DIY Fusion-10 Pure - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 20 Old 12-09-2018, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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DIY Fusion-10 Pure

Started looking at these under closeouts a couple months ago. I was thinking of replacing the rear surrounds currently in use, some Bose 201 speakers given to me a while ago. For home theater, the Bose do OK. They are not really noticeable, though, watching a movie. Unfortunately, the location for the rear surrounds is about 10 feet up on a wall behind the listening positions on the living room where the TV is located. Part of the reason for creating a new post is to let folks on here know the Fusion-10 Pure is currently listed as a closeout on the DIY sound group web site. The woofer has to be bought seperately. A quick ebay search shows a wholesale seller on there who lists the Eminence Delta 10A for $66. It says 57 left currently as I write this.

Part of the reason for the Fusion 10 is high sensitivity and good response over a wide listening angle from the speaker axis. Given the less than ideal position, these seem like a good choice.

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post #2 of 20 Old 12-10-2018, 06:33 AM
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you will be happy with them..I love mine...

Receiver : Pioneer Elite SC-95
Front Speakers: 3 DIYSG 1099's
Surround Speakers:2 DIYSG Volt 10's Atmos: 2 DIYSG Volt 6's
Subwoofers: Dual Dayton HO 18's in Cyclops enclosures w/Inuke 6000 DSP
Nearfield: 2 Dayton HO 15's + MBM: 2 PA 460's (VBSS) w/Inuke 6000DSP
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post #3 of 20 Old 12-10-2018, 08:35 AM
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The fusion 10s are great speakers for the price. I use them for my front soundstage and honestly they are the first speaker I've owned that I haven't once asked myself "what if?" and thought about upgrading them.

They get loud, they remain clean, and have great on and off axis performance. Your ears will tap out long before the speakers will distort. It's a win/win.
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post #4 of 20 Old 12-12-2018, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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@chadsmith013 and @STL D - Thanks!
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post #5 of 20 Old 12-13-2018, 01:14 PM
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@chadsmith013 and @STL D - Thanks!
Always happy to help.
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post #6 of 20 Old 12-13-2018, 01:44 PM
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In the absence of HTM 8's ,

these seem to "ballpark" wrt price range ,

maybe some good EQ could get them well into mid-bass range

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post #7 of 20 Old 12-13-2018, 02:09 PM
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I bought 3 fusion 10s and have no complaints. They must be used with a sub. For home theater I've loved them. For music they are good but they need a subwoofer. I'm listening to a CD on my mirage m290 right now, no sub, and they do music better then fusion 10s on their own. The fusion' 10s dont dig that deep. Super clear though.
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post #8 of 20 Old 12-13-2018, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought 3 fusion 10s and have no complaints. They must be used with a sub. For home theater I've loved them. For music they are good but they need a subwoofer. I'm listening to a CD on my mirage m290 right now, no sub, and they do music better then fusion 10s on their own. The fusion' 10s dont dig that deep. Super clear though.
Got two 18 inch Ficar SSD neo subs driven by a iNuke6k.

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post #9 of 20 Old 12-14-2018, 05:18 AM
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Then yes, you will enjoy them. I bought mine used and for the price I paid ill basically never upgrade. Only reason I would upgrade is if I find a different use for the fusion 10's which right now theres nothing in the future.

- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -

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post #10 of 20 Old 12-15-2018, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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@chadsmith013 and @STL D - Thanks!
All parts have arrived. Eminence woofers bought on sale from ebay still in factory boxes:-)

@chadsmith013 and @STL D What size did you guys make your cabinets?

Ah, never mind. I double checked the DIY web site and under specifications I originally overlooked

Dimensions: 12.5" W x 20" H x 12" D

DOH!

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post #11 of 20 Old 12-15-2018, 05:10 PM
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Enjoy them Bebb!

I've been using my Fusion 10's for going on three years and have no complaints--I'm content. The reason I chose them was they were the smallest speakers with the SEOS horn and had 98dB 1w/1m efficiency. Throw in they go down into the mid 50's range, I can crossover to subs to 60Hz if I ever need to. (I cross them at 80Hz with no issues) They were my first DIYSG speaker so if I didn't really like them for the front stage, I could modify them for surround use--but I really liked them so all is well. My center channel is an 88 Special and they blend well--no problems. At this point, I am running a basic living room system so AVR power is all that is required to get reference without the AVR breathing hard. Say in the future, I have a full basement and want two rows--easy to strap on some amps and I'll be able to get the SPL requirements for that also. If I inheret a cathedral, then I'll need monster mains and use the F10's for surrounds--I can scale the system from mild to insane and always have a use for the Fusion 10's. No complaints there!

I built my cabinets out of 3/4" birch ply and made a double baffle with the MDF bezel. Used the stock measurments but ended up at 12.75" deep--my wife has not complained so I dodged that bullet.

In summation, the F10 is a great speaker in that you get the wonderful 10" SEOS horn, a very high efficiency 10" beefy midwoofer in a total package that is under 2 cubic feet in external measurements. I'd call it a win! Enjoy your build, take your time with it and make extra popcorn.
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post #12 of 20 Old 12-15-2018, 05:50 PM
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Enjoy them Bebb!

I've been using my Fusion 10's for going on three years and have no complaints--I'm content. The reason I chose them was they were the smallest speakers with the SEOS horn and had 98dB 1w/1m efficiency. Throw in they go down into the mid 50's range, I can crossover to subs to 60Hz if I ever need to. (I cross them at 80Hz with no issues) They were my first DIYSG speaker so if I didn't really like them for the front stage, I could modify them for surround use--but I really liked them so all is well. My center channel is an 88 Special and they blend well--no problems. At this point, I am running a basic living room system so AVR power is all that is required to get reference without the AVR breathing hard. Say in the future, I have a full basement and want two rows--easy to strap on some amps and I'll be able to get the SPL requirements for that also. If I inheret a cathedral, then I'll need monster mains and use the F10's for surrounds--I can scale the system from mild to insane and always have a use for the Fusion 10's. No complaints there!

I built my cabinets out of 3/4" birch ply and made a double baffle with the MDF bezel. Used the stock measurments but ended up at 12.75" deep--my wife has not complained so I dodged that bullet.

In summation, the F10 is a great speaker in that you get the wonderful 10" SEOS horn, a very high efficiency 10" beefy midwoofer in a total package that is under 2 cubic feet in external measurements. I'd call it a win! Enjoy your build, take your time with it and make extra popcorn.
Maybe you might be able to answer this given that you own them -

How do these compare to traditional speakers, without taking cost into account?

Very often I'll see DIY speakers hailed, but with qualifiers - like amazing VALUE or great FOR THE PRICE.

How do these Fusion 10's compare to Hi-Fi speakers when not compared in relation to price?

The reason I ask is I'm very seriously considering some Goldenear Triton 1's, or the Tekton DI. These 2 particular speakers get really great reviews but not necessarily in comparison to something else - whereas DIY speakers seem to be judged by their relative value, not how they sound as a speaker.

I have my eye on the fusion 15's. I'm certain that they're very good speakers, but are they as good as speakers made by professionals, like the Goldenear's?
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post #13 of 20 Old 12-15-2018, 06:21 PM
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"I have my eye on the fusion 15's. I'm certain that they're very good speakers, but are they as good as speakers made by professionals"

define " professionals"

You can maybe still buy a flatpack, designed and CNC'd by folks motivated by covering costs and running a business
you can get the xo's assembled and tested for you , by folks putting their reputation "out there" based on their ability to produce verifiable results
and
you can even probably get someone to do the cab make-up / stuffing . . a nominally competent carpenter

Without knowing the full audio related biography, training, education, of each of the contributors to the total package,

I'd be hesitant to say they weren't "professional"

even moreso, they get a product out there that doesn't have to cover costs of marketing, executives and all the rest of the rigamarole

is your current president 'professional"?
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post #14 of 20 Old 12-15-2018, 06:43 PM
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I have my eye on the fusion 15's. I'm certain that they're very good speakers, but are they as good as speakers made by professionals, like the Goldenear's?
I've not heard the Goldenears, so can't give comparisons there. But the Fusions et al are designed by professionals, so all the components provided with the kits work ideally together in the given box designs.

Regardless of who made them, the only person that can tell you if one speaker sounds better than another is you. If you haven't heard any of the speakers in question I suggest doing so. A very large number of forum members would be happy to demo their speakers for you, be they "professionally" built or DIY.

ETA: And understand that a set of speakers in someone else's room may not sound the same in your setup. Best to listen to prospective speakers in your own room (which would be more difficult in the DIY situation unless you take the plunge).
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post #15 of 20 Old 12-15-2018, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
"I have my eye on the fusion 15's. I'm certain that they're very good speakers, but are they as good as speakers made by professionals"

define " professionals"

You can maybe still buy a flatpack, designed and CNC'd by folks motivated by covering costs and running a business
you can get the xo's assembled and tested for you , by folks putting their reputation "out there" based on their ability to produce verifiable results
and
you can even probably get someone to do the cab make-up / stuffing . . a nominally competent carpenter

Without knowing the full audio related biography, training, education, of each of the contributors to the total package,

I'd be hesitant to say they weren't "professional"

even moreso, they get a product out there that doesn't have to cover costs of marketing, executives and all the rest of the rigamarole

is your current president 'professional"?
I'm Canadian, but I understand what you're getting at. What I meant by my question was whether or not DIY from DIYSG, for example, was an actual, serious competitor to the companies I mentioned or if it needed qualifiers to be put into perspective. Is it amazing? Or is it amazing given it's price?


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Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
I've not heard the Goldenears, so can't give comparisons there. But the Fusions et al are designed by professionals, so all the components provided with the kits work ideally together in the given box designs.

Regardless of who made them, the only person that can tell you if one speaker sounds better than another is you. If you haven't heard any of the speakers in question I suggest doing so. A very large number of forum members would be happy to demo their speakers for you, be they "professionally" built or DIY.

ETA: And understand that a set of speakers in someone else's room may not sound the same in your setup. Best to listen to prospective speakers in your own room (which would be more difficult in the DIY situation unless you take the plunge).
I'd really love to demo some of these speakers but it's difficult because of my location. I looked up Goldenear retailers in my area and there were only 2 that I could find, each hours away and inaccessible to me. I regularly check the Classified's page to see if there are any Montreal based listings but this just doesn't seem to be very popular near me!
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post #16 of 20 Old 12-15-2018, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by domdomdom01 View Post
I'm Canadian, but I understand what you're getting at. What I meant by my question was whether or not DIY from DIYSG, for example, was an actual, serious competitor to the companies I mentioned or if it needed qualifiers to be put into perspective. Is it amazing? Or is it amazing given it's price?




I'd really love to demo some of these speakers but it's difficult because of my location. I looked up Goldenear retailers in my area and there were only 2 that I could find, each hours away and inaccessible to me. I regularly check the Classified's page to see if there are any Montreal based listings but this just doesn't seem to be very popular near me!
Golden Ear R1 advantages: Sleek sexy look, higher WAF. Able to play down into the 30hz area (their 14hz printed spec is a joke) which is nice if you don't have dedicated subs. EMIT tweeter sounds nice. You get a 5 year warranty. Nice speaker for listening to pop, Jazz, vocal, classical music at moderate levels. No need for speaker stands. Sweet, warm, musical sound.

Golden Ear disadvantages: $5K usd per pair . If you are running dedicated subs, you are not going to need the low frequencies that these speakers can produce. Much less efficient than a Fusion 15, meaning your amp will run out of steam quicker. Much higher chance of blowing a tweeter or midrange on a dynamic movie passage with the Golden Ear. Need to be positioned out in the room for best sound. Can sound strained at high volumes.

Fusion 15 advantages: Cost a fraction of the Golden Ears. Extremely efficient and dynamic, they will sound great with a Japanese receiver like Yamaha or Marantz. Better speaker for Movies, Rock music, Country, Big Band, Orchestral. The compression tweeter/waveguide combo will give you wider horizontal coverage which helps with multiple seating positions. Can be flush mounted in a baffle wall, placed on a stand or on a shelf. You can finish them in any color or style you like. Drivers are more durable than Golden Ear.

Fusion 15 disadvantages: You have to spend time building them. Not as easy to audition. Not as sexy looking as a Golden Ear. Needs to be paired up with a subwoofer for full range sound. Needs some type of stand to get them to proper listening height.

Ultimately, it comes down to your wants and needs. Are the speakers going in a dedicated media room or will they be set up in the family room? How much movie/TV will you be watching vs music listening? What type of music do you prefer? Do you plan on using a subwoofer? How important are looks?
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post #17 of 20 Old 12-16-2018, 10:32 AM
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Maybe you might be able to answer this given that you own them -

How do these compare to traditional speakers, without taking cost into account?
Good question!

I call them a very high efficiency theater speaker with an accurate frequency response with smooth directivity through the crossover point to have a smooth transisition between the drivers. This allows for a wide horizontal dispersion on/off axis so the 4 people listening on my large couch have no problems hearing everything in the movie.

I've been building audio systems for many years, started out in car audio as a way to hammer reality in me that dispersion is key in a bad acoustic environment. Went on with PA aystems and rapidly learned that I needed two types of speakers to have a fighting chance to get reasonable sound quality depending on the room. The larger the mains, the narrower dispersion worked best so the smooth floors didn't turn the show into an echo chamber. The show starts in an hour, the floors are tile and you have two types of speakers and EQ...and measuring equipment--getter done!

I know the battle about "HT speakers" VS "music speakers" and it shouldn't matter etc. In reality, a home theater speaker has to meet the demands of a great PA speaker which is tougher to do than a music speaker. In PA design, you have to nail the spoken word--the public address part is critical. Humans are very sensitive to any oddities in the spoken word, our brains and experience teach us to really key in to what is being said and so on as a survival thing. You screw up that part, the entire crowd knows of your failure with no measurements required! Home theater is the same thing, movies are about speech for the most part so is priority #1 . After that, it moves to bass response and HT is much, much harder than music because you have to get deep bass response right. Fighting a 56 foot long 20Hz wave in a typical room is much harder than a 28 foot long 40Hz wave. This is very obvious when throwing a test tone in and walking around the room--the deeper you go the more problems you have with the room (unless your room is a barn sized monster)

The really tough thing about HT is the recording is done by certain specifications, you generally won't get contra bassoons, pipe organs or cannon fire in a music cut (unless you listen to classical) You generally won't see a 20 to 30dB dynamic range (unless you listen to classical) but that rarity in music is standard in movies! There are web sites that show you the dymanic range of musical recordings, they are generally around 13dB of dynamic range for pop recordings, some go down to only 6dB and others might hit over 17dB of dynamic range. Movies easily hit 25 to 28dB of dynamic range so count on the HT speakers to be stressed to 10dB higher than music speakers in real world use. Going by just power, you'll "need" 10 times the power for HT over music at the same AVERAGE sound level. No problem, just look at the specs for maximum SPL on consumer speakers--look at the chart and check for compression at maximum levels and go. Lots of luck finding that, very common in PA speakers to have those charts but in consumer audio you'd be lucky to get a +/- specification.

So, to replace my speakers I needed a limited vertical dispersion speaker that was very high efficiency so to not require a lot of power and easily driven by an AVR. My wife wants "on/off" simplicity and not a rack of amplifiers in the living room. I looked at everything from small PA monitors, studio monitors, consumer speakers to small professional theater speakers in my quest. The ever declining audio industry tends to ignore high efficiency, controlled dispersion speakers and I was greeted with an endless supply of "cones and domes" with shiny, piano black finishes (great at reflecting light in a dark room!) I looked at AMTs, they have a controlled dispersion and that has not changed in the 40 years since their invention. The consumer speakers could not handle the peak SPLs required for HT and ribbons still have peak SPL issues. Found the Beyma AMT on a waveguide that punches over 100dB of efficiency and can handle over 120dB peak SPL but at over $500 each and the size of them would not work for my living room. In the future with the introduction of Graphene, that should solve the issues with AMTs and ribbon durability--but that is in the future. For now, it was compression drivers and waveguides.

I know full well what horns do, I've owned three pairs of horn loaded speakers in my years and fully understood their limitations. Stumbled across the SEOS horn, read up on how it works, what problems it solves and the natural limits of the design. The kits at DIYSG use a 90x45 degree horn variant which fit my needs to a tee so I went for it. I was not completely ignorant of my purchase, I had charts, graphs, on/off axis response, polar charts and compression charts to give a very strong clue. The people that used them had to go through the hassle of building such things and builders have measuring gear, speak the correct technical language so very easy to understand their statements. As I said, if I didn't like them they could be used for large surrounds or...they would kick butt for block parties!

What I built was accurate, clear, clean and works very well for 4 people listening to movies, music, TV or video games--I've had no complaints. It is hard to compare them to conventional speakers because my line arrays in the garage are no way, shape or form conventional both in sound, dispersion or imaging (they always sound "big") After two years of use, I really liked them so went with an 88 Special center to get that huge 15" SEOS horn which would help with voices for my inlaws that have hearing aids etc. To get a perfect "match" I should upgrade to either more 88 Specials or Fusion 15's but the "little" Fusion 10's work very well with the larger 88 Special. My mother-in-law has no issues complaining about anything and always remarks how clear the voices are on her favorite TV shows. I'd call it a win.

If I had a fairly large room to play with, unlimited funds and no aesthetic constraints...would I use the F10/88 Special combo? No, I'd either get the Titan 630's (dual 15" version of the Titan 615) Danley Sound Labs SH-50's or JTR 212HTRs if you want to be honest about it. Things change once you get past 6 meter distances in typical rooms, I'd demand the same out of the system but tend to stick to reference with +3dB to +5dB "headroom" or 108 to 110dB peaks at the listening position. This is not to blow my hearing with compressed music, it is to preserve the dynamics in movies and classical music. I am bringing three subwoofers online in the next few months not for SPL reasons, there will be three to make up for my room acoustics issues. The extra bonus is I get to drive the existing subwoofers lower in power which lowers distortion naturally so another win. Three is about the max my wife will put up with and about the max I can stealth to hide the things as end tables.

My advice for anyone looking into purchasing speakers is to determine what the peak SPL requirements you have at your listening position. Since speakers can last 15 to 30 years, look forward and ponder will they give you the desired SPL in the future if your room becomes much larger? The amplifier or AVR power question is simple, if you can do your needs at 40 watts now, how much additional SPL will be required at twice the distance in the future? If you are building a system that needs X SPL at 3 meters, how much would you need at the same SPL at 8 meters (for instance) get the speakers that can do that X SPL at 8 meters at higher power levels than you need now. My system runs at a max of around 25 to 40 watts but I'm 3.3 meters away--I do have the option to strap some amplifiers to the AVR if/when required in case I end up in a basement--I can just add power without changing 7 to 9 speakers in the future. It will be easy to add amplifiers, add more subs and scale the system up to meet new requirements. I doubt that will ever be the case but life is funny sometimes. I did the buy new speakers every year or two thing, it was entertaining and educational and not too bad when dealing with a pair of speakers. Changing 7 to 9 of them would of driven me nuts back in the day so I avoid that scenario.

As always, your needs are different, your room is different, your tastes are different so take that into consideration. You are up in Canada so anything audio related is a pain to deal with and shipping is a world class disaster. You can IM Tuxedocivic, he is a big time DIY nut in Canada and he deals with your unique audio issues on a constant basis. Here is his Youtube account, check out how he operates to get an idea of what you are dealing with. The face behind some DIYSG designs (Fusion 10, 1099 etc.) Enjoy and good luck in your quest.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...8TTVEnQ/videos
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post #18 of 20 Old 12-24-2018, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Good question!

I call them a very high efficiency theater speaker with an accurate frequency response with smooth directivity through the crossover point to have a smooth transisition between the drivers. This allows for a wide horizontal dispersion on/off axis so the 4 people listening on my large couch have no problems hearing everything in the movie.

I've been building audio systems for many years, started out in car audio as a way to hammer reality in me that dispersion is key in a bad acoustic environment. Went on with PA aystems and rapidly learned that I needed two types of speakers to have a fighting chance to get reasonable sound quality depending on the room. The larger the mains, the narrower dispersion worked best so the smooth floors didn't turn the show into an echo chamber. The show starts in an hour, the floors are tile and you have two types of speakers and EQ...and measuring equipment--getter done!

I know the battle about "HT speakers" VS "music speakers" and it shouldn't matter etc. In reality, a home theater speaker has to meet the demands of a great PA speaker which is tougher to do than a music speaker. In PA design, you have to nail the spoken word--the public address part is critical. Humans are very sensitive to any oddities in the spoken word, our brains and experience teach us to really key in to what is being said and so on as a survival thing. You screw up that part, the entire crowd knows of your failure with no measurements required! Home theater is the same thing, movies are about speech for the most part so is priority #1 . After that, it moves to bass response and HT is much, much harder than music because you have to get deep bass response right. Fighting a 56 foot long 20Hz wave in a typical room is much harder than a 28 foot long 40Hz wave. This is very obvious when throwing a test tone in and walking around the room--the deeper you go the more problems you have with the room (unless your room is a barn sized monster)

The really tough thing about HT is the recording is done by certain specifications, you generally won't get contra bassoons, pipe organs or cannon fire in a music cut (unless you listen to classical) You generally won't see a 20 to 30dB dynamic range (unless you listen to classical) but that rarity in music is standard in movies! There are web sites that show you the dymanic range of musical recordings, they are generally around 13dB of dynamic range for pop recordings, some go down to only 6dB and others might hit over 17dB of dynamic range. Movies easily hit 25 to 28dB of dynamic range so count on the HT speakers to be stressed to 10dB higher than music speakers in real world use. Going by just power, you'll "need" 10 times the power for HT over music at the same AVERAGE sound level. No problem, just look at the specs for maximum SPL on consumer speakers--look at the chart and check for compression at maximum levels and go. Lots of luck finding that, very common in PA speakers to have those charts but in consumer audio you'd be lucky to get a +/- specification.

So, to replace my speakers I needed a limited vertical dispersion speaker that was very high efficiency so to not require a lot of power and easily driven by an AVR. My wife wants "on/off" simplicity and not a rack of amplifiers in the living room. I looked at everything from small PA monitors, studio monitors, consumer speakers to small professional theater speakers in my quest. The ever declining audio industry tends to ignore high efficiency, controlled dispersion speakers and I was greeted with an endless supply of "cones and domes" with shiny, piano black finishes (great at reflecting light in a dark room!) I looked at AMTs, they have a controlled dispersion and that has not changed in the 40 years since their invention. The consumer speakers could not handle the peak SPLs required for HT and ribbons still have peak SPL issues. Found the Beyma AMT on a waveguide that punches over 100dB of efficiency and can handle over 120dB peak SPL but at over $500 each and the size of them would not work for my living room. In the future with the introduction of Graphene, that should solve the issues with AMTs and ribbon durability--but that is in the future. For now, it was compression drivers and waveguides.

I know full well what horns do, I've owned three pairs of horn loaded speakers in my years and fully understood their limitations. Stumbled across the SEOS horn, read up on how it works, what problems it solves and the natural limits of the design. The kits at DIYSG use a 90x45 degree horn variant which fit my needs to a tee so I went for it. I was not completely ignorant of my purchase, I had charts, graphs, on/off axis response, polar charts and compression charts to give a very strong clue. The people that used them had to go through the hassle of building such things and builders have measuring gear, speak the correct technical language so very easy to understand their statements. As I said, if I didn't like them they could be used for large surrounds or...they would kick butt for block parties!

What I built was accurate, clear, clean and works very well for 4 people listening to movies, music, TV or video games--I've had no complaints. It is hard to compare them to conventional speakers because my line arrays in the garage are no way, shape or form conventional both in sound, dispersion or imaging (they always sound "big") After two years of use, I really liked them so went with an 88 Special center to get that huge 15" SEOS horn which would help with voices for my inlaws that have hearing aids etc. To get a perfect "match" I should upgrade to either more 88 Specials or Fusion 15's but the "little" Fusion 10's work very well with the larger 88 Special. My mother-in-law has no issues complaining about anything and always remarks how clear the voices are on her favorite TV shows. I'd call it a win.

If I had a fairly large room to play with, unlimited funds and no aesthetic constraints...would I use the F10/88 Special combo? No, I'd either get the Titan 630's (dual 15" version of the Titan 615) Danley Sound Labs SH-50's or JTR 212HTRs if you want to be honest about it. Things change once you get past 6 meter distances in typical rooms, I'd demand the same out of the system but tend to stick to reference with +3dB to +5dB "headroom" or 108 to 110dB peaks at the listening position. This is not to blow my hearing with compressed music, it is to preserve the dynamics in movies and classical music. I am bringing three subwoofers online in the next few months not for SPL reasons, there will be three to make up for my room acoustics issues. The extra bonus is I get to drive the existing subwoofers lower in power which lowers distortion naturally so another win. Three is about the max my wife will put up with and about the max I can stealth to hide the things as end tables.

My advice for anyone looking into purchasing speakers is to determine what the peak SPL requirements you have at your listening position. Since speakers can last 15 to 30 years, look forward and ponder will they give you the desired SPL in the future if your room becomes much larger? The amplifier or AVR power question is simple, if you can do your needs at 40 watts now, how much additional SPL will be required at twice the distance in the future? If you are building a system that needs X SPL at 3 meters, how much would you need at the same SPL at 8 meters (for instance) get the speakers that can do that X SPL at 8 meters at higher power levels than you need now. My system runs at a max of around 25 to 40 watts but I'm 3.3 meters away--I do have the option to strap some amplifiers to the AVR if/when required in case I end up in a basement--I can just add power without changing 7 to 9 speakers in the future. It will be easy to add amplifiers, add more subs and scale the system up to meet new requirements. I doubt that will ever be the case but life is funny sometimes. I did the buy new speakers every year or two thing, it was entertaining and educational and not too bad when dealing with a pair of speakers. Changing 7 to 9 of them would of driven me nuts back in the day so I avoid that scenario.

As always, your needs are different, your room is different, your tastes are different so take that into consideration. You are up in Canada so anything audio related is a pain to deal with and shipping is a world class disaster. You can IM Tuxedocivic, he is a big time DIY nut in Canada and he deals with your unique audio issues on a constant basis. Here is his Youtube account, check out how he operates to get an idea of what you are dealing with. The face behind some DIYSG designs (Fusion 10, 1099 etc.) Enjoy and good luck in your quest.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...8TTVEnQ/videos
Wow, good stuff.

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post #19 of 20 Old 12-24-2018, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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done and pipcs to prove it.

Very nice. They rock. The fusion 10s are now mounted. I wasn't sure if I could get them inthe same spot as the Bose 4.2 they replaced. The Bose were mounted where the previous owner ran speaker wire in the walls. It is located behind the listening area in the great room about 8 feet up on either wall. THe Bose were manageable to mount. The fusions not so much. A little bigger and probably twice as heavy.

Before mounting I tested with the main speaker leads. One fision 10 and one of the original mains. Wow. I think they sound better than the mains. Anyway, I did get them mounted (Barely!). The sorrounds are no longer washed out by the mains. Very happy. And the cost with finding the eminence woofers for on ebay for $66 means each one was about $200. Very satisfied.

NOTE: pics should be rotated clockwise 90 degrees for proper orientation.
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post #20 of 20 Old 12-25-2018, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
… I know the battle about "HT speakers" VS "music speakers" and it shouldn't matter etc. In reality, a home theater speaker has to meet the demands of a great PA speaker which is tougher to do than a music speaker. In PA design, you have to nail the spoken word--the public address part is critical. Humans are very sensitive to any oddities in the spoken word, our brains and experience teach us to really key in to what is being said and so on as a survival thing. You screw up that part, the entire crowd knows of your failure with no measurements required! Home theater is the same thing, movies are about speech for the most part so is priority #1 . ...
I think it's fair to include vocals along with the spoken word since they both represent the human voice that we are all so attuned to. At every live concert I've attended I hear the vocalist along with all the instruments through pro speakers that are more akin to PA/HT speakers. To come close to matching at home what I hear at live concerts in both quality and volume it seems that quality PA/HT speakers might be a better choice than the traditional home hi-fi speakers I've always owned. That's why I keep looking at the various DIYSG HT designs for my mixed use music listening/home video family room.
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