DIYSG Titan 615LX vs Boston Acoustics VR3 - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 260 Old 05-18-2019, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
This is what I’ve been wondering about, is there a compression driver that has the detail of the domes or ribbons with more spl capability. I can’t tell if it’s the case that by design the compression driver by bouncing the output before it emerges, will never sound as transparent as a direct radiator.
That's not true. Some of the best holographic sound speakers use a wave guide such as the JBL M2 and the Everest which uses compression drivers.

I have owned Martin Logan, Apogee, and some pretty high end domes, and none of them compare to the imaging and sound stage of what I now have.
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post #242 of 260 Old 05-19-2019, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Were you able to compare them side by side?
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post #243 of 260 Old 05-19-2019, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
That's not true. Some of the best holographic sound speakers use a wave guide such as the JBL M2 and the Everest which uses compression drivers.

I have owned Martin Logan, Apogee, and some pretty high end domes, and none of them compare to the imaging and sound stage of what I now have.
Well, people in a shootout picked the Revel over the JBL M2, dome vs compression driver. The point is Steve likes what he likes.

Do you guys think all the Boston Acoustics people would be all over this thread if the titans were preferred? The JBL M2 is touted as one of the best measured speakers ever and it is not the preference of everyone.

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post #244 of 260 Old 05-19-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
That's not true. Some of the best holographic sound speakers use a wave guide such as the JBL M2 and the Everest which uses compression drivers.



I have owned Martin Logan, Apogee, and some pretty high end domes, and none of them compare to the imaging and sound stage of what I now have.


What is your preferred CD? Do you have a link to your preferred setup?
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post #245 of 260 Old 05-19-2019, 01:04 PM
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Well, people in a shootout picked the Revel over the JBL M2, dome vs compression driver. The point is Steve likes what he likes.
Sir, I was commenting on the blanket statement that wave guides prevent a speaker from sounding transparent.

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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
This is what I’ve been wondering about, is there a compression driver that has the detail of the domes or ribbons with more spl capability. I can’t tell if it’s the case that by design the compression driver by bouncing the output before it emerges, will never sound as transparent as a direct radiator.
No comment was made about domes being better or worse. I simply disagree with the blue highlighted words because there are transparent sounding wave guide speakers.

I never commented on what Steve likes. I never heard the Titan or the speakers he likes so I have no comment on that. I have burned out a ton of dome tweeters that sounded awesome so Steve's speakers won't work for me because burned out tweeters don't sound good.

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post #246 of 260 Old 05-19-2019, 01:19 PM
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Sir, I was commenting on the blanket statement that wave guides prevent a speaker from sounding transparent.

I actually said I think that might be the case and was asking for input. Also I don’t believe the waveguide has to do with it but asked if the CD does. I’m comparing htm10 and mini statements and the ribbon wins in detail, the horn on directivity.

And this is a sincere question, what is a transparent sounding CD? I want to start working on some new speakers for a large room, so I’d like to order a couple CD to try. Might be paired with some AE woofers or maybe a three way.
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post #247 of 260 Old 05-19-2019, 01:38 PM
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I actually said I think that might be the case and was asking for input. Also I don’t believe the waveguide has to do with it but asked if the CD does. I’m comparing htm10 and mini statements and the ribbon wins in detail, the horn on directivity.

And this is a sincere question, what is a transparent sounding CD? I want to start working on some new speakers for a large room, so I’d like to order a couple CD to try. Might be paired with some AE woofers or maybe a three way.
I think I answered it as you asked it by giving examples of speakers which are transparent sounding. If even one speaker can be transparent sounding with a compression driver and waveguide then the implementation doesn't preclude transparent sound.

I didn't say there aren't speakers that sound better. Compression drivers fix other issues such as spl output with low distortion which preclude domes for some people, not that they can't sound amazing. I kept burning them out so that route is not going to work for me.

I think one problem with compression drivers, particularly on this forum is that only budget models are used. Polyester/mylar/ ect break up and can sound grainy. Titanium can scream at you. Yes they can be implemented to minimize these effects and sound great but for the most part, there are very few DIY kits that use high end drivers. On occasion there are beryllium builds but they don't get much follow up when parts cost $5k.

Wave guides can also be used with dome tweeters. The JBL 308P used with a sub is one of the best systems I've heard if used within it's 107db spl limits. I use a pair of those with a TC Sounds sub in a bedroom system and it is as good as anything I've heard transparency wise.

A 3rd system I have uses an XT25 ring radiator on an 8" wave guide. It too sounds great.

I'm not hating on domes.
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post #248 of 260 Old 05-19-2019, 01:49 PM
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And this is a sincere question, what is a transparent sounding CD?
Any CD can sound transparent in a properly designed system.

I'd look at the DIYSG HTM12 and once you get it in your room, EQ it to your tastes and address the frequency areas typically blamed for making a speaker sound tubby. A decrease in the 100-300hz range typically is credited with making a speaker sound transparent. You also need a very flat midrange.

Judging a speaker for frequency response issues that aren't to you taste is why EQ exists.
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post #249 of 260 Old 05-19-2019, 02:11 PM
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Then whether Dome or CD wont matter for transparency with at frequencies you just posted.

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post #250 of 260 Old 05-19-2019, 09:07 PM
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Then whether Dome or CD wont matter for transparency with at frequencies you just posted.
I never said it did. I said wave guide speakers can sound transparent and offered a way to improve that aspect of sound with EQ for any speaker.

You seem intent on believing it was an attack on domes when it was a defense of CD's/waveguides.
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post #251 of 260 Old 05-20-2019, 06:39 AM
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No, not an attack, a misundestanding. Waveguides were never mentioned by me, compression drivers were. I am talking sound of cd's and domes, that is all. You said waveguide speakers can sound holographic then mentioned 100-300hz being lowered. That is all. All I said that Steve might just like the sound of domes over cds, and that the titan was not a seos waveguide. I know there are awesome and crap domes, cds, etc.. Where there is somebody loving cds another preferes domes, and vice versa. I like CDs for their dynamic sound, but like domes for their natural sound. Have you tried making an array of that xt25? Which xt25, they are not all the same. I made an array of the best one and none of the CD/waveguide speakers sound as good. It is in my Avatar.
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post #252 of 260 Old 05-20-2019, 03:18 PM
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No, not an attack, a misundestanding. Waveguides were never mentioned by me, compression drivers were. I am talking sound of cd's and domes, that is all. You said waveguide speakers can sound holographic then mentioned 100-300hz being lowered. That is all. All I said that Steve might just like the sound of domes over cds, and that the titan was not a seos waveguide. I know there are awesome and crap domes, cds, etc.. Where there is somebody loving cds another preferes domes, and vice versa. I like CDs for their dynamic sound, but like domes for their natural sound. Have you tried making an array of that xt25? Which xt25, they are not all the same. I made an array of the best one and none of the CD/waveguide speakers sound as good. It is in my Avatar.
I would say that CD's, at least the ones I've heard, were grainy in comparison to quality domes. That changed once I heard a beryllium CD. The beryllium pushes the breakup above 20k.

I have the XT25-60 with the double magnet (vifa?). The big advantage of a wave guide with that ring radiator is that the low end lift allows you to roll it off nearly 10db in the 2k range making it cleaner distortion wise.
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post #253 of 260 Old 05-20-2019, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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have you heard a berillium dome?
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post #254 of 260 Old 05-20-2019, 08:25 PM
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I was going to say that. A beryllium CD is not cheap at all, if it takes a $500 CD to sound better than a $25-$50 dome than that explains a lot.

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post #255 of 260 Old 05-20-2019, 09:28 PM
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I was going to say that. A beryllium CD is not cheap at all, if it takes a $500 CD to sound better than a $25-$50 dome than that explains a lot.
Just because I kept some junk speakers for minor systems doesn't mean I haven't had my share of $300 dome tweeters.
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post #256 of 260 Old 05-21-2019, 06:54 AM
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There are always going to be values of sorts out there, I like my $25 dual ring radiators better than my $1000 jbl 2447.

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post #257 of 260 Old 05-21-2019, 07:27 AM
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That's a lot of money for a 2447(H? J?), although brand new I guess they do go for that amount.


Theres also a big difference between a CD that crosses over at 500hz versus a dome that crosses over at 1800(and higher). Not to mention all the issues that arise from running an array of HF tweeters versus a single point source.


An ultra sensitive CD doesn't have to use all of its power handling either in a home environment allowing most to users to use cheaper CD's as well. Here, it is all too often that very expensive ones get recommended.


Me, personally, I'll never go back to dome's.
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post #258 of 260 Old 05-21-2019, 07:54 AM
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I know all about tweeter arrays and line arrays, etc.. I crossed my 2447(best CD I have owned) at 500hz to my jbl 2035. It was a great speaker. My tweeter array crosses at 1600hz. I like my tweeter array better on the same reference level material I always compare. My tweeter array cost $100. I am going to try smaller dual rings next for a 12 inch long array which BTW is smaller than the huge horns required for these big 2 inch CDs. They all become point source at a certain distance and I don't move my head up and down to notice any comb filtering. My response is much flatter without EQ with the array over any CD I have owned.

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post #259 of 260 Old 05-21-2019, 07:59 AM
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DIYSG Titan 615LX vs Boston Acoustics VR3

Can’t weigh in with a valid opinion regarding dome vs compression drivers, but I can say that I had Hsu horn loaded bookshelf speakers that I thought sounded really good and now have DIYSG HTM-8’s with compression drivers in SEOS horns and I think they sound great as well in my living room with poor placement.

I’m really interested to try a wide dispersion design such as the DIYSG Appolo 7 MT or the Helix Dome MT, as I feel like this would be a fun comparison between a wide dispersion design and a controlled directivity design. Also both of those designs are pretty capable to be used full range without a sub and would be fun to check out such a design.


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post #260 of 260 Old 05-21-2019, 08:49 AM
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As long as both are playing low distortion and no compression. If you play a dome louder than it should than it will sound bad. Same for any driver.

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