Mid-bass can you come to me. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 9 Old 01-20-2019, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Help!!Mid-bass can you come to me.

Currently my set up consist of

Fronts: Def tech 8020
Center: Cs8040hd
Ceiling: Franklin IB65CA (not in use future atmos upgrade)
Surr: Acoustic Research PL900SAT
Sub: SVS Pc12-NSD (OLDER WITH BASH AMP)
UM-18 Mini Marty powered by Crown XLS 1502 BRIDGED.
Avr: DENON AVR-590

The um18 was in a sealed enclosure around 7cu.ft for about 2 years but it seemed I was still missing some umph I guess you could say roughly under 30hz. So I built a mini-marty in November and I have to say I am very pleased with it.

Now I can actually feel my couch vibrate!!! John Wick Club Shoot out sceen is really nice.

But something is missing. I would like more MID-BASS. I want to feel more punch in my heart and soul lol. With what I am looling for I probably wont get a whole lot more but I'm positive it can be an upgrade. I can only run 2 subwoofers for now.

This will involved getting rid of the SVS SUB and doing another DIY. The only problem is I am strange and so is the S.O. Enclosure needs to be same as MiniMarty port length can be changed. Looking at the PA460 and the BC 18DS115.

What are your thoughts/ideas?

Future plans within next couple months
Onkyo Tx-RZ820 or Denon equivalent. Fiancee really likes the price of the Onkyo. I want something that has preouts.

Thanks

P.s. I need to get a UMIK and do some testing

Last edited by dsmrider07; 01-20-2019 at 11:44 AM.
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post #2 of 9 Old 01-20-2019, 05:11 PM
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Either will have a massive increase in mid-bass, the B&C is of higher build quality, but also more money.

The UM-18 is only like 88db/w/m, it's not a mid-bass monster, no car/ht subs are...

Chest kick is in the 50-300hz range. If you box model it you can see just how many UM-18's and watts it takes to match say 4 or 8 PA-460's tuned to 40hz...

Infrasonics is cool... but 95% of movies and 99% of music is >20hz, most of it being >30hz in fact.

Solving 30-300hz is cheap and small.
Solving <20hz gets big/expensive, fast...
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post #3 of 9 Old 01-20-2019, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Either will have a massive increase in mid-bass, the B&C is of higher build quality, but also more money.

The UM-18 is only like 88db/w/m, it's not a mid-bass monster, no car/ht subs are...

Chest kick is in the 50-300hz range. If you box model it you can see just how many UM-18's and watts it takes to match say 4 or 8 PA-460's tuned to 40hz...

Infrasonics is cool... but 95% of movies and 99% of music is >20hz, most of it being >30hz in fact.

Solving 30-300hz is cheap and small.
Solving <20hz gets big/expensive, fast...
I will try to see how a PA460 models in 9cuft tuned to 35hz. Does that sound good or should I go for 40. Thanks for your in put. I always watch your youtube uploads 😆.
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post #4 of 9 Old 01-21-2019, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmrider07 View Post
I will try to see how a PA460 models in 9cuft tuned to 35hz. Does that sound good or should I go for 40. Thanks for your in put. I always watch your youtube uploads 😆.
If you're looking at the PA460 you should look at the V.B.S.S thread. Why do you need it the same size as the minimarty? Could you build 2 V.B.S.S and flank the minimarty for aesthetic purposes?
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post #5 of 9 Old 01-22-2019, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroommunk View Post
If you're looking at the PA460 you should look at the V.B.S.S thread. Why do you need it the same size as the minimarty? Could you build 2 V.B.S.S and flank the minimarty for aesthetic purposes?
I could probably. I would honestly rather build just one. Minimarty using PA460(not really I would love to have 4 BC 21s but space won't let me do that until I rent this house and buy another). I have read the VBSS thread quite a bit. I know I would be missing out on mid bass using just one. But yes for aesthitic purposes. I guess I'm weird.
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post #6 of 9 Old 04-15-2019, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Questions/ options.
1. BC 18DS115-4 in 9cuft 18hz x2
2. BC 18SW115-4 in 9cuft 18hz x2
3. BC 18TBW 9cuft 40hz + UM18 9cuft 18hz

When modelling the DS AND SW. The SW is about +1db from 23hz-ish to about 90hz. Maybe I am doing something wrong. Sound quality and mid bass what I am looking for. I know 9cuft isn't optimal however the lady doesn't want different size subs because of this being in our living room. And I already have an Um18 in mini marty. Also going to upgrade to a NX6000d and use the crown to power my towers.
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post #7 of 9 Old 04-17-2019, 02:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Just ordered an 18DS115-4 from PE and Nx6000d on Amazon. Going to take the Um18 out and see how the BC competes in the minimarty by ear since I don't have a proper Mic for REW. If i like it will end up buying another, build minimarty and selling UM18 AND PC12 soon. If I'm not pleased I'll keep um18 and build something around 40hz with the B&C.
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post #8 of 9 Old 04-17-2019, 11:47 AM
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Curious, but how are you High/Low passing the Mini Marty?



I assume the AVR is taking care of the low pass, but what are you doing for excursion control below the 18Hz tuning of the MM?


Also, where is your low pass for the MM set in the Denon? I modeled up the MM with both the UM18 and the 18DS115, and considering the sensitivity of the 18DS, one might think that you'd have quite a bit more output, but between 21-55Hz, you actually lose output based on modeling with the same power input.


If your AVR is set to cross the sub at 80 or 100Hz, you will see some gains up top in the 100-120Hz region, and maybe this is what you are missing.


If you aren't implementing a high pass I would definitely recommend it since movies are getting more and more <20Hz content and you risk blowing it up. Sure, a lot are still rolling off at around 20Hz, but all it takes is a Blade Runner or Tron at high volume and bad noises will happen...


I am interested to know what you think of the B&C though!
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post #9 of 9 Old 04-17-2019, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewp29 View Post
Curious, but how are you High/Low passing the Mini Marty?



I assume the AVR is taking care of the low pass, but what are you doing for excursion control below the 18Hz tuning of the MM?


Also, where is your low pass for the MM set in the Denon? I modeled up the MM with both the UM18 and the 18DS115, and considering the sensitivity of the 18DS, one might think that you'd have quite a bit more output, but between 21-55Hz, you actually lose output based on modeling with the same power input.


If your AVR is set to cross the sub at 80 or 100Hz, you will see some gains up top in the 100-120Hz region, and maybe this is what you are missing.


If you aren't implementing a high pass I would definitely recommend it since movies are getting more and more <20Hz content and you risk blowing it up. Sure, a lot are still rolling off at around 20Hz, but all it takes is a Blade Runner or Tron at high volume and bad noises will happen...


I am interested to know what you think of the B&C though!
Since building the minimarty I have just been cautious with the "gain" on the crown and avr volume. I did use the hpf as low as it could go for watching TIH and Oblivion which was 30hz but that was no garbage. Ive since switched to the Onkyo 820. It set lpf at 100hz which I changed to 120. That is also the reason ive ordered the NX6000D so I could implement a hpf. The 6k will be delivered on Friday. I will set a hpf at 16-17hz. The BC will be here sometime next week. But I wont get to play with it until next Friday. Thank you for modelling that.
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