HTM-8 L/R and Fusion 8 center build - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 131 Old 03-30-2019, 03:17 PM
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Woodcraft sells ‘clamping squares’ for $10-20 that you can use to square up panels as the glue dries. I have used them with 6” clamps plus a nail gun. You use the squares/clamps to align the panels, then nail, let it sit for a few minutes for the glue to set, and then remove and go to the next panel.

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post #32 of 131 Old 03-30-2019, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Started assembly today. Without a brad nailer, it was very challenging to get the cab glued, aligned, and optimally clamped. Awkward, messy, and a little frustrating as I ended up with a least one area that is not perfectly aligned and will need a little sanding.

I need to figure out a better strategy for getting the next cab glued up.
My method, and this stems from not having enough clamps , is to glue/clamp a side, top or bottom, and the brace to the back. Let sit for an hour (assuming using Titebond or similar, fairly quick setup time), remove clamps and glue the other panels. Fewer edges to align at once = less frustration.
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post #33 of 131 Old 03-30-2019, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
My method, and this stems from not having enough clamps , is to glue/clamp a side, top or bottom, and the brace to the back. Let sit for an hour (assuming using Titebond or similar, fairly quick setup time), remove clamps and glue the other panels. Fewer edges to align at once = less frustration.


I was going over things in my head while the first cab dries and I came up with the same idea. I’m thinking back panel, brace, and a side panel. Two clamps for brace to back. Two for brace to side. And two for side to back. This should keep everything squared up and give a solid foundation to glue the other three sides In place. Oh well. I don’t think the first one is a disaster...just not as perfect as I would like.


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post #34 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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First box is ready for caulk, stuffing, and crossover. Here's a couple of closeups of the area(s) where I didn't get the panels aligned perfectly. I think a little bit of bond/spackle and light sanding and it will be ok. I'll glue up the second cab today and get them both caulked up. These cabs are quite thin, so wondering if I should add a little more bracing to eliminate any possible cabinet resonance, or if there is some type of sound deadener that can/should be attached to the inside panels? I will be using R6.7 denim insulation for stuffing.


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post #35 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 07:12 AM
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Are you going to paint or veneer or ?

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post #36 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDTM View Post
Are you going to paint or veneer or ?
These will be painted. I plan on a smooth, satin black finish. I'm not opposed to veneer, and would have been a fun project to try, but I'm good with plain old black.

Started gluing the second cab. Did this one differently...I only glued the back panel, brace, and one side panel. It used 9 of my 12 clamps to properly clamp it all. After clamping and wiping off the excess glue, I clamped the top panel above the brace dry without glue just to square up the side panel as it wasn't 100% square when I test fitted the top panel. So used 11 clamps!! Glad I bought a couple extra. I know this stuff sets up pretty good after an hour or so but the glue says to not stress the joints for 24 hours, so I will let this set up over night and glue the other three panels in place tomorrow evening. My denim is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.

I thought about using Speakon for terminals, because Speakon, but I already bought and paid for regular banana terminals so meh.

Any strong recommendations for bondo vs spackle for seams? Want to make sure whatever I use is permanent and durable without any chance for cracking over time or anything.

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post #37 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Any strong recommendations for bondo vs spackle for seams? Want to make sure whatever I use is permanent and durable without any chance for cracking over time or anything.
I normally use wood putty for seams and have been happy with the results. As long as the panels are well glued, and depending on the size of the gap, spackle should work just fine too and can be easier to get into the gaps. In your prior pics it doesn't look like you have any seams that couldn't be filled with spackle (but sometimes it can be difficult seeing them in pictures).
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post #38 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
These will be painted. I plan on a smooth, satin black finish. I'm not opposed to veneer, and would have been a fun project to try, but wife strongly preferred black and I'm happy either way.

Started gluing the second cab. Did this one differently...I only glued the back panel, brace, and one side panel. It used 9 of my 12 clamps to properly clamp it all. After clamping and wiping off the excess glue, I clamped the top panel above the brace dry without glue just to square up the side panel as it wasn't 100% square when I test fitted the top panel. So used 11 clamps!! Glad I bought a couple extra. I know this stuff sets up pretty good after an hour or so but the glue says to not stress the joints for 24 hours, so I will let this set up over night and glue the other three panels in place tomorrow evening. My denim is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.

I thought about using Speakon for terminals, because Speakon, but I already bought and paid for regular banana terminals so meh.

Any strong recommendations for bondo vs spackle for seams? Want to make sure whatever I use is permanent and durable without any chance for cracking over time or anything.

I use Bondo for bigger areas and Spackle for smaller(nail holes, small seams).You might look into Duratex if you want black(you can actually get colors also)I find it works better hiding imperfections.Depending on the way you apply it you can have a very smooth finish to a very pebblely finish.Another bonus...it's very tough.
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post #39 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
I normally use wood putty for seams and have been happy with the results. As long as the panels are well glued, and depending on the size of the gap, spackle should work just fine too and can be easier to get into the gaps. In your prior pics it doesn't look like you have any seams that couldn't be filled with spackle (but sometimes it can be difficult seeing them in pictures).
Wood puddy doesn't harden. Wood filler, it wood patch hardens and can be stained.

Duratex hides a multitude of sin...

I pc-7 the ports in (I like to use PVC ports with a round-over bit). I usually have a bit left over so will hit any imperfections with it. This 2-part epoxy cures all that ails you.

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post #40 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 12:56 PM
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Wood puddy doesn't harden. Wood filler, it wood patch hardens and can be stained.
Yes, apologies, I have a bad habit of incorrectly referring to filler as putty. Famowood filler is my go-to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyandersen
Duratex hides a multitude of sin...
Indeed it does, love the stuff. Although I find it difficult to get even coverage on things like baffles, with so little flat area. Going to try spraying it next time.
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post #41 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 01:03 PM
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With regard to the clamping order I put plastic down on a flat surface. I lay the back down either side and top and bottom. I apply glue to 3 edges of the sides (not the end, just where the back and sides interface) and the back edge of the top and bottom (where they interface with the back). I lightly assemble the box, but down squish too much glue out). I put two clamps on the table on either side that run parallel with the box height. This aligns the sides with the top and bottom and also clamps the top and bottom to the back.

Then I run two clamps across and just above the first set of clamps. This squeezes the sides to the back, top and bottom. Then I use two more clamps near the front of the box also cross ways from the first set. This squeezes the other side of the sides to the top and bottom. If you are careful and check the alignment as you go the clamping force will keep everything aligned.

If there is a center window brace I'll add one clamp cross ways again in the middle at the window brace.

This technique will glue 5 sides together with just 6 clamps, or at the most 7 clamps. Then once set up, it's relatively easy to glue the baffle on. It's pretty fast as well as you only have two setups per one box. I use the aluminum extruded bar clamps from harbor freight.

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(2) volt 8s
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(1) fusion 7 center (which had to be modified)
(10) overnight sensation MTM
(6) overnight sensation TM

The only way I could get all that done was to have a relatively quick way if gluing boxes up.

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post #42 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 01:34 PM
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HTM-8 L/R and Fusion 8 center build

Took my 13 clamps to get 1 HTM-8 completely done except baffle


I’d wait 4-5 hours for glue to decently dry then do next one

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post #43 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 02:39 PM
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Took my 13 clamps to get 1 HTM-8 completely done except baffle


I’d wait 4-5 hours for glue to decently dry then do next one

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Of course glue drying depends on temperature, but at room temp I pulled the clamps off once the glue started to turn mostly transparent -- maybe 40-60 minutes. The reason I do that is the glue is still soft enough at that point that you can easily scrape it. That way you save labor and effort. I treat the easy, but I've never had one come apart.

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post #44 of 131 Old 03-31-2019, 03:10 PM
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HTM-8 L/R and Fusion 8 center build

My method:
Apply glue lightly on one side of joint, put piece on joint, lightly press together, pull off, look at glue both pieces, if needed put glue just where needed.
I have a damp washcloth, as I test each joint wipe outside if needed.
Continue for all joints, strategy is use a little glue as needed, wipe as little as needed.
Add clamps... it’s a learned pattern, just lightly tighten , keep joint square, wipe excess, add more clamps.
I have all clamps on and did the initial wipes as needed, then just snug them good.

After all clamped, I take my finger inside and wipe each joint interface to make sure coverage and nice looking.

Everyone learns what works for them.


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post #45 of 131 Old 04-02-2019, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Made a little progress on the HTM-8's today. Planned out where I want to put stuffing, how much to use, and where to mount the crossover. Realized I didn't have much 16 gauge wire to connect to the crossover for speakers and input, and I think 14 gauge is too big?

I know this is an extremely minor detail, but does anyone have advice/suggestions as to whether I should use 16/14/12 guage wire inside the cab? The perfectionist in me says to use 12 gauge since these speakers can handle a lot of power..why run nice heavy 12 gauge to the cab and then chincy 16g inside? Also, I didn't have any connectors to fit the board so just screwed the clamps down onto the bare wire, making a U shape with the wire around the screw.

Tomorrow, I will cut the holes for the banana terminals, glue in the stuffing, mount the crossovers, and glue the baffles down so the cabs are built and ready for finishing. Here's my current stuffing layout. It's not super thick so I don't think I used too much.





Almost forgot, I also plan to caulk all the same inside the cab just to be 100% sure there is never an air leak.
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post #46 of 131 Old 04-02-2019, 06:13 PM
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I've used 14Ga inside all my builds, no issues thus far. On my terminals all I had to do was open the screw to bring the top plate up enough to push straight wire under it, then tighten them down. Nothing has come loose yet.

You might need to cut away some of the denim on the lower sides, depending on how it interacts with the ports.
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post #47 of 131 Old 04-02-2019, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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The stuffing will be up against the port if I don't trim it away....Should the ends of the ports be free all the way around for proper flow? I think I'll cut out the bottom couple inches on the sides just in case.

Does the HTM-8 flat pack seem a little light on bracing to anyone? Kind of wondering if I should add a little bit more bracing, especially in the woofer section.

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post #48 of 131 Old 04-02-2019, 06:41 PM
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^ we don't know how many man hours and how much R&D and money (not counting college educations?)went into "these" DIYSG designs

but I'm willing to bet on the house for this one . .

crank it

these HTM6's - no stuffing within about 4 inches

they are unbelievably clear, detailed and the sound field is generally huge and seemingly impossibly , at times, 3D immersive.

they are on stands about 15" tall

there is also a generous handful of poly behind the horn
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post #49 of 131 Old 04-02-2019, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
The stuffing will be up against the port if I don't trim it away....Should the ends of the ports be free all the way around for proper flow? I think I'll cut out the bottom couple inches on the sides just in case.



Does the HTM-8 flat pack seem a little light on bracing to anyone? Kind of wondering if I should add a little bit more bracing, especially in the woofer section.
I try to keep the ports free, and I usually put a 1/16" radius on it. The reason probably don't do much but make me feel good.

The HTM 8 is wider than the cinema 8 or fusion 8 center, so I can't say for sure. Both the cinema 8 and fusion 8 center seem quite robust as the are made from 3/4 HDF for the most part (only the fusion 8 center baffle was MDF). Test on it lightly with a hammer and see if it rings. If it damps out quickly and doesn't give you that drum-like hollow sounds your probably be okay.

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post #50 of 131 Old 04-03-2019, 09:46 AM
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looking ahead
there's a possibility you may build something else , maybe not even a speaker,
that's O.K. but it's probably only a temporary "fix"

those black right angle jigs things- the right stuff
from Rockler
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post #51 of 131 Old 04-04-2019, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Cut the holes for the terminals today, caulked the seams, glued in stuffing, mounted one of the crossovers and glued the baffle on. So one cab is ready for sanding/finish prep. I'll glue the other baffle on tomorrow so I have enough clamps and both speakers will be ready for prep. I added a piece of stuffing to the top of the cab and trimmed the sides shorter so they don't interfere with the port.

Zero progress on getting the panels cut for the center channel.
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post #52 of 131 Old 04-05-2019, 07:38 AM
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I did not add any more bracing to my HTM-8’s, also as noted made sure area by port free of material, including black speaker grille cloth
I painted the inside wood black so can’t see anything if looking in from outside





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post #53 of 131 Old 04-05-2019, 12:22 PM
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Missed the xover wire gage Q
I’ve used this 16ga red/red-black wire for many many builds, this is my 3rd spool.







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post #54 of 131 Old 04-06-2019, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I decided to use wood filler for getting the cabs ready for primer rather than spackle. I don't want fragile spackle to end up damaged or cracked if I bump the speaker on something. Seems like wood filler will be much more durable. Hope to share some progress tomorrow.
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post #55 of 131 Old 04-07-2019, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking for suggestions on how to finish the cabs. I want a nice smooth, low gloss satin black finish. I don't know if I should roll on primer, sand in between coats, just a apply a bunch of coats with no sanding, etc etc. Same goes for the paint. Roll it on? Sand coats? I don't have a paint sprayer so its either roll, brush, or spray paint. Should I use some kind of low glass lacquer for the final layer?
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post #56 of 131 Old 04-07-2019, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Getting seams covered. I sanded the cabs down until I felt like they were completely smooth then used wood filler. It was REALLY thick and hard to work with. I dribbled a little water in and mixed it up, which thinned it quite a lot and made it spread on smooth as butter. Was MUCH easier. Hoping to sand today if it dries quickly enough and do a second coat if needed. I'd like to have them ready for primer today.




Need to make a run to the store to pick up primer and paint, and probably some smooth rollers.
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post #57 of 131 Old 04-07-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
… Does the HTM-8 flat pack seem a little light on bracing to anyone? Kind of wondering if I should add a little bit more bracing, especially in the woofer section.
Depends on how much you trust the designers at DIYSG. On the DIYSG website look at the cutaway drawings of every one of the smaller flat packs for 6" and 8" woofer models in the home theater speaker section. They're all made of 1/2" Baltic birch with minimal bracing. I don't recall a single instance of anyone on this forum ever expressing the need to add additional bracing to any of those flat packs.
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post #58 of 131 Old 04-07-2019, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Dang. I sanded the wood filler down, and not sure if I accomplished anything. I think I sanded most all the wood filler away. Maybe this filled the seams a little. I don't know. I'll do another thin smooth coat and sand again. But then I think I'll move on to primer. Prime x 4, paint x several, lacquer, sand?

Unless I learn different from some research before beginning, I think I'll sand each coat of primer as I want a really smooth professional looking finish. Same with the paint. I need to figure out what type of primer and paint to use....latex, enamel, oil, etc. I'm assuming NOT latex so that it dries nice and hard and won't be trying to sand rubbery latex paint.

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post #59 of 131 Old 04-07-2019, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Does the HTM-8 flat pack seem a little light on bracing to anyone? Kind of wondering if I should add a little bit more bracing, especially in the woofer section.
No extra bracing is needed, especially with a cabinet that small and shallow. The full horizontal window brace locks the entire width of the front panel to the entire width of the rear panel. If you add more bracing it wouldn't really change anything, but would make installing the crossover kind of difficult.

The speakers get tested and abused during the prototype and design phase and if anything needs changed on the cabinet or ports it's taken care of.
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post #60 of 131 Old 04-07-2019, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
No extra bracing is needed, especially with a cabinet that small and shallow. The full horizontal window brace locks the entire width of the front panel to the entire width of the rear panel. If you add more bracing it wouldn't really change anything, but would make installing the crossover kind of difficult.

The speakers get tested and abused during the prototype and design phase and if anything needs changed on the cabinet or ports it's taken care of.
Thanks Erich! While you're here, question for ya. I need to cut the ports for the HTM-8 to 2" in length if Im not mistaken. Where do I measure from, the top most part of the flared opening? or below the ribbed portion that presses into the cab? I'm assuming total length including the flare should be 2". Almost ready for primer!
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