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post #1 of 55 Old 03-21-2019, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Need help Selecting a Kit around $1000 2-channel

I am looking to build a pair of speakers. I have been looking to build a kit for around $1000. My family and I like to play music in the morning. Rock, jazz, oldies, new music... etc... No real specific genre... When the wife is out of the house I play music and like clarity.

My living room is smaller but I like the look of large speakers and my wife said I can so I am going to!!! So I am looking for floor standers

I really like to have some punch with rock but I also like clarity for jazz, classical, and newer music. My wife likes to walk around a lot while music is playing but I don't think that she is too particular about directivity.

Here are some kits that I have found so far.

$1276 DIYSG Maximus 12
$1100 +SH Statement II
$983 + SH Anthology
$855 + SH Finalist Tower
$1100 Zaph Audio SV12.3
$? DTQWT (I don't know much about them but there is seems to be a lot of builds with this kit. )

I know there are a ton of kits. Are there any that I should be looking into outside of these? I heard that Ryan Bouma (Tuxidocivic) has completed a 3 way kit that could be interesting. DIYSG had an update about putting it on their site.

I will be purchasing a kit in about 2 months so I am starting my research now. Thanks!
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post #2 of 55 Old 03-21-2019, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rodriguez View Post
I am looking to build a pair of speakers. I have been looking to build a kit for around $1000. My family and I like to play music in the morning. Rock, jazz, oldies, new music... etc... No real specific genre... When the wife is out of the house I play music and like clarity.

My living room is smaller but I like the look of large speakers and my wife said I can so I am going to!!! So I am looking for floor standers

I really like to have some punch with rock but I also like clarity for jazz, classical, and newer music. My wife likes to walk around a lot while music is playing but I don't think that she is too particular about directivity.

Here are some kits that I have found so far.

$1276 DIYSG Maximus 12
$1100 +SH Statement II
$983 + SH Anthology
$855 + SH Finalist Tower
$1100 Zaph Audio SV12.3
$? DTQWT (I don't know much about them but there is seems to be a lot of builds with this kit. )

I know there are a ton of kits. Are there any that I should be looking into outside of these? I heard that Ryan Bouma (Tuxidocivic) has completed a 3 way kit that could be interesting. DIYSG had an update about putting it on their site.

I will be purchasing a kit in about 2 months so I am starting my research now. Thanks!
DIYSG is coming out with a kit that you might like, here is the quote from the site.

The designer of the 1099 ( a.k.a - TuxedoCivic) worked on a high end 3 way speaker that uses a Motus 8" woofer, Morel midrange, and a big Fountek ribbon. That design is complete and I'll be getting the kit listed in about a month along with his Life 5 design.

This was posted January 20th

Edit - just saw you know about it
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post #3 of 55 Old 03-21-2019, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Buddylee123 View Post
DIYSG is coming out with a kit that you might like, here is the quote from the site.

The designer of the 1099 ( a.k.a - TuxedoCivic) worked on a high end 3 way speaker that uses a Motus 8" woofer, Morel midrange, and a big Fountek ribbon. That design is complete and I'll be getting the kit listed in about a month along with his Life 5 design.

This was posted January 20th

Edit - just saw you know about it
Yes, I am curious to know more about it. Tux makes some good stuff. I especially like his youtube channel.

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post #4 of 55 Old 03-21-2019, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rodriguez View Post
I am looking to build a pair of speakers. I have been looking to build a kit for around $1000. My family and I like to play music in the morning. Rock, jazz, oldies, new music... etc... No real specific genre... When the wife is out of the house I play music and like clarity.

My living room is smaller but I like the look of large speakers and my wife said I can so I am going to!!! So I am looking for floor standers

I really like to have some punch with rock but I also like clarity for jazz, classical, and newer music. My wife likes to walk around a lot while music is playing but I don't think that she is too particular about directivity.

Here are some kits that I have found so far.

$1276 DIYSG Maximus 12
$1100 +SH Statement II
$983 + SH Anthology
$855 + SH Finalist Tower
$1100 Zaph Audio SV12.3
$? DTQWT (I don't know much about them but there is seems to be a lot of builds with this kit. )

I know there are a ton of kits. Are there any that I should be looking into outside of these? I heard that Ryan Bouma (Tuxidocivic) has completed a 3 way kit that could be interesting. DIYSG had an update about putting it on their site.

I will be purchasing a kit in about 2 months so I am starting my research now. Thanks!
I have not heard the DIYSG speakers or the Zaph kit, but have heard good things about them from others I trust.

I built the original Statements (and the Statements center channel) and have heard the Mini Statements which are very similar. For the price, I personally could not be happier with the designs from Curt Campbell/Jim Holtz using those driver combinations. They are very clear, image well, and have excellent dynamics for rock, but also sound great with acoustical music and jazz. The only possible downside is the cabinet construction is a little more involved with the open back midrange chambers and the MTM portion where space gets tight for the ribbon tweeter. You could also make construction simpler by front or rear porting these designs verses the bottom port.

I have not heard the Anthology. They use the same bass drivers, but the midrange and tweeter are different than the Statements models (V1 and V2).

If your space is smaller, I would probably recommend the Mini Statements over the full sized Statements. The full Statements are VERY large and VERY heavy...like coffin sized and well over 100 lbs. each. Sound signature would be very similar with the Mini Statements, but slightly less imposing stature. Mini Statements are still big and still dynamic.

Good luck choosing and have fun building!

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post #5 of 55 Old 03-21-2019, 05:27 PM
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Get a pair of DIYSG 1299s and build them into ported towers like @Jk7.2 did. Check out his thread about them. They sounded amazing - I got to hear them in 2-channel configuration and was amazed. If I had closed my eyes, I would not have been able to point to where the sound/speaker was in front of me. It was so clean and clear.
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post #6 of 55 Old 03-21-2019, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post
I have not heard the DIYSG speakers or the Zaph kit, but have heard good things about them from others I trust.

I built the original Statements (and the Statements center channel) and have heard the Mini Statements which are very similar. For the price, I personally could not be happier with the designs from Curt Campbell/Jim Holtz using those driver combinations. They are very clear, image well, and have excellent dynamics for rock, but also sound great with acoustical music and jazz. The only possible downside is the cabinet construction is a little more involved with the open back midrange chambers and the MTM portion where space gets tight for the ribbon tweeter. You could also make construction simpler by front or rear porting these designs verses the bottom port.

I have not heard the Anthology. They use the same bass drivers, but the midrange and tweeter are different than the Statements models (V1 and V2).

If your space is smaller, I would probably recommend the Mini Statements over the full sized Statements. The full Statements are VERY large and VERY heavy...like coffin sized and well over 100 lbs. each. Sound signature would be very similar with the Mini Statements, but slightly less imposing stature. Mini Statements are still big and still dynamic.

Good luck choosing and have fun building!
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig S King View Post
Get a pair of DIYSG 1299s and build them into ported towers like @Jk7.2 did. Check out his thread about them. They sounded amazing - I got to hear them in 2-channel configuration and was amazed. If I had closed my eyes, I would not have been able to point to where the sound/speaker was in front of me. It was so clean and clear.
I will have to read up on these. They are out of stock on the site.
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post #7 of 55 Old 03-21-2019, 11:33 PM
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The last several years I've become a fan of efficiency. Personally I wouldn't consider anything below 90 dB (yes I know). And it's better if 92-93 dB or better. The just sound more effortless, or so it sounds to me. Every 3dB gain in efficiency mean your amp can be half as big to play the same level.

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post #8 of 55 Old 03-22-2019, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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The last several years I've become a fan of efficiency. Personally I wouldn't consider anything below 90 dB (yes I know). And it's better if 92-93 dB or better. The just sound more effortless, or so it sounds to me. Every 3dB gain in efficiency mean your amp can be half as big to play the same level.

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I agree. I do like the sensitivity for music. I actually don't like it so much for movies which I know is going against the grain here. My wife is hard of hearing so heavily dynamic scenes render her hearing useless. Exceptionally clear speakers seem to help though.
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post #9 of 55 Old 03-23-2019, 05:20 AM
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I'm waiting for the 12" and 15" coaxials from diysg. I've been so happy with 4 different kits from them I can't imagine looking anywhere else.
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post #10 of 55 Old 03-23-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Rodriguez View Post
... My wife is hard of hearing so heavily dynamic scenes render her hearing useless. Exceptionally clear speakers seem to help though.
My wife has good hearing but little tolerance for heavily dynamic movie sound effects that really annoy her. Her main focus when viewing movies is the dialog, which primarily comes from the center speaker. That's one of the benefits of having a center channel with volume control that allows increasing center/dialog volume and/or reducing sound effects volume from the other speakers. When viewing movies the only thing she really enjoys from the other speakers is a good musical sound track. So in movies with good music and no heavily dynamic sound effects I keep the volume more balanced in all channels.
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post #11 of 55 Old 03-25-2019, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I have thought of the list I have and I think i have crossed a few off. This is not easy! I am really excited to build a kit soon though.

I have heard of the Maximus 12 and the Maximus LXE. Are they the same thing? I heard somewhere that the LXE is a higher end version but I can't confirm that to be true.

$1276 DIYSG Maximus 12: Seems like an awesome kit. I haven't seen anyone comparing it to anything other than store bought speakers outside of some that range about 4k. They said the Maximus speakers demolished it. I really like these.

$1100 +SH Statement II: These were compared in some threads to speakers in the $20k range. Time tested speaker design. Jim and Curt have come out with a kit that is supposed to sound better but it is out of my price range (Bordeauox). I think if the new kit was more affordable and as sensitive as the Statement, this would be my choice.

$983 + SH Anthology: I like the way these look. However, for a few more bucks, the statement II is supposed to have better sound quality. For slightly larger footprint, I don't think the size will make a big difference.

$855 + SH Finalist Tower: I am going to count this one out. I have the space. They are supposed to have good sound quality but I have the space for a larger speaker. Unless they are more detailed than the Statement II, then I will look into a tower form. They aren't very efficient at 85db

$1100 Zaph Audio SV12.3: I am going to skip this one. They seem nice but I don't see a lot of builds with this kit. It seems to be a good kit though.

$?1200+ DTQWT: I am going to count these out. They are Efficient speakers that are meant to run off tube amps. I don't have a power issue. They are more expensive to build than the Statement II

So I guess I am down to this:

$1276 DIYSG Maximus 12
$1100 +SH Statement II
$983 + SH Anthology


So I need to figure out how the sound quality of the Maximus 12 compares to the Statement II. Also, I don't have the space to listen to the Statement II 18" off the wall all the time. I will have to move it forward if I really want to listen to it. I do like the idea of the open back mids a lot though.

Sorry for the long post. Choosing a speaker is really difficult!
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post #12 of 55 Old 03-25-2019, 08:02 AM
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The 1299s should be on that list too. Bigger wave guide and better sensitivity.
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post #13 of 55 Old 03-25-2019, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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The 1299s should be on that list too. Bigger wave guide and better sensitivity.
I like the Maximus 12 for the high end drivers catered towards music. I will look into them a little bit though.
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post #14 of 55 Old 03-26-2019, 10:23 AM
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The Statements for music...DIYSG for movies.
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post #15 of 55 Old 03-26-2019, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Tux is working on an Audiophile speaker and the Maximus is regarded as a audiophile. It isn't that clean cut anymore.

I also found the Elsinore kit. I am going to look into it.

I am really into the ideas that the Mids are the focus on the statement line.

I am going to do a build thread on whatever I get. I wish I could just get two kits!!! But I don't have the space or the money.
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post #16 of 55 Old 04-05-2019, 07:19 AM
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[QUOTE=I wish I could just get two kits!!! But I don't have the space or the money.[/QUOTE]
I have for the past 30+ years believed I need 2 audio systems. One for head banging/techno music, and one for acoustical music. I have never heard a speaker that can do both excellently even though the ones I built are a fusion of both. These days I would say I need one for music and one for home theater cause no speaker can do both at the highest level…
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post #17 of 55 Old 04-05-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by buggers View Post
I have for the past 30+ years believed I need 2 audio systems. One for head banging/techno music, and one for acoustical music. I have never heard a speaker that can do both excellently even though the ones I built are a fusion of both. These days I would say I need one for music and one for home theater cause no speaker can do both at the highest level…
Yeah, this is my quest as well. Currently my SEAS Idunns plus 4x JBL CS1214 subs are doing a great job and frankly approach good club sound in my very small room nearfield setup, but I'm fantasizing about a new pair with big woofers for enhanced kick drum punch.

I have a pair of BIC RTR-EV15s in the living room that also do a fine job with both. The tweeters don't have the refinement and sparkle of high-end parts, but it's ok since I don't really do seated critical music listening with them.
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post #18 of 55 Old 04-05-2019, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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If I had the room and the money, I would order a DIYSG Max 12 build it and then build likely build a Statement II. I am just curious about the maximus 12 and purchasing something from Eric.

I am leaning towards the Statement II although I have recently learned of the Elsinore which is supposed to be a highly regarded kit.

I just made a purchase that might put a slight hold on things for a little bit. I got a really good deal on it. I think I need to adjust the bias as one side runs 10 degrees hotter.

Threshold S/500 designed by Nelson Pass:



what is a baby giraffe called

So now I need to get a preamp as neither of the two receivers that I have a pre amp out on the back

I am still stuck between these kits.

$1276 DIYSG Maximus 12
$1100 +SH Statement II
$983 + SH Anthology
$? Elsinore (It is supposed to be affordable but I don't have a cost on it yet.)
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Last edited by Michael Rodriguez; 04-05-2019 at 12:11 PM.
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post #19 of 55 Old 04-08-2019, 09:28 AM
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I've been going through the same thought process as OP for the last couple months. Use is for both HT and Music, but I prioritize music. I'm leaning towards the Statement II, but curious to learn about the new speaker offering from DIY. I was ready to pull the trigger on the 1099's but heard the Statement II's are top notch for music, especially considering I normally listen around -20dB
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post #20 of 55 Old 04-08-2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rodriguez View Post

I am still stuck between these kits.

$1276 DIYSG Maximus 12
$1100 +SH Statement II
$983 + SH Anthology
$? Elsinore (It is supposed to be affordable but I don't have a cost on it yet.)
What speakers do you have now? Why do you want to change them?

I have the Statement II's, as most everyone will say they are fantastic. However, I am keeping my eyes open for the right high sensitivity waveguide/horn speaker kit. When I built the statements I replaced an entry level Paradigm tower, the statements were better in most every way, but also kinda similar. I want something very different the next go around (I will most likely keep the statements as well), on your list I would lean to the Maximus 12.

Couple comments on the Statement II's, I havent found the Statements to be as sensitive as claimed. I believe them to be about 85 dB, in comparison to other sets of speakers I have.
I have found room placement to be easier than many claim. Mine live day to day about 20" from the back wall, going as close as 14" was still pretty good, closer than that I didnt like. Getting further away than 24" was really good, but I dont have the space for that.
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post #21 of 55 Old 04-08-2019, 12:46 PM
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What speakers do you have now? Why do you want to change them?

I have the Statement II's, as most everyone will say they are fantastic. However, I am keeping my eyes open for the right high sensitivity waveguide/horn speaker kit. When I built the statements I replaced an entry level Paradigm tower, the statements were better in most every way, but also kinda similar. I want something very different the next go around (I will most likely keep the statements as well), on your list I would lean to the Maximus 12.

Couple comments on the Statement II's, I havent found the Statements to be as sensitive as claimed. I believe them to be about 85 dB, in comparison to other sets of speakers I have.
I have found room placement to be easier than many claim. Mine live day to day about 20" from the back wall, going as close as 14" was still pretty good, closer than that I didnt like. Getting further away than 24" was really good, but I dont have the space for that.
Not to hi-jack the thread, but it sounds like Michael and I have similar interests. Since you have the Statement II's, what are you hoping to gain from a high sensitivity waveguide speaker? Are you using them in a home theater setup, and what are you using to drive them?

I currently have Paradigm Monitor 5's. I love the clear and laid back top end of the Paradigms, but I'm sure you're aware of the shortcomings, especially in the lower midbass range. Music has no punch, and home theater effects sound a bit dull. I love an open and airy sound signature with music, but I need that IMPACT from the kick drum and guitar. I'm not as critical when it comes to home theater. If an AVR (Yamaha RX-A1060) isn't enough to drive the Statement II's, I'll get a secondary amp.
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post #22 of 55 Old 04-08-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AngryJeremy View Post
Not to hi-jack the thread, but it sounds like Michael and I have similar interests. Since you have the Statement II's, what are you hoping to gain from a high sensitivity waveguide speaker? Are you using them in a home theater setup, and what are you using to drive them?

I currently have Paradigm Monitor 5's. I love the clear and laid back top end of the Paradigms, but I'm sure you're aware of the shortcomings, especially in the lower midbass range. Music has no punch, and home theater effects sound a bit dull. I love an open and airy sound signature with music, but I need that IMPACT from the kick drum and guitar. I'm not as critical when it comes to home theater. If an AVR (Yamaha RX-A1060) isn't enough to drive the Statement II's, I'll get a secondary amp.
The statements are driven with hypex nCore amps, they should have about 300 watts each. Its a home theater setup, but I also have a music first mentality. I am hoping for a bit more immediacy/impact to the music. My biggest complaint about the Statement II's is the're almost too smooth, its hard to explain, they get loud, they have the detail, everything sounds correct, soundstage and imaging are phenomenal, but I want more impact. I am not just talking about midbass punch, but throughout the range. Perhaps its a room issue as I am open to the bulk of the house, but this is the kind of thing that people talk about with the merits of high sensitivity speakers.
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post #23 of 55 Old 04-08-2019, 10:09 PM
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Haven’t heard the full Statements/II but have the minis and I never get tired of them. Using the old center which is lacking (planning center II for later) and speedsters for surrounds (good little surround for these). For a mix of music and movies they’re great, agree they like power, and get plenty loud for 90% of the time, Emotiva xpa gen 1 here. Properly out from the wall they throw an awesome soundstage and detailed. Don’t build them if you don’t have the room behind and around them.
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post #24 of 55 Old 04-09-2019, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasma_fan View Post
The statements are driven with hypex nCore amps, they should have about 300 watts each. Its a home theater setup, but I also have a music first mentality. I am hoping for a bit more immediacy/impact to the music. My biggest complaint about the Statement II's is the're almost too smooth, its hard to explain, they get loud, they have the detail, everything sounds correct, soundstage and imaging are phenomenal, but I want more impact. I am not just talking about midbass punch, but throughout the range. Perhaps its a room issue as I am open to the bulk of the house, but this is the kind of thing that people talk about with the merits of high sensitivity speakers.
It sounds like you've done the research, so what do you see as the compromises of going from the Statements to a high sensitivity speaker? My biggest concern with the 1099's is what I've seen described as "a wall of sound". I love "open and airy" in the upper frequencies - can you get that with a high sensitivity compression driver?
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post #25 of 55 Old 04-09-2019, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryJeremy View Post
It sounds like you've done the research, so what do you see as the compromises of going from the Statements to a high sensitivity speaker? My biggest concern with the 1099's is what I've seen described as "a wall of sound". I love "open and airy" in the upper frequencies - can you get that with a high sensitivity compression driver?
Having never heard any of the DIYSG designs, for that matter the only high sensitivity stuff I have heard was klipsch a long time ago, so its unknown territory for me. I have a few reasons that I haven't jumped on them, but they aren't sound related. (shipping, not needing more speakers, etc) Regarding the actual sound I would like to hear something with similar DNA before I was to get a more expensive kit, If I heard the Maximus 12 (or something else) and knew that was "it" I would instantly order a kit. I have been tempted to order one of the cheaper options as a garage speaker and if I was really into it then get one of the better models.

From reading the biggest compromises for me might be less finesse and as you noted a wall of sound vs a more 3D sound stage. Lots of guys talk about very good imaging, so thats good. This maybe not applicable but the 'openness' of the sound. One of the things the Statements do really well is have a natural open sound, best way I can describe it is after living with the Statements many other (usually cheaper) speakers have a 'boxy' sound to them and it would be a shame to change back to that.
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post #26 of 55 Old 04-09-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by AngryJeremy View Post
It sounds like you've done the research, so what do you see as the compromises of going from the Statements to a high sensitivity speaker? My biggest concern with the 1099's is what I've seen described as "a wall of sound". I love "open and airy" in the upper frequencies - can you get that with a high sensitivity compression driver?

I also have a pair of htm10, I agree there is an immediacy to the sound, but they do not have as detailed or airy sound. They do what they do very well but do not have the level of detail. Then again going from the htm to the statements you will notice the htm vertical dispersion is better controlled. They’re pretty different. The htm have a more controlled, immediate presentation, the statement minis have a more detailed sound, bigger stage.
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post #27 of 55 Old 04-10-2019, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by plasma_fan View Post
From reading the biggest compromises for me might be less finesse and as you noted a wall of sound vs a more 3D sound stage. Lots of guys talk about very good imaging, so thats good. This maybe not applicable but the 'openness' of the sound. One of the things the Statements do really well is have a natural open sound, best way I can describe it is after living with the Statements many other (usually cheaper) speakers have a 'boxy' sound to them and it would be a shame to change back to that.
What type of content, or music style, do you listen to that is missing that "impact"?
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post #28 of 55 Old 04-10-2019, 09:28 AM
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What type of content, or music style, do you listen to that is missing that "impact"?
Metal & hard rock. I think it can be tough to get "right". The Statements do a great job with really complex passages, that other speakers I have heard fall apart with. But compared to a live show, even at comparable volumes, they are lacking the impact. With my next pair of speakers I really hope to combine the best qualities of the statements with some more impact.
I'd go as far to say pop, hip hop, and EDM is lacking "impact" as well. Again, live shows and high sensitivity PA systems...
Blues and Jazz I dont have any complaints.

To be fair the Statements are very, very good. I am nitpicking here because this is where my headspace is for my next pair of speakers. I also understand that every speaker is a compromise, hence some reluctance to dive right in with something else when I am still very happy with the statements.
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post #29 of 55 Old 04-11-2019, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by plasma_fan View Post
Metal & hard rock. I think it can be tough to get "right". The Statements do a great job with really complex passages, that other speakers I have heard fall apart with. But compared to a live show, even at comparable volumes, they are lacking the impact. With my next pair of speakers I really hope to combine the best qualities of the statements with some more impact.
I'd go as far to say pop, hip hop, and EDM is lacking "impact" as well. Again, live shows and high sensitivity PA systems...
Blues and Jazz I dont have any complaints.

To be fair the Statements are very, very good. I am nitpicking here because this is where my headspace is for my next pair of speakers. I also understand that every speaker is a compromise, hence some reluctance to dive right in with something else when I am still very happy with the statements.
Do you think a sealed version of the Statement would provide more impact that you're looking for? If you have the Statement Center (3.2 cu. ft. sealed), maybe try running that as one of your mains to see how the sound is affected.
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post #30 of 55 Old 04-11-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by AngryJeremy View Post
Do you think a sealed version of the Statement would provide more impact that you're looking for? If you have the Statement Center (3.2 cu. ft. sealed), maybe try running that as one of your mains to see how the sound is affected.
I actually run them with plugged ports now, fits the bass response of my room better. Cant say there is any notable difference in impact with the ports plugged or open.
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