Devastator an LTD02 hybrid design - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 268 Old 07-11-2019, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
I couldn’t go to that height. I can prob swing a bit wider but out of curiosity how flexible is the build. I have a good spot for a sub but I think it would require a Marty as it would be 17” deep 25ish inches tall and up to like 72” wide.


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The height or width if it is on its side effects the length of the resonator, which really effects the response. Short gets more efficient at higher frequencies longer has less efficiency, but the efficiency shows up lower in the response. I would have to model and do some math. The sweet spot for cross sectional area is around 225in² to 230². The cross sectional area also effects the shape of the response.

Height is pretty variable. The resonator like a vent has a opening that is represented by the cross sectional area. Like a port it can take on different shapes, squares and rectangles etc. 225in² is 225in² square or rectangular as an example. You need to leave enough depth though for the sub to fit in the back chamber, so about 11 inches.

I really need to make a quick video sometime on how to model this in Hornresp.

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post #242 of 268 Old 07-11-2019, 05:55 PM
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Low end will be close to your current mini marty, but once you get over 30Hz that is when things start to change, not much will stick with it once you get into the mid bass. Can you go 60.5Hx30Wx28D? That thing becomes a beast north of 20Hz to 80Hz.


Out of curiosity have you done a write up? I’ve got some time tomorrow and wouldn’t mind running a few models to really see which way I should go. Still debating between this or a dual 18” Marty build. All in all not bad problems to have. Really can’t go wrong


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post #243 of 268 Old 07-11-2019, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
Out of curiosity have you done a write up? I’ve got some time tomorrow and wouldn’t mind running a few models to really see which way I should go. Still debating between this or a dual 18” Marty build. All in all not bad problems to have. Really can’t go wrong


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I do not have a write up. It has a crazy learning curve, so you have to stick with it. I pounded at it for days trying to get a good grasp. Read some of the help file, a lot of good info. Look towards the bottom left when hovering over fields. Clicking and double clicking on fields brings up options. It simulates how the sound waves interact with the enclosure boundaries. When you get a grip on that you can do more fun stuff.

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post #244 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 06:33 AM
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I tried giving Modeling a go but man you are right. Very confusing. Following alone with a couple post and trying to piece stuff together I generated this graph for the Design using the Lavoce SAN214.50. I dont think it is correct. Slope seems to be off.
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post #245 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
I tried giving Modeling a go but man you are right. Very confusing. Following alone with a couple post and trying to piece stuff together I generated this graph for the Design using the Lavoce SAN214.50. I dont think it is correct. Slope seems to be off.
What does your input window look like? Did you take the t/s specs double click on Sd and input them?

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post #246 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 07:38 AM
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What does your input window look like? Did you take the t/s specs double click on Sd and input them?


Here are some snaps on the input parameters. I’m sure I’ve messed them up some how just not quite sure what I missed.




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post #247 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 08:24 AM
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Main reason for me trying to learn how to use the software is I want to blend the devastator and the submaximus. The submaximus is a bit too big for me to lay flat and fit in my space. I need it to be 68” long and then work to minimize the depth and height to whatever is reasonable.


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post #248 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
Main reason for me trying to learn how to use the software is I want to blend the devastator and the submaximus. The submaximus is a bit too big for me to lay flat and fit in my space. I need it to be 68” long and then work to minimize the depth and height to whatever is reasonable.


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Pull the specs off PE for the 214.50 and then click on Le until it turns red for enabling the large voice coil option. Then see what it looks like. The inputs for the box look good.

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post #249 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some snaps on the input parameters. I’m sure I’ve messed them up some how just not quite sure what I missed.




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When changing the box height you would mess with S2-S3 length that is currently 80cm, it is the distance from the center of the driver to the end of the mouth of the front horn. As it gets longer the response moves down. I added about a foot for BMD. Now the 1451cm² can be tweaked as well, 1400 to 1500cm² seems to be the sweet spot. That is the inside diameter of the front chamber with the rails taken out, so 22.5”x10”.

The horn opening is equal to the depth of the chamber, in this case it is 10" so the horn opening is 10". The Devastator is pretty easy to tweak into a space.

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post #250 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
When changing the box height you would mess with S2-S3 length that is currently 80cm, it is the distance from the center of the driver to the end of the mouth of the front horn. As it gets longer the response moves down. I added about a foot for BMD. Now the 1451cm² can be tweaked as well, 1400 to 1500cm² seems to be the sweet spot. That is the inside diameter of the front chamber with the rails taken out, so 22.5”x10”.

The horn opening is equal to the depth of the chamber, in this case it is 10" so the horn opening is 10". The Devastator is pretty easy to tweak into a space.


Thanks a ton for all the information. Not going to lie a lot is over my head but as I do more and more reading it is starting to make a little more sense. One major question I have is would it be more beneficial to tweak the devastator to my dimensions or tweak the submaximus to a little smaller (subminimus lol)


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post #251 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Thanks a ton for all the information. Not going to lie a lot is over my head but as I do more and more reading it is starting to make a little more sense. One major question I have is would it be more beneficial to tweak the devastator to my dimensions or tweak the submaximus to a little smaller (subminimus lol)


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Tweaking submax will be wading into deep waters lol

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post #252 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 01:02 PM
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Tweaking submax will be wading into deep waters lol


Haha oh I know. No way I would go at it alone. Just didn’t know if it’s something you or @LTD02 have ventured into or wanted to lol


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post #253 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha oh I know. No way I would go at it alone. Just didn’t know if it’s something you or @LTD02 have ventured into or wanted to lol


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Josh mentioned on the G Horn folding it to fit in a specific form factor is not the path he would go down now. There is a lot of back and forth between the sim and your design. If it needs to be a very specific space sticking with the non flared resonator might be a better bet.

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post #254 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 03:03 PM
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Josh mentioned on the G Horn folding it to fit in a specific form factor is not the path he would go down now. There is a lot of back and forth between the sim and your design. If it needs to be a very specific space sticking with the non flared resonator might be a better bet.


Oh I know while I wouldn’t mind doing it I totally get the work behind it. I wouldn’t want to make it specific to me as that wouldn’t benefit the masses and that’s what should be done. I only meant that is there was a smaller version of the submaximus then I’m sure it would gain a lot of popularity.


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post #255 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 03:07 PM
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The Ghorn was refolded a few years back into the LOWARHORN

that work of @LTD02 and @jpmst3 ( he build the first one)
and

optimized for the UXL 18, iirc,
i still have 1 of the 2 I built . .

and the spare cab in good shape

decidedly beastly . . .

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post #256 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh I know while I wouldn’t mind doing it I totally get the work behind it. I wouldn’t want to make it specific to me as that wouldn’t benefit the masses and that’s what should be done. I only meant that is there was a smaller version of the submaximus then I’m sure it would gain a lot of popularity.


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You can also play around with these http://diysubwoofers.org/sheets/

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post #257 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
You can also play around with these http://diysubwoofers.org/sheets/


Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
The Ghorn was refolded a few years back into the LOWARHORN



that work of @LTD02 and @jpmst3 ( he build the first one)

and



optimized for the UXL 18, iirc,

i still have 1 of the 2 I built . .



and the spare cab in good shape



decidedly beastly . . .


Thanks guys for the input. Since this is my third build and each time I go a little bigger I really want to make sure that this is the last build (at least for a bit) and I get everything I would want out of it. The response of the submax is outstanding and even if I could get closer to that with the lower frequencies I would be thrilled. The devastator is almost everything I want just want to also want it to dig a little deeper. I won’t have the option for BOSS platforms or anything like that.


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post #258 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Thanks guys for the input. Since this is my third build and each time I go a little bigger I really want to make sure that this is the last build (at least for a bit) and I get everything I would want out of it. The response of the submax is outstanding and even if I could get closer to that with the lower frequencies I would be thrilled. The devastator is almost everything I want just want to also want it to dig a little deeper. I won’t have the option for BOSS platforms or anything like that.


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Just note on this. When you get below 66% of the drivers Fs the efficiency starts to drop quickly. Sub max has such a long path that it is deep and still stays efficient. If you want deep and that efficient you are not getting any smaller. Moving the tune up some will let you shrink the box some and stay efficient.

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post #259 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Just note on this. When you get below 66% of the drivers Fs the efficiency starts to drop quickly. Sub max has such a long path that it is deep and still stays efficient. If you want deep and that efficient you are not getting any smaller. Moving the tune up some will let you shrink the box some and stay efficient.


Yeah I knew I would lose some of the low end to maintain efficiency but wanted to salvage as much as I could that’s pretty much why I want to find the balance between the submax and devastator in a room friends shape lol. I know I can be done it’s just a matter of developing the knowledge to try and do so.


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post #260 of 268 Old 07-13-2019, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I knew I would lose some of the low end to maintain efficiency but wanted to salvage as much as I could that’s pretty much why I want to find the balance between the submax and devastator in a room friends shape lol. I know I can be done it’s just a matter of developing the knowledge to try and do so.


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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...bass-horn.html

Here is a good starting point.
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post #261 of 268 Old 08-07-2019, 11:48 AM
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I know this is crazy but for my very first diy build I have decided to build a Devastator. I have couple of question to ask:
1. Looking at the building list Red Five had for his Stormbreaker build https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...-solution.html - do I need an Impact driver? What “long straight edge level is handy for a circular saw guide” do you recommend?
2. How does one know what size/diameter of the hole (lavoce san214.50) to cut for the subwoofer baffle?
3. What instrument do you use to make a drawing circle for the baffle?
4. Can i just use Titebond II to put together the Devastator or do I also need brad nailer?…please remember I’m a newbie at diy, I’m going to go really slow with this build and take my time.
5. Stupid question here…does one use a jigsaw to cut out part of the bracing directly in front of the driver show below?

If so, how deep should the cut be on the bracing?
6. Does one need mattress pads/stuffing or lining in the Devastator?
7. Will these 3 sheets of mdf good enough for one Devastator?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/MDF-Pane...000A/202332600
8. Will these five 2”x4’s good enough?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/2-in-x-4...1640/202091220

Thanks,
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post #262 of 268 Old 08-07-2019, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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@femi



1. An impact driver is not necessary, if you are using a lot of screws which would be considered optional it is very handy. When using MDF do not forget you need to run pilot holes that are roughly 80% of the diameter of the threads of the screw you are using. I found an aluminum 48 inch ruler that I was planning on using as a guide. You cut across the sheets first instead of up and down so the ruler will reach.

2/3. From PE (no harm rounding to 20 inches) I spent the money on a carpenter compass, because I botched the first hole without it. I think it was around $10 on Amazon. Just make sure it has a radius bigger than 10" if you pick one up. Triple check measurements for the cutout. As an example if you are 1/16th" off on measuring the radius, it turns into an 1/8th" off on the diameter.
Mounting Information

  • Overall Outside Diameter21.54"
  • Baffle Cutout Diameter19.97"
  • Depth10.19"
  • Bolt Circle Diameter20.67"
  • # Mounting Holes8
4. A brad nail gun is optional, but it can help speed up the process of assembly. Titebond II can be used, but it does not fill voids as well as PL3X. John LTD02 has tested the strength of the PL3X, it is strong than the 2x4"s it attached. You will want to pick up a few F clamps 36" or better. I have a few C clamps and also Irwin handi clamps for holding things in place. Just remember it needs to be air tight. If you are going slow a lot of clamps is a good path to take.

5. The cutout would be done with a jigsaw on those front rails. 1 inch deep is perfect. Check the LFE, I have the length of the cuts and the distance offset from the top of the rail in there if I recall.

6. Dampening material is not called for. The design is really meant to crossover at a maximum of 100Hz.

7. Since the size of sheets have shrunk you will need three sheets now of the material listed above.

8. You can use those 2x4"s, just make sure they do not have a whole lot of bow in them. If they are all really bowed there are 2x4" studs that are more expensive that are meant for cabinet walls where you really want straight lumber. They are jointed together and not one continuous piece of wood which could be useful for the long vertical braces in the back.

9. Starting a build thread and asking questions as you go along is a good strategy



-John
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post #263 of 268 Old 08-07-2019, 02:05 PM
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Hey femi I sent my number again give me a call I can talk you through the whole thing

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post #264 of 268 Old 08-08-2019, 04:37 AM
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Hey femi I sent my number again give me a call I can talk you through the whole thing

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Thanks Jeremy, I will definitely give you a call one of these days, just being really busy.

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Femi

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post #265 of 268 Old 08-15-2019, 06:56 AM
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I have couple of PA460s lying around and can't resist myself to build this to see how this design would work out with an inexpensive driver like PA460.



How would one PA460 in a devastator compare with multiple VBSS cabs, if we can get the charts to compare the spl. Somewhere in another thread I read putting PA460 in a bandpass is not a good idea, and sound would be horrible, not sure about that.

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post #266 of 268 Old 08-15-2019, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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1w1m comparison between the VBSS and the Devastator. Usual doubling of cones and power should come close to additional 6db of output.
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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #267 of 268 Old 08-15-2019, 02:34 PM
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1w1m comparison between the VBSS and the Devastator. Usual doubling of cones and power should come close to additional 6db of output.
So is it safe to say 2 pa460 in 2 vbss cabs = 1pa460 in a devastator
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post #268 of 268 Old 08-15-2019, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rcris View Post
So is it safe to say 2 pa460 in 2 vbss cabs = 1pa460 in a devastator
Mid bass yes, it is close to two VBSS subs. Lows are more reliant on cone area, two VBSS would have an edge.

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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