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post #31 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by IAH View Post
Will ported subs extend into single digits with any significance if tuned to say 18hz? This has always been a concern of mine. But I literally know next to nothing, even tho I feel like I've read a lot over the past few years - its like a drop in the ocean!


Mine do not. I have 6 hst18’s in 10cf cabs tuned right around 18hz. My room gain takes them to 12hz before they drop off like a rock. Single digits will move the cones a lot, but it’s not impactful. A set of buttkickers takes care of this problem. If you’re on a slab, I’d take ported subs with buttkickers over sealed cabs any day. If you are on suspended floors, sealed might get you that single digit rumble. I’d also load up on nearfield cabs.
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post #32 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by IAH View Post
Will ported subs extend into single digits with any significance if tuned to say 18hz? This has always been a concern of mine. But I literally know next to nothing, even tho I feel like I've read a lot over the past few years - its like a drop in the ocean!
Not if tuned to 18hz. That said, you can tune lower, but chasing single digits is a fools errand. You give up a lot of output above there. The actual amount of single digit content is low. Even when there is single digit content, it's generally masked by higher frequency content. I've done extensive testing with low frequency, high output, low distortion signals. The amount of output it takes at say 5hz to be noticeable is very high and the end result is still underwhelming.

I think the ideal tuning point is between 14-17hz. With my big enclosures tuned to 14.5hz, I still have some usable response below 10hz. The -3db point is between 10-11hz in my room.

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post #33 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 12:05 PM
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Thanks Guys. Chasing single digits does seem kind of tuff, but I've been very fascinated by the BEQ theory as of late https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...ed-movies.html , which basically makes every movie a "full bandwidth" movie, providing significant output all the way down.

I have tried it on my VERY modest setup - (2) SI HT-18's in 4cf sealed enclosures - and I must say its a lot of fun, even with my setup.

I feel like if I went ported that i would lose the ability to take advantage of BEQ since most of the benefit of BEQ is below 20hz.

On the other hand tho, it seems like adding crowsons or buttkickers is the smartest thing to do.
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post #34 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by IAH View Post
Thanks Guys. Chasing single digits does seem kind of tuff, but I've been very fascinated by the BEQ theory as of late https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...ed-movies.html , which basically makes every movie a "full bandwidth" movie, providing significant output all the way down.

I have tried it on my VERY modest setup - (2) SI HT-18's in 4cf sealed enclosures - and I must say its a lot of fun, even with my setup.

I feel like if I went ported that i would lose the ability to take advantage of BEQ since most of the benefit of BEQ is below 20hz.

On the other hand tho, it seems like adding crowsons or buttkickers is the smartest thing to do.
Yeah, transducers are really the answer for single-digits. What subs can do in the single-digits is just a drop in the bucket compared to what transducers can do. So going ported definitely doesn't make you lose the ability to take advantage of BEQ. Ported will easily take you down to 10Hz (better than sealed will), and transducers will take you the rest of the way.
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post #35 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Yeah, transducers are really the answer for single-digits. What subs can do in the single-digits is just a drop in the bucket compared to what transducers can do. So going ported definitely doesn't make you lose the ability to take advantage of BEQ. Ported will easily take you down to 10Hz (better than sealed will), and transducers will take you the rest of the way.
Thanks Aron! I'll have you to partially blame (for BEQ) when I upgrade to a couple of huge ported subs, a few nearfields, and crowsons ! I may go broke, but I'll be one happy broke SOB!
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post #36 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 12:40 PM
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Is it EVER advantageous to go sealed over ported - strictly from a numbers/measurements perspective? Meaning money and space aren't issues.

For instance, would it be better to have 10 sealed UM18's over 4 Marty subs with UM18's?
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post #37 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by IAH View Post
Is it EVER advantageous to go sealed over ported - strictly from a numbers/measurements perspective? Meaning money and space aren't issues.

For instance, would it be better to have 10 sealed UM18's over 4 Marty subs with UM18's?
model it out...

the 10 sealed would have more higher freq output. The 4 marty's would prob have more lf output.

Sealed has the advantage for enclosure size.
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post #38 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
model it out...

the 10 sealed would have more higher freq output. The 4 marty's would prob have more lf output.

Sealed has the advantage for enclosure size.
True. Thanks.

I downloaded winisd the other day. my first couple attempts at it were pretty pathetic. Will have to give it better attention/effort.
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post #39 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 01:04 PM
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Ported or Sealed?

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Originally Posted by IAH View Post
Thanks Aron! I'll have you to partially blame (for BEQ) when I upgrade to a couple of huge ported subs, a few nearfields, and crowsons ! I may go broke, but I'll be one happy broke SOB!


In reference to this thread title, I hope this means you have chosen ported!
Hit me up if you need some killer nearfield cabs. The design is perfect for nearfield, based on using ds4’s, but a couple other 18” drivers would be great. They are 20x18x40. 6ish cf net. Tuned to 18. They pound nearfield.
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post #40 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
In reference to this thread title, I hope this means you have chosen ported!
Hit me up if you need some killer nearfield cabs. The design is perfect for nearfield, based on using ds4’s, but a couple other 18” drivers would be great. They are 20x18x40. 6ish cf net. Tuned to 18. They pound nearfield.
Pretty sure I'll be going ported! Unfortunately, I wont be able to make the upgrade until probably after summer. I'll keep that in mind tho. Thanks!
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post #41 of 55 Old 02-26-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by IAH View Post
Pretty sure I'll be going ported! Unfortunately, I wont be able to make the upgrade until probably after summer. I'll keep that in mind tho. Thanks!


I ain’t goin no where.
You’ll be happy you did. I had 6 15” ib subs at one time and I’m glad I switched to ported. Wish I had room for bigger boxes, I’d be crushing it in the high single, to mid teen fq’s.
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post #42 of 55 Old 03-10-2019, 07:09 PM
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Marketing nonsense.

Look at real world applications. Virtually every sub you'll see whether in an arena, movie theater, small venue, bass guitar cab, etc, is ported.

The problem is that most ID sub sellers are not going to make their sub large enough to fall into the 'designed properly' category. The reason you hear the myth is because there are so many undersized enclosures out there.
True when compareing small enclosures.
However when considering x10 vas enclosures i prefer sealed over very large ported.

Perhaps its my imagination but to my ears i prefer diy infinite baffle.

Imho most premade boxes from manufacturers sound a bit boxy?

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post #43 of 55 Old 03-10-2019, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
I ain’t goin no where.
You’ll be happy you did. I had 6 15” ib subs at one time and I’m glad I switched to ported. Wish I had room for bigger boxes, I’d be crushing it in the high single, to mid teen fq’s.

Pardon my asking as i am very confused as to why you went from ib to ported?

I had sealed and i was not satisfied with 4 12 inch subs the i went larger enclosures with 4 15 inch ported subs but the group delay and the box coloration drove me nuts.

Then i went x10 vas 2 fi car audio ib318 v2 in infinite baffle and pardon my saying but imho everything sounded better like piano music, opera, edm, and every movie sounds like it has improved clarity in midrange and highs thanks to imho better base reproduction?

In two weeks i will test again with four ib318 v2 subwoofers to see how it sounds.

But i am quite sure i will eventually go with 8 ib318 v2 subwoofers in a four manifold ib.

Thanks.

Yamaha avr, diy l c r surround Behringer nx3000 dsp Fi car audio ib318 v2 310 cubic foot concrete ib lg pf 1500 projector.steren projector mount.
Pending create diy riser Bass shakers , buy fourty 6 inch drivers for some new mains get new 4k projector
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post #44 of 55 Old 03-11-2019, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post
Pardon my asking as i am very confused as to why you went from ib to ported?



I had sealed and i was not satisfied with 4 12 inch subs the i went larger enclosures with 4 15 inch ported subs but the group delay and the box coloration drove me nuts.



Then i went x10 vas 2 fi car audio ib318 v2 in infinite baffle and pardon my saying but imho everything sounded better like piano music, opera, edm, and every movie sounds like it has improved clarity in midrange and highs thanks to imho better base reproduction?



In two weeks i will test again with four ib318 v2 subwoofers to see how it sounds.



But i am quite sure i will eventually go with 8 ib318 v2 subwoofers in a four manifold ib.



Thanks.


I wanted more output. For that reason I needed to go ported. Admittedly, I know a lot more now then I did years ago, when I tore out the IB. But I don’t regret it. My ported subs sound wonderful to me, with headroom and plenty spl. (Please don’t quote me saying that!) I’d love to hear your IB and experience true uncolored bass.
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post #45 of 55 Old 03-11-2019, 10:48 AM
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i went larger enclosures with 4 15 inch ported subs but the group delay and the box coloration drove me nuts.
What were your ported subs (volume, tune, driver) etc?

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post #46 of 55 Old 03-11-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post
Pardon my asking as i am very confused as to why you went from ib to ported?

I had sealed and i was not satisfied with 4 12 inch subs the i went larger enclosures with 4 15 inch ported subs but the group delay and the box coloration drove me nuts.

Then i went x10 vas 2 fi car audio ib318 v2 in infinite baffle and pardon my saying but imho everything sounded better like piano music, opera, edm, and every movie sounds like it has improved clarity in midrange and highs thanks to imho better base reproduction?

In two weeks i will test again with four ib318 v2 subwoofers to see how it sounds.

But i am quite sure i will eventually go with 8 ib318 v2 subwoofers in a four manifold ib.

Thanks.
group delay at a ported box frequency is inaudible. Sounds like you had setup/tuning issues or a bad enclosure.
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post #47 of 55 Old 03-11-2019, 11:35 AM
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group delay at a ported box frequency is inaudible. Sounds like you had setup/tuning issues or a bad enclosure.
+1. This is exactly why I am asking him what his ported subs were. Seems something was off with them.

My 31+cf ported subs have less group delay than their 4cf sealed equivalent above 25Hz, similar group delay down to 15Hz, and even where they have significant group delay below 15Hz, it's still only:
0.33 cycle @ 15Hz
0.40 cycle @ 14Hz
0.56 cycle @ 13Hz
0.85 cycle @ 12Hz
1.22 cycles @ 11Hz
1.02 cycles @ 10Hz
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post #48 of 55 Old 03-11-2019, 02:10 PM
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What were your ported subs (volume, tune, driver) etc?
Drivers were budget kicker subs but i also redid tests with some on loan subs from friends with all 4 being same brand type for ported.
Concrete box 310 cubic feet with a 20 inch wide by 20 inch rectangular port and i tried several size pofts going from 30 hertz to 15 hertz and i was not happy with results.
I had friends and family over after every port tunning change to listen to the same piano opera edm songs and a three minute movie scene.

Pardon me but i gave up on ported and went ib then i redid the listening tests with freinds and family.

The results were better with ib but i need more ibsubwoofers more amps and a better listenkng room.

Yamaha avr, diy l c r surround Behringer nx3000 dsp Fi car audio ib318 v2 310 cubic foot concrete ib lg pf 1500 projector.steren projector mount.
Pending create diy riser Bass shakers , buy fourty 6 inch drivers for some new mains get new 4k projector
I can hear my wallet screaming already

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post #49 of 55 Old 03-11-2019, 02:18 PM
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I wanted more output. For that reason I needed to go ported. Admittedly, I know a lot more now then I did years ago, when I tore out the IB. But I don’t regret it. My ported subs sound wonderful to me, with headroom and plenty spl. (Please don’t quote me saying that!) I’d love to hear your IB and experience true uncolored bass.

Yup ok once my listening room is done i will send a pm.

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I can hear my wallet screaming already
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post #50 of 55 Old 03-11-2019, 02:21 PM
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Yup ok once my listening room is done i will send a pm.


Sounds good.
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post #51 of 55 Old 03-11-2019, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post
Drivers were budget kicker subs but i also redid tests with some on loan subs from friends with all 4 being same brand type for ported.
Concrete box 310 cubic feet with a 20 inch wide by 20 inch rectangular port and i tried several size pofts going from 30 hertz to 15 hertz and i was not happy with results.
I had friends and family over after every port tunning change to listen to the same piano opera edm songs and a three minute movie scene.

Pardon me but i gave up on ported and went ib then i redid the listening tests with freinds and family.

The results were better with ib but i need more ibsubwoofers more amps and a better listenkng room.
Were you running any dsp to shape the output? What did the measurements look like?
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post #52 of 55 Old 03-13-2019, 01:05 PM
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Were you running any dsp to shape the output? What did the measurements look like?
Pardon me but in my listening tests i went with the simpler the better.
I wanted to try dsp but then was wondering will the dsp be the deciding factor instead of testing my ported box?

Thus i asked myself whats the best listening room with low coloration modes?

My result was build a concrete box outside with no room modes to contend with then i tested ported then moved on to ib.

Then i built a concrete ib box inside a room and awaiting a behringer nx3000 dsp for a temp setup till my listening room is built.

I realize my final listening room with proper absoption and diffusion will be a humble affair compared to many others systems but i feel that 8 or 16 ib318 v2 subwoofers will be kinda ok results?

For lcr surround i am going to try linear array towers with 8 drivers per tower of 6 1.2 and 8 tweeters but undecided if silk dome or ribbon?
My listening is not too loud so i guess the number of speakers will be ok?
Thanks.

Yamaha avr, diy l c r surround Behringer nx3000 dsp Fi car audio ib318 v2 310 cubic foot concrete ib lg pf 1500 projector.steren projector mount.
Pending create diy riser Bass shakers , buy fourty 6 inch drivers for some new mains get new 4k projector
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post #53 of 55 Old 03-13-2019, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post
Pardon me but in my listening tests i went with the simpler the better.
I wanted to try dsp but then was wondering will the dsp be the deciding factor instead of testing my ported box?

Thus i asked myself whats the best listening room with low coloration modes?

My result was build a concrete box outside with no room modes to contend with then i tested ported then moved on to ib.

Then i built a concrete ib box inside a room and awaiting a behringer nx3000 dsp for a temp setup till my listening room is built.

I realize my final listening room with proper absoption and diffusion will be a humble affair compared to many others systems but i feel that 8 or 16 ib318 v2 subwoofers will be kinda ok results?

For lcr surround i am going to try linear array towers with 8 drivers per tower of 6 1.2 and 8 tweeters but undecided if silk dome or ribbon?
My listening is not too loud so i guess the number of speakers will be ok?
Thanks.
The native frequency response between ported, sealed, and IB will all vary greatly, unless you shape the responses to flat or similar to compare, the test is pointless.
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post #54 of 55 Old 03-14-2019, 12:12 PM
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The native frequency response between ported, sealed, and IB will all vary greatly, unless you shape the responses to flat or similar to compare, the test is pointless.
I intend to use the dsp on the behringer nx3000dsp to try and get as flat a response curve as posible on the box sitting outside and also on the box in the temp listening room.

I have a laptop with ubuntu and i guess i can go and get a good microphone but i have no idea what to do from there to test as far as seeing what frequency responses i get?

Someone said unibox for dummies like me.....err uninformed noobs like me
.?
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post #55 of 55 Old 03-14-2019, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally finished building my ported RSS 390HO! at least to the point I can use it.. Still have to veneer, etc. The same driver and amp were in a 3 cube sealed box, and now it's in a 4.4 ft ported box tuned to 21Hz. What's the difference? Just like everyone says, night and day. Much better output down low. I like it more for music, and especially more for HT. Much more thud and rumble. All driven by a "500" watt plate amp. I don't have any measurement equipment, so you might have to take my hand waving description with a grain of salt. I built a removable panel for the plate amp and port, so in case I decide to power it with a rack mount amp or tune the port length, it's easy.

Bottom line - if you can make room for a bigger cabinet, porting is well worth it. Pictures coming..
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