Help with DIY behind the couch subwoofer box - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 13Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 81 Old 02-17-2019, 08:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 490
I would build as many subs as i could even with a 100watt amp.

Using all the power is meaningless...what do you want?

2 subs 1 watt each better than 1 sub with 50watts imo.

4 subs 1 watt each better than 1 sub any wattage (imo)

In this cheap and good driver world the #of drivers is always the limiting factor not power

More drivers make less power even more efficient...crazy but the reason this thread concept is so good.

Am i wrong? Well if you have 100 drivers running 100watts do the math its gonna do some major damage!

Power is good...drivers are better
RoboAVS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 81 Old 02-17-2019, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
1. A single sub as configured only can take 325 watts before having issues. Meaning....

500 watt amp = 2 drivers.

2. I was talking about the height. Seems like you have a couple more inches up too you could use. The larger the box for 2 drivers the better.

3. If going with 2 JBLs You will need something with DSP. The highpass should be 23 which is higher than what most plate amps do (20hz). If you stick with one, then no need as it will have a built in highpass right where you want it.

4. The sealed box will take up to 2k watts before having issues. Meaning buy what you can now power wise knowing you could do more later.

With sealed you also don’t need to worry about highpass filters, so DSP isn’t “needed” (though most of us are using a shelf filter to bring up the bottom end). But you could go without to see how you like it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
1. A single sub as configured only can take 325 watts before having issues. Meaning....

500 watt amp = 2 drivers.

2. I was talking about the height. Seems like you have a couple more inches up too you could use. The larger the box for 2 drivers the better.

3. If going with 2 JBLs You will need something with DSP. The highpass should be 23 which is higher than what most plate amps do (20hz). If you stick with one, then no need as it will have a built in highpass right where you want it.

4. The sealed box will take up to 2k watts before having issues. Meaning buy what you can now power wise knowing you could do more later.

With sealed you also don’t need to worry about highpass filters, so DSP isn’t “needed” (though most of us are using a shelf filter to bring up the bottom end). But you could go without to see how you like it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1. I played with the dimensions and while I could go higher, I would have to shrink the top panel, so it comes out as a wash in net cubic feet. It seems that the best I could do, once you factor in the loss of space for the amp, driver, maybe two braces(are these necessary with 3/4 mdf and the narrowness?) and the port, is best case 4 cubic feet.

2. If I go with one driver/300 watt amp, should I tune to 25hz?

3. I want to go with a PA amp, it totally checks the most watts per dollar box, but it doesn't have Auto On/Off, might be loudish, adds a layer of complexity should my family want to use it and most importantly it won't fit in the cabinet I have.

4. Is there anyway to go with say a wider port or a boxed port or something to eliminate 35" long ports? That seems like I am going to lose a TON of cubic feet to these baseball bat shaped ports.

5. What I don't understand about the sealed plot you showed with 4 drivers is that the output at say 20 hz is above the single driver ported box I have, but as it increases to say 50, to the ear wouldn't that drastic of a change in SPL be pretty obvious (like my cheap sub now, 20hz- basically nothing, 30hz louder, 50hz much much louder). Is that where a DSP amp comes into play so you can boost those lower frequencies? Said another way, the black line doesn't look as "flat" as the ported box I put together. I know I am missing something.

Estimate
4.796006944 5x17x75+Triangle (I.D.)
0.1 Minus Volume of driver
0.5 Minus volume of Port
0.1 Minus volume of amp
4.096006944 Total volume
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #33 of 81 Old 02-19-2019, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarkoff500 View Post
Port length will be determined by driver and box size, shape isn't as important unless the port end is close to baffle/side as this may effectively change the port length (like the VBSS where the end of the port is close to the back of the cabinet and the functional length of the port is increased).

And you are correct that every increase in driver number should increase box volume assuming the box is approximately the correct size for one driver at the required tuning/performance parameters.

You can play around with this in Winisd to get an idea.
Zarkoff, I've made my way through a little over half of the JBL Black Friday thread and I am getting some real FOMO by only having one of theses possibly. @EndersShadow also gave me a nudge towards using more than one driver.

In all seriousness, how did you get away with such a short port compared to the 35" long double 4" mentioned for my build earlier? Are you using that Dayton 240 plate amp still with good results, I was thinking of the Bash 300w? Is your build posted anywhere and I missed it? How good is good, like better than HTIB good or SVS PB-2000 good? Will a single 12" with 300 watts stomp a HTIB 120 ported 10"?

I'm dying for info here and like I said seeing these 4/8/12 driver builds is killing my mojo for this DIY project.

Please convince me before I just slap down the credit card and build a wall of these things per Endersshadow's instructions. What started out in my mind as a big improvement from my current set-up has become a feeling of inadequacy that I am building a baby/amateur subwoofer. Not hating, seriously jealous and anxious that I'm gonna build a weakling.
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 81 Old 02-19-2019, 06:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
Zarkoff500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 563
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapSpeakerGuy View Post
Zarkoff, I've made my way through a little over half of the JBL Black Friday thread and I am getting some real FOMO by only having one of theses possibly. @EndersShadow also gave me a nudge towards using more than one driver.

In all seriousness, how did you get away with such a short port compared to the 35" long double 4" mentioned for my build earlier? Are you using that Dayton 240 plate amp still with good results, I was thinking of the Bash 300w? Is your build posted anywhere and I missed it? How good is good, like better than HTIB good or SVS PB-2000 good? Will a single 12" with 300 watts stomp a HTIB 120 ported 10"?

I'm dying for info here and like I said seeing these 4/8/12 driver builds is killing my mojo for this DIY project.

Please convince me before I just slap down the credit card and build a wall of these things per Endersshadow's instructions. What started out in my mind as a big improvement from my current set-up has become a feeling of inadequacy that I am building a baby/amateur subwoofer. Not hating, seriously jealous and anxious that I'm gonna build a weakling.
I based my build losely off the SVS PB12 NSD which I used to have. Yes, I am still using the 240 watt Dayton amp (puts out more than 400 peak) with good results. It is not as flat as the SVS but to my ears decent and has a similar sound signature. Much better than a HTIB sub.

I am not sure why more folks aren't making 3.5 cft or larger ported boxes with these tuned to about 20 HZ. I would have been pretty happy with running two of these in my house but was unable due to SAF. Attached are my Winisd models. You will see a rising curve and my in room close mic response which somewhat matches. I also attached the cut sheet list if interested.

No build thread. I just made it with some help from LTD02 to verify the port length and used it.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CS1214 20 HZ winisd SPL.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	151.6 KB
ID:	2528244   Click image for larger version

Name:	CS1214 20 HZ winisd port velocity.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	140.7 KB
ID:	2528246   Click image for larger version

Name:	CS1214 20 HZ winisd excursion.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	155.3 KB
ID:	2528248   Click image for larger version

Name:	JBL CS1214 3.5 cft 20 hz close mic.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	58.1 KB
ID:	2528250   Click image for larger version

Name:	CS1214 20 hz cut diagram.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	92.4 KB
ID:	2528252  

Zarkoff500 is online now  
post #35 of 81 Old 02-21-2019, 06:04 PM
Senior Member
 
K9woofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MB
Posts: 358
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboAVS View Post
4 subs 1 watt each better than 1 sub any wattage (imo)
Please model this with the single sub given full power and post the results with a graph.
K9woofer is offline  
post #36 of 81 Old 02-21-2019, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
So I've found some iNuke 1000's used that appear around my budget for a Bash 300. I'm not toying with the idea of starting with 1 in a ported box and if it's not "enough" adding two more to make it a 3 driver "sealed" box. 1 @ 4 Cu Ft ported or 3 @ 1.333 Cu Ft each sealed (or 4 cu ft total).

Like most things in my life I am sure I am over thinking this.

I'd just hate to go with a single ported sub and lower wattage and wonder what could have been.

Does anyone know of a good way to hide an iNuke box? Can I trim off the tabs on the side and make it narrower? 19 inches won't fit in cabinet but 17 will.

In other news, my first (only?) JBL arrived. I know this is a non-event for all you 16 driver folks, but I'm still smiling just seeing the thing! My car audio days must have been with dual 10's I do not remember ever having woofers this large in my hands. 12" is a BIG woofer.
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #37 of 81 Old 02-21-2019, 07:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1276 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Try holding a 18 or 24 lol.... then you poop your pants.... especially when you realize guys are running those in their Left, Right and Center...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
smcmillan2 likes this.

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is online now  
post #38 of 81 Old 02-21-2019, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Try holding a 18 or 24 lol.... then you poop your pants.... especially when you realize guys are running those in their Left, Right and Center...
I think what is most crazy to me is looking at pics in the JBL thread and seeing builds like yours with 4 or 8 of these things. Holding one in my hands and seeing a wall of these things puts things in perspective. Can't wait to get it built and feel a movie with one. I've honestly never really even been in a nice home theater (not saying mine is or will be) so experiencing even a 12" will be my first time.
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #39 of 81 Old 02-22-2019, 12:25 AM
Member
 
Rjloper9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Central, PA
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Check out the BOSS in this thread. would go under your couch on a very thin "riser." Start at Post #12 .

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...deaway+theater

Last edited by Rjloper9; 02-22-2019 at 12:37 AM.
Rjloper9 is offline  
post #40 of 81 Old 02-22-2019, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Alright, put in about an hour of listening today with my 10". Here is what I liked and disliked. I am trying to hone in on what arrangement I need.

I already have 1 JBL 12" (not installed or built), I'm still toying with 1 12" ported box to 20/25hz with 300 plate amp or 3 x 12" in 1.3 cu ft sealed with an inuke 1000DSP (obviously way more work to get set-up and maybe more cost if I have to get a mic).

What I don't like about current set-up, some songs the bass is ON or nothing.
-Steely Dan - Do it Again, 17 seconds in, was clearly hitting on some bass, but not on others. This I assume is an Eq thing, it wasn't that it was missing hits, it was just on or off. Clear gap in bass coming on certain notes. Bass was 1.0+ db in AVR and set to about 75% gain on back, sub does not have EQ on plate amp (it's that cheap)
-Other music, very boomy, definitely rattling maybe something in the room
-Bass doesn't sound "tight", rather than a punch it feels like a "push" if that makes sense.

I could potentially do two 12"s in separate 1.3 boxes, but I am just afraid of how much set-up that would be and additional cost getting a mic and turning on inuke every time i want to listen. With the ported box I worry about "tightness" or speed of the bass.

Also, we watch family movies alot and if the bass is over the top my wife will freak and insist we go to TV only speakers (which is painful as hell). She already refuses to watch movies in surround sound because the rear noises scare her. I'd like a system that I could adjust the feel of the subs to the listener. Me? All-in not over the top bass heavy, but I don't mind tactile feel and the oompf of bass. Family, a tiny bit of tactile feel but overall roundness to the sound that doesn't intrude on clarity.

P.S. I'm excited just to have this 12" monster in my house. My goal is to have this thing built and set-up before S8 of Game of Thrones. I anticipate a lot of deep dragon sounds!

Last edited by CheapSpeakerGuy; 02-22-2019 at 08:17 PM.
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #41 of 81 Old 02-23-2019, 08:34 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 490
It may seem like you are taking a plunge buying a measurement mic and learning to measure but i can confidently tell you it is one of the 2 most rewarding things you can do to your room. If you think about it your hesitation is in finding out how bad it really is...but then you learn to fix it.

There are issues in how it is setup AND issues with what a 10 can and cannot do.

Treating your room is the other magic moment imo. Believe it or not this is what your wife does not like...the untreated room.

Many ht people learn to like the boom of their room! They hate when a friend comes over and says wow that is booming...they usually get used to music sounding a certain way. In a treated room unwanted boom is reduced or eliminated, scary sounds that are too boosted are also eliminated...its truly remarkable. Many sub fans take weeks to relearn what bass should sound like after treating or more frequently running room correction for the first time.

Most of my friends understand how much better my treated room is than the untreated...but are unwilling to consider what they normally listen to is mediocre at best and its due to a lack of appreciation for how sound works in most rooms.

99.9999% of enthusiasts spend all their time thinking about equipment upgrades instead of improving their room. Stats pulled directly from my rear lol.

Last edited by RoboAVS; 02-23-2019 at 08:40 AM.
RoboAVS is offline  
post #42 of 81 Old 02-24-2019, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Thanks for the info @RoboAVS .

1. @Zarkoff500 , I modeled your box and according to the port dimension calculators I used, I get drastically different numbers. More similar to what @EndersShadow s suggested, 2 4" ports 35" long.

2. I ordered a refurb Dayton SPA250 and I'm going to try ported first. I am really tight on funds now and if I don't get enough out of this then I'll go to multiple sealed with an iNuke DSP and sell the Dayton Plate Amp. Has anyone had success gluing white PVC to premade precision 4" ports? What I mean is, if I get some flared outside precision ports, will they fit in or around some sewer (thin) gauge 4" pvc?
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #43 of 81 Old 02-24-2019, 08:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1276 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
I’m not good at figuring out slot ports, but from a build perspective they are MUCH MUCH MUCH easier.

You have more than enough length and width to do one, and then no need to worry about PVC.

I’d try to see what a slot port would need to be built to and go with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is online now  
post #44 of 81 Old 02-24-2019, 09:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by K9woofer View Post
Please model this with the single sub given full power and post the results with a graph.
Find me ANY person here at avsforum who has had 1 sub and also 4 subs and would take 1 sub over 4
i will then gladly post for you the smoothing benefits of 4 subs vs 1

perhaps at 250watts you might prefer say 108db spl as one sub works hard, you might get 114db momentarily with a lot of distortion at 1000watts

ill gladly take 102db using 4 watts with no distortion
then, add a bit more power to the 4, assuming you dont use a tube amp and you destroy the 1 sub

16 watts total i match the 1 sub
32 watts and beyond i beat 1 sub in every possible way

32 watts 4 subs vs 250watts 1 sub even beats it in spl, but spl is far from everything
RoboAVS is offline  
post #45 of 81 Old 02-25-2019, 07:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
Raylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboAVS View Post
Find me ANY person here at avsforum who has had 1 sub and also 4 subs and would take 1 sub over 4
i will then gladly post for you the smoothing benefits of 4 subs vs 1

perhaps at 250watts you might prefer say 108db spl as one sub works hard, you might get 114db momentarily with a lot of distortion at 1000watts

ill gladly take 102db using 4 watts with no distortion
then, add a bit more power to the 4, assuming you dont use a tube amp and you destroy the 1 sub

16 watts total i match the 1 sub
32 watts and beyond i beat 1 sub in every possible way

32 watts 4 subs vs 250watts 1 sub even beats it in spl, but spl is far from everything

I mean....I think your original statement wasn't exactly technically correct, and kind of silly. I think 99.9999% of people would easily take one UM18 with 1000 watts over four UM18s with 1 watt. There would be no competition. I understand your sentiment. I think saying 4 subs with 1/8th the power of a single of the same sub maybe a better comparison.
Raylon is offline  
post #46 of 81 Old 02-25-2019, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylon View Post
I mean....I think your original statement wasn't exactly technically correct, and kind of silly. I think 99.9999% of people would easily take one UM18 with 1000 watts over four UM18s with 1 watt. There would be no competition. I understand your sentiment. I think saying 4 subs with 1/8th the power of a single of the same sub maybe a better comparison.
If for some reason the 1 ported 4 cu ft sub doesn't cut it with a 300 watt amp, I plan to plug and remove the ports, buy two more and run them sealed at about 1.3 cu ft per sub with 100 watts per sub (same amp). If that happens then I'll be able to tell you exactly which sounds better and moves more air!

It would literally be same position, same wattage only, 3 subs sealed vs 1 sub ported. Should be interesting.

Amp is on it's way, I got the Dayton SPA 250, sub is already here. Will take some photos of the build. I do still need to pick up a router jig.

Last edited by CheapSpeakerGuy; 02-25-2019 at 07:08 PM.
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #47 of 81 Old 02-25-2019, 07:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1276 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
If you go sealed it’s best to go w 4 for a 4 ohm load. Best use of your plate amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is online now  
post #48 of 81 Old 02-26-2019, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I'm coming up with all different slight variations to overall volume of the box. Here is a very rough sketch obviously not to scale in any means. I'm trying to figure out the exact internal volume so that I can than get the port lengths right. Would anyone care to be a saint and check my math on volume and port length?

Outside measurements with 3/4 mdf are Width - 76.5", Height - 18.5", Depth 1 - 6", Depth 2 - 9"
Inside Measurements with 3/4 mdf are Width 75", Height - 17", Depth 1 ~ 4.5", Depth 2 ~ 7.5"

Calculation of volume reached by the following:
Box 4.5 17 75 5737.5 cubic inches 3.3203125 cubic ft
Triangle 3 17 75 3825 cubic inches 1.106770833 cubic ft

Total
4.43 Cubic Feet
0.10 Minus Volume of driver
0.19 Minus volume of Port ((4.25/2)*3.14)*24 approximately x 2 ports

4.14 Total volume

I know my sketch is all bad...

I'm currently thinking a 25hz tune is better for my 80/20 movies/music?

Note: Until I am positive that I am sticking with a ported box and a single woofer, I am going to keep my SPA 250 Dayton outside of the box, so I don't need to factor in that lose of volume yet. If I ever decide to stick with the ported box, i'll pull out woofer, cut hole for amp and cut down the ports.

For some reason my cone excursion and my rear port velocity look bad?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190226_212238.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	679.6 KB
ID:	2531548   Click image for larger version

Name:	SPL - 250 W 4.14 cu ft 1 driver ported.PNG
Views:	15
Size:	29.5 KB
ID:	2531552   Click image for larger version

Name:	Cone excursion.PNG
Views:	14
Size:	46.0 KB
ID:	2531554   Click image for larger version

Name:	Air port velocity.PNG
Views:	17
Size:	38.6 KB
ID:	2531556  
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #49 of 81 Old 02-26-2019, 08:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1276 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Did you add in a highpass filter at the same frequency as the port tune?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is online now  
post #50 of 81 Old 02-26-2019, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Ummmmmmmmmmmm, no......
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #51 of 81 Old 02-26-2019, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I just tried this, it certainly helped things, not sure I did it right.

From Parts-Express:

"• Subsonic filter 12 dB/octave high-pass filter centered at 20 Hz "
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Filter.PNG
Views:	22
Size:	35.0 KB
ID:	2531584  
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #52 of 81 Old 02-26-2019, 08:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1276 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Nope you did it right. If this is the Cone Excursion graph then you are ok.

The tested XMech for this driver is about 16mm.

So you are ABOVE the manufacture rated Xmas, but within driver tolerance once you get below 25hz.

This is why I said a more powerful plate amp would do you no good. You’d be unable to fully use the power without causing driver damage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is online now  
post #53 of 81 Old 02-26-2019, 09:56 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylon View Post
I mean....I think your original statement wasn't exactly technically correct, and kind of silly. I think 99.9999% of people would easily take one UM18 with 1000 watts over four UM18s with 1 watt. There would be no competition. I understand your sentiment. I think saying 4 subs with 1/8th the power of a single of the same sub maybe a better comparison.
True...👍, but i dont think i was writing to be 100% technically correct.

With the right driver i would take 4 at 1 watt over 1 driver at max. And with umax18s i would take 8 at 1 watt each over 1 at any wattage. Its only the low sensitivity of the umax that throws off the ratio.
RoboAVS is offline  
post #54 of 81 Old 02-27-2019, 09:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1276 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Lastly just to mention this, the SPA 250 has a bass boost of +6db @ 35hz you can turn on (its off by default).

See #13 in the manual (linked here)

You could that that into WinISD to see if it would help or hurt you as well. Dayton doesnt list the Q for the filter, so I wouldn't know what to tell you to put there beyond leaving the default alone...

My initial thought is that more than likely that will NOT be help you as much as hurt you, but without knowing the Q value its going to be hard to see how MUCH it would hurt you (by putting the driver beyond 16mm excursion farther up in the frequency spectrum).

Its easier to make two models to see the difference.

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is online now  
post #55 of 81 Old 02-27-2019, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Back to the drawing board on amp power. Received the refurb Dayton 250 today and DOA. Nothing no matter how I tried to hook it up.

If the Behringer had an auto-on and would fit in entertainment center I'd probably just bite the bullet and get one.
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #56 of 81 Old 02-27-2019, 07:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1276 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapSpeakerGuy View Post
Back to the drawing board on amp power. Received the refurb Dayton 250 today and DOA. Nothing no matter how I tried to hook it up.



If the Behringer had an auto-on and would fit in entertainment center I'd probably just bite the bullet and get one.

Why does auto on matter? I leave ALL my amps on 24/7. Class D doesn’t draw much power in idle (one of its benefits over Class A/B, which I also run).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is online now  
post #57 of 81 Old 02-27-2019, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Why does auto on matter? I leave ALL my amps on 24/7. Class D doesn’t draw much power in idle (one of its benefits over Class A/B, which I also run).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I read that the Behringers pull 40-60 watts even when turned off.
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #58 of 81 Old 02-27-2019, 07:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1276 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Help with DIY behind the couch subwoofer box

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapSpeakerGuy View Post
I read that the Behringers pull 40-60 watts even when turned off.

Eh, then just turn em off w the button lol....

My amps would all be manual turn off as well.

And honestly what’s the cost per month if the power that one amp would draw? Couple bucks?

My Two Crown XLS, Two Chane 3600, and B&K 200.5 haven’t affected my power bill enough for my wife to notice soo....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is online now  
post #59 of 81 Old 02-27-2019, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Hmm, okay, say I got a NU1000 without DSP.

Would that be over powered for 1 in a ported box? Seems like it would be over excursion limit.
CheapSpeakerGuy is offline  
post #60 of 81 Old 02-27-2019, 08:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1276 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapSpeakerGuy View Post
Hmm, okay, say I got a NU1000 without DSP.



Would that be over powered for 1 in a ported box? Seems like it would be over excursion limit.

Without the DSP your screwed for a ported box. You have no way of implementing a highpass (which is required for a ported box), so any frequency in a live below your port tune, say EOT, will drive your woofer to mechanical failure.

You WILL require something to implement a highpass (the plate amps have them baked in already for you).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off