$2500 Subwoofer Setup Suggestions - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 9Likes
  • 1 Post By Red Five
  • 1 Post By Red Five
  • 3 Post By dsl1
  • 1 Post By dsl1
  • 1 Post By Samps
  • 1 Post By Samps
  • 1 Post By Vince_B
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 11-19-2018, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Mandroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Polk City, Iowa
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 40
$2500 Subwoofer Setup Suggestions

Currently running a pair of Picowreckers in the basement from a 3000dsp, hpf in place with no eq. Floor is concrete and seating is on a wooden riser with Clark transducers. The wreckers are decent, but with 7 channels of redirected bass, destructive room effects, and a healthy house curve, amps reach clipping 3-6db below the level I would like for some concerts and movies(I like loud, but nowhere near rock concert loud). Both have been moved and measured at dozens of different locations around the room with results ranging from disappointing to terrible. The upper response doesn't lend itself well to midbass or easy integration either, so building more of them is not preferable.

I have two rooms in the house large enough to put the system in; acoustically, both are the stuff of nightmares. Planning on four subs and four independent delays to help deal with some of the modal issues. There always seems to be some amount of destructive interaction between multiple subs, but the overall response does end up slightly better and more consistent across a small-ish listening area. Doesn't do a thing for 80-300Hz, but I'll take what I can get. As for frequency extension, the house makes so many distracting noises at low frequency, I'm not convinced I even care about anything below 30Hz. Rumbling sound effects are ok, but gunshots, drums, synth bass, and bass guitar get me far more excited. As much as I would like to move just to have a better environment for my theater, it's not going to happen for several more years.

Would like to avoid multi-way subwoofer setups and the additional integration nightmare they present; just four matching subs with good inductance control in reasonable sized enclosures.

The cost ceiling is based on the most expensive setup currently being considered, which is four 18TBW100-4 drivers each in 7ft^[email protected], a pair of NX6000D, 6 sheets of ply, and misc supplies. This is also the largest and heaviest setup I would consider. Don't want to have to haul a dozen enormous cabinets when I move(Did I mention the tiny 90degree landing at the bottom of the stairway?).

The other setup under strong consideration is four UM18s in 4ft^3 sealed powered by two NX6000Ds.

I don't want to have to spend on subwoofer upgrades again. Curious what others would do with a $2500 subwoofage budget including amplification and cabinets.

Last edited by Mandroid; 11-19-2018 at 06:16 PM.
Mandroid is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 11-19-2018, 06:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 792
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked: 441
Did you see GSG Audio? You can get four mini Marty's on a pallet for not a whole ton of money. UM18s would be good in there. Cubes are coming soon which would be good for 18TBW100s
curtisG likes this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #3 of 20 Old 11-19-2018, 07:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Maple Grove MN
Posts: 363
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked: 132
Just how tight is the 2500$ budget? I would say go for a set of Si Hs-24. I would give a very good odds that they might go on sale for Black Friday. I got mine this spring for 900$ each on sale. Then Madisound has the speaker power sp1-4000 for 950$. 100$ worth of wood a little glue and screws and there you go. So like 2850$ or so roughly. That would be my vote.
Randy_J is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 20 Old 11-19-2018, 07:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Samps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,729
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1220 Post(s)
Liked: 901
Four TBWs and two 6ks is a great plan. Tough to beat that.

It will be rock concert loud.
Samps is online now  
post #5 of 20 Old 11-19-2018, 07:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 792
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked: 441
@Samps I second the TBW opinion. I almost went that route, but going over numbers with John got me into the B&C 21DS115s. If you can stretch the budget they are a solid option as well. Waiting for the cube flat packs and loading them with TBWs would make for less man hours though.
Gorilla Killa likes this.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #6 of 20 Old 11-19-2018, 07:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Samps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,729
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1220 Post(s)
Liked: 901
I also debated between the TBW and DS21. With multiples the TBW is really good. I've modeled lots of drivers and it's one of the best if you don't need ULF. The newer neo pro 18s are better but more expensive.
Samps is online now  
post #7 of 20 Old 11-19-2018, 07:38 PM
Advanced Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 792
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked: 441
18DS? Those things are beast modeling them in Marty Cubes. In my opinion probably the most bang in a volume. Just keep dumping power in, they like it.

Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | B.M.D. (in progress)
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
Red Five is online now  
post #8 of 20 Old 11-19-2018, 07:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
dsl1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 801
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandroid View Post
I'm not convinced I even care about anything below 30Hz. Rumbling sound effects are ok, but gunshots, drums, synth bass, and bass guitar get me far more excited.

I don't want to have to spend on subwoofer upgrades again. Curious what others would do with a $2500 subwoofage budget including amplification and cabinets.
I'm in the same boat where I don't feel like it's worth chasing the sub 20hz content, especially on a concrete slab. I'll throw some extra scenario into the mix.

Option 1: If you felt comfortable building the picowreckers, could consider a pair of Othorns. You'd have an absurd about of headroom and would be able to eq down as needed for your room. I don't think you'll find anything else in the price range that would give you the same "gunshots, drums, synth bass, bass guitar" experience as them. They won't do much below 25hz, but who cares, that's why you have the transducers.

You could drive the pair off one nx6000 ($450ish) + 2x B&C 21SW152-4's ($1300ish) + wood. You'd come in under budget and get a pair of subs that even the crazy guys like @lukeamdman who like their bass at 145db don't upgrade. John Wick club scene with them feels like you are personally getting shot in the chest. Music sounds great.

You could use the left over money to figure out some room treatments. If you want more, just get a second nx6000.

Option 2: 4x Mini Marty's would be a nice upgrade. I don't know if they would meet the criteria of not upgrading subwoofers again. With the UM18's would fit under budget and sound great.

If you're going with the nx6000 and want a pair, could also consider getting the non-dsp version and grabbing a minidsp 2x4. Consolidate your eq'ing.
lukeamdman, michael hurd and bebb like this.

________________________________________
DIY Mid Hi Speakers Build - SKHorn Build - Gjallarhorn Build SOLD - Othorn Build SOLD - SEOS 12 Build - Other Gear: JVC NX5 - Seymour Matinee Black - QSC CX4.5Q amps x 5 - QSC Q-sys 110f - Speakerpower 6000 x2
dsl1 is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 11-19-2018, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Mandroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Polk City, Iowa
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post
I'm in the same boat where I don't feel like it's worth chasing the sub 20hz content, especially on a concrete slab. I'll throw some extra scenario into the mix.

Option 1: If you felt comfortable building the picowreckers, could consider a pair of Othorns. You'd have an absurd about of headroom and would be able to eq down as needed for your room. I don't think you'll find anything else in the price range that would give you the same "gunshots, drums, synth bass, bass guitar" experience as them. They won't do much below 25hz, but who cares, that's why you have the transducers.

You could drive the pair off one nx6000 ($450ish) + 2x B&C 21SW152-4's ($1300ish) + wood. You'd come in under budget and get a pair of subs that even the crazy guys like @lukeamdman who like their bass at 145db don't upgrade. John Wick club scene with them feels like you are personally getting shot in the chest. Music sounds great.

You could use the left over money to figure out some room treatments. If you want more, just get a second nx6000.

The Othorn's performance is compelling, enough to overlook its enormous size. Its response is so much cleaner than other popular designs, but I'm not sure I could find the motivation to cut and assemble multiples of those cabinets. Cost of Othorn pair should be very similar to four ported 18TBWs, minus one amplifier.


So tempting, but I think I would rather have more modal smoothing than obscene headroom. Bass room treatment is about as extensive as it's going to get already.
Mandroid is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 05:44 AM
Advanced Member
 
dsl1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 801
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandroid View Post
The Othorn's performance is compelling, enough to overlook its enormous size. Its response is so much cleaner than other popular designs, but I'm not sure I could find the motivation to cut and assemble multiples of those cabinets. Cost of Othorn pair should be very similar to four ported 18TBWs, minus one amplifier.


So tempting, but I think I would rather have more modal smoothing than obscene headroom. Bass room treatment is about as extensive as it's going to get already.
Makes sense, the 18TBWs should be excellent.

Edit: Just realized you're two hours from me, if you ever want to hear a pair of the Othorn's big brothers.
michael hurd likes this.

________________________________________
DIY Mid Hi Speakers Build - SKHorn Build - Gjallarhorn Build SOLD - Othorn Build SOLD - SEOS 12 Build - Other Gear: JVC NX5 - Seymour Matinee Black - QSC CX4.5Q amps x 5 - QSC Q-sys 110f - Speakerpower 6000 x2
dsl1 is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 05:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trilkb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
Posts: 1,182
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 642 Post(s)
Liked: 324
2500, hmmm. Id do 16 12's on 2 6k watt amps and save the other 1500, or find some better DSP amps then behringers. Could throw the rest into acoustic treatments

- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
trilkb is online now  
post #12 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 08:56 AM
Senior Member
 
K9woofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MB
Posts: 357
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 182 Post(s)
Liked: 119
I was already thinking TBW's before getting halfway through the first post.
K9woofer is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 01:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Samps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,729
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1220 Post(s)
Liked: 901
You might also consider the TBW15s if you really wanted something smaller. With four of them and enough power they would still get really loud. Most HT builds would never use the 15 since it's barely cheaper, but if size is a major factor the 15 may be the answer.

The BC RBX18 would be a cheaper option that models pretty good on moderate power and 25hz. You could do four of those with a single 6kdsp and still get really loud. Wouldn't have independent eq for each though.

Alot cheaper is the PA460 which works well in 7 cubes tuned to 25hz.

I have the TBW, RBX, and 460 in my winisd. I could show you the differences later. There is a clear step up from 460-->RBX-->TBW
Samps is online now  
post #14 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 01:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gorilla Killa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee Mtns
Posts: 2,695
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1326 Post(s)
Liked: 1832
I have the 21ds115's, I agree if your not chasing sub 20hz low tuned PA for the win. Tuned at 17hz Im impressed with what they do. I still have a IB im not using, don't miss it.

8hz ULF TR for the masses and the Cashless. Like a BOSS


If you can't stand behind our troops stand in front of them
Gorilla Killa is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 02:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
stegen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: La Crescent, MN
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 117
$500 more and you can get my gjallarhorns with a prolite 7.5
stegen is online now  
post #16 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 03:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BCRSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 1,139
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 491 Post(s)
Liked: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
You might also consider the TBW15s if you really wanted something smaller. With four of them and enough power they would still get really loud. Most HT builds would never use the 15 since it's barely cheaper, but if size is a major factor the 15 may be the answer.

The BC RBX18 would be a cheaper option that models pretty good on moderate power and 25hz. You could do four of those with a single 6kdsp and still get really loud. Wouldn't have independent eq for each though.

Alot cheaper is the PA460 which works well in 7 cubes tuned to 25hz.

I have the TBW, RBX, and 460 in my winisd. I could show you the differences later. There is a clear step up from 460-->RBX-->TBW
I would be interested in seeing those graphs if you don't mind.


BCRSS is online now  
post #17 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Mandroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Polk City, Iowa
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 40
I wonder how much the high inductance of the PA460 alters the actual response from the Winisd model.
Mandroid is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 04:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Samps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,729
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1220 Post(s)
Liked: 901
Inductance isn't going to be much of an issue with any of these pro audio drivers. Maybe the DS21 a little.

This graph is max spl of each driver in 7 cubic feet tuned to 25hz. Each is getting a different amount of power to reach xmax. But all of them can be maxed out with the 6kdsp.

Green-- DS21
Red-- TBW18
Blue-- RBX18
Yellow-- PA460


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Pro Sub Compare.jpg.JPG
Views:	68
Size:	84.8 KB
ID:	2485498  
BCRSS likes this.
Samps is online now  
post #19 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 04:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Samps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,729
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1220 Post(s)
Liked: 901
If that's not enough noise at 30hz, here is the TBW at 7 cubes tuned to 25hz vs 30hz. You can see how much more you can get by tuning higher.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TBW 25 v 30 7ft3.JPG
Views:	70
Size:	79.0 KB
ID:	2485500  
BCRSS likes this.
Samps is online now  
post #20 of 20 Old 11-20-2018, 07:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Vince_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hummelstown PA USA
Posts: 1,440
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Wonder if Black Friday will see a cheap hs-24 this year. If so you might squeak in two of those sealed and a clone or a 6000dsp. In my room at reference they probably move a little more than 1/2”. Kind of scary to contemplate full clone power on something like wotw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
dltnjarrel likes this.
Vince_B is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off