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post #31 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers

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Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
Ok. Why not just place the Crowsons under the couch and forgo the additional riser?



My plan is to place them as they are now, just on top of the BOSS. I’ve got a 6k coming for my Crowsons and I’ll power the JBLs off the 3k I have now. I only use the Mini dsp; I don’t like the software for the INukes/NX amps. From everything I’ve read I’ll have to put a filter on the BOSS, but sill plan on running the Crowsons filterless; unless the added power makes them distracting. Right now I don’t get much out of them above 35hz or 40hz.



I will add that I typically don’t watch a movie WITHOUT my Crowsons having BEQ applied. But, no other filters.





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If you place the Crowsons under the BOSS platform, then you’re coupling that to the ground, although it might not be that noticeable, it’s still not floating the platform for maximum wobble. I believe @Nalleh and @SBuger pointed this out to me and that was their reason for the double platform design. They have done a lot of extensive testing, so I went with their advice.

In the coming weeks, I might actually try to eliminate the top platform under the couch and see how it responds, as I’m not loving the added height from the double riser.

Another other thing I noticed is when I have my feet on the BOSS platform, I can definitely tell which device is giving me the most TR. Since the Crowsons are in the back of the seating, there’s a definite difference in energy coming from each area of the seating when resting my feet on the plywood, but with the seating reclined it eliminates the directional feeling of the TR if that makes sense. It’s almost like having your legs directly coupled to an actuator which is a weird feeling and not something I honestly care for. This could be remedied by having the couch platform come out much further for my feet to rest on that instead of the BOSS platform, but I’m not building another one. . And my wife already isn’t a fan of the much larger BOSS platform, she didn’t think it would be noticeable like the smaller one that fits right under the seating that wasn’t able to be seen.

Playing The Hulk street fight scene made this clearly evident, because it’s like getting a seriously strong jolt to the feet and legs with a more subtle effect in the rest of my body that has some energy absorbed from the cushioned seating.

This unusual sense of stronger TR across different parts of the body could maybe be eliminated with different Crowson placement or possibly setting a more negative delay on the BOSS than the Crowsons. Lots to play with now! I have a couple days off now so will be experimenting.

Edit: so after playing a few more movie demos, I’m afraid to modify this setup in any way it’s that good. The TR and experience is absolutely insane. I’ll let the double riser stand for a while and see how things shake out.
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Last edited by Sekosche; 04-23-2019 at 08:52 AM.
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post #32 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers

Left driver and left Crowson position.

Under recliner:

Full BOSS!


This thing is an absolute beast for TR!
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Last edited by Sekosche; 04-23-2019 at 05:29 PM.
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post #33 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Luckily Gorilla chimed in with a driver and knows his stuff!

I think @SBuger found his nearfield subs much less necessary with a BOSS in play.

Hoping to finish up today, got the platform glued/screwed. Going to round over the edges and then stain them. Not sure I’ll have much time to play with it tonight though before working a few days straight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Awesome little project, good luck on your BOSS build. I’m using a 12-18dB butterworth LPF I think on most my gear, and add a heavy DEQ boost (6-12dB) in the iNuke software for below 20-25Hz for less than reference level listening and +3-6dB boost in the miniDSP below 20Hz.

Since adding the BOSS I dropped my MA’s down to a 25Hz LPF and have the BOSS at 35Hz LPF.

My Crowsons and BOSS are both on the same amp using one channel of an iNuke 6KDSP, but might move the BOSS to an extra 3KDSP channel, as it’s significantly underutilizing the 6K’s power.

I do wonder what it would feel like without the separate Crowsons platform with just the couch resting firmly on the BOSS riser but that would mean no MA’s; this setup worked very well for just the Crowsons having the seating secured to the platform to better directly distribute the energy.

I might go back to a single riser one day, but the whole point was to not ditch the Crowsons, as they are still pretty sweet below ~15Hz (and obviously not cheap), but even with BEQ movies that’s a pretty limited bandwidth to justify a lot of modifications to keep in the system. The seating is a bit higher than I’d prefer too with both platforms, so will see how long the double riser holds a place in my system.

Either way, the BOSS is here to stay. I can see quite a few variations of this little guy popping up with different drivers over time.

Awesome build man, looks great and sounds like it's making some great impressions so far too. Pretty crazy that the BOSS can compete with the MAs huh!

As far as the VNF subs go, yes I still like them in the mix and don't think I'll ever not want them in there running as well. They still really bring the TR down to 8-10hz by themselves, although not quite as good with seats on the BOSS platform (but still do add to the TR when combined with the BOSS and or MAs). BUT the VNFs just bring the midbass punch and TR that the BOSS does not, plus a little something extra, I think from the PR they bring from the drivers being so close. That said though about the Midbss, I prefer the TR from the BOSS tapered off below about 35hz, so it's not gonna do much in that area, if any at all, in the 50hz and over mid bass chest slam region.

So about your platform with MAs and BOSS, yeah you'll just have to mess with it/them to see what everything feels like. With and without the extra platform with BOSS by itself, etc etc. All this stuff just takes time to test out though. Hard to find the time sometimes with all the other 'life' stuff we gotta deal with.

Iv'e been out for the last week or so, but finally started messing with mine again with VS measurements and whatnot and just posted a bit about it in Nalleh's thread. It may be of interest to you since your trying to run a similar setup as me with the BOSS, MAs and VNFs. Link HERE
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post #34 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers

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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Awesome build man, looks great and sounds like it's making some great impressions so far too. Pretty crazy that the BOSS can compete with the MAs huh!



As far as the VNF subs go, yes I still like them in the mix and don't think I'll ever not want them in there running as well. They still really bring the TR down to 8-10hz by themselves, although not quite as good with seats on the BOSS platform (but still do add to the TR when combined with the BOSS and or MAs). BUT the VNFs just bring the midbass punch and TR that the BOSS does not, plus a little something extra, I think from the PR they bring from the drivers being so close. That said though about the Midbss, I prefer the TR from the BOSS tapered off below about 35hz, so it's not gonna do much in that area, if any at all, in the 50hz and over mid bass chest slam region.



So about your platform with MAs and BOSS, yeah you'll just have to mess with it/them to see what everything feels like. With and without the extra platform with BOSS by itself, etc etc. All this stuff just takes time to test out though. Hard to find the time sometimes with all the other 'life' stuff we gotta deal with.



Iv'e been out for the last week or so, but finally started messing with mine again with VS measurements and whatnot and just posted a bit about it in Nalleh's thread. It may be of interest to you since your trying to run a similar setup as me with the BOSS, MAs and VNFs. Link HERE

Thanks for the link, I read through his thread in the last few weeks! Yeah I definitely love the midbass the nearfields bring and can’t replicate that with in riser drivers passed this low, but it does bridge the gap a bit. I honestly can barely remember my first setup in this room it’s changed so much over the last few years. I started with a Klipsch 5.1 with a PC12+ that I sold for 1/4 the retail price, lol. My room has evolved into an absolute monster of a system for TR, and I love it. I don’t think I’m going to change anything for a while; the more content I watch the happier I am with how it turned out. Will I become desensitized to the BOSS after a time, I don’t think so, not like previous theater additions anyway.

After building the DIY Atmos speakers and now the BOSS back to back in the last two months, this is my last project for a while, so I can relax and enjoy some family time I’ve neglected lately. I feel selfish spending time tinkering with my hobbies when the family is home, but I work opposite schedules of them, so it’s in short supply these days and have to make it count. I enjoy this hobby, but my boys bring me real joy.
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post #35 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 09:43 AM
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^^^ Yep I hear ya man, about the family and the BOSS. The BOSS is insanely good and I can tinker with stuff too much sometimes too when I should be spending time with the fam. I try to do it late at night when I do or when they are not here, but still it takes up time.

Awesome on your TR!! Yeah your system has come a long way huh!! You should be proud and just enjoy now since your so happy with it and found that magic spot

I'm almost to the point of just enjoying as well. The BOSS really is that good. There is a few more things I want to test out with it with the MAs and whatnot over the next week or so because I'm just that way LOL, but then, I'm just goona enjoy. Got tons of new movies I'm behind on and looking forward to it and using the system for what it actually for!!
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post #36 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
If you place the Crowsons under the BOSS platform, then you’re coupling that to the ground, although it might not be that noticeable, it’s still not floating the platform for maximum wobble.

Not planning on placing them under the BOSS. They will sit on the BOSS, under my recliners like they currently do.


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post #37 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 11:23 AM
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@Sekosche , thanks for the latest pics; now I understand the Crowsons/isolators.

You mentioned not liking the step-up to the chair. Similar problem for me; I don't have clearance under the seating so the platform will have to raise it up about 3.5" to accommodate the JBLs. My thought was to just extend the platform forward of the seating, exactly like you did, to provide a "step" up to the seat. Is that still an issue for you or does the step provide enough transition up to the seat? Thanks!
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post #38 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
@Sekosche , thanks for the latest pics; now I understand the Crowsons/isolators.



You mentioned not liking the step-up to the chair. Similar problem for me; I don't have clearance under the seating so the platform will have to raise it up about 3.5" to accommodate the JBLs. My thought was to just extend the platform forward of the seating, exactly like you did, to provide a "step" up to the seat. Is that still an issue for you or does the step provide enough transition up to the seat? Thanks!

It’ll take some getting used to not to trip over it. My wife isn’t a huge fan, but hopefully she’ll come around. I even asked her if she wanted me to carpet it, but she thought it’d look silly, which I told her I think my system is beyond worrying about things like that, even though it’s in a shared space...there’s no denying our family room is the home theater. Function over form for me. I’m lucky my seating made it fairly easier to add BOSS drivers around it with no clearance restrictions.

I’m loving the effects of how I have it setup now, so not planning on modifying it for a while; however, since both platforms are separate from each other, I could fairly easily try out the single riser and remove the couch isolator base, put the regular feet back on, and move the Crowsons below the BOSS. This would help a little with height, but the BOSS platform is still a good size and I’m not cutting it any smaller.

Good luck on your build!
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post #39 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 12:05 PM
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Quick question, where the JBL's shown in the pics of the first post bought at the $29 price on a special sale that Best Buy ran prior to the start of the build? Thanks in advance for any reply.
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post #40 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 03:11 PM
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Looks great man, it blends in well. I didn't pick up how far it was sticking out at first glance.
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post #41 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers

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Originally Posted by Surf'sUp View Post
Quick question, where the JBL's shown in the pics of the first post bought at the $29 price on a special sale that Best Buy ran prior to the start of the build? Thanks in advance for any reply.

Yes, luckily they happened to be on their super sale a week or two ago so I bought 4 to get the bass rolling on the BOSS build. Even at $50-75 each I’d say they’re still a great deal.

And yes, these are inexpensive mass manufactured drivers, but compared to buying one quality MA for $5-600, these JBLs at $29 are literally twenty times less! That’s crazy bang for the buck, and makes the BOSS, with almost any number of drivers you could fit in a platform, the TR king per dollar many times over.
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Last edited by Sekosche; 04-23-2019 at 05:24 PM.
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post #42 of 119 Old 04-23-2019, 05:40 PM
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The Best Buy price seems to go up and down. When I first looked they were back to full price and then a couple days later they were on sale, but now they are back to full price. Just keep watching the site and perhaps they go back to the sale price again.
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post #43 of 119 Old 04-24-2019, 09:24 AM
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Thumbs up So True

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Originally Posted by FriscoDTM View Post
The Best Buy price seems to go up and down. When I first looked they were back to full price and then a couple days later they were on sale, but now they are back to full price. Just keep watching the site and perhaps they go back to the sale price again.
You guys were so right! Yesterday I checked the website and they were full price. Also went to the local store another purpose and saw a couple there and they were full price. Today they are back at $29 so I picked up three. Now all I have to do is pick em up. Nice! Thanks to all for the heads-up on these.
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post #44 of 119 Old 04-24-2019, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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You guys were so right! Yesterday I checked the website and they were full price. Also went to the local store another purpose and saw a couple there and they were full price. Today they are back at $29 so I picked up three. Now all I have to do is pick em up. Nice! Thanks to all for the heads-up on these.

Nice! Looking forward to your impressions.

I honestly wonder how they can afford to offload so many of these for $29 all the time shipped to your door. I don’t really care as they’re awesome for this exact reason, but still. I can’t think of anything close to $29 that can provide such a unique addition to a home theater for this purpose.
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post #45 of 119 Old 04-25-2019, 08:42 PM
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Awsome build man

With the space you got under your couch, and you’ve seen what i had to work with, i would defenitely have gone for 6 drivers
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post #46 of 119 Old 04-25-2019, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Awsome build man



With the space you got under your couch, and you’ve seen what i had to work with, i would defenitely have gone for 6 drivers

Thanks!

Haha, I agree. In hind sight, had I known how great the BOSS was going to be in my system, and that I had plenty of room in those awesome dead zones for placement before I ordered everything, I would have also went with 6 drivers. But I really wanted to make sure it was worthwhile first, and it completely surpassed my best expectations. That said, I really don’t feel it’s lacking much in any way as the vertical movement is just crazy quick and incredibly violent now versus the Crowsons only. Perhaps I could get the whole couch to levitate some day.

The bad part is, I made all the driver holes dead center on the wood in each spot, so even if I want to add more to the current platform, they’d have to go under each seat and clearance is just maybe barely adequate....I could add two more, but can’t really wire up 5 properly on one amp channel. I swear I’m done for a while!

I could totally build a new platform and add 3 more drivers for only $150...no, I promised the wife I was done with HT projects for a while. Maybe for my next house I’ll build something really crazy.
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post #47 of 119 Old 04-25-2019, 09:20 PM
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I really dont think you would gain much with 3 more, just enjoy it!! In 2 years, the BOSS will become a mandatory addition to all theaters on AVS, it will be as common as a diy subwoofer.
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post #48 of 119 Old 04-26-2019, 02:40 PM
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@Sekosche have you been able to find the fs of your riser yet?

Lining up your riser fs with your speaker fs should = all the wins.

It's pretty easy to lower your sub fs. Add weight to the cone (careful to evenly distribute the weight).

Riser fs is a bit of a different ball game. I know a few people out there with the maths required to calculate it out.
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post #49 of 119 Old 04-26-2019, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
@Sekosche have you been able to find the fs of your riser yet?



Lining up your riser fs with your speaker fs should = all the wins.



It's pretty easy to lower your sub fs. Add weight to the cone (careful to evenly distribute the weight).



Riser fs is a bit of a different ball game. I know a few people out there with the maths required to calculate it out.

I haven’t tried, but I’d be curious to see where the resonant frequency is at. Sounds like a lot of maths! Loving the TR of the BOSS. New BOSS riser with soft isos makes everything awesome!
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post #50 of 119 Old 05-02-2019, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers

Update: the BOSS is still pounding out some crazy TR. I did some VibSensor measurements on a few movies the other day and am getting just ridiculous amount of energy from my LPF at 35Hz and well below 10Hz now.

The TR was so intense around 25-30Hz I turned down the peak watts even more below the standard 80rms recommendation in the BOSS thread. I might PEQ that band down a little and crank the drivers back up.

Here’s the most intense 30Hz TR I’ve ever encountered from War of the Worlds, after the pod emerges and start blasting people with the heat-ray; the feeling is so sharp and violent I thought my pants would almost be ripped to shreds. To anyone not familiar with VibSensor, anything around and above a PSD of 1e-01 is incredibly intense, and definitely not something you’d want for an entire movie...well, most people. I love TR, but the BOSS is a whole different animal. I’m still amazed what these drivers mounted on a sheet of plywood can do.

Timestamp in the title:


Another movie with incredible 25-30Hz bass energy is Blade Runner 2049, here’s just a small measurement near the beginning. The 27Hz TR is amazingly intense:
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Last edited by Sekosche; 05-02-2019 at 08:10 AM.
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post #51 of 119 Old 05-02-2019, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Update: the BOSS is still pounding out some crazy TR. I did some VibSensor measurements on a few movies the other day and am getting just ridiculous amount of energy from my LPF at 35Hz and well below 10Hz now.

The TR was so intense around 25-30Hz I turned down the peak watts even more below the standard 80rms recommendation in the BOSS thread. I might PEQ that band down a little and crank the drivers back up.

Here’s the most intense 30Hz TR I’ve ever encountered from War of the Worlds, after the pod emerges and start blasting people with the heat-ray; the feeling is so sharp and violent I thought my pants would almost be ripped to shreds. To anyone not familiar with VibSensor, anything around and above a PSD of 1e-01 is incredibly intense, and definitely not something you’d want for an entire movie...well, most people. I love TR, but the BOSS is a whole different animal. I’m still amazed what these drivers mounted on a sheet of plywood can do.
Wow....

This may top the infamous, "foundation cracking bass," comment...
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post #52 of 119 Old 05-14-2019, 01:41 PM
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Thinking about going the mini riser route. I have a couch that fits 3. Do you think 2 woofers would be underwhelming? Or should I go with 3?
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post #53 of 119 Old 05-14-2019, 03:59 PM
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Thinking about going the mini riser route. I have a couch that fits 3. Do you think 2 woofers would be underwhelming? Or should I go with 3?
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post #54 of 119 Old 05-14-2019, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Thinking about going the mini riser route. I have a couch that fits 3. Do you think 2 woofers would be underwhelming? Or should I go with 3?

I think 2 drivers would be fine and still provide a lot of TR; I just went with 3 to fit the empty spots in my couch better and to have one flank each seat. I was on the fence about adding more drivers, but I’m very content with my current setup. I have MA’s too though so that helps as well.

Good luck and get your BOSS on!

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post #55 of 119 Old 05-16-2019, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I was on the fence about adding more drivers, but I’m very content with my current setup. I have MA’s too though so that helps as well.

Good luck and get your BOSS on!

Well that escalated quickly, I’m building the 6 driver BOSS tomorrow.

After this I’m done...who am I kidding.

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post #56 of 119 Old 05-16-2019, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Well that escalated quickly, I’m building the 6 driver BOSS tomorrow.
If I read through the thread correctly, you reduced the output to the existing BOSS platform earlier.

What are you trying to gain by adding additional drivers? Just curious.
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post #57 of 119 Old 05-16-2019, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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If I read through the thread correctly, you reduced the output to the existing BOSS platform earlier.



What are you trying to gain by adding additional drivers? Just curious.

Sanity mostly. Lol, I really just need to redo it to add adequate ground clearance and shrink it some so it fits more cleanly under the couch. I reduced the headroom/excursion to prevent driver damage due to the minimal clearance I have now.

I’m really not looking for more output, but I have 6 drivers now so may as well build it, and if I gain some more TR, preferably<20Hz in the process, that’s just gravy. Going to recess the drivers all about a 1/2” to avoid needing to add spacers. I could save myself a ton of time and recess the current drivers, but then I’ll have three just collecting dust. Unfortunately, the way I centered the drivers holes I can’t just use the same platform.

Gearing up for tomorrow to make it a quicker build, wish me luck!
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post #58 of 119 Old 05-16-2019, 07:37 PM
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Take some pictures! Is the 6 drivers going to be in a platform for a 3 seater couch?

Edit: Nevermind, just scrolled up in the thread to re-read thr earlier posts. Whoops.

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Last edited by BryceDH; 05-16-2019 at 07:41 PM.
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post #59 of 119 Old 05-16-2019, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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BOSS Build with 3 JBL 12” drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryceDH View Post
Take some pictures! Is the 6 drivers going to be in a platform for a 3 seater couch?

Edit: Nevermind, just scrolled up in the thread to re-read thr earlier posts. Whoops.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Just a two seater.

I’ll post a few finished pics, will be pretty similar to the current platform with double the power and maybe 6” less depth, 86”x30”x1.5” or so with flush mounted drivers and a different finish.

You get your other two drivers in yet? I still can’t believe your TR with just two drivers! That’s why I don’t think I really “need” more...I have a TR problem and I can quit at any time.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
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post #60 of 119 Old 05-17-2019, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Just a two seater.

I’ll post a few finished pics, will be pretty similar to the current platform with double the power and maybe 6” less depth, 86”x30”x1.5” or so with flush mounted drivers and a different finish.

You get your other two drivers in yet? I still can’t believe your TR with just two drivers! That’s why I don’t think I really “need” more...I have a TR problem and I can quit at any time.
Tracking says I'll have them by Wednesday. I think the main reason the two are working well for me is that my couch is modular and the platform is for a single seat. The frame is also pretty rigid (my seat doesn't recline) and there isn't a ton of padding in the chair. I'm with you as far as probably not needing more, but I'm curious and already paid for 4 drivers anyway. It also doesn't help that the extra channel on my amp can power up to 8 of these no problem. Lol

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