F*^$@!# router bits!!! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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F*^[email protected]!# router bits!!!

Am I doing something wrong here? I'm making boxes, I'm leaving some overhang then coming back with a flush cut bit. Bearing on the first bit crapped out, bearing on the second bit flew off and gouged my edge.

Now...at the risk of asking a stupid question....am I doing it wrong? I have an old router that spins super fast, I'm not putting a ton of pressure on the bearing, and I'm letting the big cut. Still, two busted bits and the second one bought the farm after maybe 8' of cutting MDF.

Or are these just crappy bits? (They cost 15-20$ each if that matters)

Finally...how the heck do I fix that gouged edge?

Thanks guys
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post #2 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 08:19 AM
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What’s the recommended speed for the bit and what does your router operate at?


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post #3 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 08:21 AM
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Looks like the bearing wasn’t tightened down.

Yes $20 bits are poor quality but they should last longer than 8 feet and not blow up like that.

Are these 1/4” or 1/2”?


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post #4 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 08:28 AM
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You can fix that edge with bondo. Build it up and router it flush again. The spiral cut flush trim bits will cut a little cleaner and hopefully the bearings hold up next time.
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post #5 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 08:30 AM
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I use the Diablo bits, they lasted quite some time for me.

Based on the picture of the gouge I would say lower the cutting portion a bit, not so close to the very end of the cutting edges at the seam. It also looks like, from that pic, either the bits or the collet may not be straight - There's quite a bit of chirping on the trimmed portion.

Do they appear to spin straight?

ETA: As Trimlock alluded to, always check your bearings before cutting.
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post #6 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastskiguy View Post
Am I doing something wrong here? I'm making boxes, I'm leaving some overhang then coming back with a flush cut bit. Bearing on the first bit crapped out, bearing on the second bit flew off and gouged my edge.

Now...at the risk of asking a stupid question....am I doing it wrong? I have an old router that spins super fast, I'm not putting a ton of pressure on the bearing, and I'm letting the big cut. Still, two busted bits and the second one bought the farm after maybe 8' of cutting MDF.

Or are these just crappy bits? (They cost 15-20$ each if that matters)

Finally...how the heck do I fix that gouged edge?

Thanks guys

Hard to tell, if these are 1/4" shank bits or not. That said, a 1/2" diameter shank is 8 times stiffer in deflection, and less prone to vibration or chatter, which can elevate the chances of breaking a bit.



Possibly no threadlocker on the screw to retain the bearing, vibration loosened it, and it flew off. If you have Loctite or equivalent threadlocker, you can remove the screw and apply some before using a bit for insurance it will not fly off.



For the bearing that went for a dump.... that is a junk bearing. In no way should it fail after a few revolutions other than a lack of lubricant.



I would lighten the load on the router some by carefully trimming the excess down closer to the box before attempting another pass.



A gouged edge can be repaired with 2 component polyester resin autobody filler. Mix a small amount of filler with the hardener, and apply to the gouge, then sand flat after curing. ( usually 20 minutes or so ) Start with P80 grit on a block, and finish in P180 before priming.



Depending on your skill in application and sanding, you may need a second coat of body filler before the repair is seamless. A long block with sandpaper wrapped around it will enable you to get that flat without creating a depression.
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post #7 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 12:41 PM
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Bondo will fix it. Grab it at Walmart.
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post #8 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 01:37 PM
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In my one new build experience MDF wrecks bearing bits- and best one i have used is spiral flush trim-And for fixing Titebond 2 and mdf dust lol
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post #9 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 01:40 PM
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I only use frued router bits and prefer 1/2” shanks . I suspect your taking off to material at once for this bit . To bad you don’t have larger bearings in order to take off smaller amounts with each pass
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post #10 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 03:16 PM
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Always check your bearings before starting a cut.



Also, straight fluted bits create more chatter (vibration) than a spiral bit. Excessive vibration might be hard on a bearing and possibly even loosen the screw which holds it in place.



Switch to a spiral bit and get a cleaner cut as a bonus.


I have been using this one lately and am happy with it.


https://www.amazon.com/CMT-191-507-1...MT+191.507.11B
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post #11 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 03:37 PM
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Does the you router have excess vibration in the shaft? I've blown the bearings off two flush trim bits using an old router that either had an uneven collet or bent shaft. The vibration wreaks havoc on the bearing and it eventually gives way. I was able to replace the bearing on one of those bits and with my newer router it's lasted several hundred feet so far without issue.
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post #12 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 10:53 PM
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I just realized that’s Freud packaging! Contact them and explain the situation, they’ve replaced all my blown bits for free. I heard they’ll even pay for blown projects too.


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post #13 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 11:14 PM
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I want to add since it’s hardly ever explained. If you are cutting 3/4” material with a 3/4” long bit, that is also a recipe for disaster. Especially on 1/4” bits, of you are loading up the entire blade on small bits you will encounter maximum force and these smaller bits just aren’t made to handle that.

Plus straight knife cutters like these have the most force applied on contact, where as spiral applies the force through the entire rotation of the big. The more flutes the more force, you don’t need or want more force with MDF, compared to hard wood cutting MDF is like cutting mud, you want a smooth slow motion cut with it. Don’t force the bit into it either, let it shave off the outer edges and work inward. The harder you push into the wood the bearing works harder than it needs to and will blow up.


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post #14 of 36 Old 11-25-2018, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorTendonitis View Post
I only use frued router bits and prefer 1/2” shanks . I suspect your taking off to material at once for this bit . To bad you don’t have larger bearings in order to take off smaller amounts with each pass

This. Whenever possible use 1/2” shank. If the overhang is more than 1/8 just go over it in small passes and trim it down before going for flush. Just run the router along with light pressure and let it do the cutting. There’s a right amount of load for the motor, listen as you start cutting and keep the motor in it’s happy place. Just used a Freud flush 1/2” shank bit and it was good. Never have had a bearing fall off. Have some that seem like oil might help though


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post #15 of 36 Old 11-26-2018, 03:58 AM
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Another option is to use a belt sander to get it close then follow up with a finish sander. You have to be careful though they take a lot of material off real quick.
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post #16 of 36 Old 11-26-2018, 05:21 AM
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I had a Freud flush trim 1/2" shank bearing blow out on me before but it was after a lot of hard use and its demise was most likely due to being gummed up with dried contact adhesive from trimming veneer. That being said, I have switched to buying Whiteside bits for everything because the bearings seem more robust and have less play than the Freud.
On a side note, your packaging looks like a Freud Diablo bit which I've read is lesser quality than a standard Freud industrial bit.
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post #17 of 36 Old 11-26-2018, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah you guys are great, lots of good idea here

It's 1/4", one of the boxes says something crazy about max rpm...like 20,000 or something like that and I'm pretty sure I'm below that. I'm not feeling any play in the router and the bits seem straight.

One idea was that I was taking off too much material....and on one side I had 2" of overhang, I just blasted thru it. Maybe flush cut bits should be more for trimming up the edge vs. using them to save time with the circular saw?

Thanks again guys!
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post #18 of 36 Old 11-26-2018, 08:21 AM
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F*^[email protected]!# router bits!!!

Duplicate post

Last edited by Vince_B; 11-26-2018 at 08:25 AM.
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post #19 of 36 Old 11-26-2018, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastskiguy View Post
One idea was that I was taking off too much material....and on one side I had 2" of overhang, I just blasted thru it. Maybe flush cut bits should be more for trimming up the edge vs. using them to save time with the circular saw?



Thanks again guys!

This here. Try max taking off 1/8 at a time. I try to leave 1/16” overhang because it’s faster to trim.

Also as someone else said maybe bearing is not down far enough and it’s getting hung against all that wood?

With a 1/4” solid upcut bit my router is happy taking about 1/4” depth per pass when cutting circles. Bit stays cooler and router rpm stays up. Takes three passes but is smooth and feels safe.



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post #20 of 36 Old 11-26-2018, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastskiguy View Post
Ah you guys are great, lots of good idea here

It's 1/4", one of the boxes says something crazy about max rpm...like 20,000 or something like that and I'm pretty sure I'm below that. I'm not feeling any play in the router and the bits seem straight.

One idea was that I was taking off too much material....and on one side I had 2" of overhang, I just blasted thru it. Maybe flush cut bits should be more for trimming up the edge vs. using them to save time with the circular saw?

Thanks again guys!

I think this is your problem, you should only be removing at the most 1/8th of an inch, more like 1/16" rather than trying to plow through a 2" overhang.



Excess vibration and chatter can lead to the bearing retainer screw backing out, the bit walking out of the collet, and bit breakage.



1/4" routers are ok for trimming, though for heavier work a 1/2" is a better choice.
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post #21 of 36 Old 11-26-2018, 09:56 AM
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I use a lot of Chinese bits, even flush trim straight blade bits with up to 2-1/2" cut length. After several big subs, only problem I've noticed is the cut diameter being a hair over the bearing diameter, which leaves a tiny ridge.

I work with 3/4" ply and no more than 1/8" hangover, and try to remove as much hardened glue drip before trimming. Plowing a slot through MDF may be a whole different animal... Changing your feedrate might help. Never force the bit.

I also lube the bearings with graphited oil before each use. Only bearing problem I've had was on a roundover bit that had been incorrectly assembled by the factory (upside down washer locked the outer race instead of the inner, didn't take long for smoke).

Just because you're at or below the max speed, doesn't mean you're at the best speed. You might consider the ubiquitous and cheap "Router Speed Control" from Harbor Freight. It does a sloppy job at speed control, but it does tame my little 1/4" trim router. If by chance you have a variac you could try that, just keep the dust out of it!
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post #22 of 36 Old 11-26-2018, 11:49 PM
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I'm a Whiteside bit guy. Solid Carbide. The cheap stuff just doesn't hold up, and MDF is hard on bits.

https://www.amazon.com/Whiteside-Rou...ral+flush+trim
^^^ Downcut

https://www.amazon.com/Whiteside-Rou...ral+flush+trim
^^^ Upcut

Generally speaking, you want a downcut for hand routers and upcut for routing tables. There's much more nuance to it for finish work but it'll get you started. A complete toolbox should have both. For MDF use you're looking to pull the material away from your face.

First, you want a spiral bit for MDF. It keeps the cutting edge in constant contact and make MUCH smoother cuts. However, you MUST rough-cut your material. Never try to trim more than 1/2 the diameter of the bit. So a 1/4" shank shouldn't be used to trim more than 1/8" of material.

Cheap bits come with cheap bearings.

Answering a "stupid question" with a stupid question - How are you setting your bit depth?
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post #23 of 36 Old 11-27-2018, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastskiguy View Post
Ah you guys are great, lots of good idea here

It's 1/4", one of the boxes says something crazy about max rpm...like 20,000 or something like that and I'm pretty sure I'm below that. I'm not feeling any play in the router and the bits seem straight.

One idea was that I was taking off too much material....and on one side I had 2" of overhang, I just blasted thru it. Maybe flush cut bits should be more for trimming up the edge vs. using them to save time with the circular saw?

Thanks again guys!
That's too much material for that set up to hog out. But to be fair, the bearing blowing was on Freud, going through that much material would dull the bit faster and would put unnecessary strain on the router motor. Its generally a bad idea to have material on both sides of the bit like that, especially smaller bits, can cause kick back really easy when dealing with 3/4" stock.
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post #24 of 36 Old 11-27-2018, 02:54 AM
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At work we roundover the edge of aluminum busbarre that serve as current conductor in aluminium mill and we use router with cheap samona 40$ bit. They work like a charm for that purpose but we always use red loctite on the bearing screw. I started doing it at home too but with blue loctite since it’s more removable and not as heavy duty use 😂

But loctite is definately a good insurance with any bit. Cheaper than a ruined work.
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post #25 of 36 Old 11-27-2018, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX3ST View Post
Answering a "stupid question" with a stupid question - How are you setting your bit depth?
Just kinda eyeball, they were 1" cutting bits in 3/4" MDF so I tried for about 1/8" of the blade above the "flat part of the bottom of the router" <-whatever you call that

I figured centering the cutting edge on my overhang would be a good starting place.
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post #26 of 36 Old 11-27-2018, 06:44 AM
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I am also new to routers and bit types, lots of good info in here.

Thanks guys !
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post #27 of 36 Old 11-28-2018, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX3ST View Post

Generally speaking, you want a downcut for hand routers and upcut for routing tables. There's much more nuance to it for finish work but it'll get you started. A complete toolbox should have both. For MDF use you're looking to pull the material away from your face.
Does the down cutting lift the router up or do you just go slow and it's not an issue? I can see how the upchucking bit would spray dust everywhere LOL.
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post #28 of 36 Old 11-28-2018, 10:08 AM
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No lifting power.


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post #29 of 36 Old 11-28-2018, 12:46 PM
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Hmm The last time I grabbed my freud 1/2" shank straight flush trim bit I noticed the bearings were really rough. IMO too rough considering the amount of work it had done. I chalked it up to lack of lubrication on my part and grabbed a different bit. This thread is making me wonder if these bearings are all just simply $h!+.
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post #30 of 36 Old 11-28-2018, 01:14 PM
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@Boxozaxu I think you're onto something with the Freud bearings being $h!+. Even brand new, they are not very smooth and seem to have way more play compared to my Whiteside bits.
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