DIYSG 1099 TM/MWW pre-build ?s & build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 11Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 40 Old 11-08-2018, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
DIYSG 1099 TM/MWW pre-build ?s & build

Background: Got a new TV. Old AVR didn't have HDMI so bought a AVR (Denon AVR-X3400H) from A4L. Wow, I can stream music using my home network using airplay. Wow, Klipsch speakers that sound pretty good for HT don't sound so good for music. Looked at Emotiva T2/C2 combo along with ELAC then branched out to Tekton and other ID companies. Then looked at DIY and wanted to build Anthology towers with Statement II center. After a few email exchanges with Curt and Jim, decided they were great stereo speakers but had too many placement restrictions along with doubts whether my AVR would provide enough headroom to get the designed SQ. That brought me to DIYSG where I saw high efficiency speakers designed to work in "regular" rooms and my AVR would be sufficient. Build thread photos showed people not restricted by "normal" placement rules.

After multiple discussions with Erich and my wife, decided on the 1099 with horizontal center (since 893 no longer available and HTM center wouldn't work - WAF). WAF dictated the LR speakers needed to be TMMWW configuration to limit their height. Did I mention this is my first DIY speaker build? Not looking forward to cutting up a perfectly good baffle.

Found spotts29 build along with a couple of 893 builds that went with this configuration.

Pre-Build ?s
Planning to use laminate. Can I use my circular saw with a finishing blade to make the required cuts or should I get a laminate shear - https://www.amazon.com/MA72500-Klenk...70_&dpSrc=srch

I can see where using the circular saw could result in something going really wrong vs the shear being pretty safe in terms of getting a straight cut.

Planned steps for center speaker build:
Put the cabinet together minus baffle, reinforce woofer mounts on baffle, put foam in woofer areas, install crossover & wires, glue baffle on, prime surfaces I don't plan on covering with laminate, put laminate on - use j roller, wait overnight for contact cement, trim laminate using flush trim bit, cover laminate with tape then paint, install terminal posts & connect wires to crossover, stuff mid section with polyfil, connect & install drivers.

For the LR speakers, same process except for cutting the baffle (hope I don't have to order additional baffles), adding 1/2 to 1" above the waveguide for aesthetics and adding that same amount to sides and back and gluing the panels, making a plinth (learned that word on this forum).

Any suggestions or changes to the order appreciated.

Contact cement:
In CA, HD and Lowes sells DAP Weldwood low VOC water based contact cement (green label). There are some scary reviews...have you been successful using this product? Should I try to get an out of state seller to ship original (red label) to me?

Received boxes from DIYSG today and started putting crossovers together - bought the PCB. Watched the video Matt put together and picked up on technique he used. Didn't own a soldering iron until this project. Will try to work on center speaker first to get an idea of what putting a "standard" 1099 together is like before working on modifying one.
filtor1 likes this.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 40 Old 11-09-2018, 11:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
smcmillan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Farmington, MI, USA
Posts: 1,884
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 801 Post(s)
Liked: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDHacker View Post
Pre-Build ?s
Planning to use laminate. Can I use my circular saw with a finishing blade to make the required cuts or should I get a laminate shear - https://www.amazon.com/MA72500-Klenk...70_&dpSrc=srch

I can see where using the circular saw could result in something going really wrong vs the shear being pretty safe in terms of getting a straight cut.
I have seen the circular saw method work. Some of the older gentlemen I learned laminating/veneering from would put a finish blade in their saw backwards, so as to not chip up the laminate. Straight cuts are not a priority as you should be cutting it 1 - 1-1/2" larger than the surface to cover, so you can get away with some slop. If you have access to a table saw, that is what I use to cut my laminate/veneer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDHacker View Post
Contact cement:
In CA, HD and Lowes sells DAP Weldwood low VOC water based contact cement (green label). There are some scary reviews...have you been successful using this product? Should I try to get an out of state seller to ship original (red label) to me?
I've used the water-based Weldwood in the past. I much prefer the regular as it tacks up and holds much faster, but the water based is certainly usable. Plan to let it set up much longer than the regular though - At least 2 hours in low to mid humidity levels, double that for higher humidity.
SDHacker likes this.
smcmillan2 is offline  
post #3 of 40 Old 11-09-2018, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
I have seen the circular saw method work. Some of the older gentlemen I learned laminating/veneering from would put a finish blade in their saw backwards, so as to not chip up the laminate. Straight cuts are not a priority as you should be cutting it 1 - 1-1/2" larger than the surface to cover, so you can get away with some slop. If you have access to a table saw, that is what I use to cut my laminate/veneer.

Thanks. Unfortunately, my neighbor that was a cabinet maker retired and moved so lost access to something that had a reliable/accurate fence.

I've used the water-based Weldwood in the past. I much prefer the regular as it tacks up and holds much faster, but the water based is certainly usable. Plan to let it set up much longer than the regular though - At least 2 hours in low to mid humidity levels, double that for higher humidity.
OK, just ordered the regular stuff from out of state. One store indicated they couldn't ship to CA but another didn't list CA as excluded. How long do you wait before flush trimming? Do you wait 20 - 30 minutes for the regular glue to set up before putting the laminate on the surface? Use a J roller?

A lot of what I'm about to do, I've never done before so please excuse the newbie questions.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 40 Old 11-09-2018, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Finished the 3 crossovers. Since it's copyrighted, didn't want to show the component side without the copyright info in the photo. I attached the side where you solder, 1 before soldering and 1 after. The PCB makes soldering this easy even for a neophyte. The solder seems to want to stay where the metal is and there is enough spacing so sloppy soldering won't cause bridging or shorting. I'll be testing the crossovers the next couple of days.

I did a dry fit of the center speaker. If I had enough clamps, I could put that together in 1 shot but since I don't, going over what to glue first, second, etc.. I'll also dry fit one of the LR speakers to check where to cut the baffle and where the brace falls in relation to the planned cut.

Also decided that rather than paint the baffle and back, I'll use vinyl. Figure it's faster and it's something I haven't don't before. I'm also not fond of painting. https://vvividshop.com/products/brushed-black This has been used in a few documented builds and @gixerking gives a brief tutorial on how he did his 1899s https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...-center-2.html.

I'm missing a couple of pieces that have to supplied outside the kit so have to wait on that.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Xover.jpg
Views:	64
Size:	125.7 KB
ID:	2480368  

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #5 of 40 Old 11-09-2018, 04:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trilkb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
Posts: 1,173
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 641 Post(s)
Liked: 323
Can't wait to see finished pics and read first impressions with music and movies!

- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
trilkb is offline  
post #6 of 40 Old 11-09-2018, 05:16 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Medford, OR
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 21
You can use shears to cut the laminate. It works fine, as long as you don't try to bend it too much while cutting. Water based contact is nice for it's lack of fumes, but it sucks as an adhesive --- Pick your poison. A flush trim bit on a router is a "must".


Have fun!
scary1 is offline  
post #7 of 40 Old 11-09-2018, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by scary1 View Post
You can use shears to cut the laminate. It works fine, as long as you don't try to bend it too much while cutting. Water based contact is nice for it's lack of fumes, but it sucks as an adhesive --- Pick your poison. A flush trim bit on a router is a "must".


Have fun!
Thanks. It was fun doing the crossovers - hadn't really soldered before. Looking forward to the challenge of modifying the flat pack configuration.

Did you do the 893 TMWW build documented on hificircuit? I would have gone that route if DIYSG still had the 893. Nice being able to do 2.0 stereo.

Waiting to hear from @tuxedocivic about whether I need to modify cavity size of top vs middle compartment. TM cavity is smaller than W so if I move the TM to the top by simply cutting the baffle while leaving the back panel alone (it has the CNC rabbets cut into it for the braces), the smaller cavity that was for the TM would now have a W in it. I was hoping I wouldn't need to cut a new rabbet in the back panel to restore compartment sizes close to original spec for W vs TM.

Have to go buy the female disconnects so I can test the crossovers.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #8 of 40 Old 11-09-2018, 07:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 7,988
Mentioned: 227 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2300 Post(s)
Liked: 2225
Unfortunately the woofer cavities need to be the same, or at least pretty close. Not sure how the flat pack is configured but can you seal up the tweeter/mid chamber with a piece of 1/2” mdf?

My youtube channel: Impulse Audio
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #9 of 40 Old 11-09-2018, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Unfortunately the woofer cavities need to be the same, or at least pretty close. Not sure how the flat pack is configured but can you seal up the tweeter/mid chamber with a piece of 1/2” mdf?
Thanks for the response...guess it won't be as easy as I hoped. I'll have to measure everything and see whether I just need to cut a new rabbet or fill the existing one to be able to cut the new one if there is overlap. Only the back panel has rabbet cuts so at least I can leave the side panels alone. I'll be using a router I haven't touched in 25 years to cut the rabbet. I'll practice using the router tomorrow and cut some rabbets on some scrap.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #10 of 40 Old 11-09-2018, 09:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 273
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I went on the site the other day to buy 3 (L,F,C) but they only had 2 in stock.. definitely following this

Denon X4400H Emotiva XPS-7 Balanced minidsp 2X4
Klipsch icon series FLC/surrounds, RSL C34E for .4
2 4cu sealed Tc Sounds Lms Ultra 5400s FB14000
Xbox one X, Shield 4k, sony 65" X900F, RS540U, 115" 2.35:1 HD Fury Linker
MagnumMafia05 is offline  
post #11 of 40 Old 11-09-2018, 11:11 PM
Member
 
spotts29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: 92104
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Looking forward to this build - more pics!

Wow, splendid days!

Speaker Build
spotts29 is offline  
post #12 of 40 Old 11-10-2018, 06:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
smcmillan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Farmington, MI, USA
Posts: 1,884
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 801 Post(s)
Liked: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDHacker View Post
OK, just ordered the regular stuff from out of state. One store indicated they couldn't ship to CA but another didn't list CA as excluded. How long do you wait before flush trimming? Do you wait 20 - 30 minutes for the regular glue to set up before putting the laminate on the surface?
Until the cement is just tacky, no longer wet, about 5 minutes or so. It should not stick to your hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDHacker View Post
Use a J roller?
Yes, wherever possible.

There is a video in post 14 of my VBSS build in my sig. There's some good information in there, and a number of other good videos pertaining to laminate/veneer can be found online.
smcmillan2 is offline  
post #13 of 40 Old 11-10-2018, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by spotts29 View Post
Looking forward to this build - more pics!
The build threads where people talk about what they did and what they would have done differently are so valuable to those of us building the same model or configuration, especially us newbies. Use the lessons others have learned the hard way. So thanks to all that created build threads and shared their experiences with us. I started this thread to not only get help from knowledgeable members but to pass on my experiences like others have done for me.

Using your build as the model - you're the reason I'm cutting the rabbet instead of just cutting the brace. Taking the first phase slow so I can plan it out and try to avoid mistakes so nothing to really take pics of yet.

Have to work up the courage to cut that baffle - only a 1/4 inch (6 cm for you metric folks) between the cutouts for the W and waveguide.

Woke up with a migraine so not sure whether I'll be able to practice cutting the rabbet or not today - darn Santa Ana winds.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #14 of 40 Old 11-10-2018, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
Until the cement is just tacky, no longer wet, about 5 minutes or so. It should not stick to your hand.



Yes, wherever possible.

There is a video in post 14 of my VBSS build in my sig. There's some good information in there, and a number of other good videos pertaining to laminate/veneer can be found online.
Thanks. Appreciate the advice and sharing your knowledge/experience.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #15 of 40 Old 11-10-2018, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumMafia05 View Post
I went on the site the other day to buy 3 (L,F,C) but they only had 2 in stock.. definitely following this
Wow - guess the Elusive part of the name still holds. Bummer - hope Erich can restock soon.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #16 of 40 Old 11-10-2018, 04:03 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Medford, OR
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Did you do the 893 TMWW build documented on hificircuit? I would have gone that route if DIYSG still had the 893. Nice being able to do 2.0 stereo.


Yes, that was me who did the 893s in a TMWW config. I have never regretted building them that way. (other than to wonder how good the 1099s would sound)

You're going to love them.
scary1 is offline  
post #17 of 40 Old 11-11-2018, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
With the first picture, you can see the compartments are the same size whether it's the vertical or horizontal speaker (the 1 with the arrow in the left compartment is the vertical speaker. Woofer compartments are 11.5" and mid/T is 10.25". All panels went together well for the dry fit. Helps you picture how you would put the pieces together for gluing.

It's hard to see but the pic that only shows 1 rabbet and the side panel, I put pencil marks on the side panel to mark where the rabbet is. The picture where there are 2 rabbets and the side panel shows the side panel flipped so the pencil marks are on top (unfortunately, camera angle and distance disparity makes the marks look like they don't match up with the rabbets). The pencil marks make it easy to see that the brace is 90 degrees to the bottom without having to use a carpenters/rafter square while gluing - fast and easy.

Performing the crossover test on the 3 crossovers. Worked great. Buy the crossover PCB from DIYSG. It lays everything out for you so there is no guessing what goes where. Even if you've never soldered before, after watching Matt
, I was able to do it with my $4 Harbor Freight soldering iron. But I did secure a backup plan first just in case I screwed it up.. @ja00 lives about 100 miles from me and he gave me a lot of confidence to give it a shot by offering to help me out if I got in trouble. Guys like Joe are what makes this forum so great.

Cut the rabbet in the 2 vertical speakers back panel to make the top compartment 10.25" while the middle and bottom are 11.5". This is in prep to make the vertical 1099s a TMWW config. You can see the arrow reminding me which way is up.

And finally, gluing the center speaker. It takes a LOT of clamps. Had to borrow some pipe clamps from my neighbor.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Dry fit2.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	141.9 KB
ID:	2481824   Click image for larger version

Name:	dry fit3.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	117.6 KB
ID:	2481826   Click image for larger version

Name:	pencil mark.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	102.9 KB
ID:	2481828   Click image for larger version

Name:	pencil2.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	72.6 KB
ID:	2481830   Click image for larger version

Name:	rabbet.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	101.0 KB
ID:	2481832  

Click image for larger version

Name:	rabbet1.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	101.4 KB
ID:	2481834   Click image for larger version

Name:	xover test.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	163.3 KB
ID:	2481836   Click image for larger version

Name:	clamps.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	118.2 KB
ID:	2481838  

Last edited by SDHacker; 11-12-2018 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Pics missing
SDHacker is offline  
post #18 of 40 Old 11-12-2018, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Out of state store canceled my order for solvent based contact cement - can't be shipped to CA. So guess I'm stuck with water based. Now, I wish I had planned to go all vinyl. DAP support says to use the contact cement like primer - keep putting coats on the MDF until it stops absorbing it. We'll see how that works. Have to test on some scrap (which I don't have - I'll go buy some MDF at HD plus the contact cement).

I'll glue the next cabinet minus the baffle tonight and the last cabinet the night after.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #19 of 40 Old 11-12-2018, 03:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
smcmillan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Farmington, MI, USA
Posts: 1,884
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 801 Post(s)
Liked: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDHacker View Post
Out of state store canceled my order for solvent based contact cement - can't be shipped to CA. So guess I'm stuck with water based. Now, I wish I had planned to go all vinyl. DAP support says to use the contact cement like primer - keep putting coats on the MDF until it stops absorbing it. We'll see how that works. Have to test on some scrap (which I don't have - I'll go buy some MDF at HD plus the contact cement).

I'll glue the next cabinet minus the baffle tonight and the last cabinet the night after.
The exposed edges of the MDF will soak up the most adhesive, be sure to put extra coats on those. In fact, be sure to give all the edges an extra coat or 2, as that is most likely where the laminate would start peeling from. I put extra coats around the edges on both the substrate as well as the laminate.

And try to pick low humidity times to apply the laminate, especially when using the non-flammable adhesive.

Work a couple of test pieces first, and take your time. It really is a simple process once you have some experience.
SDHacker likes this.
smcmillan2 is offline  
post #20 of 40 Old 11-12-2018, 08:01 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Medford, OR
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Cut the baffles yet? That turned out to be simple. Just plan it out and be accurate..
scary1 is offline  
post #21 of 40 Old 11-13-2018, 05:34 AM
Senior Member
 
Steve Kuester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 407
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 325
I finished my 893s with laminate. I didn't document the whole thing, but this writeup in my build thread is about the best I can offer - Posts 103 and 104.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post56199018

One thing I thought of regarding using a J-roller. When you are rolling your piece on, make sure you don't go over the edge of the box (where the laminate is hanging over) or you will crack the laminate. Or just don't roll all the way to the edges until you trim your laminate pieces flush.

As for the rough cuts of the laminate, I just used a straight edge and a box cutter. Score the laminate several times and then it will snap off nicely.

I built a couple practice boxes as I had never worked with contact cement or laminate before. I would recommend doing the same.

Good luck.
SDHacker likes this.

I turn the sharpness on my TV all the way up, because that's how I like my picture... real sharp.


Jumping into DIY - My 893, Volt 6, and UM18(x4) build
Steve Kuester is offline  
post #22 of 40 Old 11-13-2018, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
The exposed edges of the MDF will soak up the most adhesive, be sure to put extra coats on those. In fact, be sure to give all the edges an extra coat or 2, as that is most likely where the laminate would start peeling from. I put extra coats around the edges on both the substrate as well as the laminate.

And try to pick low humidity times to apply the laminate, especially when using the non-flammable adhesive.

Work a couple of test pieces first, and take your time. It really is a simple process once you have some experience.
I didn't think about humidity - it makes sense. Water based would take longer to evaporate. Timing is bad. We're going from humidity in the teens to possible showers for over a week. I'll work on the test pieces during that period. Test pieces will tell me how long I have to wait before trimming.

Good advice on applying extra on the edges on both the laminate and mdf - I'll make sure to do that.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #23 of 40 Old 11-13-2018, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kuester View Post
I finished my 893s with laminate. I didn't document the whole thing, but this writeup in my build thread is about the best I can offer - Posts 103 and 104.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post56199018

One thing I thought of regarding using a J-roller. When you are rolling your piece on, make sure you don't go over the edge of the box (where the laminate is hanging over) or you will crack the laminate. Or just don't roll all the way to the edges until you trim your laminate pieces flush.

As for the rough cuts of the laminate, I just used a straight edge and a box cutter. Score the laminate several times and then it will snap off nicely.

I built a couple practice boxes as I had never worked with contact cement or laminate before. I would recommend doing the same.

Good luck.
I had read your thread in prep for my build. I forgot about the snapping part of cutting the laminate so I abandoned using a box cutter/utility knife.

Thanks for the advice on rolling the edges.

Madagascar was one of the finalists for me too. In the end, I worried about the reflections off the super glossy finish on the center so went with something with a matte finish.
Steve Kuester likes this.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #24 of 40 Old 11-13-2018, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by scary1 View Post
Cut the baffles yet? That turned out to be simple. Just plan it out and be accurate..
I drew the line - that does count?

OK, I made the cut and the margin for error is really thin.

With the positioning of the TM at the top, the waveguide doesn't fit into the assembled cabinet (since the baffle isn't installed yet, I can just sand down the top brace). So I have the first "If I did this again" thought...and this is how I'm going to handle the 2nd speaker (the cabinet that is already assembled, I'll add a 3/4 top piece so the dimensions of the 2 speakers will stay the same). In assembling the cabinet, don't use the included brace which goes between the vertical panels at the top but cut a new piece that goes on top of the vertical panels. That will provide the necessary space to mount the waveguide and the additional cabinet above the waveguide for aesthetics. I'll have to do a couple of mock-ups to see what it looks like.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	precut.jpg
Views:	60
Size:	898.2 KB
ID:	2482224   Click image for larger version

Name:	cut.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	2.03 MB
ID:	2482226  
dorri732 likes this.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #25 of 40 Old 11-15-2018, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Glued the baffles back together. To account for the kerf cut lost in the baffle, I added a 1/2" to the bottom which I will flush trim after I glue the baffle to the cabinet.

In the 2 towers pic, you can see the right corner was patched - I flush trimmed it while having the baffle clamped to the cabinet and it wasn't quite square. Sealed the TM section with caulk since I opened a new tube to seal the holes for the wire. BTW, my 20 volt drill + bit didn't fit into the woofer space. Unless you have a small drill, do the holes for the wires before gluing the cabinet. Also, you can compare having just the 1 top piece vs using the supplied brace + top piece. Definitely don't use the supplied brace if converting to TMWW. I had to router out where the flange of the waveguide connects to the compression drive in the top brace. If you just have the top piece that sits on top of the panels, there won't be a problem.

Crossover installed using industrial velcro. Don't know if you can see that I've "activated" the HF pad on the left side of the PCB by looping a wire from the + to -.

The tower pic has the waveguide sitting in place to show scale with the 3/4" piece on top. Looks good so far. If I wasn't using laminate, I would round over the top.

I hope to cut the laminate tonight and glue the foam.

Have to babysit tomorrow and Saturday, I'm busy, so might not make any progress until Sunday. Maybe I'll get to the other 2 crossover installs before Sunday.

Did a test using the low VOC contact cement with MDF and laminate. 3 coats of adhesive on mdf and 2 on laminate worked. Good strong bond. Instant stick. 40 minute setup time after last coating with low humidity and temp in 70's.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bottom.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	268.0 KB
ID:	2483384   Click image for larger version

Name:	2 towers.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	286.7 KB
ID:	2483386   Click image for larger version

Name:	xover installed.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	357.8 KB
ID:	2483388   Click image for larger version

Name:	tower.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	724.2 KB
ID:	2483390  
notfastenough likes this.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #26 of 40 Old 11-15-2018, 05:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 432
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 215
@SDHacker dude... I'm glad I looked at this thread. This was an excellent idea! I've been going over how I wanted to raise the 1299s to have the tweeter more ear level and never thought about cutting the baffle like you did. Definitely going to look into that before I start construction. Yours turned out excellent so far!

Blister64 Full Basement Build Panasonic PT-AE8000U | Yamaha RX-A3070 | Emotiva LPA-1 (Currently Fried) | DIY Sound Group Ported 1299 TMWW Front Stage | DIY SG Volt 10 Surrounds | Monoprice 8" Alpha In-ceiling Atmos | Dayton Ultimax 15 | Crown XPS1000
Living Room Duty- DIY Swope TMWW LCR
Currently Building- (3) Stereo Integrity HS-24 mkiii's
blister64 is offline  
post #27 of 40 Old 11-15-2018, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by blister64 View Post
@SDHacker dude... I'm glad I looked at this thread. This was an excellent idea! I've been going over how I wanted to raise the 1299s to have the tweeter more ear level and never thought about cutting the baffle like you did. Definitely going to look into that before I start construction. Yours turned out excellent so far!
Thanks. Yes, rather than build a 16" stand for the 1099, making it a TMWW design only requires 3 - 4" to bring the T to ear height. One consideration for the 1299 is that the baffle is not ported like the 1099. The woofer in the 1099 doesn't allow for modification of the woofer section into a larger volume to tune the bass while the 1299 can be built as a tower with custom porting allowing for bass down into the 30's (if you wanted to do that so you could run them as 2.0 stereo for music). If you aren't interested in that, then converting to a TMWW configuration would probably result in not having to build up the height at all...it might even be a little high.

Good luck with your build.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)
SDHacker is offline  
post #28 of 40 Old 11-16-2018, 10:33 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 432
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDHacker View Post
Thanks. Yes, rather than build a 16" stand for the 1099, making it a TMWW design only requires 3 - 4" to bring the T to ear height. One consideration for the 1299 is that the baffle is not ported like the 1099. The woofer in the 1099 doesn't allow for modification of the woofer section into a larger volume to tune the bass while the 1299 can be built as a tower with custom porting allowing for bass down into the 30's (if you wanted to do that so you could run them as 2.0 stereo for music). If you aren't interested in that, then converting to a TMWW configuration would probably result in not having to build up the height at all...it might even be a little high.

Good luck with your build.
It was an excellent idea... Yea I probably will be adding a few inches to the height to bring them up a bit if I do the TMWW design (sealed). I have thought about porting as well, although I won't ever really be doing any 2.0 listening. Pretty much theater duty or music with subs. I might discuss that on my thread a little more before starting.

Blister64 Full Basement Build Panasonic PT-AE8000U | Yamaha RX-A3070 | Emotiva LPA-1 (Currently Fried) | DIY Sound Group Ported 1299 TMWW Front Stage | DIY SG Volt 10 Surrounds | Monoprice 8" Alpha In-ceiling Atmos | Dayton Ultimax 15 | Crown XPS1000
Living Room Duty- DIY Swope TMWW LCR
Currently Building- (3) Stereo Integrity HS-24 mkiii's
blister64 is offline  
post #29 of 40 Old 11-20-2018, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
I still have to run audyssey XT32 but I have functioning 1099 LCRs. Running them with with default manual setting. I need to build the 3" high base for the LR speakers but didn't want to wait on that before putting them to use. I ran woofer break-in for over 40 minutes using a 36 Hz sine wave with a free audio tone generator app.

Last picture shows my Klipsch bookshelf speaker on top of the 1099 that replaced it. It's a marked improvement. But with the default manual setting, I find female vocals irritating - a tinny quality that is much worse than the Klipsch. Electric guitar sounds amazing due to that same brightness. I ran the 1099 on left channel and the Klipsch (also the center speaker) or JBL on right channel in stereo Does not come close to JBL L300s but that's comparing a $400 speaker to something that retailed for $1,500 back in late 70's (which would be about $7,000 today according to an online calculator). The JBL comes with 2 L-pads (or attenuators) that control brilliance and presence so they are customized to how I want to hear music. The bookshelf speaker was just overpowered by the 1099. Yikes, the center sounded awful compared to the 1099. I'll try to give another impression after I've either run audyssey or played with manual EQ.

I completed the 1099 center. I'll have to watch some movies (after running audyssey - with the added bass coming from the 1099s compared to the Klipsch small speakers, the integration of the subs with the 1099 needs to improve). I will be running the crossover to the subs at 100 Hz.

I'll also do a post of "what I would do differently" and what I found helpful.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	skinned.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	671.0 KB
ID:	2485618   Click image for larger version

Name:	finish.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	631.4 KB
ID:	2485620   Click image for larger version

Name:	compare.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	360.0 KB
ID:	2485622  
kagtha likes this.

HT: Vizio PQ65-F1, Denon X3400H, DIYSG 1099 LCR, Klipsch RS-3 ii, R-12SWi, R-112SW, Sony UBP-X700
Music: Accuphase P300 amp, Accuphase C200 pre, JBL L300 (yes, 40 year old equipment)

Last edited by SDHacker; 11-20-2018 at 08:01 PM. Reason: pics didn't add with quick reply
SDHacker is offline  
post #30 of 40 Old 11-21-2018, 11:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
smcmillan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Farmington, MI, USA
Posts: 1,884
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 801 Post(s)
Liked: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDHacker View Post
Last picture shows my Klipsch bookshelf speaker on top of the 1099 that replaced it. It's a marked improvement.

Cabs look great. Nice job on the laminate!
smcmillan2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off