip for anyone that's learning to use a router: double-sided woodworking tape is very helpful for attaching temporary scrap pieces to guide a pattern bit...

Still left to do:

* Deepen driver opening flange to allow for gasket thickness (doh).
* Apply a shallow 1/2" rabbet around amp opening to recess flange flush.
* Drill mounting holes for driver and amp fasteners.
* Decide on and install a solution for feet (spikes, legs, a bottom plate, etc).
* Drag into listening area to confirm proper function.
* Decide on a finishing method (maybe black paint, or paper-backed oak veneer if I'm really pleased with results).
* Place permanently in room and make final adjustments.
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post #15 of 21 Old 10-04-2018, 02:17 PM
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Looking great...btw if anyone missed the main $29 JBL thread they are again, for the moment, on sale for $29.99 at Best Buy.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jbl-cx-...?skuId=8480035

I picked up two more today.
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Looking great...btw if anyone missed the main $29 JBL thread they are again, for the moment, on sale for $29.99 at Best Buy.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jbl-cx-...?skuId=8480035

I picked up two more today.
Two more hmm what does he plan to do with those?
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Two more hmm what does he plan to do with those?

Not sure...have six now. Probably 2 in car and 4 for two-channel, but this is months or years down the line. No time/extra funds right now; that's why I live vicariously through threads like this for now.
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Not sure...have six now. Probably 2 in car and 4 for two-channel, but this is months or years down the line. No time/extra funds right now; that's why I live vicariously through threads like this for now.

I have 8 jbl of another series and 8 infinities and two 18's so I know where your coming from. (I live in a small apartment)
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post #19 of 21 Old 10-05-2018, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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that's why I live vicariously through threads like this for now.

Happy to oblige! I see that the price at BB is back up to $129 today. Crazy.

I got far enough through my to do list last night to mount the driver and amp. Hooked it up to the HTR in my garage through the 20Hz high-pass FMOD to have a listen and I am pleased with initial results.

Still need to attach feet and dress the cabinet up before I drag it upstairs to my listening area for fine-tuning. I have a set of Dayton DSS4-BC spikes coming early next week, and I called a local hardwood supplier who quoted a 4'x8' sheet of red oak veneer at $35. That pricing made the decision to move forward with veneer a no-brainer for me...

I'll report back with more pictures as I go along.
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post #20 of 21 Old 12-05-2019, 10:17 PM
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Happy to oblige! I see that the price at BB is back up to $129 today. Crazy.

I got far enough through my to do list last night to mount the driver and amp. Hooked it up to the HTR in my garage through the 20Hz high-pass FMOD to have a listen and I am pleased with initial results.

Still need to attach feet and dress the cabinet up before I drag it upstairs to my listening area for fine-tuning. I have a set of Dayton DSS4-BC spikes coming early next week, and I called a local hardwood supplier who quoted a 4'x8' sheet of red oak veneer at $35. That pricing made the decision to move forward with veneer a no-brainer for me...

I'll report back with more pictures as I go along.
Oh man, lets see if I can bring this one back. Can we get an update?

I just bought four of these for projects, and one of them is for my office for music only. I have a Dayton 250w plate amp on the way to power one of them to test out. This definitely is larger than I expected but still doable. Thanks for the great write up either way.
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post #21 of 21 Old 12-06-2019, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstarkatx View Post
Oh man, lets see if I can bring this one back. Can we get an update?

I just bought four of these for projects, and one of them is for my office for music only. I have a Dayton 250w plate amp on the way to power one of them to test out. This definitely is larger than I expected but still doable. Thanks for the great write up either way.
I've been very happy with this setup. I plugged this in, had a listen, and proceeded to do no fine-tuning or testing what-so-ever because I was satisfied with the quality and quantity of bass produced. Also, shortly after finishing this project, we had our 2nd son and I've been chasing both boys around our house since.

Good luck with your project and please let me know if there are any specific questions I can (try to) answer!
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-dan
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