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post #1 of 16 Old 02-06-2019, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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DIY or??

I currently have an AT 270THX system with a Velodyne DEQ-15R. I have two AT 273 center channels that I was considering combining into one, i.e
4 mids and one tweeter in an appropriate sized enclosure. The problem is that I don't know the T/S parameters of the mids, and I'm not sure it would make any difference.

I also have 4 Dayton RS180's and 3 Dayton RS100's, so I was thinking to maybe build all new LCR's in a 3-way config with an RS180, RS100 and tweeter in each L and R, and two RS180's, a single RS100, and a tweeter for the center, or even 2 RS180's, 2 RS100's and a single tweeter for the center.

The goal is more output and a smoother curve. The 273 center as-is is underwhelming, and there's not enough midbass across the front soundstage. I am running a Marantz SR6012, and using Audyssey XT32, which puts the surrounds all at 90hz, so the Velo has to climb above 100, which it doesn't do well.

Help! Suggestions?
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post #2 of 16 Old 02-07-2019, 02:27 PM
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Have you ever designed a speaker from scratch before?
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post #3 of 16 Old 02-07-2019, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3roz View Post
I currently have an AT 270THX system with a Velodyne DEQ-15R. I have two AT 273 center channels that I was considering combining into one, i.e
4 mids and one tweeter in an appropriate sized enclosure. The problem is that I don't know the T/S parameters of the mids, and I'm not sure it would make any difference.

I also have 4 Dayton RS180's and 3 Dayton RS100's, so I was thinking to maybe build all new LCR's in a 3-way config with an RS180, RS100 and tweeter in each L and R, and two RS180's, a single RS100, and a tweeter for the center, or even 2 RS180's, 2 RS100's and a single tweeter for the center.

The goal is more output and a smoother curve. The 273 center as-is is underwhelming, and there's not enough midbass across the front soundstage. I am running a Marantz SR6012, and using Audyssey XT32, which puts the surrounds all at 90hz, so the Velo has to climb above 100, which it doesn't do well.

Help! Suggestions?
What you are talking about is Frankenstein speakers, not DIY. Without all the T/S parameters (and knowledge of crossover design), you are taking a shot in the dark, and you won't know what you are creating. I would argue that those drivers are already in their optimum enclosures. If you want more, it's time to upgrade, either store bought or DIY.

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post #4 of 16 Old 02-07-2019, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I've designed and built passive and powered subs, but not anything else. I'm leaning towards using the daytons with some diy crossovers. Taking apart the AT centers and combining the drivers into one enclosure doesn't really seem like a good plan. I've demo'd 3 ways and I prefer them over 2 ways. I guess it wouldnt hurt to give it a go.
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post #5 of 16 Old 02-07-2019, 06:52 PM
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A pair of PA-460's is a good way to increase the mid-bass, even if powered with a pawn shop AVR. Although an inuke would be better suited... like a 1kDSP bridged @ 4-ohms.

The other way to do it is just go all-out of the LCR with 3-way and multiple large high-sensitivity drivers, or even more less sensitive ones...

Chest-kick is in the 50-300hz region. Generally people want 110-130db in that region, which is at a distance is gonna take a lot of horses.

XSIM, a UMIK and REW is all you need. A WT2 would be even better... for the zma import vs only frd.

As for drivers, I'm sure you'll figure it out... PE has more than enough selection to piece together a solution for almost any project. For some ultra-exotic drivers you may have to import them from elsewhere, but those systems are more rare.
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post #6 of 16 Old 02-07-2019, 07:53 PM
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The easiest thing to try would be turn off the Audyssey (heresy around here!) and set your front three and sub crossovers to 60-80hz. If your fronts don’t provide the impact/dynamics that you desire, you need more cone area on your woofers. Two RS 180’s per speaker may be enough for you, but there are four different RS 180 woofers with unique T/S parameters, and the same with the RS100’s. You would also need to match the paired sensitivity of the woofers and mids with the tweeter. Either that or pad one or the other down to match. Building a three way crossover to get everything to blend will require knowledge in crossover design.

I can appreciate your idea of a scratch built speaker, it’s just a dive to the deep end of the DIY pool. That said, I had a friend design my latest two way center utilizing two RS225-8 woofers with a AMTPRO-4 tweeter. It’s quite impressive with vocal reproduction and dynamics. Not all good speakers have to be from kits, but it’s a lot easier. 🙂
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post #7 of 16 Old 02-08-2019, 12:06 PM
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You might want to try doing a factory reset on the DEQ-15R, then programming the curve as "Jazz/Classical", and dialing its crossover to the full 120Hz. This should give the flattest response from the sub's software, and allow for better integration via Audyssey or whatever. The DEQ-15R's equalization is mysterious and inscrutable, better to use anything external that you'd have more control over. Do this and you might find your missing midbass- the sub should be capable of over 100Hz (whether it's too localizable for your liking at a higher crossover is a different story).

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post #8 of 16 Old 02-10-2019, 09:38 AM
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If you want to give the DIY 3-way a go, pick up a miniDSP or the Dayton Audio DSP-408 4x8 DSP and skip the passive crossover experiments. An obsolete (non-HDMI) 7.1 AVR with the multi-channel inputs makes for a pretty cheap stereo 3-way amplifier rig to experiment with if you don't have a stack of spare amps in the closet. Add a measuring mic and some software and you are ready to have at it.

If the experiment ends in failure you have a pretty cool DSP unit to so something else with. At least it will be easier to sell than $150 worth of used passive crossover components.

Good luck!
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post #9 of 16 Old 02-11-2019, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies so far. I've reset the velo and it seems a bit better. There may have been EQ correction from a previous room that caused issues. Still not sure if I want to tackle a 3 way or just slowly replace my 270THX. I had no idea 3-ways would be so complicated.
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post #10 of 16 Old 02-17-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post
Have you ever designed a speaker from scratch before?
Does it matter? After all you have to start somewhere if you are going to get into DIY.
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post #11 of 16 Old 05-15-2019, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Still thinking about doing this. The crossovers would be the hardest part. Can I use pre-made ones without much difficulty?

Last edited by z3roz; 05-15-2019 at 10:34 AM.
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post #12 of 16 Old 05-15-2019, 11:06 AM
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youll have impedence issues and other problems with pre made.

building crossovers require extensive knoeledge of the TS specs and how to build electronic networks.
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post #13 of 16 Old 05-20-2019, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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You think this is something PE could help with? They sell everything needed.
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post #14 of 16 Old 05-21-2019, 05:15 AM
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I think the bottom line here is whether or not you want a quality sounding speaker system. If the answer is no then go ahead with your Frankenspeaker and have fun. If yes then find a speaker system designed by someone that knows what they are doing. Picking random drivers and buying premade crossovers is not the way to audio bliss. You have been warned
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post #15 of 16 Old 05-21-2019, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Dang. Well, they'd be for experimenting and at most a garage pair. Obviously they arent going to compare to say, Bucharts or KEFs, but if I learn something along the way, it was worth it. The plan is shelved for now, because I've got too much other stuff going on. I just hate to see quality drivers sitting there.
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post #16 of 16 Old 05-22-2019, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3roz View Post
I currently have an AT 270THX system with a Velodyne DEQ-15R. I have two AT 273 center channels that I was considering combining into one, i.e
4 mids and one tweeter in an appropriate sized enclosure. The problem is that I don't know the T/S parameters of the mids, and I'm not sure it would make any difference.

I also have 4 Dayton RS180's and 3 Dayton RS100's, so I was thinking to maybe build all new LCR's in a 3-way config with an RS180, RS100 and tweeter in each L and R, and two RS180's, a single RS100, and a tweeter for the center, or even 2 RS180's, 2 RS100's and a single tweeter for the center.

The goal is more output and a smoother curve. The 273 center as-is is underwhelming, and there's not enough midbass across the front soundstage. I am running a Marantz SR6012, and using Audyssey XT32, which puts the surrounds all at 90hz, so the Velo has to climb above 100, which it doesn't do well.

Help! Suggestions?
Here is Jeff Bagby's MTM using RS180s and RS28a (which is NOA, but I'm sure you can find a suitable replacement with some searching).

Given Mr. Bagby's reputation, I'm confident these would sound amazing.
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