DIYSG Titan 615LX vs Boston Acoustics VR3 - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are the Audyssey graphs blown up a bit. Audyssey tries to identify a good starting center of +/-3db average sound energy from the sweep and makes that the 0db line. I have highlighted it in blue for both speakers.


You can see the Titans track that 0db center line very well from 40 - 1000hz with some room issues around 60hz, 120hz, and 280hz (not the speakers fault). Above 1000hz, it's a clear rolloff of 5db, I highlighted it in red. The drop at 18khz to 20khz is even more steep than that, it's a 10db drop, but I won't harp on that since it likely isn't the most easily audible range for most people.


The Bostons, which are on the left side of the room, closer to a wall (because I used the left chair for my tests), track almost as well from 40hz to 1000hz with room issues at 40hz, 100hz, and 290hz (not the speakers fault). Above 1000hz, it tracks the 0db center line well with a 4db dip from 6-7khz being the only deviation. The red line tracks the average. That could be inherent in the speaker, as the anechoic measurement shows something similar, but not as pronounced. It could be a frequency at which my treatments and overstuffed recliners soak up frequencies too, as the Titans show a similar valley in that frequency range, it's just not as pronounced since that whole range is rolling off.


When I compare the two, I don't see a rising FR on the Bostons, nor do I see a "major spike". I see a FR that tracks quite linearly in comparison to one that has a steady rolloff and then a very aggressive one.


Similarly, when I match the gates on the anechoic measurements, the peak the VR3s have at 9khz is no different than the peak the Titans have at 8khz, both are a ~4.5db swing to either immediately before or after.
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post #92 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 03:03 PM
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Audyssey Flat is a better setting in rooms that are treated. It aims for a flat response, not an Audyssey curve.

That will provide a much brighter top end and be better in your room (imoe)
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post #93 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Here are the Audyssey graphs blown up a bit. Audyssey tries to identify a good starting center of +/-3db average sound energy from the sweep and makes that the 0db line. I have highlighted it in blue for both speakers.


You can see the Titans track that 0db center line very well from 40 - 1000hz with some room issues around 60hz, 120hz, and 280hz (not the speakers fault). Above 1000hz, it's a clear rolloff of 5db, I highlighted it in red. The drop at 18khz to 20khz is even more steep than that, it's a 10db drop, but I won't harp on that since it likely isn't the most easily audible range for most people.


The Bostons, which are on the left side of the room, closer to a wall (because I used the left chair for my tests), track almost as well from 40hz to 1000hz with room issues at 40hz, 100hz, and 290hz (not the speakers fault). Above 1000hz, it tracks the 0db center line well with a 4db dip from 6-7khz being the only deviation. The red line tracks the average. That could be inherent in the speaker, as the anechoic measurement shows something similar, but not as pronounced. It could be a frequency at which my treatments and overstuffed recliners soak up frequencies too, as the Titans show a similar valley in that frequency range, it's just not as pronounced since that whole range is rolling off.


When I compare the two, I don't see a rising FR on the Bostons, nor do I see a "major spike". I see a FR that tracks quite linearly in comparison to one that has a steady rolloff and then a very aggressive one.


Similarly, when I match the gates on the anechoic measurements, the peak the VR3s have at 9khz is no different than the peak the Titans have at 8khz, both are a ~4.5db swing to either immediately before or after.
From 5khz to 10khz is a rise of 7dbs... it's quite clear.
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post #94 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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@realtight - we can agree to disagree, a rise would mean an increase from a neutral point - like an increase from the center blue 0db line. That is staying linear to the blue 0db line, there is just a dip before it. So the dip is fair to be called out, whether it is inherent in the speaker or a room function, but there is no rise. And that dip in the VR3s wouldn't make them sound clearer and more detailed than the Titans, it's the Titans drooping response that hurts it.


I will move that speaker away from the left wall and measure again to see if the dip is part of the speaker or part of the room. Either way, the top end is obviously flatter than what is going on with the Titan.
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post #95 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 03:27 PM
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If it was flat anechoically, it would be tilted downward at the top in the room. That's just the way it typically works. Sometimes that's hard to get across to people.
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post #96 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 03:30 PM
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Let's see if this helps: Measurements Gooddoc posted of JBL M2's In Room Response at MLP:






https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2907816-speaker-shootout-two-most-accurate-well-reviewed-speakers-ever-made-26.html#post54661000


From 2.5K-18K, a 7db drop. Normal In Room Response for a "Flat Speaker" (anechoically, which is what people mean when they say that).
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post #97 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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@John AA

Can you link me to the Revels in room frequency response from that same shoot out?

If every room results in a speaker having an upper frequency roll off (which I don’t believe) then speaker designers should counteract that with a rising upper frequency response, no? And why would Audyssey then look to roll off the upper frequencies even more by default?

If Titans are meant for very large spaces, then the upper frequency roll off would be even more exaggerated.
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post #98 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
@realtight - we can agree to disagree, a rise would mean an increase from a neutral point - like an increase from the center blue 0db line. That is staying linear to the blue 0db line, there is just a dip before it. So the dip is fair to be called out, whether it is inherent in the speaker or a room function, but there is no rise. And that dip in the VR3s wouldn't make them sound clearer and more detailed than the Titans, it's the Titans drooping response that

I will move that speaker away from the left wall and measure again to see if the dip is part of the speaker or part of the room. Either way, the top end is obviously flatter than what is going on with the Titan.
Because of that dip, there is a rise of 7dbs until 10khz... better now?

Why dont you try eqing them both the same and do a blindfold test and tell us which one is clearer.. to you.
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post #99 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
@John AA

Can you link me to the Revels in room frequency response from that same shoot out?
I don't think they measured though I didn't read every post in the thread so it's possible I missed it. It's a long one.


Quote:
If every room results in a speaker having an upper frequency roll off (which I don’t believe)
Certainly not every room, but I'm not sure you'd want to listen in one that doesn't.



Quote:
then speaker designers should counteract that with a rising upper frequency response, no?
No, because that sounds bad to most people.






That's from this paper you can download for free (very good read): http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17839



Your "two ears and a brain" have the ability to hear "through the room" to some extent. Meaning in their testing it was shown that accurate speakers are preferred in a variety of different rooms, even if their in room response is different in each room. Mess up the accuracy of the speaker so that it's flat in a room and it won't sound as good (again, generalizing).



Quote:
And why would Audyssey then look to roll off the upper frequencies even more by default?
I don't know how exactly they came up with that, maybe it was their best guesstimate at the time of what a typical rolloff would be in their ideal room, but many do criticize their target curve. For that as well as EQing the bass flat--eliminating the natural room gain that the user expects to hear in a room. The dynamic EQ does add some bass back to make up for that somewhat at common listening levels. Other room EQ systems use target curves that are probably a better target than theirs. Pro and the App do offer the "HF Rolloff 2" with a more gradual smooth rolloff. I find that easier to use when making custom curves. After removal of the BBC dip that curve doesn't look that much different from the M2 graphs posted. It still leaves the bottom end flat though.


Quote:
If Titans are meant for very large spaces, then the upper frequency roll off would be even more exaggerated.
I'm going to get myself in trouble with so many generalizations, but I think it's the opposite. In larger rooms (and specifically longer listening distances) the high end tends to roll off more. Of course variations in treatment can throw that out the window.
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post #100 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 06:55 PM
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Respectfully, how does one design a competent speaker for movies that is not good for stereo, and vice versa? Make the movie speaker not as clear and realistic sounding as you can in exchange for greater efficiency? Sacrifice efficiency on the stereo speaker for greater clarity and realism? What yields the extra clarity and realism that cant be achieved with a high efficiency speaker - my VR3s are 93db efficient.
If the first quasi-anechoic graph is at 1 watt then they are about 91db not 93. Efficiency and clarity aren't related.

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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Regarding the statements, this may sound extremely biased, but ive yet to hear a mtm design that has the imaging and soudstage size as a tm - vertical comb filtering usually diminishes these aspects.
MTM's have vertical nulls that can be advantageous at times, or not. I built a MTMW with a 3/4" Dome, 2-3" Mids, and a 6" Woofer a couple years ago that had a quite large sound stage. It really depends on the overall design.

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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
The rub here is that nobody really EQs above 1000hz because of the room anyway, and that seems to be where the differences are. The bass of the Titan and VR3 are both fine and indistinguishable. Its the upper end clarity that has differences, even after the crossover modification.
I and may others EQ above 1khz. How I EQ above 1-2k really depends on whether it's the driver or the room.

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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Speaker sound quality is like ice cream, everybody prefers a different flavor, with few people liking the exact same flavor. That said, you can’t really gauge your favorite flavor by looking at a graph, you have to taste it. To guess which speaker people would like based on those graphs is not a good practice, as my GF, who represents the absolute most casual listener possible, quickly reached the conclusion that the Titans sound muffled in comparison and preferred the Bostons. There is a percievable difference in realism/clarity in the sound when you compare the two speakers, but that will only be perceived when you compare the speakers.
But once you taste all the flavors you have a pretty good idea of what you like, and especially don't like. You can use that you guide your future ice cream endeavors. Speakers just have anechoic measurements instead of menus.

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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
What specifically about the design of the Titan, HTM, or 1099 is not conducive to stereo music listening with a 40hz crossover and no EQ? Im not accustomed to any speaker REQUIRING EQ to be suitable for music listening, as that would mean the speaker is deficient in design somewhere to begin with. If you mean to say your speakers are all designed to be ruler flat and then the user can EQ as they like, then im confident the Titan would have fared very well to my tastes. It didnt prevail specifically because its not panning out the way you are claiming it should, and the Bostons are because they actually have the flatter, more accurate frequency response.
I would consider the Bostons to have a slightly uphill response and the Titan to have slightly downhill a based on the measurements in the first post. I looked at quasi-anechoic measurements on 5-6 Boston speakers and they all seem to have a rising response and some sort of hump at 10k-ish. That would be what is considered the Boston sound I would guess, looks purposeful.

You might contact the designer of the speaker and they might be able to give you a couple resistors to change to bring up the top end. Or run a 1-2khz 3-5db shelf filter if your receiver is capable of that. I still think that 3-5db boost at 10-12k would make you like them better.

Quote:
You can see the Titans track that 0db center line very well from 40 - 1000hz with some room issues around 60hz, 120hz, and 280hz (not the speakers fault). Above 1000hz, it's a clear rolloff of 5db, I highlighted it in red. The drop at 18khz to 20khz is even more steep than that, it's a 10db drop, but I won't harp on that since it likely isn't the most easily audible range for most people.
It's rare that anyone over the age of 20 would hear an 18k rolloff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
@realtight - we can agree to disagree, a rise would mean an increase from a neutral point - like an increase from the center blue 0db line. That is staying linear to the blue 0db line, there is just a dip before it. So the dip is fair to be called out, whether it is inherent in the speaker or a room function, but there is no rise. And that dip in the VR3s wouldn't make them sound clearer and more detailed than the Titans, it's the Titans drooping response that hurts it.


I will move that speaker away from the left wall and measure again to see if the dip is part of the speaker or part of the room. Either way, the top end is obviously flatter than what is going on with the Titan.
You are putting far too much stock in the Audyssey's line placement. The line seems far more based on whats going on with the uncorrected bass then anything on the top end. I wouldn't really consider a speaker that has a 7db variation inside of an octave on the top end very flat. That dip followed by peak should be quite audible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
If every room results in a speaker having an upper frequency roll off (which I don’t believe) then speaker designers should counteract that with a rising upper frequency response, no? And why would Audyssey then look to roll off the upper frequencies even more by default?
Every room doesn't, that's why a lot of designer's shoot for a flat anechoic response. People that have a lot of treatments in their room will have a tendency to have high frequency roll-off.

Sorry for the 10,000 quotes
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post #101 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboAVS
Audyssey Flat is a better setting in rooms that are treated. It aims for a flat response, not an Audyssey curve.

That will provide a much brighter top end and be better in your room (imoe)
Unfortunately even the flat or music setting still has a rolled off top end, just not as aggressive. Luckily the app lets you overcome it with boost.

@Jon AA - from that paper:

Quote:
Flat on-axis frequency response is clearly the engineering objective for most of these systems. Those that deviate significantly earn lower ratings in double-blind subjective
evaluations. Although there is more to be considered, a flat direct sound delivered to listeners is the basis for most reproduced sound.
Quote:
Double-blind subjective evaluations of loudspeakers
conducted by the author and his colleagues for 35 years
have shown consistent preference for those having flat and
smooth on-axis frequency response
Quote:
The past trend had been
towards a wider bandwidth, flatter target curve, but a residual high-frequency rolloff remained in the last iteration. At
that time the thinking was that “if a room is tuned with
pink noise as a test signal to have a 3 dB per octave slope
from 2 kHz, the first-arrival signal will be closer to flat than
the 3 dB per octave seen on an analyzer would suggest.“
[35]. This morphed into a common belief that seeing the Xcurve high-frequency rolloff in steady-state measurements
at the 2/3 listening distance ensured a flat direct sound.
We now know that is not true with today’s loudspeakers
in today’s dubbing stages and cinemas—direct and steadystate sounds above about 1 kHz are essentially identical [4,
29–32]. In other words, the standardized rolloff results in a
dulling of the sound

It goes on to explain that in "normal", untreated rooms, midrange and bass frequencies will have lots of reflections, causing those frequency ranges to have increased amplitude, whereas the higher frequencies don't and it is mostly the direct sound you hear. In a cinema, you get the rolloff in higher frequencies from the acoustically transparent screen. He explains that the resulting X curve FR is NOT desirable, and it is a remnant from the old days we should seek to eliminate.

Quote:
The first is the high-frequency rolloff that has been
the subject of much debate and misunderstanding.
Because of technical advances in all aspects of audio recording and reproduction, from digital audio
through power amplifiers and loudspeakers, the circumstances of its origins no longer pertain. At this
time there seems to be no justification for the rolloff.
Because of the directional loudspeakers and cinema
acoustics, this rolloff exists almost identically in the
direct sound and in the steady-state sound—it is a
rolloff in a target curve, not a consequence of natural
room acoustics as has been a common misconception. The direct sound arriving at listeners is not flat.
Also of note is this:

Quote:
The attenuated high frequencies preferred by the trained
listeners stands in contrast to the preferences exhibited by those same listeners in numerous double-blind multiple-comparison loudspeaker evaluations. In those
tests, it is the flat on-axis loudspeakers that are most highly
rated

In a treated listening space, there is less contamination to the direct sound from reflections, and the FR is a purer image of the speaker. My room is significantly more treated for midrange and low frequency absorption than a normal room. It also says EQ above the Schroeder frequency is mostly harmful to the sound quality, which I alluded to earlier in stating that few people EQ up as high in frequency as the Titans would need. The only two solutions are a "better" loudspeaker (one that measures flatter in room of use) or for content creators to apply an inverse X curve filter.




Thanks for linking to that - it strengthens my stance on the necessity for a flat in room upper frequency response and matches with the preferences of my gf and I on the VR3s vs Titans.
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post #102 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon AA View Post
Let's see if this helps: Measurements Gooddoc posted of JBL M2's In Room Response at MLP:






https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2907816-speaker-shootout-two-most-accurate-well-reviewed-speakers-ever-made-26.html#post54661000


From 2.5K-18K, a 7db drop. Normal In Room Response for a "Flat Speaker" (anechoically, which is what people mean when they say that).
Testing a speaker in an anechoic room doesn’t have anything to do with whether a speaker is flat. The goal of an anechoic chamber is to get only the sound produced by the speaker with no room interaction. A true anechoic chamber emulates an infinitely large room. To get anechoic responses for the DIYSoundgroup speakers the designers have usually done the frequency response outside. If you google tuxedocivic’s posts you can probably find the picture of him with the speaker on a 12 (maybe 16) foot ladder to keep the ground from interacting with the sound. A terribly designed speaker in an anechoic chamber will have large peaks and dips across frequqencies. A “perfect” speaker would be totally flat. Of course they then could test off angle responses to see how off angle you can be before the frequency response is no longer good.
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post #103 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 09:49 PM
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The Titans do have a small amount of downward tilt to the response though they weren't designed with as much as they seem to measure in your room. I find a perfectly flat response to be way too bright especially as the volume increases.

If you don't mind experimenting (this is the DIY forum after all) I'd place a 10-15 ohm resistor (Can be 5-10w) in parallel with the existing 15ohm resistor (the one closer to the outside/edge of the crossover board). That should bring the high frequencies (above 2k) up closer to how the Boston's measure in your room. If you want to reduce the rolloff seen above 10k add a 1.5uF capacitor in parallel as well.
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post #104 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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@mtg90 - I dont mind at all and i appreciate your input on a way to make these perform better. Only problem is that i had one electrical course in college and i run a business now, so i would need a little diagram or something if possible to get me going.
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post #105 of 262 Old 04-26-2019, 10:32 PM
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The extra resistor and/or capacitor don't need to sit off to the side like that, they can be placed on top.
https://www.parts-express.com/10-ohm...erance--016-10
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...citor--027-412
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post #106 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Unfortunately even the flat or music setting still has a rolled off top end, just not as aggressive. Luckily the app lets you overcome it with boost.
No, the Flat curve is indeed Flat. Audyssey may be unable to attain that due to the natural rolloff of most speakers in most rooms as the amount of boost is limited but it will boost the highs as much as possible. The flat curve is not compatible with the app--the two different curves selectable in the app both use the Reference Curve spot in the AVR memory. If you select Flat with the AVR it's flat and no custom curve from the app can be used.


Though it's funny, "Step 1" in "Choose a Target Curve" from the Audyssey Pro instructions:



Quote:
a. Flat – A Flat target curve should not be used

Quote:
Thanks for linking to that - it strengthens my stance on the necessity for a flat in room upper frequency response and matches with the preferences of my gf and I on the VR3s vs Titans.
Unfortunately I think you need to read it again. In the quotes you posted, he is arguing the X-curve is outdated (which actually puts a large rolloff in the direct response of the speaker--making it non-flat anechoically). Nowhere does he ever say the alternative is a flat measured in-room response. I have not been talking about the X curve. Nobody has.



Please go to the section for small venues which is more applicable to home theaters. It couldn't be more clear:





No, it's not the obnoxious HF cut of the X curve, but it's not flat.


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post #107 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitmap42 View Post
A “perfect” speaker would be totally flat. Of course they then could test off angle responses to see how off angle you can be before the frequency response is no longer good.
Actually in the paper I linked, they describe 70 measurements taken and how that allows them to predict in-room response with very good accuracy. The technique has become an AES Standard.
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post #108 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 07:56 AM
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A shout out to everyone in this thread. Observations like these could easily make things turn sour, but everyone has instead chosen to focus on the why? and how? Keep it up and let the science shine through!
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post #109 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 08:05 AM
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I have a heavily treated room with HTM12s, the flat curve response after Audyssey is truly flat.

I am a bit concerned that Audyssey flat is not providing a flat response at least to 18k (above that is more the mic position imo).

Audyssey can boost i believe 10db...something may be off. Does he really need to alter the crossover? Asking as it seems something else would prevent him getting a flat corrected response.

My argument about curves is never that flat is "right", but that a flat response is imo the starting point, which if you cant get to flat, your own target curve is just another issue to be handled after fixing the flat response. My 2c.
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post #110 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 08:12 AM
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A couple of questions from my side. You mention using pure direct with a 40Hz crossover. I was under the impression that would disable the crossover, its been a while since using an Onkyo. With the crossovers set the way they are, have you tried to do a time alignment for each speaker independently at the crossover splice with the subs?


The tweeters on both types of speakers are at different heights and the Titan is quite focused in the horizontal plane, where is your ear height in relation to each tweeter of the respective speakers, as well as the mic height?


Lastly I see you are using the Audyssey app graph for the measurement of the frequency response. Im not sure what smoothing it is using, but if you could use REW with a umik-1 mic you would get a much better indication of what is going on, not only in frequency response but impulse response and room decay.
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post #111 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 01:13 PM
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DIYSG Titan 615LX vs Boston Acoustics VR3

As mentioned what is your ear height when seated? And how does that compare to the Boston’s and Titans? And how does that compare to where you measured?

If they are not all the same, perhaps add a shin to the back of the Titan waveguide holder or the bottom of the box to angle them so they are both at the same level (at the main LP).

Might not make a difference, might. I can’t say one way or the other, just throwing a thought out there.


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post #112 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I mentioned it earlier, seated ear height is just above the tweeter of the VR3s and between the compression driver and mid of the Titans, on that horizontal piece between the two waveguides.

I took SEVERAL more measurements of the Bostons and Titans last night from different heights and angles - the dip at 6-7khz is inherent in the VR3s as is the top end rolloff of the Titans. Different angles and heights (nothing extreme) resulted in other changes, but those two things stayed constant.

I will EQ the Titans with the app to boost the top end and compare that to the raw Bostons to see if modifying the crossover is a worthwhile task. Trying to get the Titan FR flat is a worthwhile endeavor, i want to keep these things if at all possible, but i just want to caution that it doesnt guarantee anything other than a flat FR.

I will report my findings when i get a chance to do it. Just watched Endgame and im bummed - AV presentation was weak.
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post #113 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 04:04 PM
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Thanks @SteveCallas , my apologies for not doing my due diligence and seeing that.

I applaud your openness to try different things and also take criticism.


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post #114 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 04:31 PM
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Good luck, Steve. I agree giving Audyssey a shot is worthwhile before messing with the crossover. The easiest thing to try is simply running Audyssey and selecting the "Flat" curve in the AVR. That might get you what you're looking for.


You might be able to get a better match using the app though. If you haven't downloaded Ratbuddy, I'd suggest it. It allows you to type in the control points so you can get them exactly where you want (and the same for multiple speakers). It's also very valuable to be able to see your measurements in detail (you can see all eight for each speaker) so it's great for testing the natural response of the speakers in different locations, listening positions, dispersion traits, etc.



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...app-files.html


You could try something like this:









That's using these control points and the "High Frequency Roll Off 2" Target Sound Option:


Freq Boost/Cut



20 0
4000 -1
6000 -2
8000 4
20000 6



Ignore the lower portion of the graph, that's for a speaker that rolls off around 70 hz so Audyssey bases the target curve on what's realistic for your speakers. Yours should go down flat to the 40 hz range.


Anyway, that's just an example. Audyssey may or may not be able to hit that very closely, but it should get you closer to the sound you're looking for. Of course even if you match the in-room frequency response exactly, they'll still sound different than your Bostons as the dispersion characteristics are much different. Different, but you may like them very much.
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post #115 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 05:22 PM
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One more suggestion--you seemed to like the Titans the most in your first comparison, so you might want to try going back to that toe setting. I think more sidewall reflections may sound more natural to you given the dispersion of the Bostons you're accustomed to.
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post #116 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I toed the Titans back out the way they were early on, too much toe in never helped them. The big change was toeing the Bostons in to be direct on axis - from that point on they ran away with it.
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post #117 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 06:58 PM
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Why not just run the Titans as your fronts for a couple weeks then swap back in the Boston’s? That’s gonna be the best test.

Break in the Titans parts, but also break you into their sound long term rather than short term.

Then when you switch back in the Boston’s you will have had more consistent time with the Titans.

Sometimes you have to break yourself in on new gear.

Example. If you have one more sloppy bass for years, accurate bass may seem like it’s not as good, because your not used to it.

Live with that accurate bass for a bit, and then you realize how BAD you had it before.

Without living with it for a bit, you may never have know what’s been missing.

Just an example, not pointed at anyone directly (well except maybe me since I came from car audio bassland lol)......


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post #118 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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If you have Margot Robbie, why pay $2k and force yourself to live with Jenna Fischer just to make sure you prefer Margot? You already know Margot is better lol.
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post #119 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 07:18 PM
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Because if you already paid out the 2k, why not take a bit longer to evaluate since it’s not like you have a return policy on either set at this point......

That’s the point. Make sure you have Margot and then stop searching for another set of speakers lol.....

I could buy a new AVR, run it for an hour, and say, Meh..... my Denon does the same stuff.......

Then I play with it more and realize tweaking menus is easier, it’s more responsive connected to Ethernet, etc.

Wouldn’t learn any of that without actually using it and having to do those things intermittently during that time for longer than a couple mins during a A/B set.....


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post #120 of 262 Old 04-27-2019, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
If you have Margot Robbie, why pay $2k and force yourself to live with Jenna Fischer just to make sure you prefer Margot? You already know Margot is better lol.
I think this is the forum you're looking for.
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