First build 8 x 12's bang for buck - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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First build 8 x 12's bang for buck

After being an over a decade lurker and reader. I have finally pulled the trigger on my first speaker build project. I decided to buy 8 of the $29 best buy 12" jbl subs. I also decided to power them with an Behringer NX3000D, and a umik-1 microphone. My room is 15' 6" x 22' in my partially finished basement on a concrete slab. I bought these because I really thought they would look cool and in the front of my room under the projector screen and they were inside my budget. The height to the bottom of the my screen is 16" but I can move that up a few inches if needed. However, I like where it sits currently.



Currently my system consists of 3- Definitive BP9060's(L,R), and a BP9080 center. These have built in subs. These were originally in my living room but I moved them to my theater room until I can build the mains I want pobably HTM-12's if I had to guess. I also currently have one PL-200 sub. I am using a Denon x2400 receiver. So I am guessing anything I am going to do with these 8 will be much better than what I have now. I am probably 70% happy with what I have now. I just want more of it.


Current Theater build in process. Finishing wrapping up velvet ceiling.


I have read the $29 best buy thread but am looking for some recommendations for wiring, box size, and lastly amp setup. I figured I would build a box for 4 drivers, or possibly 2 drivers per box.



Some first questions I have is can I just use normal 12 gauge speaker wire without the speakon connections? What size mdf/plywood should I buy for the boxes 1/2" or 3/4".



I am open to all suggestions and appreciate all the years of reading material.
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post #2 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 08:47 AM
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Make sealed enclosures that are ~1.5ft^3 per driver in them. Whether you're making four 2 driver enclosures or two 4 driver enclosures is up to you.

18mm thick Baltic Birch plywood is my go to for subwoofer enclosures.
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post #3 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 08:57 AM
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Are you willing to go near field behind the couch? That would get the most out of the subs. For wiring 4 in a box you would put two in a series that would give you 8 Ohms for that pair and do the same for the second pair. Then you would put the two pairs in parallel for a 4 Ohm load. One box on each channel of the 3000 should do nicely. I can scribble things in MS Paint, but it will not be pretty As stated, you will want 1.5 cuft per driver. There are prefab boxes available, but the volume comes out to be less than 1.5 cuft.
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post #4 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 11:28 AM
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8x of the JBLs along with HTM-12's. I can give you the cutlist for the boxes if you like.

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post #5 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
8x of the JBLs along with HTM-12's. I can give you the cutlist for the boxes if you like.

That would be nice and thank you.



How do you figure out how much actual volume you need for a box. I can see that for a single driver at the 1.5 sq ft recommendation? I know if I build a box 12" H x 12" W x 18" D that gives me 1.5 sq ft. However, how do you know how much to build "extra" to take into account for the driver volume inside and any possible bracing? Which leads me to question number 2. If I use 3/4" MDF and build a box for 2 subs will that need bracing? How do you know how much to use? Can I just use a 1" x 1" piece of wood for this?
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post #6 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Are you willing to go near field behind the couch? That would get the most out of the subs. For wiring 4 in a box you would put two in a series that would give you 8 Ohms for that pair and do the same for the second pair. Then you would put the two pairs in parallel for a 4 Ohm load. One box on each channel of the 3000 should do nicely. I can scribble things in MS Paint, but it will not be pretty As stated, you will want 1.5 cuft per driver. There are prefab boxes available, but the volume comes out to be less than 1.5 cuft.

I guess I thought 8 subs alone would leave me "feeling it" in the room. However, it does make me wonder what I am missing. It sounds like it may be worth experimenting with maybe putting 4 behind the couch and 4 upfront and seeing how it goes. Does that sound like a road even worth traveling down?



What if I waited and bought 4 more to run dedicated behind the couch? Is that something I can do after the fact? Can my amp support it?
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post #7 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpolachak View Post
That would be nice and thank you.



How do you figure out how much actual volume you need for a box. I can see that for a single driver at the 1.5 sq ft recommendation? I know if I build a box 12" H x 12" W x 18" D that gives me 1.5 sq ft. However, how do you know how much to build "extra" to take into account for the driver volume inside and any possible bracing? Which leads me to question number 2. If I use 3/4" MDF and build a box for 2 subs will that need bracing? How do you know how much to use? Can I just use a 1" x 1" piece of wood for this?
No problem! I won't be able to get it until I get home from work but I'll post it here.

For the volume, first knock off 0.75" off of all your dimensions since you only want internal volume. Your 1.5cuft box then becomes 1.26cuft. For the driver, I *think* I used 0.2cuft. Then you *will* want to consider the bracing as well.

The good thing is that you don't have to be exacting about this. Get it close.

I'll send a cutlist later (it includes bracing pieces). Use it or use it as a starting point on something else that fits your space better.
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post #8 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 12:02 PM
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The 1.5 cu ft box takes in driver displacement, Anything from 1.5 to 2.0 will work. Really in your case though since you are limited in power, I would build closer to 2cu ft per driver. I have 8 on a 6000dsp in around 1.9cu ft and it works very well. Basically lets the driver move more with less power if you build a slightly bigger box.

I started with 4 behind me and then moved the 4 up front and personally I liked the 4 up front more. I dont need to feel a car door shut and get kicked in the back. After that I bought 4 more since I had the 6000dsp anyways and now have 8 up front and love it. I still get tactile response, but my personal preference is I like them more up front, 4 in each front corner.

Putting 4 behind you will make the 4 up front kind of worthless since youll be getting such a pounding from the 4 behind you. A lot of people who do 4 behind them arent running them with a high x-over to avoid localization. Upfront you can run them to 100-120 and it blends with the mains a lot better (I think). Definitely feel free to experiment though.
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post #9 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpolachak View Post
I guess I thought 8 subs alone would leave me "feeling it" in the room. However, it does make me wonder what I am missing. It sounds like it may be worth experimenting with maybe putting 4 behind the couch and 4 upfront and seeing how it goes. Does that sound like a road even worth traveling down?



What if I waited and bought 4 more to run dedicated behind the couch? Is that something I can do after the fact? Can my amp support it?

You could run them up front and behind the couch. The question will be how much manual tweaking you want to do. You will have to delay the rear subs so the sound reaches you at the same time in the MLP as the front subs. The question will be does the AVR calibrate each output separately for you or will you have to measure and make changes on the amp to account for the delay. Running two sets up front and then one behind the couch off the same amp does not feel optimal.


I would play around with the sub positioning and then do whatever sounds the best. Down the road the JBLs will be on sale again, then you can bring 8 more into the fold
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post #10 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 12:31 PM
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Could you add one more driver and do 3x3 in a "magic square" arrangement? Seems to be the best way to get the most out of these drivers and a single amp.
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post #11 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 04:01 PM
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Here's the cutlist (attached). They ended up being 2.1cuft internal volume (per driver) with bracing. That doesn't include the driver volume.

Here's a couple of pics too. Note that I sized those boards with some "overhang" when they go together so you'll have to go back over the edges with a flush-trim bit on a router. (you'll see what I mean in the pic)



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post #12 of 48 Old 04-17-2019, 07:17 PM
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Could you add one more driver and do 3x3 in a "magic square" arrangement? Seems to be the best way to get the most out of these drivers and a single amp.
1 3x3 limits placement. 4 dual boxes lets you mess around more with placement options. I remember one guy did 2 in each corner of his room and liked it.

For the room pictured I'd do a floor to ceiling enclosure on each side of the screen with a grill so you can't see them. Youd also create a nice screen wall stage effect. If that doesn't do it I'd add do 2-4 nearfield.
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post #13 of 48 Old 04-18-2019, 02:06 AM
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1 3x3 limits placement. 4 dual boxes lets you mess around more with placement options. I remember one guy did 2 in each corner of his room and liked it.

For the room pictured I'd do a floor to ceiling enclosure on each side of the screen with a grill so you can't see them. Youd also create a nice screen wall stage effect. If that doesn't do it I'd add do 2-4 nearfield.
He could do three boxes of three drivers each, and locate one triple-box on each side of the screen and triple-box behind the couch. Or he could do nine individual boxes and scatter them wherever he wanted to.
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post #14 of 48 Old 04-18-2019, 04:45 AM
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That could work, but you'd need 6 on one channel and 3 on another to be able DSP correctly nearfield vs farfield, and that messes some things up.

- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
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post #15 of 48 Old 04-19-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
8x of the JBLs along with HTM-12's. I can give you the cutlist for the boxes if you like.

Are those Fusion 15s for your mains and center?
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post #16 of 48 Old 04-19-2019, 09:52 AM
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Are those Fusion 15s for your mains and center?

Ummm


Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm
8x of the JBLs along with HTM-12's.

Sub builds: Yet another Infinity 1260 build | Twins! | Modified V.B.S.S. build | UM12-22 builds | AV stand and sealed UM18s

Speaker builds: DIYSG HTM-10 build | DIYSG Volt-6 build | DIYSG Fusion-8 builds
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post #17 of 48 Old 04-19-2019, 10:22 AM
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Awesome build, love the finish of the speakers and subs. How often can these be had for 30$ a pop?

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post #18 of 48 Old 04-19-2019, 10:43 AM
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Oh missed that I guess. I think I was distracted by the beautiful paint job.
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post #19 of 48 Old 04-19-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Here's the cutlist (attached). They ended up being 2.1cuft internal volume (per driver) with bracing. That doesn't include the driver volume.

Here's a couple of pics too. Note that I sized those boards with some "overhang" when they go together so you'll have to go back over the edges with a flush-trim bit on a router. (you'll see what I mean in the pic)
Honestly I'm just happy to see someone else who leaves all the tags on the Harbor Freight clamps for no apparent reason except maybe laziness.
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post #20 of 48 Old 04-19-2019, 11:08 AM
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Awesome build, love the finish of the speakers and subs. How often can these be had for 30$ a pop?

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Seems like they've been going on sale every couple of weeks for one day only. If you want them, you won't have to wait long. They're a bargain. I've got two UM18's in 4cuft boxes behind the seating (can't see them in the picture). I've swapped them a couple of times with the JBLs up front and run REW sweeps. With similar (but not equal) EQ between the JBLs and UM18's, I can get the same bass response per REW. I'd call that a bargain for the JBLs. It just costs a little more cubic feet to support the JBLs so if you've got the space, it's worth it (As you can see, I barely had the space for them up front). I've found I like the UM18's nearfield more than the JBLs. It's not night-and-day different though.
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post #21 of 48 Old 04-20-2019, 11:08 AM
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Honestly I'm just happy to see someone else who leaves all the tags on the Harbor Freight clamps for no apparent reason except maybe laziness.
Ha! You busted me!
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post #22 of 48 Old 05-16-2019, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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So I finally am getting back to this project. Life has me busy.

What do you guys think of using these boxes? They are 3/4" mdf assembled and I am going to re-wrap them in black velvet. Building 4 boxes almost doesn't seem like its worth the work.

@jcmccorm Do you think these will perform significantly different then the larger boxes you sent me?
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post #23 of 48 Old 05-16-2019, 03:00 PM
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FTR, I've tested a few velvets wrt light absorption, minimum sheen etc. for the ceiling

cut to the chase

Joann's royalty velvet #3 ,

last weekend I got a coupon for 50% off, Ca-Ching!

only $10 / yd.

sign up with them, it can be worth it

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post #24 of 48 Old 05-16-2019, 03:05 PM
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some pics in the last few posts

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...pirit-diy.html

and a few others

HTH
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DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
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post #25 of 48 Old 05-16-2019, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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@asarose247 Thanks for the recommendation. I bought 3 volts of material already and have it on hand. I wrapped my room in the stuff.

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post #26 of 48 Old 05-16-2019, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
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So I finally am getting back to this project. Life has me busy.

What do you guys think of using these boxes? They are 3/4" mdf assembled and I am going to re-wrap them in black velvet. Building 4 boxes almost doesn't seem like its worth the work.

@jcmccorm Do you think these will perform significantly different then the larger boxes you sent me?
Did you forget a link? As long as they're around 1.5cuft per driver, you shouldn't notice a difference.
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post #27 of 48 Old 05-17-2019, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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post #28 of 48 Old 05-17-2019, 06:13 AM
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That's a good looking box. A little on the small side (I get 1.14cuft per driver, not including the volume of the internal divider or the JBLs themselves). I'd call it just under 1cuft per driver. It'll work.

Here's a quick sim.



The blue is 2cuft and the red is 1.1cuft. You'll lose a few db on the low end but can make up for it with EQ. You'll get the same output but it'll cost you some more power on the low end to get there.
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post #29 of 48 Old 05-17-2019, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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@jcmccorm The people in this forum never seem to amaze me with your generosity! Do you think it would be worth getting the ported boxes? If it were you which would you get? I am going to buy these today. Getting excited.
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post #30 of 48 Old 05-17-2019, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jpolachak View Post
@jcmccorm The people in this forum never seem to amaze me with your generosity! Do you think it would be worth getting the ported boxes? If it were you which would you get? I am going to buy these today. Getting excited.


The ported boxes look to be tuned to 39Hz, which isn’t ideal for home theater use. These drivers also like much larger ported boxes for better frequency response. They are more suited to small sealed boxes. Probably better to get the sealed version and EQ the lower end.
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