Low Output Threads - Crown Amps - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 71 Old 10-22-2018, 04:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionxOrb View Post
it allows you to pump up the voltage high and send balanced which will help combat noise if you your sending signal 40ft through wire spaghetti.
FYI, Art Cleanbox Pro fixed the issue. SUB out on Denon > Cleanbox RCA in > balanced XLS out > Crown amp. Gain on Balanced out is at max.
Now I need to exchange the XLS 2002 for a 2502 to get the bass I really want


Got rid of the hum as well ...
dgkula is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 71 Old 10-22-2018, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tjcinnamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,494
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2169 Post(s)
Liked: 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgkula View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionxOrb View Post
it allows you to pump up the voltage high and send balanced which will help combat noise if you your sending signal 40ft through wire spaghetti.
FYI, Art Cleanbox Pro fixed the issue. SUB out on Denon > Cleanbox RCA in > balanced XLS out > Crown amp. Gain on Balanced out is at max.
Now I need to exchange the XLS 2002 for a 2502 to get the bass I really want [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]


Got rid of the hum as well ...
After all this time researching and I never even heard of the clean box before I had the issue. It appears it’s a near requirement to use a pro amp off an AVR.

My miniDSP HD comes on Wednesday so does an amp I can bridge to test this out. I may just use the amp to blend my mains with the MBMs. I’m not a huge fan of using an active crossover on my highly sensitive LR but I’ll look into it.

77" C9 + NAD 758 v3 with Dirac 7.6.4 + Rotel 976 + Panamax M5300-PM
Speakers: Paradigm Prestige 75F's + 55C; 8x Paradigm CI Pro P65-R's
Subs1: 2x LRK Build Thread + 2x Rotel 981 (bridged); retired: VRK Build thread
Subs2: 2x Rythmik LVX12; 2x Dayton HF 12's Ultra-NearField + Crown XLS 2002
MiniDSP HD & Non; DIY Room Treatments: Dutch Floral Prints
tjcinnamon is online now  
post #63 of 71 Old 10-22-2018, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tjcinnamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,494
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2169 Post(s)
Liked: 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgkula View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionxOrb View Post
it allows you to pump up the voltage high and send balanced which will help combat noise if you your sending signal 40ft through wire spaghetti.
FYI, Art Cleanbox Pro fixed the issue. SUB out on Denon > Cleanbox RCA in > balanced XLS out > Crown amp. Gain on Balanced out is at max.
Now I need to exchange the XLS 2002 for a 2502 to get the bass I really want [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]


Got rid of the hum as well ...
Are you running the amp at full gain? I read somewhere that’s how it’s meant to be run and the gain is actually not a gain but an attenuator

77" C9 + NAD 758 v3 with Dirac 7.6.4 + Rotel 976 + Panamax M5300-PM
Speakers: Paradigm Prestige 75F's + 55C; 8x Paradigm CI Pro P65-R's
Subs1: 2x LRK Build Thread + 2x Rotel 981 (bridged); retired: VRK Build thread
Subs2: 2x Rythmik LVX12; 2x Dayton HF 12's Ultra-NearField + Crown XLS 2002
MiniDSP HD & Non; DIY Room Treatments: Dutch Floral Prints
tjcinnamon is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 71 Old 10-22-2018, 05:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
rukus29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Manhattan/Long Island, NY
Posts: 794
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 287 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
After all this time researching and I never even heard of the clean box before I had the issue. It appears it’s a near requirement to use a pro amp off an AVR.

My miniDSP HD comes on Wednesday so does an amp I can bridge to test this out. I may just use the amp to blend my mains with the MBMs. I’m not a huge fan of using an active crossover on my highly sensitive LR but I’ll look into it
Interesting. I don’t think that’s true. I have same avr as you (NAD 758v3->minidspHD->inuke6k/crown xls 1502 bridged) and actually have to turn down the gain in my minidspHD to calibrate to 75db (both inuke and crown Knobs at about 75%). No need for a clean box at all as far as I can tell. Maybe it’s the fact that I’m running 3X18” (at the moment, one more coming), but my lights barely go beyond the first light even during heavy scenes. The crown hits the second light before the inuke does but that’s because my UXLs are attached to the inuke and the um18 attached to bridged crown 1502 - I imagine the uxls are just much more sensitive than the um18.

Would love to know if I’m missing something...

Edit: even running one of my 3 18”ers I had to turn down gain to get it to 75db.
Jedi940 likes this.

Last edited by rukus29; 10-22-2018 at 06:05 PM.
rukus29 is offline  
post #65 of 71 Old 10-22-2018, 06:27 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 11,407
Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4052 Post(s)
Liked: 4571
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
After all this time researching and I never even heard of the clean box before I had the issue. It appears it’s a near requirement to use a pro amp off an AVR.
You must have been living under a rock, I've know about the cleanbox for at least 7 years now...

My first Behringer DSP was bought way back in 2001.

Having to draw out frequency response charts by-hand using graphing paper, or Office 2000, because REW didn't exist... Fun times!

and there are old-timers on here that probably go back much further than I in the audio world without a doubt...
BassThatHz is online now  
post #66 of 71 Old 10-22-2018, 08:54 PM
Senior Member
 
CrusherW9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Liked: 132
I think the 2x4HD will sufficiently power your amp inputs. It has 2v outputs vs the .9v of the non-HD. It makes my iNUKE clip with the gain knobs turned down to about 3 'o clock.

"Becoming educated is more than just acquiring knowledge. It involves the ability to see the world in ways never before conceived."
CrusherW9 is offline  
post #67 of 71 Old 10-23-2018, 05:08 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrusherW9 View Post
I think the 2x4HD will sufficiently power your amp inputs. It has 2v outputs vs the .9v of the non-HD. It makes my iNUKE clip with the gain knobs turned down to about 3 'o clock.
I have the 2x4HD in the chain and still require the Cleanbox to get reasonable output.
dgkula is offline  
post #68 of 71 Old 10-23-2018, 05:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jedi940's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgkula View Post
I have the 2x4HD in the chain and still require the Cleanbox to get reasonable output.
Then there must be another issue somewhere in the signal chain. My experience lines up with @rukus29 . There is no need for a clean box with crown amps in my experience. Both my denon and marantz receivers have had no issue pushing crown amps. I'm even using the older version that doesn't have the .775 sensitivity setting. I had no issues with a Denon X4000 -> crown XLS1500 or with my current Marantz -> MiniDSP HD -> Crown X4000/inuke 6k. The Marantz actually puts out so much voltage, I had to increase the sensitivity in the mini AND decrease the sub level to not clip during EoT, WotW and other bass heavy scenes.
Jedi940 is offline  
post #69 of 71 Old 10-23-2018, 06:01 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jedi940's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Gain structure home theater - getting the most from pro audio equipment in your system
Download links for the files are in post 10. There is a link at the bottom of table of contents in the first post.

This whole forum post should be required reading for everyone. It's very well done. Pay particular attention to Part 7 and go through that process exactly. It makes it very easy to find out when your AVR starts clipping and what your pre-out voltage is. With the new crown amps and their .775 sensitivity setting, that means your AVR only has to put out .775 volts (Less than 1) in order to drive the amp to full power.

I can't remember if it was suggested in the article but I would argue that a complete factory reset on the AVR should be performed to make sure any adjustments that have been made up to this point while troubleshooting do not affect the results.
Jedi940 is offline  
post #70 of 71 Old 10-23-2018, 12:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
VisionxOrb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oceanside, Ca
Posts: 1,157
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 270
just so everyone is aware, the crown literature says that when in .775 mode instead of 1.4 the S/N is reduced by 6db.

2000 watts of power and climbing

-Fred
VisionxOrb is offline  
post #71 of 71 Old 10-23-2018, 12:32 PM
Senior Member
 
CrusherW9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Liked: 132
A balanced signal has a max amplitude that is 6db hotter than an unbalanced signal and so it makes sense that the unbalanced snr is simply the balanced snr -6db.

"Becoming educated is more than just acquiring knowledge. It involves the ability to see the world in ways never before conceived."
CrusherW9 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off