Subwoofer impedance with Beringer amp - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 20 Old 02-12-2019, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Subwoofer impedance with Beringer amp

Hey guys,

Longtime lurker first time poster. I'm having trouble finding any good info to my question. For now I'm planning on building a Johnny sub ported to 18-19 hz as detailed in other threads. I want to use a FI audio HT1 sub which comes in both single 2 or single 4 ohms voice coils.

I had been planning on using an nx3000d as I already have one running my mains and for now I'm only building one sub, but 2 is in my future as my room is yuugeeee. My problem is which is the best way to go as far as sub impedance?

If I had only been building one sub, a single 4 would be perfect wiring it up bridged and not using the full capacity of the amp. With the plan of 2 I'm not so sure. Should I do a 2 ohm coil and just run one channel until I get another? Get a 4 and use it bridged and buy another nx3000 when I do the other sub (will be at least 6-8 months). Do a nx6000?? Thanks for any advice!
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post #2 of 20 Old 02-12-2019, 08:28 PM
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The amp likely outputs max power at dual 2-ohm yeah?
Therefore from a watts perspective, two 2ohm loads is best.

If your goal is 4 subs on that amp, then 4 4-ohm in dual parallel would be best (dual 2ohm load).

So the answer is: It depends.
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post #3 of 20 Old 02-12-2019, 09:08 PM
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Impedance doesn't matter. What matters is what is easy for the amplifier to handle and for how long the amplifier can last at the load trying to power.

Just looking at the specs between HT-1 and HT-3 from Fi Car Audio. The HT-3 will be better to put into a ported box. The Qes of 0.45 is better than 0.57. Low Qes helps to control the woofer better in ported systems and make low tunings more effective. Save your money will give you a better woofer.

The 4-ohm will be safer to use on any amplifier even though the amplifier you are using can handle 2-ohm. Sure it can handle 2-ohm doesn't mean you should. Bridging the amplifier and using a 4-ohm load will put the same heavy load as 2-ohm load.

An amplifier with more power than you need compared to not enough is bad thing if you care for sound quality.
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post #4 of 20 Old 02-12-2019, 10:46 PM
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With the behringer 3000 you want to be driving 2 ohms per channel for maximum output. I have 2 dual voicecoil drivers per channel. Each voice coil is 2ohm. I wire each sub's coils in series which makes each driver 4ohm. Then those are wired in parallel netting 2ohns, which is right after you want to be. That will yield approximately 750W/driver.

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post #5 of 20 Old 02-13-2019, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
Impedance doesn't matter.
Yes it does.

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Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post

An amplifier with more power than you need compared to not enough is bad thing if you care for sound quality.
No it isn't. Headroom is always a good thing.
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post #6 of 20 Old 02-13-2019, 07:45 AM
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I have all 3 inukedsp models (ok more than 1 of each lol...)

The 6000 cannot do 2ohms, the 3000 and 1000 can.

There are no issues running the 1000 or 3000 at 2 ohms. A 1000 is rated about 400watts per channel at 2ohms, maybw 500peak, and the 3000 peaks at 1500, with a specified 1000watts as the rms.

Plenty of threads have demonstrated the rated power is higher than reality, but you will get about 80% of what they are rated.

BTH is mostly never wrong about anything sub related...you may not be aware he is not a person he is actually a sophisticated computer algorithm posing as a human in the remote woods, supposedly with 29 subs in his fallout shelter. (You know im right, bth)...

Anyway, if you go 2 ohm you will get enough wattage to put one on each channel. That assumes you want enough power available to really drive them well.

I have enough subs i dont even worry about max capability because living in a city even a house is a few feet from neighbors, so about 105 to 110db is all i usually use subwise.

But for just 2 subs you need a lot of power. Dont be surprised though if you end up wanting 4!
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post #7 of 20 Old 02-13-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dorri732 View Post
Yes it does.



No it isn't. Headroom is always a good thing.
You don't understand what I said. I said headroom is good thing if you want sound quality.

Low impedance like 2-ohms is a bad thing even though the amplifier can handle it. It's close to damaging the amplifier when the load is 2-ohm. Over long usage at once a 2-ohm load will damage the amplifier. The reason why it will damage is more current is required. The transistor pins is not thick enough to handle that amount of current over long periods. Also the limiter will kick in more often when using 2-ohms compared to 4-ohms. You are insisting that damaging the amplifier is a good thing and thinking safer is not a good thing. Over a long term use it's better to use 4-ohms instead of 2-ohms.
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post #8 of 20 Old 02-13-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
You don't understand what I said. I said headroom is good thing if you want sound quality.

Low impedance like 2-ohms is a bad thing even though the amplifier can handle it.
You said:

"An amplifier with more power than you need compared to not enough is bad thing if you care for sound quality."

I say that an amp with more power than you need is not a bad thing. You didn't say what you think you said.

Also, using a 2 ohm load with an amp designed for a 2 ohm load is not a bad thing.
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post #9 of 20 Old 02-13-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
You don't understand what I said. I said headroom is good thing if you want sound quality.



Low impedance like 2-ohms is a bad thing even though the amplifier can handle it. It's close to damaging the amplifier when the load is 2-ohm. Over long usage at once a 2-ohm load will damage the amplifier. The reason why it will damage is more current is required. The transistor pins is not thick enough to handle that amount of current over long periods. Also the limiter will kick in more often when using 2-ohms compared to 4-ohms. You are insisting that damaging the amplifier is a good thing and thinking safer is not a good thing. Over a long term use it's better to use 4-ohms instead of 2-ohms.
No... Pretty much to everything you said. The amp in my car was designed for Max output at 1 ohm! It has never cut out or popped a fuse, why? Because it was designed to drive that low impedance load.

The inuke 1000 and 3000 have been intentionally designed to drive a two ohm load. Sure, they will drive a 4ohm or higher load as well, but they will not make the maximum power they were designed to produce at the higher impedance. This is not subjective, or even open for debate. You don't have to believe it, but that will not change the truth of it.

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post #10 of 20 Old 02-14-2019, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dorri732 View Post
You said:

"An amplifier with more power than you need compared to not enough is bad thing if you care for sound quality."

I say that an amp with more power than you need is not a bad thing. You didn't say what you think you said.

Also, using a 2 ohm load with an amp designed for a 2 ohm load is not a bad thing.
You are taking it literally and not thinking. I should of word like the following.

"More power good...too little bad."

Again if a manufacture states that their amplifier can handle 2-ohms or very low loads be careful with this spec. Use low loads at your own risk.


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No... Pretty much to everything you said. The amp in my car was designed for Max output at 1 ohm! It has never cut out or popped a fuse, why? Because it was designed to drive that low impedance load.

The inuke 1000 and 3000 have been intentionally designed to drive a two ohm load. Sure, they will drive a 4ohm or higher load as well, but they will not make the maximum power they were designed to produce at the higher impedance. This is not subjective, or even open for debate. You don't have to believe it, but that will not change the truth of it.

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What is on for debate is you should state a warning about using a low load and what are the consequences. The consequences are fire. If you are OK with that risk, that is on you. It's not about maximum power. It's about being safe. You are suggesting and insisting that the OP takes a risk and you are alright for now. What I suggested is use a better and more efficient woofer which won't need to use 2-ohm version to get high loudness and safely use the 4-ohm.
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post #11 of 20 Old 02-14-2019, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
You are taking it literally and not thinking. I should of word like the following.

"More power good...too little bad."

Again if a manufacture states that their amplifier can handle 2-ohms or very low loads be careful with this spec. Use low loads at your own risk.



What is on for debate is you should state a warning about using a low load and what are the consequences. The consequences are fire. If you are OK with that risk, that is on you. It's not about maximum power. It's about being safe. You are suggesting and insisting that the OP takes a risk and you are alright for now. What I suggested is use a better and more efficient woofer which won't need to use 2-ohm version to get high loudness and safely use the 4-ohm.
Again, no. Very seldom do I come right out and say someone is wrong. In your case I will make an exception. There is NO risk driving something that the amp is rated for. Not some risk, not a little risk... NO risk. None. Perhaps you'd like to quote a knowledgeable source? I don't think you'll find one. Now if an amp is rated for an 8ohm load and you are driving 4ohm speakers, then that's another thing entirely. I think in the forum we should try and share good info. I myself got called out and in the end I think I was wrong because some things have changed in the last 20 years since I was last heavily into audio. Back in the day amps may well have had trouble driving low impedance loads. Not now -- especially when they are rated to do so.
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post #12 of 20 Old 02-15-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
Again if a manufacture states that their amplifier can handle 2-ohms or very low loads be careful with this spec. Use low loads at your own risk.

What is on for debate is you should state a warning about using a low load and what are the consequences. The consequences are fire. If you are OK with that risk, that is on you. It's not about maximum power. It's about being safe. You are suggesting and insisting that the OP takes a risk and you are alright for now. What I suggested is use a better and more efficient woofer which won't need to use 2-ohm version to get high loudness and safely use the 4-ohm.
If it's rated at 2-ohms... it's safe to use at 2-ohms as per the manufacturer. In the case of your 4-ohm example, if you have an amp that only is rated to run at 4-ohms, and you use a 4-ohm woofer, it is equally as likely to explode as an inuke 1000/3000 running on 2-ohms.

I'm all for being safe. Ignoring manufacturer ratings is just being silly and inefficient, however.
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post #13 of 20 Old 02-15-2019, 05:25 PM
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Again, no. Very seldom do I come right out and say someone is wrong. In your case I will make an exception. There is NO risk driving something that the amp is rated for. Not some risk, not a little risk... NO risk. None. Perhaps you'd like to quote a knowledgeable source? I don't think you'll find one. Now if an amp is rated for an 8ohm load and you are driving 4ohm speakers, then that's another thing entirely. I think in the forum we should try and share good info. I myself got called out and in the end I think I was wrong because some things have changed in the last 20 years since I was last heavily into audio. Back in the day amps may well have had trouble driving low impedance loads. Not now -- especially when they are rated to do so.
There are risks. Not knowing there are risks or pushing them aside is being arrogant. The following explains can you or should you use a powerful amplifier with a limited electrical system. The electrical system like AC there could be unlimited power. Ohms law shows that there are risks involved. More power more risks.

https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...tting-Grounded

Next time you are going do this PM me.
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post #14 of 20 Old 02-15-2019, 05:26 PM
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If it's rated at 2-ohms... it's safe to use at 2-ohms as per the manufacturer. In the case of your 4-ohm example, if you have an amp that only is rated to run at 4-ohms, and you use a 4-ohm woofer, it is equally as likely to explode as an inuke 1000/3000 running on 2-ohms.

I'm all for being safe. Ignoring manufacturer ratings is just being silly and inefficient, however.
I'm not saying ignoring manufacturer ratings. You are putting words in my mouth and taking this very literally. Get in contact with a high-level Behringer engineer that is part of the project of making iNuke amplifiers. The engineer will tell you what it can and can not do compared to marketing. I don't have the amplifier to measure all the traces and transistor pins to make sure the amplifier can handle the required current.

It's more efficient to use a more efficient speaker driver than using all the power of an amplifier. Amplifiers have non-linearities make the saying of using all the power of amplifier be a problem. I used many amplifiers of different class types and they work best up to 40% of their capability. Past this, they are not audibly efficient or sound quality suffers.

You are the installer. If you believe that 2-ohms is OK then go for it. Keep an eye on the voltage of your outlet because ohms law shows the limitation of the hardware.

Next time you are going do this PM me.
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post #15 of 20 Old 02-15-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
I'm not saying ignoring manufacturer ratings. You are putting words in my mouth and taking this very literally. Get in contact with a high-level Behringer engineer that is part of the project of making iNuke amplifiers. The engineer will tell you what it can and can not do compared to marketing. I don't have the amplifier to measure all the traces and transistor pins to make sure the amplifier can handle the required current.

It's more efficient to use a more efficient speaker driver than using all the power of an amplifier. Amplifiers have non-linearities make the saying of using all the power of amplifier be a problem. I used many amplifiers of different class types and they work best up to 40% of their capability. Past this, they are not audibly efficient or sound quality suffers.

You are the installer. If you believe that 2-ohms is OK then go for it. Keep an eye on the voltage of your outlet because ohms law shows the limitation of the hardware.

Next time you are going do this PM me.
That was a painful read, but that topic --how many watts are coming out, is ENTIRELY different than what you are suggesting. There is NO danger driving a load your amp was designed and rated for, none. I'm truly sorry, but you are apparently not qualified to speak on the subject.
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post #16 of 20 Old 02-15-2019, 06:32 PM
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That was a painful read, but that topic --how many watts are coming out, is ENTIRELY different than what you are suggesting. There is NO danger driving a load your amp was designed and rated for, none. I'm truly sorry, but you are apparently not qualified to speak on the subject.
You are qualified in the subject of electronics? Because your other posts doesn't seem so.

There are protections mechanisms in amplifiers, but don't always rely on them or else ohms law will teach you a lesson.

Again PM next time.
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post #17 of 20 Old 02-15-2019, 06:50 PM
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You are qualified in the subject of electronics? Because your other posts doesn't seem so.

There are protections mechanisms in amplifiers, but don't always rely on them or else ohms law will teach you a lesson.

Again PM next time.
Exactly one person has advocated your position, and that is you. I've taken several college level electrical classes and have been active involved in audio and speaker building for close to 40 years. I certainly don't know everything and I have plenty to learn. But my greatest weakness appears to be an inability to help you understand that low impedance, in itself, is not a problem for an amp designed to drive it. Could one turn up the amp to a level of abuse? Surely, but again that is not what we are talking about. We are also not talking about amps that are optimistically rated for output (which is what the article you posted is about). What we are talking about is amps driving an impedance load that they are rated for. THERE IS NOTHING DANGEROUS ABOUT DRIVING A LOAD AN AMP IS RATED FOR, PERIOD! You can believe whatever you like, I'm done -- evidently, I cannot help you.

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post #18 of 20 Old 02-18-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
You are qualified in the subject of electronics? Because your other posts doesn't seem so.

There are protections mechanisms in amplifiers, but don't always rely on them or else ohms law will teach you a lesson.

Again PM next time.
I would be loosely 'qualified in the subject of electronics', I guess. I don't believe there is a straight up 'qualification' for 'electronics', however.

You were advocating ignoring the manufacturer specifications, and I did not put any words in your mouth. You were saying that it is unsafe to run an amplifier at the manufacturer specifications. It seems that you have changed your approach and are now going down the 'sound quality' avenue, which again, is a moot point. It depends on the amplifier in question, and saying boldly that 2-ohms is 'not a good idea', is silly.

Ohms law has nothing to do with sound quality or safety in terms of blanket statements regarding amplifiers. Especially with switching power supplies, designers can put together an amplifier that is stable at higher currents and/or lower currents.

As a side note, if you want to bring in 'safety' to any electronics discussion, you probably want to use good 'ol Watt's Law instead of Ohms. Ohms just lets you know how much current is going around... Watts will let you know how much power you are dissipating... and hence when things may go wrong.
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post #19 of 20 Old 02-18-2019, 10:03 AM
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My best advice in avsforum is to never assume u know everything.

Ive learned a lot and been taught some of what i think is too simple or simply incorrect.

Its ok to learn, ok to not be 100% correct.

I think it is true that higher ohm loads are easier on amps, but i also think many car subs run on 1ohm loads...imagine that.

I also know i run 2ohm loads all the time as do many others and i never hear about fires if the amp is designed for 2ohms.

So my best advice is chill, learn, discuss and try to check your ego at the door so if you hear something you disagree with you have the ability to change your own opinion should you find out what you believe may only be partly true.

Thats how we get smarter...
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post #20 of 20 Old 02-19-2019, 07:06 PM
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Ive learned a lot and been taught some of what i think is too simple or simply incorrect.
...
I also know i run 2ohm loads all the time as do many others and i never hear about fires if the amp is designed for 2ohms.
...
Same.
And so far, my 2 ohm load (4 Dayton PA-460 in parallel cranked up to Motorhead) on one channel of my iNuke 3k has not caused one fire I could not put out. OK, really, no fires at all. Clipped the amp every once in a while (pop!) when I get into the red... but so far the amp comes right back.

(Wish the same could be said for the subs I killed)

If bad sound were Faital, good sound would be almost impossible
Killed two Mach5 21s and three UM-18s (and counting?)

Last edited by bebb; 02-19-2019 at 07:07 PM. Reason: added amp model
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