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post #1021 of 1088 Old 01-03-2020, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
@Red Five , a few questions for you.
So I have 2 Devs V1 as you know. I also have 2 Mini Marty. Devs are on the back of room and Mini Marty are on the front. Back room good overall response for MLP but not for other 2 seats. Room has good gain below 30Hz on the front and together with all subs, I get good FR across all seats.
Issue: With Devs only, bass is super punchy and sharp and also great TR. With Mini + Devs, not so much. Please note that I have set the delays properly on the subs to make them play along well using REW. So, what can we do here??? A couple of options

1 - Build two more Devs: Most exciting option but I'd have to sell Mini Marty. Also space is a constrain. Can't go any bigger than Mini Marty Box. Can go higher but not deeper/wider.
2 - Increase more load on Devs and less on Mini Marty till I get the punchy bass I desire. Currently they are gained matched. I had to take away the 20Hz 10dB PEQ from devs to make sure they are gained matched properly.

What do you suggest?
Did you flip the phase on one pair of subs? See which pair flipped sounds better...


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini Devastator 18" w/460HO, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 1- 21" "Marty" tuned to 20hz, 1- 18" "Marty" tuned to 17Hz
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post #1022 of 1088 Old 01-03-2020, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
The coolest option would me either a Mini v1 or v2 (check Index on v2 info). Has a Dev been in the location where the Mini Marty sits? Does it sound punchy there? If nothing sounds punchy there it might be the spot.

You can try getting rid of the left corner boost and then use the massive amount of headroom and play around with the EQ. Options requiring time and money or just time, go for those time ones first if you can
Hmmm I haven't moved Dev there because devs are 30" and I barely can fit Mini Marty there. But I can move center out a bit, and then put Dev and see if it sounds good there with another one on the back. The thing about the front sub is that it has good gain from 20-40Hz and 80-100Hz. 40-80Hz is BADDD like 10dB swing. But together with back subs, it ends up giving very good FR. Front sub fills what back subs lack. In the back of room, even when I had Mini Marty which are tuned to 17Hz, had a drop after 30Hz.

As for EQ, I use Dirac + minidsp 2x4 so I have good flexibility to eq. Generally, I define a custom curve and Dirac does a very good job matching it. I confirm in REW by taking FR and making sure all is looking well.

Is there a preferred EQing for devs in general? Also, I do a 80Hz CO, Wondering if 100Hz is better with Devs since they have very good efficiency?
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post #1023 of 1088 Old 01-03-2020, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
Did you flip the phase on one pair of subs? See which pair flipped sounds better...


Juju
I checked in REW when I was setting delay on back subs. With phase inverse, FR looked pretty bad clearly showing that inverting phase on either pair was a bad idea.
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post #1024 of 1088 Old 01-03-2020, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Hmmm I haven't moved Dev there because devs are 30" and I barely can fit Mini Marty there. But I can move center out a bit, and then put Dev and see if it sounds good there with another one on the back. The thing about the front sub is that it has good gain from 20-40Hz and 80-100Hz. 40-80Hz is BADDD like 10dB swing. But together with back subs, it ends up giving very good FR. Front sub fills what back subs lack. In the back of room, even when I had Mini Marty which are tuned to 17Hz, had a drop after 30Hz.



As for EQ, I use Dirac + minidsp 2x4 so I have good flexibility to eq. Generally, I define a custom curve and Dirac does a very good job matching it. I confirm in REW by taking FR and making sure all is looking well.



Is there a preferred EQing for devs in general? Also, I do a 80Hz CO, Wondering if 100Hz is better with Devs since they have very good efficiency?
I guess the question is can you fit the latest 21" version? I like the 80Hz crossover with mine. The v1 would be more pressed for bandwidth than the Mini up top.

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post #1025 of 1088 Old 01-03-2020, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
I guess the question is can you fit the latest 21" version? I like the 80Hz crossover with mine. The v1 would be more pressed for bandwidth than the Mini up top.
latest 21" version? I built mine a couple of months ago. Is there a newer version now?
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post #1026 of 1088 Old 01-03-2020, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
latest 21" version? I built mine a couple of months ago. Is there a newer version now?
It is a compact LFE, @jujuman200 hit on the head with that assessment. It is towards the back end of the Index. I do not have the cut list together yet. The front chamber is setup for a higher compression ratio thus saving a lot of space. Less mid bass, but we do not need that much mid bass for HT duty. Sim is 91 volts, somewhere around 1600 watts. Excursion is around rated Xmax, port velocity right around 30m/s. In my opinion it is the most balanced out of any 21" design about 3 cuft less than a v1 too.

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #1027 of 1088 Old 01-03-2020, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
latest 21" version? I built mine a couple of months ago. Is there a newer version now?
SMH..... tell me about it..... as soon as I finished my Mini... he comes out with V2....


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini Devastator 18" w/460HO, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 1- 21" "Marty" tuned to 20hz, 1- 18" "Marty" tuned to 17Hz
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post #1028 of 1088 Old 01-03-2020, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
I checked in REW when I was setting delay on back subs. With phase inverse, FR looked pretty bad clearly showing that inverting phase on either pair was a bad idea.
Understood....


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini Devastator 18" w/460HO, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 1- 21" "Marty" tuned to 20hz, 1- 18" "Marty" tuned to 17Hz
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html

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post #1029 of 1088 Old 01-04-2020, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
SMH..... tell me about it..... as soon as I finished my Mini... he comes out with V2....


Juju
I feel the same way about this. Now that I have my Minis, I came up with v2s I like better lol.
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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #1030 of 1088 Old 01-05-2020, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
I feel the same way about this. Now that I have my Minis, I came up with v2s I like better lol.
I may update my mini.... Hey... it's only wood.....


Juju
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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini Devastator 18" w/460HO, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 1- 21" "Marty" tuned to 20hz, 1- 18" "Marty" tuned to 17Hz
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post #1031 of 1088 Old 01-05-2020, 12:23 PM
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First I want to say thank you @redfive @LTD02 @a77cj7 for all that help answering questions.
I got a little time yesterday to play with mini devastator. I took a few measurements and have to play with some placement and eq in the next couple weeks. But overall I have to say the devastator has exceeded my expectations so far. It just has this presence of clarity and it's mean. I dont really know how to explain it. But its very enjoyable.

Im sure once I have enough time to get everything aligned and take good measurements it could get a lot better. I will have questions in the coming weeks.

Ian
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post #1032 of 1088 Old 01-05-2020, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmrider07 View Post
First I want to say thank you @redfive @LTD02 @a77cj7 for all that help answering questions.

I got a little time yesterday to play with mini devastator. I took a few measurements and have to play with some placement and eq in the next couple weeks. But overall I have to say the devastator has exceeded my expectations so far. It just has this presence of clarity and it's mean. I dont really know how to explain it. But its very enjoyable.



Im sure once I have enough time to get everything aligned and take good measurements it could get a lot better. I will have questions in the coming weeks.



Ian


Glad you’re enjoying it. It took me a bit to get used to the super clean sound signature, but love it now.

Chris
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post #1033 of 1088 Old 01-12-2020, 08:51 AM
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Great thread guys, I like the idea of having midbass headroom and response down to 20hz in one enclosure. I'm currently looking into purchasing the diysg magnum 12" midbass driver. https://www.diysoundgroup.com/magnum-12.html

@redfive and you guys who like to model. Would this driver work in a small or micro version of the devastator? It seems to have the high bl required.

Thanks.
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post #1034 of 1088 Old 01-13-2020, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Great thread guys, I like the idea of having midbass headroom and response down to 20hz in one enclosure. I'm currently looking into purchasing the diysg magnum 12" midbass driver. https://www.diysoundgroup.com/magnum-12.html

@redfive and you guys who like to model. Would this driver work in a small or micro version of the devastator? It seems to have the high bl required.

Thanks.

This is a 100 watts pushing 9mm of excursion with a 20Hz 2nd order HPF. Native response looks good.



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Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
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post #1035 of 1088 Old 01-13-2020, 09:40 AM
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Thanks @redfive , this is in the mini devastator?
Care to share the hornresp file?
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post #1036 of 1088 Old 01-13-2020, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks @redfive , this is in the mini devastator?
Care to share the hornresp file?

That is the Nano, I do not have the design fully finished yet with cut list etc. It is designed around 12" woofers.
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Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
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post #1037 of 1088 Old 01-13-2020, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by shrub0 View Post
Thanks @redfive , this is in the mini devastator?
Care to share the hornresp file?
Here you go...plenty of Minis to choose from.....The Devastator Index


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini Devastator 18" w/460HO, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 1- 21" "Marty" tuned to 20hz, 1- 18" "Marty" tuned to 17Hz
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html

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post #1038 of 1088 Old 01-13-2020, 12:58 PM
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Thanks again @redfive I look forward to seeing the drawings of the nano. Your screen name reminds me of last evening when I went xc skiing in the dark with snow flying and a headlamp on. It was like an hour of star wars hyper drive.
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post #1039 of 1088 Old 01-14-2020, 03:11 AM
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Thanks @LTD02 for creating this awesome design, and thanks @redfive for creating this thread. It has help me build two dev 21 which I am using along VBSS, two sealed UM18 and pc13 ultra. I couldn't create a proper build thread but took few pictures and nearfiled measurement of both of them. It looks like one of them is bit off but the other one quite matches the model. Must have made some small mistake here and there. But have to say this is a excellent design.








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post #1040 of 1088 Old 01-17-2020, 10:44 AM
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I'm SUPER pleased my DEV duo's and can't wait for next round of sale on SAN 214.50 to stack up and make it a Quad DEVs.
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post #1041 of 1088 Old 01-22-2020, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by automata21 View Post
Thanks @LTD02 for creating this awesome design, and thanks @redfive for creating this thread. It has help me build two dev 21 which I am using along VBSS, two sealed UM18 and pc13 ultra. I couldn't create a proper build thread but took few pictures and nearfiled measurement of both of them. It looks like one of them is bit off but the other one quite matches the model. Must have made some small mistake here and there. But have to say this is a excellent design.


How did you take this reading? Where was mic placed and how far? I'd like to take reading of my Dev V1 to see how they show up
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post #1042 of 1088 Old 01-22-2020, 02:06 PM
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@Red Five , out of all the versions of Devs we have, which one is the smallest in terms of height and depth. V1 sitting on the back with 48" height and 30" depth takes up good amount of space and also gets in the middle of Surround back speakers and side wall. Thinking if I can build something that is closer to height of Mini Marty. Wouldn't mind if its wider since I have more space in that regards.
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post #1043 of 1088 Old 01-22-2020, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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@harrisu Right now I am fond of the Mini Dev 21" HCR, it is a very efficient use of space for getting a more balanced response. The sim is 1600 watts, what you can expect from a bridged 3000D. It is shorter than the V1, wider than the V1, but also more shallow than a V1. V1 = 21.25 cuft Mini 21 HCR = 18.1 cuft.








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Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
How did you take this reading? Where was mic placed and how far? I'd like to take reading of my Dev V1 to see how they show up
Just put mic at center as close to sub as possible so that room doesn’t influence. Not sure if it’s the correct but it matches the design.


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post #1045 of 1088 Old 01-22-2020, 02:46 PM
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[quote=Red Five;59138166] @harrisu Right now I am fond of the Mini Dev 21" HCR, it is a very efficient use of space for getting a more balanced response. The sim is 1600 watts, what you can expect from a bridged 3000D. It is shorter than the V1, wider than the V1, but also more shallow than a V1. V1 = 21.25 cuft Mini 21 HCR = 18.1 cuft.



I'll check when I get home to see how high my surround back speakers are mounted and if 40" will give clearance to side walls.

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Just put mic at center as close to sub as possible so that room doesn’t influence. Not sure if it’s the correct but it matches the design.


@Red Five , your opinion please.
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post #1046 of 1088 Old 01-22-2020, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=harrisu;59138304]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
@harrisu Right now I am fond of the Mini Dev 21" HCR, it is a very efficient use of space for getting a more balanced response. The sim is 1600 watts, what you can expect from a bridged 3000D. It is shorter than the V1, wider than the V1, but also more shallow than a V1. V1 = 21.25 cuft Mini 21 HCR = 18.1 cuft.



I'll check when I get home to see how high my surround back speakers are mounted and if 40" will give clearance to side walls.



@Red Five , your opinion please.

Mic positioning, I would point it at the bottom port board maybe an inch or two off of it and level with the port board. That should give you pretty equal distance for upper and lower frequency sources. I forgot what Kyle did to get the best result. As is I would expect the measurement to be more mid heavy.

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
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post #1047 of 1088 Old 01-22-2020, 02:58 PM
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Mic positioning, I would point it at the bottom port board maybe an inch or two off of it and level with the port board. That should give you pretty equal distance for upper and lower frequency sources. I forgot what Kyle did to get the best result. As is I would expect the measurement to be more mid heavy.

I had my mic pointed right at the port/horn divider when I measured mine, showed right on model.

Chris
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post #1048 of 1088 Old 01-22-2020, 03:19 PM
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@a77cj7 @Red Five Which position it will be considering my sub at that position red or green color in picture with head of mic being the arrow. Also would i need to change the calibration file of mic if the orientation changes

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post #1049 of 1088 Old 01-22-2020, 03:22 PM
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@a77cj7 @Red Five Which position it will be considering my sub at that position red or green color in picture with head of mic being the arrow. Also would i need to change the calibration file of mic if the orientation changes





I had mine closer to red, but angled on its tripod.

Chris
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post #1050 of 1088 Old 01-22-2020, 07:16 PM
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@a77cj7 @Red Five Which position it will be considering my sub at that position red or green color in picture with head of mic being the arrow. Also would i need to change the calibration file of mic if the orientation changes





Since I was doing some REW work on my HST’s anyway, took a measurement and pic for ya.

Mic position:


Actual to model:

Red is actual, Purple is model.

Chris
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