2 UM18-22 slot ported "WAF Prove It" design/build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 46 Old 12-16-2018, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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2 UM18-22 slot ported "WAF Prove It" design/build

In reference to a thread I started awhile ago (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...more-subs.html) where @johnson636 challenged me to "prove it"...this is the thread that does just that. Since I have never designed a sub myself, I borrowed concepts from @eng-399 tall boy build and used the marty modifier spreadsheet to come up with the following design. I'd appreciate if you all can check my work.


These will be added to my current 7.2 setup which has the following:
  • 1299s for the LCR
  • Volt-10s for all 4 surrounds
  • 2 existing mini martys which both be placed directly behind my 2nd row of seats.
  • 2 butt kickers to shake the 1st row of seats


Just for kicks the finish will be done to match my mains since they will be placed next to them. Those are custom sized maple veneer 1299s. (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...lcr-build.html)



The dimensions I have available are as follows:
Height: 53"
Depth: 22"
Width: 24"


I was shooting for a tune of 17 hz.


After punching into WinISD (no idea if I did this right) these are the graphs that I got. I added a 15hz high pass filter and an input signal of 1500 watts. I also included the box design using the marty modifier spreadsheet to get a cutlist.













With all of that, I appreciate comments on all the following:


1) Can someone check my winISD work?
2) Due to the fact I will be veneering the front...I was thinking as opposed to a marty, I will have the vent fire straight out the top. Other than the fact that someone could drop something down the vent I can't think of a reason not todo this. Would it hurt to put some sort of screen on it? Is this otherwise a bad idea? The reason I want todo this is because finishing the front with veneer around the ports will be a pain in the ass..but doable if needed
3) The subs themselves will be on the front sound stage which is on a set of cabinets/riser that is 24" tall. With that said, do I want to consider anything with regards to the placement of the driver in the box to have it at a certain height with respect to the floor?
4) Is the slight cone excursion in the mid 20 range a problem?

5) Any other thoughts on how bad I thought this out.



Thanks everyone in advance for helping this NOOB.
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Last edited by jehlinge; 12-17-2018 at 09:18 AM.
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post #2 of 46 Old 12-16-2018, 08:11 PM
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Port velocity seems it shouldn't be that high (18) since your ports are rather large (3x21). I ran into problems with one of my mini-marty's by making too-short 2" high ports that measured 17 in WinISD, and did get chuffing on the rare occasion (EOT opening). I flared them just a couple days ago just to stop that ...and it worked.

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post #3 of 46 Old 12-17-2018, 07:38 AM
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4) Is the slight cone excursion in the mid 20 range a problem?


No problem...it's been said the method PE uses to measure xmax understates it at 22mm. Cone excursion is more like 27.5mm on the Ultimax as far as any problems occurring goes.


Also when I model the UM in a full marty I'm only getting a max of 22.5mm cone excursion and just over 14 port velocity so your input numbers on the Ultimax must be off.



So basically I'm saying you should be good (including the upward-facing port), and it appears the port dimensions are correct, but better safe than sorry and let the even more experienced members here verify before making any cuts.
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post #4 of 46 Old 12-17-2018, 09:06 AM
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I’d probably set the hpf to 17hz and increase the wattage a bit. Then your Xmax peak numbers will be similar above and below tune. But, you can totally do it your way if you know you’re going to limit power at 1000 watts to stretch extension a smidge.
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post #5 of 46 Old 12-17-2018, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluenova View Post
I’d probably set the hpf to 17hz and increase the wattage a bit. Then your Xmax peak numbers will be similar above and below tune. But, you can totally do it your way if you know you’re going to limit power at 1000 watts to stretch extension a smidge.
Thanks @bluenova and @DaleNixon !!!

and an Ahah moment....I actually modeled with 1500 watts (on purpose). Not sure why I typed 1000 watts above. I fixed the initial post. That may also explain the different numbers @DaleNixon was talking about above. I changed the hpf to 17 and the Xmax peaks/port velocity look better.
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post #6 of 46 Old 12-17-2018, 09:47 AM
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Just tossing it out there based on your space available..... https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/m...gsg-flat-packs
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post #7 of 46 Old 12-17-2018, 09:57 AM
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Just tossing it out there based on your space available..... https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/m...gsg-flat-packs
Those cabs are pretty nice...for those that are looking to save some time and maybe fingers.

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post #8 of 46 Old 12-17-2018, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Just tossing it out there based on your space available..... https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/m...gsg-flat-packs
Standard size marty and mini marty won't fit in my available space!
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post #9 of 46 Old 12-17-2018, 10:26 AM
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Standard size marty and mini marty won't fit in my available space!
Sorry your right, some reason thought they are 24" wide and they are 25" wide.
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post #10 of 46 Old 12-17-2018, 11:53 PM
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post #11 of 46 Old 12-18-2018, 06:57 AM
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I modeled the un18-22 driver in a 10.81 cubic ft box with a 17hz tune and winisd shows the port length the same as what you came up with. The airport velocity was at 16.658ms at 16hz and the first port resonance was 142.46hz. If you want to bump up your first port resonance a little higher a box that has a 2.75 inch high port comes in at 156hz for the first port resonance which is a little better. The air port velocity with that come in at 18ms. Both will work fine. Try and have all the pieces of the port with a 3/4 round over to help with this to. Here’s a few pictures

Hp was set at 17hz
Input to the driver was at 1,600 watts and had 22 mm of xmax
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post #12 of 46 Old 12-18-2018, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
I modeled the un18-22 driver in a 10.81 cubic ft box with a 17hz tune and winisd shows the port length the same as what you came up with. The airport velocity was at 16.658ms at 16hz and the first port resonance was 142.46hz. If you want to bump up your first port resonance a little higher a box that has a 2.75 inch high port comes in at 156hz for the first port resonance which is a little better. The air port velocity with that come in at 18ms. Both will work fine. Try and have all the pieces of the port with a 3/4 round over to help with this to. Here’s a few pictures

Hp was set at 17hz
Input to the driver was at 1,600 watts and had 22 mm of xmax
Thanks @eng-399 . I'll make those changes.

Probably start cutting later this week on thursday or friday!!!!
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post #13 of 46 Old 12-18-2018, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehlinge View Post
Thanks @eng-399 . I'll make those changes.

Probably start cutting later this week on thursday or friday!!!!
Pictures or it didn't happen.

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
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post #14 of 46 Old 12-19-2018, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Pictures or it didn't happen.
Deal
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post #15 of 46 Old 12-20-2018, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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After feeling a bit more confident with WiniSD and based on mike and dale's input I changed the dimensions a bit. I decided I can rearrange some things up front so I can make these bit taller. Turns out they will be almost exactly the same as Mike's tall boy build.



I am off work until Jan 3, so if the rain would ever stop here in Iowa I would goto home depot and get some rough cut MDF....I'm ready to go and even have my cutlist in hand


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post #16 of 46 Old 12-21-2018, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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... And it has started. Have the sides and back cut to size. Ports, rails, top, bottom etc. is cut to size on 1 dimension. I'll cut the other dimension to size as I assemble.

Minor roadblock...I was just informed we are having a friendsmas dinner and movie tonight and told to prepare a prime rib. Off to the butcher shop.

More later.

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post #17 of 46 Old 12-21-2018, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Good progress today! 3 of 6 sides assembled and the port rails installed. Tomorrow I will paint the inside of the ports and start assembling the window bracing. Starting to realize the massive size of these....same feeling I had when doing the min martys.





On a side note..why does avsforum insist on rotating my pictures 90 degrees when I take the picture in portrait orientation?

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post #18 of 46 Old 12-22-2018, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I did not get much done today. I got the ports primed and painted. With that said, when I view glued and clamped sheet goods getting laminated in this house...that is usually a promissory note for more subwoofers in my basement!

I think things will start coming together quickly tomorrow.



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post #19 of 46 Old 12-23-2018, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I was gluing up the other baffle this morning and took a few shots of my process. I see people asking about this all the time so I thought I would post the shots.

Since the top layer tends to slide around on the glue until you have it clamped down, I usually cut the pieces a 1/2 inch big on all dimensions. I clamp it together and then after drying I rip enough from one side to make it smooth, flip it over and rip the other side to length.

This time however, I would not have enough waste by the time I split my maple plywood in 2 pieces. So....I ripped and cross cut the maple to size (I actually made it a about 1/4 inch bigger than needed, more on that later). Next, I made the bottom piece about 1/2 inch bigger than the cut maple sheet.

Time for glue up. I like to use quite a few of cowls across the sheet to distribute pressure across the board. I always have a good supply of 3 inch wide strips that I cut from scrap lying around my shop.



This left me with the following pic which I could then use my flush cut router bit and voila...entire piece cut to size!!!





Now, why did I cut the baffle pieces 1/4 inch bigger than needed? The way I am constructing these boxes, unlike the marty the baffle will be the same width and height of the cabinet. Leaving it a bit big will leave some slop to come back and flush trim it once attached to the cabinet.

Now its time to start cutting the bracing.
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post #20 of 46 Old 12-24-2018, 09:33 PM
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Now its time to start cutting the bracing.
Looking interesting. Looking forward to more posts as you progress.

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post #21 of 46 Old 12-24-2018, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking interesting. Looking forward to more posts as you progress.
I'll keep posting as I go along. I have the ports installed and all the bracing cut.

I got up early this morning, went and worked out and the whole time thought about how I could get the bracing installed and the holes for the baffles cut.

While cutting the first circle, the damn router bit broke and took a small chunk out of the face of the baffle. Talk about about a disheartening experience after taking the time cutting the wood, spreading the glue, and clamping it up for a double baffle☹️. I was so disgusted with it I just closed up my shop and called it a day. Spent the rest of the day with family.

I went back later and looked at it again. I decided I may be able to just make the radius if6 the hole 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch bigger and the problem will be taken care of. I'll cut that and place the driver and see how it looks with the extra "slop" and decide.

I'll be stepping away from the project for a few days now for Christmas gatherings.

Merry Christmas All!
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post #22 of 46 Old 12-27-2018, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehlinge View Post
While cutting the first circle, the damn router bit broke and took a small chunk out of the face of the baffle. Talk about about a disheartening experience after taking the time cutting the wood, spreading the glue, and clamping it up for a double baffle☹️. I was so disgusted with it I just closed up my shop and called it a day. Spent the rest of the day with family.

I went back later and looked at it again. I decided I may be able to just make the radius if6 the hole 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch bigger and the problem will be taken care of. I'll cut that and place the driver and see how it looks with the extra "slop" and decide.
One of my woodworking learnings is sometimes the mark of a good woodworker is not whether or not you make mistakes, but how you deal with them. Sounds like you may already know how you are goimg to deal with the issue. Don't let this stuff get you down. Like you are planning to do, step away and give it a little time before coming back again.
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post #23 of 46 Old 12-28-2018, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally working on this again. This morning I finished the window bracing. I took a non-traditional approach to this. I was not looking forward to cutting out a bunch of MDF with a jig saw. I was thinking about using the @eng-399 method of tracing a template with a flush cut bit, but didn't have enough MDF left. With that, I decided to use pocket joinery and use the scraps of MDF I had left in the shop.

First I ripped a bunch of pieces to width and then to the appropriate length for 2 different size windows braces (some will be on the vent port so not as deep). I cut everything to oversize it about 1/8" on both dimensions.



Next was using my Kreg jig to drill pocket holes in all of the shorter pieces.



After that I clamped, glued, and screwed each piece together. Once together I filled the pocket holes with lightweight drywall compound. To ensure everything was straight and square, I trimmed the smallest amount from the right side of the braces (closest to the blade in the picture). This is why I over sized the braces. Notice I marked two edges on the brace. One marks the other edge that needs to be cut, the other mark (along the long edge) is to indicate that was along the fence so I can use the same edge again when cutting the other side. I will trim each to size individually during final assembly.



Routing the inside edges was next. I used a couple of small scraps wrapped with some of that rug non-slip stuff to set the window braces on while routing. This worked great to keep the workpiece from sliding around while treating the edges. First time using the non-slip stuff for woodworking...but I love it. I will keep a supply of that in the shop from now on!




Finally I set up a "stop" on my chop saw so I could quickly nip the corners of the braces off at a 45 degree angle. I like doing this when joining things in a corner that will not be "seen" (they are inside braces...they won't be "seen"). This really helps to get things in the corner if not perfectly square or there is some sort of obstruction (i.e wood glue). Pic is just showing a dry fit with the nipped corners.






With those done, it's time to try attempt #2 on cutting the holes in the baffles.
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post #24 of 46 Old 12-28-2018, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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While cutting the first circle, the damn router bit broke and took a small chunk out of the face of the baffle. Talk about about a disheartening experience after taking the time cutting the wood, spreading the glue, and clamping it up for a double baffle☹️. I was so disgusted with it I just closed up my shop and called it a day. Spent the rest of the day with family.
I "fixed" the baffle that my broken router took the chunk out of. I just had to make the cutout bigger. Have not decided if I will redo this or not. It doesn't look great... Doesn't look terrible.

At any rate..I can start final assembly since the baffles go on last and think about it for a bit.


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post #25 of 46 Old 12-28-2018, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
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I "fixed" the baffle that my broken router took the chunk out of. I just had to make the cutout bigger. Have not decided if I will redo this or not. It doesn't look great... Doesn't look terrible.
If you really think you'll be OK with that 6 months or a year down the road, then leave it. Otherwise it's probably best to bite the bullet now & redo the baffle. Personally, I think any cutouts that show should be high precision.

As for the chunk taken out by the router bit, you could have filled it with Bondo. It can be built up very thick if needed, doesn't shrink at all & machines & cuts easily. That repair probably would have taken less time than cutting the hole larger. But that little bit of advice is for next time
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post #26 of 46 Old 12-28-2018, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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If you really think you'll be OK with that 6 months or a year down the road, then leave it. Otherwise it's probably best to bite the bullet now & redo the baffle. Personally, I think any cutouts that show should be high precision.

As for the chunk taken out by the router bit, you could have filled it with Bondo. It can be built up very thick if needed, doesn't shrink at all & machines & cuts easily. That repair probably would have taken less time than cutting the hole larger. But that little bit of advice is for next time
If I were covering this with duratex or other paint...then yes. The front of this will be dyed maple so I just used a sheet of maple veneer plywood. I was trying to save time (and cost) by not having to buy a sheet of maple veneer and applying it myself.
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post #27 of 46 Old 12-28-2018, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehlinge View Post
If I were covering this with duratex or other paint...then yes. The front of this will be dyed maple so I just used a sheet of maple veneer plywood. I was trying to save time (and cost) by not having to buy a sheet of maple veneer and applying it myself.
Wow! Can't believe I missed that. I agree, you made the right choice here. If you paint that recessed area matt black it should blend right in with the driver. That's gonna look sharp.
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post #28 of 46 Old 12-28-2018, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Another day down...a bit more progress. One cabinet is ready for lining and then the front baffle. Plus I had a helper handing me screws today... That's actually helpful!



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Last edited by jehlinge; 12-28-2018 at 03:30 PM.
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post #29 of 46 Old 12-29-2018, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I got about 4 hours into the cabinets today. It is starting to come together. I got both cabinets lined, and one cabinet has the baffle clamped and the glue setting. I'll probably get the other baffle glued tomorrow and start putting the finish on them tomorrow.


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post #30 of 46 Old 12-30-2018, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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A few more hours today. Got the other baffle glued on and one cabinet is completely constructed.

To finish construction, I flush trimmed the baffle and then "trimmed" the port opening with solid maple. Since the sides won't be seen really, I am just going to paint those the same color as the ports and not really concerned with the sides. The front will be dyed and coated with conversion varnish to match my 1299s so I wanted something nice on the front.

Basic process followed:
  1. Got a solid piece of 1 inch thick maple from the lumber yard and planed to the same thickness as the MDF.
  2. Ripped several pieces slightly wider than 1.5" (the thickness of the baffle).
  3. Turned the ripped strips on edge and planed them precisely to the thickness of the baffle (this also gets rid of saw marks).
  4. Routed 1 strip with a 3/8 roundover for the center braces.
  5. Constructed the outer frame, added the roundovers to the inside, and then glued in the center braces.
  6. Glued the entire assembly to the port on the cabinet
  7. Lightly sanded with random orbital to make everything flush.

I think they look outstanding. I got a few burn marks from the router, but these will take a dark dye so you won't notice it.












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