Devastator an LTD02 hybrid design - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 230 Old 05-19-2019, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I should have gotten to this sooner, version 1 vs LFE version.
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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #182 of 230 Old 05-19-2019, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
I should have gotten to this sooner, version 1 vs LFE version.
Lfe version definitely looks better and smoother

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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post #183 of 230 Old 05-19-2019, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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It does look a lot better. The compromise, displacement and 3mm of excursion over tune. Even with the added excursion it should be able to take 1500 watts and 1500 watts is 125db @ 20Hz. The cut list will hopefully get done soon

Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #184 of 230 Old 05-20-2019, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Devastator LFE

More ridiculous and maybe even excessive bass External Dimensions 48"x25.5"x42". LFE V2, now with acceptable rear port air velocity! One half inch was added to the rear chamber port bringing velocity in check. Response on the front horn was minimally effected. The design is optimized for 1500 watts of power. More power can be applied, but air velocity and excursion might go off the rails! Check out the graphs Tune is calculated at a hair over 19hz. The LFE is pushing excursion max from about 25Hz to 30Hz, so response is down a small amount from the v1. I am adding the 16Hz tune version because massive extension, just add 12.75" to the port!



























Spoiler!
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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #185 of 230 Old 05-20-2019, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
Lfe version definitely looks better and smoother

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I do not have the chart handy for your 18Sound 21" in the LFE cabinet, but the response looks really good still.

Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #186 of 230 Old 05-20-2019, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
More ridiculous and maybe even excessive bass
Isn't there an automatic suspension from AVSforum for ever referring to an amount of bass as "excessive?"

This thing is massive. I'm pretty sure my wife would divorce me if I put one in our media room. It looks awesome though.

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post #187 of 230 Old 05-20-2019, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue View Post
Isn't there an automatic suspension from AVSforum for ever referring to an amount of bass as "excessive?"

This thing is massive. I'm pretty sure my wife would divorce me if I put one in our media room. It looks awesome though.

That is true, subs abound in this section of AVS and that statement could be consider sacrilege


It maybe large, but it is efficient at turning power into bass. I am running an 8 Ohm load, so this makes more sense to me since wood is cheaper than amplifiers that dump 2000 watts into 8 Ohms and I have the space.

Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #188 of 230 Old 05-20-2019, 06:20 PM
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iirs,
a full Marty is 24 x 24 x 48

Devi is 24 x 30 x 48

only about 25% more volume
and uses a 21"!

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post #189 of 230 Old 05-20-2019, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
iirs,

a full Marty is 24 x 24 x 48



Devi is 24 x 30 x 48



only about 25% more volume

and uses a 21"!
The big version comes in much larger 48x25.5x42. In exchange for adding what is almost the size of a mini Marty, you get a higher left corner
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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #190 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 02:55 AM
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Damn, the LFE version is a hair bit larger over the lilwrecker.
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post #191 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 03:05 AM
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Man. My rear subs sit in an opening that’s 48 X 26 X 48” deep. Very tempting. I could swap the hst’s out for the larger devastator. It would be hidden under the stairs.
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post #192 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
Man. My rear subs sit in an opening that’s 48 X 26 X 48” deep. Very tempting. I could swap the hst’s out for the larger devastator. It would be hidden under the stairs.
The nice thing about them is they hide the driver, so no accidental kicking in of a cone. If you went with the monster you could put a cushion on it and turn it into the hottest bass seat in the house GSG will be coming out with the Devastator v1 relatively soon. They are expecting good things from it with the response curve. Edit: misread the dimensions, yeah the big guy would fit in there without making it a bass bench
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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #193 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
The nice thing about them is they hide the driver, so no accidental kicking in of a cone. If you went with the monster you could put a cushion on it and turn it into the hottest bass seat in the house GSG will be coming out with the Devastator v1 relatively soon. They are expecting good things from it with the response curve. Edit: misread the dimensions, yeah the big guy would fit in there without making it a bass bench


I’ve used the rear subs as extreme nearfield experience. Lol
If I was to build the lfe version, I’d need to see a spl graph of the one LFE devastator vs. my two hst’s that are there currently.
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post #194 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
I’ve used the rear subs as extreme nearfield experience. Lol
If I was to build the lfe version, I’d need to see a spl graph of the one LFE devastator vs. my two hst’s that are there currently.

Which HST 18 are they? Do you have TS specs? They might have enough motor force to work in a Devastator

Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #195 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Which HST 18 are they? Do you have TS specs? They might have enough motor force to work in a Devastator


I can get them. They’re the version 1 hst’s
If I do the build, it’s gonna be for the B&C 21.
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post #196 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
I can get them. They’re the version 1 hst’s
If I do the build, it’s gonna be for the B&C 21.

We can sim it anyways for scientific reasons

Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #197 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 05:56 AM
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Devastator an LTD02 hybrid design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
We can sim it anyways for scientific reasons


Ok! I’ll copy paste the specs.
This should be close enough

Last edited by Jk7.2; 05-21-2019 at 06:06 AM.
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post #198 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Spoiler!



Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. The peaks are getting very pronounced, it would take a lot of EQ, so a 21" looks a lot better.



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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #199 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 07:01 AM
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I’d love to see how two of my hst in full Martys compare to 1 devastator lfe with the B&C 21
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post #200 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
I’d love to see how two of my hst in full Martys compare to 1 devastator lfe with the B&C 21

This is the one watt comparison. Scale things up to figure out where they land. Short story, the Devastator will take the mid bass crown. However, the HSTs will take the low end if fed adequate power. They have an excursion advantage and you have a larger cone area than a single 21". Edit: @Jk7.2 I had to update this graph, since voltage is calculated on Re not nominal it is much closer on the bottom end, but mostly the same story in the mid bass.
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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #201 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
This is the one watt comparison. Scale things up to figure out where they land. Short story, the Devastator will take the mid bass crown.


Looks like the Devestator also cures the issue with port resonance.
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post #202 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
This is the one watt comparison. Scale things up to figure out where they land. Short story, the Devastator will take the mid bass crown. However, the HSTs will take the low end if fed adequate power. They have an excursion advantage and you have a larger cone area than a single 21".




Thanks for doing this. Yeah, it makes it hard. I love what I have, but always wonder ‘what if’?
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post #203 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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The outputs from each piece of the design complement each other nicely. Which gives a pass band that is pretty great



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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #204 of 230 Old 05-21-2019, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks @LTD02 for answering my question on why my excursion sim looks off. Power is calculated on Re, not nominal impedance! Here is a comparison that is pushing each cabinet right to 20mm of excursion based on the simulation. The v1 has more in the mid bass regions once you get over 30Hz. The LFE has more under 30hz and in the upper teens, so deciding on compromises. I think the excursion numbers are higher than actual, especially after going back and fourth with WinISD. There might be more wiggle room for power.

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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #205 of 230 Old 05-23-2019, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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The LFE version has been update

See post here.

Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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post #206 of 230 Old 05-24-2019, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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This is a nice looking curve (it has curve appeal), it is just adding 12.75" to the port on LFE version. I am most likely going this route Tune comes out to calculated 16.2Hz
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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen

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post #207 of 230 Old 05-24-2019, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
This is a nice looking curve (it has curve appeal), it is just adding 12.75" to the port on LFE
That output graph looks amazing... Would I be able to expect something similar if I were to repurpose my um-18 currently in a Full Marty into the devastator v2?

It sounds like building a cabinet for a horn is a lot more difficult than what my Marty was. The detail in the first post for a v1 is great. Will that level of detail be provided for the v2? Trying to determine if I have the capability to build this or not.

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post #208 of 230 Old 05-24-2019, 08:02 AM
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That output graph looks amazing... Would I be able to expect something similar if I were to repurpose my um-18 currently in a Full Marty into the devastator v2?

It sounds like building a cabinet for a horn is a lot more difficult than what my Marty was. The detail in the first post for a v1 is great. Will that level of detail be provided for the v2? Trying to determine if I have the capability to build this or not.

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If you can build a ported box you can build one of these. That's what's great about these you get some of the benefits of a tapered or front loaded horn with out the complexity of building them. I believe the layout will be the same just bigger panels I know he put a cut list up

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post #209 of 230 Old 05-24-2019, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately the UM18 is not a workable driver in this cab. Huge peaks, big valley. 21DS115 HD's 18sound 21" is the next best. The Lavoce 21 I would have to model, it might be the cheapest way in if it works.
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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #210 of 230 Old 05-24-2019, 09:38 AM
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Good to know.. thank you!

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Equipment: Yamaha 3050, Oppo 103d, PSA mt 110s (L,C,R), Polk tsi200 (SR/L), 2 VBSS, FullMarty, 4 driver BOSS build, umik-1, Epson 3700
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