Advice needed to setup Um-18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 04-02-2019, 03:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Advice needed to setup Um-18

Hello guys. I need help from u experts to fix the setting from my Inuke Nx6000d. I have made dual sealed Um-18s. Im geting good air pressure but chest slaming bass or punch im not geting. I have seenin inuke setting it has many things to play but im totally null in it i dont know anything about setting except phase adjustment. Kindly guide me where should i set all the setting to get more punch or how can i boost things up.
My speakrs are set at small
Crossover set at 80hz.
I will really appriciate u experts can help me getting out from is disappointing situation.
Im posting pics of the setting where they r set at.
Thanks.
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post #2 of 22 Old 04-02-2019, 04:14 AM
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2 things:


1) UM's aren't like PRO drivers or horn loaded drivers that drive crazy SPL levels for mid bass. If you add EQ for the mid bass you could cook the voice coils. When adding this, go slow.


2) You could be sitting in a null, only way to tell is measure your room.


I'm assuming you have them wired in parallel for 4ohm.
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Last edited by Trimlock; 04-02-2019 at 04:18 AM.
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post #3 of 22 Old 04-02-2019, 05:51 AM
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Speaker location dominates all other attributes. Move them around for better slam. Its a trial and error effort, but moving them closer to walls or corners will help with what you want.
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post #4 of 22 Old 04-02-2019, 05:53 AM
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I agree with Trimlock. I would say build a couple of VBSS, but being as you're running sealed, integration of sealed and ported may be a daunting task for you.
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post #5 of 22 Old 04-02-2019, 06:26 AM
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Its almost plug and play if you use the sealed for ULF. You'll just have to play with the crossover point a bit.
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post #6 of 22 Old 04-02-2019, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Trimlock. Thanks for the reply. I agreed this is not the PA driver. But im comparing it with the SVS Sb4000 sub that sub has punch and good midbass. So i was thinking boosting levels from dsp may help improving the sub sound. Btw how can i measure the sub ?
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post #7 of 22 Old 04-02-2019, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Trimlock. Yes its at 4ohms. I have share connections diagram.
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post #8 of 22 Old 04-02-2019, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Placing subs at the corners wont make a boomy sound ? I have shared a pic how they r placed.
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post #9 of 22 Old 04-03-2019, 12:52 AM
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Nice looking room! You measure using a microphone, like a Umik-1 and REW. You can start with DSP by increase in small increments and being present when you do a long term test so you can turn it off if it looks/sounds like you are going to damage the driver.


Move to corners may cause a boomy sound, but this is something called a room mode, which is what DSP is used for taming. You can get better chest punch and take out 'room booms' too. But you need a mic to do this.
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post #10 of 22 Old 04-03-2019, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshantariq View Post
Placing subs at the corners wont make a boomy sound ? I have shared a pic how they r placed.
You've got your's placed like mine; between the center and L/R. You'll get plenty of room gain out of that without having to put them in the corner. Beautiful room BTW.

You *really* need to get a UMIK-1 microphone and measure what's going on so you can dial those in with EQ. Get the UMIK-1 and download the REW software and take measurements. Then you'll be able to see what you've got too much or too little of across frequency.

The other thing you'll be able to do with the UMIK/REW setup is adjust the distance for the subwoofers in your AVR correctly. The distance that the AVR's room correction software chose for you during setup may not be correct. If it isn't, you'll be able to see dips in SPL, in and around the crossover frequency you've chosen which would certainly take away from the affect you're looking for.
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post #11 of 22 Old 04-03-2019, 04:28 AM
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One more thing, how do you have your 6000D hooked up? I've also got two UM18's sealed. I hook each of them up to one of the output channels of the 6000D. I only use one input (from the subwoofer output of the AVR) to the 6000D though and put the 6000D into "Biamp1" mode, which copies the one input to both outputs. I notice that your 6000D is in "Dual" mode, which I'm not exactly sure about (not sure what that does).
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post #12 of 22 Old 04-03-2019, 05:39 AM
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There is no EQ or any other fix that comes close to positioning them optimally. Having them look good between the mains is a choice many make and if measured its fine...but if it is done for appearance or as a guess then thats exactly what you get.

The idea that you should build more before optimizing what you have is a very, very popular and expensive method of dealing with a time consuming problem by brute force (adding more sources).

Corners may cause boom but they also may cause you to have the best sound possible in your space. Although measuring is almost a must, moving them closer to the corners will tell you a lot. A foot at a time you will quickly hear the difference and know if your raw response is closer to what sounds good. Those corners may or may not be ideal-- anywhere reasonable in the room is a possibility to be considered. This is not a living room! You have a dedicated space (and quite nice imo).

Why are they where they are now? Not because its the best sound in your room it seems.

This is not meant to be critical-- just to get you to think about this differently. In most rooms you can create what you want and need but it does take a lot of effort.

Throw out what you think and try many options in an unbiased manner. If need be put them on sliders or a furniture cart to move them more easily.

Originally i had 4 in my room and spent maybe 100 hours testing over and over... thats extreme but i also know its not possible to do better. 2 is more complicated than 1 but would take imo about 10 to 20 hours to find the ideal spots.

Even the theory to find the best 2 positions doesnt hold up. The ideal position for 1 is not necessarily the ideal position when using 2.

Although this sounds like a lot of work, it will in fact create the best possible result imo...and $100 for that UMIK is the best 100 you will ever spend.

In such a well treated room the traps should do a great job of providing clear unsmeared midbass...its just a matter of position imo.

If im wrong...theres always more $$ to spend on extra subs.

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post #13 of 22 Old 04-03-2019, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboAVS View Post
There is no EQ or any other fix that comes close to positioning them optimally. Having them look good between the mains is a choice many make and if measured its fine...but if it is done for appearance or as a guess then thats exactly what you get.
Agree with everything you said. Placement trumps EQ. I didn't mean to suggest that those positions are optimal, only that they worked out for me and I know that I totally lucked out (because I'm very limited in where else I could place a sub). They might work out for him too. There's no way to tell until he measures.
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post #14 of 22 Old 04-03-2019, 01:20 PM
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I agree with everyone on the possible null advice.

I have a sealed UM-18 in a ~1700ft^3 room. Had it for years and assumed it was as good as it could get. But it never had the "chest thump" I was thinking it should have.

Finally broke down and bought a MiniDSP 2x4 and a UMIK-1. I had a huge null at 43Hz in the subs current location (just like you, between the left front and center channel speaker). I moved it around a bunch, including corner loading, but it didn't kill the null until I moved it underneath my center channel speaker!

After that, I used the MiniDSP to make some cuts and the result is pretty flat to 10Hz. I'm much happier overall. Definitely got some of the "thump" now. Now I just want MORE!
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post #15 of 22 Old 04-03-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Agree with everything you said. Placement trumps EQ. I didn't mean to suggest that those positions are optimal, only that they worked out for me and I know that I totally lucked out (because I'm very limited in where else I could place a sub). They might work out for him too. There's no way to tell until he measures.
I knew you had a good understanding of it all, I just wanted to be sure the OP understood how important the placement is.
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post #16 of 22 Old 04-03-2019, 10:31 PM
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Now I am no expert but somewhere on this forum is a link to an article that illuminates the results from a focus group immersed in multiple levels of high decibel sound.

I believe the jist was that "chest punch" was not experienced until the hz came up to 100hz to 200hz or more. Something to do with range that easily infiltrates your pie hole into your lungs.

Another perspective is the shear weight of an impactful sound wave decreases exponentially with distance.

I am currently working on some near field VBSS subs to see if this is in fact true.

Beautiful room my friend, I am sure it will sound amazing soon.

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post #17 of 22 Old 04-04-2019, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Trimlock. Thanks bro. Okay ill work on it as u r guiding.thanks.
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post #18 of 22 Old 04-04-2019, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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@jcmccorm . Thanks man. Ill work on measurements as i have no experience with mic and rew. Ill b needing some time to learn it but ill definable see it.
My nx6000d connections r like one sub us connected with channel A other one is with cannel B and in DSP its at Dual model and my subs r connected at 4ohms. . Do i have to change the connections or keep going with same.
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post #19 of 22 Old 04-04-2019, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
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@robo Avs. Thanks. Lookis like it the time ive to buy UMIK 1 first as everyone is recommending that step. Once ill get the reaponse then ill b able to figure out where null and dip and peak and yes u r right i need to get some spare time to put in my room for the outcome.
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post #20 of 22 Old 04-04-2019, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshantariq View Post
@jcmccorm . Thanks man. Ill work on measurements as i have no experience with mic and rew. Ill b needing some time to learn it but ill definable see it.
My nx6000d connections r like one sub us connected with channel A other one is with cannel B and in DSP its at Dual model and my subs r connected at 4ohms. . Do i have to change the connections or keep going with same.
I'm not sure what dual mode is in the 6000D and I couldn't find it in the manual. Let me just share how I set mine up.

I have only one input to the 6000D from my AVR's subwoofer output. I use an RCA<->XLR cable to go between the AVR's subwoofer output and the Channel A input of the 6000D. Then put the 6000D in Biamp1 mode. What this does is route the one input of the 6000D to both A & B outputs (copies the one input to both outputs). Now you've got both of your UM18's running off the same source signal.

A note on measuring. I know it's probably overwhelming at this point with everyone telling you that you should buy a microphone and measure. You might be thinking that this DIY stuff isn't as easy you thought it would be because now you have a separate amplifier to deal with and now you have to figure out how to measure your room to get the subwoofers sounding right. Why couldn't things be easy when you had a pre-built subwoofer with a built in amplifier and all you had to do was connect it to your AVR, turn it on, and adjust the levels with a sound meter? I know because I was that guy for a long time. The thing that I've come to learn is that having a pre-built subwoofer doesn't get you anything except having a subwoofer that was already designed and built. Until you really measure it, you still don't know what you have and there's a 99% chance that it's not right, whether you bought the subwoofer or built it.

Anyway, I didn't mean to be preachy, just encouraging. Everyone here wants to help out and in the end, you'll end up with a sound system you'll be really happy with. It just takes a little time and effort to get there.
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post #21 of 22 Old 04-04-2019, 05:20 AM
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It is true, no matter what (if you went OEM or DIY) you still need to measure bass and EQ for it. Almost no one has a room built that is plug and play for bass content. No matter what, having a mic and REW is going to elevate your game.
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post #22 of 22 Old 04-05-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagtha View Post
I believe the jist was that "chest punch" was not experienced until the hz came up to 100hz to 200hz or more. Something to do with range that easily infiltrates your pie hole into your lungs.

Here’s a diagram I found somewhere in the midbass chest thump discussions here on AVS. Looks like 50-100 is the key to slam:
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