DIYSG Titan 615LX vs Boston Acoustics VR3 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 127Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
@Soulburner - hmmm, its actually the Bostons that would be fatiguing so far, they are the brighter speaker. The Titans are a little warmer and richer.
SteveCallas is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 07:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,882
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1182 Post(s)
Liked: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
I
For the Titans, im not sure how to create more dispersed sound. The focused sound is a strength on the songs it won but also a weakness on the songs it lost. Maybe i will try pointing them slightly off axis of my main seat to the outsides.

You mean toe them out? Exactly wrong IMO. Toe them in such that the axes cross a foot or so in front of your head. That will give stronger late reflections (wider and deeper acoustic scene) and not diminish focus much. That’s almost always the ideal rotation for CD waveguides

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
DS-21 is offline  
post #33 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
Ahh, thank you @DS-21 , did not know that. Then that is what I will try.
SteveCallas is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
Got some landscaping work done this morning along with a few other chores and then have been listening again since. I decided to toe the Bostons in a bit more to see if that would improve detail and reduce room interaction, and same for the Titans per DS-21s recommendation to increase room interaction. Level matched both to 85db with pink noise from the cd again, both receivers in pure direct.

Ode to Humanity (also known as Aria) - the Bostons are slightly clearer on the female vocals, especialy when they sing together, you can make out distinction

Bizette - this was really meant to be a dynamics test, its instrumental only, and for as loud as I want to go, neither speaker exhibits any advantage here

Fever - the toe in on the Bostons has made the speakers sound almost identical. I can switch speakers without pausing the music in just a couple seconds and you would think I wasn't actually switching speakers if you weren't concentrating. The main difference is that the Titans are only able to place vocals in one dimension of depth. They can move it left and right, but in terms of front and back, you are kind stuck with all vocals about 3 feet in front of your seat on most songs. The Bostons can vary it more, and they have Ray a bit further back on the mid left and Natalie a bit further up on the mid right. You lose that detail with the Titans. Advantage Bostons.

Babbino Caro - dead heat, speakers sound virtually identical, even in quick switch

All I Really Want - Bostons with a clear advantage here, more energy and more engaging, her voice sounds so real.

9th Symphony - Bostons again, more energy when the choir sings. The harshness that came from the extra brightness from the other night is gone by toeing these in more, what's left is more detail and more energy.

Get Out of My Dreams - Billy Ocean was meant to be played on these VR3s, because the Titans seem a bit flat in comparison, mostly in the vocals and horns. Best way to describe it again, like with Caribbean Queen, is the Bostons make you want to move your feet, but the Titans don't generate that engagement.

O Fortuna - neither speakers exhibits a dynamics advantage, but with the choir vocals, the Bostons sound clearer and more realistic. At this point I was wondering if I calibrated correctly, so I skipped back to the pink noise and triple checked, and they were both right on 85db, C weighting, slow response time.

Bulls On Parade - wow, something has to be amiss, the Bostons sound a LOT better on this, even just in the first 10 seconds guitar intro. Titans just sounding flat in comparison. I put the toe in back to the way it was last night with the Titans AND I went ahead and gave it an extra 0.5db just because they should not be losing as bad as they were on this song. I tried it again, and the advantage is still to the Bostons, they are just clearer.


I'll spare every single song on the disc, but this pattern continued. Either the speakers sounded identical with no clear winner, or the Bostons sounded clearer, more realistic, or more engaging. For All Seasons, Green River, Daniel's Triumph, all going to the VR3s.

Hold My Hand - wow again, I wish someone else was here to listen with me to see if I am crazy or what, but the detail and clarity on the VR3s is easily standing out over the Titans. Like not subtle. The Titans still sound great, but there is that thin veil, the VR3s sound like a REAL guitar on the first 16 seconds. I decided to go back to the beginning of the track to see if the Bostons fared any better with the songs it lost on last night with the more aggressive toe in. They did, the trend continued even with yesterdays songs. The overt brightness was gone and exchanged for more detail and clarity. As mentioned, the Bostons can place things in depth and the Titans struggle in this area, and the Titans are being controlled by the more audiophile, beefier receiver. This is honestly what I was fearing, to my ears, the way they are positioned right now, these things are world beaters, I'd match them up against anything, and I should have known better than to buy without listening first.

What to do now. The Titans aren't by any means bad - they are right there with the VR3s, but they are missing that last 5%. The sensitivity isn't any issue, they are separated by 6db. For me, max output capability has never been an issue, I listen to movies at -12 and the VR3s don't sweat it, and music is much easier than that.

I could use the Titans as LCR for movies, the VR3s as wides, and when I want to listen to music, pull the VR3s in a bit from each wall and use them as the mains. Music sounds a bit better not being behind the AT screen anyway, though I'm sure Audyssey can overcome that....I just never had the VR3s toe'd in this aggressively behind the screen before.

I could sell the Titans locally too I guess. Thoughts? I won't rush to a judgment, it's only day 2.
DavidK442, bimmaguy and ArtemF like this.
SteveCallas is online now  
post #35 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
I hope these impressions are helpful, I wish more had existed on these and other diy offerings. All I seemed to hear was how they were leaps and bounds better than anything else - I recall one owner replaced Paradigm Studio 100s with Titans and they made it out to be like it wasn't even a contest. While I have compared the VR3s to the 100s and preferred the VR3s, I just can't see how the Titans vs 100s would be a slam dunk no contest not worthy of detailed impressions, I'm sure there are some merits to be discussed for each.

If anyone was considering the Titans and you have any questions you think my setup or situation might be able to answer, let me know. I can answer on the VR3s as well, but those are no longer for sale. Boston made a few other series after them, but the A series is very different and not as good (I own some A series bookshelves, the tweeter is not as clear). I never got the hear the VS series, but from what I read it was actually supposed to be better than the VR series.

One of the misconceptions I had was that the Titans were going to have a ton of midbass and sound like JBL speakers you hear at a club or live event, where each bass note pressurizes your chest. Luckily that is NOT the case, that is a function of boosted bass from EQ - the Titans are very neutral from top to bottom.

Last edited by SteveCallas; 04-21-2019 at 06:22 PM.
SteveCallas is online now  
post #36 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 06:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,882
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1182 Post(s)
Liked: 661
Do you have sidewall "treatments" in your room? If so, consider removing them.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
DS-21 is offline  
post #37 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
@DS-21 - to what end? I use 15 channel surround sound in this dedicated room, i want to attenuate soom reflections.
SteveCallas is online now  
post #38 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 06:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,882
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1182 Post(s)
Liked: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
@DS-21 - to what end?
Sound quality.

"Treatments" pretty much make every room sound crappy regardless of the loudspeakers, but in the case of narrow directivity speakers you're basically killing any opportunity for the late reflections that provide spaciousness and depth.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
DS-21 is offline  
post #39 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
Yeah ill have to pass on that one.
DavidK442 and Trimlock like this.
SteveCallas is online now  
post #40 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 07:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mtg90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millbrook, IL
Posts: 1,936
Mentioned: 574 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Liked: 1573
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
You mean toe them out? Exactly wrong IMO. Toe them in such that the axes cross a foot or so in front of your head. That will give stronger late reflections (wider and deeper acoustic scene) and not diminish focus much. That’s almost always the ideal rotation for CD waveguides
I wouldn't do that, depending on the room and listening distance a stronger inward toe will tend to collapse the sound field especially with speaker that exhibit greater directivity. It often gives stronger phantom imaging between the speakers but you loose outward ambiance. This usually isn't an issue with movies or multichannel content where the surrounds will add that back in but for stereo music playback less toe is often better especially in well treated rooms where those reflections that help to create ambiance and spaciousness will already be minimized.

For music in my room I found that I liked the toe on the speakers such that they are aimed quite a bit behind the MLP (so very little toe).

But I would like the stress that finding the ideal toe angle is largely speaker, room and listening preference dependent.


Separate from that discussion I'd also like to add that the Titan crossover here must be one of the last of the older batch before the decision was made to remove the 33 ohm resistors from the design. If you haven't already done this I would try and cut a lead on those resistors to take them out of the circuit, it makes a small but noticeable difference on the midrange.
mcallister likes this.

Last edited by mtg90; 04-21-2019 at 08:01 PM.
mtg90 is offline  
post #41 of 260 Old 04-21-2019, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
Care to point me in the right direction? Are you referring to the one in the upper left going perpendicular to the others?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	81F32C0D-E5FA-481E-97F8-6F4875D6F077_1555903519073.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	89.2 KB
ID:	2556662  
SteveCallas is online now  
post #42 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 07:49 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Yes you are correct the top left hand corner one, I just checked a picture I have of my titan 615lx crossover and that’s the one you have and I do not, just finished painting mine yesterday and running some 200feet of wire in my ceiling tonight. Had to remove my entertainment center to a closet to fit the titans.
[email protected] is offline  
post #43 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 07:50 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 36
For reference
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2C13CA07-7622-4AC9-9265-5EED433D50A0_1555944627401.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	95.2 KB
ID:	2556720  
[email protected].com is offline  
post #44 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
Ok, so i will remove that on each one as well as dial back the toe in and retest some songs tonight. Thanks.
SteveCallas is online now  
post #45 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 10:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 7,349
Mentioned: 290 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1845 Post(s)
Liked: 2637
Sounds like you shouldn't have moved the speakers. Or the landscaping work you did before the second listening wore out your ears! (Just kidding)

Out of 15 songs in your first test you liked the Titans 10 to 5. Second test after moving them was 0 out of 10. That's quite a swing and sounds like changing their position didn't work so well. The position they were in during your first test must work better.

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project

Last edited by Erich H; 04-22-2019 at 11:10 AM.
Erich H is offline  
post #46 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
I dont think the Titans got worse, i think toeing in the VR3s made them better, it reduced some of the extra brightness and room interaction. I toed them in to where from my seat, the baffle of the VR3s was pointed directly at me, i couldnt see either side of the speaker.

With the Titans yesterday, i started with more toe in, but i eventually toed them back out like the day before AND bumped them up 0.5db higher.

Titans still win on cellos!
ArtemF likes this.
SteveCallas is online now  
post #47 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 12:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dtsdig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 2,992
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1123 Post(s)
Liked: 1384
Steve, I'm enjoying the detailed comparison so far. It is not often someone takes the time to do such a thing once the new speakers are in place. That being said, have the Titans been broken in beyond the few listening sessions you've done so far?
dtsdig is offline  
post #48 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
Depends what you consider break in - ive never been a big believer in break in outside of say the first 5 minutes of playing music. I let them play for a bit the very first time before switching back and forth, but only for a bit. Nothing like what some folks do letting speakers play continuously for 24 hours.

I want them to get a fair shake, so ill play them on loop for an hour when i get home before i do any critical listening, as well as remove the crossover components, as well as square them up more in the room.
chirpie likes this.
SteveCallas is online now  
post #49 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 04:14 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 36
I believe some in break in but not the way you think, short maybe 5-15 minutes at 25-50% volume to get the flexible parts moving then running at max (if you have the power) to move the surround and spider to their max position as they will be a little stiff until fully extended. Now whether this affects sound quality or affects in by any noticeable amount I’m not sure. In my case owning these titans as well I will never be able to run them at 100% power as that’s 3000+ wattts just for the front stage.
[email protected] is offline  
post #50 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 04:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Few thoughts I had while perusing this thread.

1. Forgoing equalization doesn't give a realistic comparison of how the speakers will be used in practice.

2. Single speaker mono listening is very valid point of comparison for frequency response and clarity. I do this lot when building and designing speakers.

3. Take listening position measurements of each speaker in both A and B spots and compare that both spots have same freq response (probably not). While your measuring, nearfield and 1M gated frequency response and distortion measurements could be handy.

4. You seem to like bright speakers. Add 3-5db at 10-12khz to the Titans to see if they sound better to you.

5. Toe out Titans for wider sound stage.

6. Break in the Titans. Pro audio drivers, woofers especially need to be broke in. The T/S shift after a driver gets broke in can be substantial sometimes.

7. Try some movie clips, it is what the Titans were built for after all.

8. Stereo imaging comparisons are going to matter quite a bit less when placed in a surround sound.
eng-399 likes this.

Last edited by BigJake82; 04-22-2019 at 04:58 PM.
BigJake82 is offline  
post #51 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I believe some in break in but not the way you think, short maybe 5-15 minutes at 25-50% volume to get the flexible parts moving then running at max (if you have the power) to move the surround and spider to their max position as they will be a little stiff until fully extended. Now whether this affects sound quality or affects in by any noticeable amount I’m not sure. In my case owning these titans as well I will never be able to run them at 100% power as that’s 3000+ wattts just for the front stage.
They are playing now at -10 from reference. Background music for me while upstairs with the downstairs theater doors open.

@BigJake82

Quote:
1. Forgoing equalization doesn't give a realistic comparison of how the speakers will be used in practice.
The purpose of this head to head pure direct comparison is to gain awareness of the relative differences between the pairs of speakers. The big key is tight level matching and quick switching capability - acoustic memory is short.

Quote:
3. Take listening position measurements of each speaker in both A and B spots and compare that both spots have same freq response (probably not). While your measuring, nearfield and 1M gated frequency response and distortion measurements could be handy.
To what end? I can switch to BABA if you feel 15" distance between acoustic centers is too much.

Quote:
4. You seem to like bright speakers. Add 3-5db at 10-12khz to the Titans to see if they sound better to you.
If you look at the FR graphs posted in post 1, both are pretty flat speakers. The VR3s have a little more energy centered around 9khz, about 2db higher than their average FR. That's not much - it may or may not be the difference. I think dome with waveguide vs compression with horn is playing a much larger role than 2db at 9khz though.

Quote:
5. Toe out Titans for wider sound stage.
Will do tonight.

Quote:
7. Try some movie clips, it is what the Titans were built for after all.

8. Stereo imaging comparisons are going to matter quite a bit less when placed in a surround sound.
I also use the theater for music listening. Certain clips I selected were specifically to test dynamics and bass capability - at my listening levels, the VR3s aren't losing out on dynamics. I might go louder tonight, but I think either speaker will drive me out of the room before it starts compressing or distorting noticeably. I'll eventually put them behind the screen to try for movies, but that's not nearly as critical listening.
SteveCallas is online now  
post #52 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
@mtg90 - your forum post about crossover modification says to cut one of the leads of the 33ohm resistor. I haven't done anything yet - do I only want to cut 1 lead vs removing it entirely (cutting both)?
SteveCallas is online now  
post #53 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 08:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DavidK442's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 1,661
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked: 725
I really enjoyed reading your comparison of these two speakers. For me it hit home the point that speaker engineering, like the electronics that drive them, reached maturity years ago.
Difficult to swallow for manufacturers, marketers and those with chronic "ugrade-itis", but for the rest of us it is reassuring that a quality speaker purchased today (or more than a decade ago) won't be significantly bested in the future.
Thank you for taking the time to setup the comparison and document your observations.
bimmaguy likes this.
DavidK442 is offline  
post #54 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 08:13 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

The purpose of this head to head pure direct comparison is to gain awareness of the relative differences between the pairs of speakers. The big key is tight level matching and quick switching capability - acoustic memory is short.
I've AB tested before. I generally use a single source to a dsp, eq each speaker as flat as possible to take the room out of the equation as much as possible. Not saying it's not a valid comparison, equalizing the speakers would make it better.

Quote:
To what end? I can switch to BABA if you feel 15" distance between acoustic centers is too much.
Couldn't hurt to switch positions. Measurements would be better so you know exactly whats happening. It could make them sound different or not, depends on the room.

I thought it would be interesting to see frequency/distortion plots of two living examples of these tested on the same setup.

Quote:
If you look at the FR graphs posted in post 1, both are pretty flat speakers. The VR3s have a little more energy centered around 9khz, about 2db higher than their average FR. That's not much - it may or may not be the difference. I think dome with waveguide vs compression with horn is playing a much larger role than 2db at 9khz though.
You might be surprised, I've experienced first hand 2-3db can be a lot. The Titan also has a bit of a dip between 10-12khz so the difference between the two could be much larger. The response on the BA also looks smoothed quite a bit, so the spike could actually be higher then shown. The dome and compression horn will sound different, I generally prefer compression drivers but YMMV. If that dome on the BA has a waveguide it must be small, that could be what the 9k bump is from.
Quote:
I also use the theater for music listening. Certain clips I selected were specifically to test dynamics and bass capability - at my listening levels, the VR3s aren't losing out on dynamics. I might go louder tonight, but I think either speaker will drive me out of the room before it starts compressing or distorting noticeably. I'll eventually put them behind the screen to try for movies, but that's not nearly as critical listening.
I've found sound effects can be much more demanding then most music. I've broke far more speakers/amps watching movies then listening to music. I've also completely abandon projects because of how they sounded while watching movies, even if they sounded great with music.
BigJake82 is offline  
post #55 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 08:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mtg90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millbrook, IL
Posts: 1,936
Mentioned: 574 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Liked: 1573
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
@mtg90 - your forum post about crossover modification says to cut one of the leads of the 33ohm resistor. I haven't done anything yet - do I only want to cut 1 lead vs removing it entirely (cutting both)?
That resistor is in parallel with the midrange output, you only need to cut one of the leads (and bend it away a little bit) to disconnect the resistor from the circuit.
mtg90 is offline  
post #56 of 260 Old 04-22-2019, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
Quote:
I've AB tested before. I generally use a single source to a dsp, eq each speaker as flat as possible to take the room out of the equation as much as possible. Not saying it's not a valid comparison, equalizing the speakers would make it better.
Problem is that whichever pair I put on the Marantz can be EQ'd however I like with the Audyssey app. Whichever pair I put on the Onkyo leaves me stuck with how Audyssey wants to EQ it. That wouldn't really be fair. It seems more fair to leave them as the designers intended.


Quote:
Couldn't hurt to switch positions. Measurements would be better so you know exactly whats happening. It could make them sound different or not, depends on the room.

I thought it would be interesting to see frequency/distortion plots of two living examples of these tested on the same setup.
I don't have a solid quality mic with which to measure these. Regarding BABA vs ABAB, I can swap locations tomorrow.


Quote:
If that dome on the BA has a waveguide it must be small, that could be what the 9k bump is from
Whoops, I didn't mean to say waveguide, it's an AMD. Runs vertically down the center of the tweeter and has several small holes in it horizontally. This is the lower output version shown on the older VRM speakers.

SteveCallas is online now  
post #57 of 260 Old 04-23-2019, 11:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Problem is that whichever pair I put on the Marantz can be EQ'd however I like with the Audyssey app. Whichever pair I put on the Onkyo leaves me stuck with how Audyssey wants to EQ it. That wouldn't really be fair. It seems more fair to leave them as the designers intended.
Ah, I see. You might want to try them in place with EQ before you make your final decision then, even if you can't AB swap them. Having just a basic $100 MiniDSP laying around is handy for stuff like this.

Quote:
I don't have a solid quality mic with which to measure these. Regarding BABA vs ABAB, I can swap locations tomorrow.
It's the best <$100 you will ever spend on your system. A $75 calibrated mic and REW or similar can give you a tremendous amount of useful information. I would highly recommend purchasing one for you, or anyone else who doesn't have one that takes audio even semi seriously.
BigJake82 is offline  
post #58 of 260 Old 04-23-2019, 12:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 7,349
Mentioned: 290 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1845 Post(s)
Liked: 2637
When do we get the movie watching comparisons?

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is offline  
post #59 of 260 Old 04-23-2019, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,992
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked: 662
Movies requires me taking down the screen, moving two hidden vertical subs behind the screen around a bit, rerunning Audyssey for 15 speakers, etc. Its going to be a chore that will have to wait a bit.

I want to exhaust stereo music listening comparisons while I have them in this arrangement
SteveCallas is online now  
post #60 of 260 Old 04-24-2019, 06:10 AM
Member
 
AngryJeremy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Thank you Steve. This is a great read.

Did you consider the Maximus 12, since that speaker is geared more toward music?
AngryJeremy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off